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Defense or Shield/Absorb for the Jugg?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Guardian / Juggernaut
Defense or Shield/Absorb for the Jugg?

Draqy's Avatar


Draqy
01.30.2012 , 02:28 PM | #11
Some Rakata mods have surge rating etc on them so i have seen people who do not buy them because there columni does not. When you mastercraft relics implants purples etc its better to mod endurance in as it increases your tanking ability rather than def shield absorb.

dorkvid's Avatar


dorkvid
01.30.2012 , 02:30 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by AllanGand View Post
once you get into hardmode and nightmare operations, you will want defence, and then you'll want some more defence. It's by far the best stat for us, especially coupled with the defense bonus from retaliate.
Not true either. Defense has a HUGE diminishing returns on it, stacking too much is absolutely worthless. You need a balance between them
Rolfson, the Immortal Legacy of Vornskr

AllanGand's Avatar


AllanGand
01.30.2012 , 02:30 PM | #13
if you avoid 1 attack, it stacks up to having an extra 2k-3k health. High health and armor are damn near useless, and they're the same stats anyway.

And once you do bosses such as the fabricator, and the 2nd rancor in karaga's palace, you'll realize the importance of defense.


Quote: Originally Posted by dorkvid View Post
Not true either. Defense has a HUGE diminishing returns on it, stacking too much is absolutely worthless. You need a balance between them
that's for sure true, and i'm not saying you should try getting 50% defense just from your armor, but it should be any jugg's no. 1 priority when gearing up. Once you reach around 25% defense, you can start looking at balancing out shield and shield absorb

Draqy's Avatar


Draqy
01.30.2012 , 02:33 PM | #14
Pretty sure i already do them. Def rating and shield rating/absorb rating offer avoidance not mitigation and therefore are unreliable. For example compare armor to def rating would you rather take 20% less dmg each attack or avoid 20% of attacks but takes 100% on the ones you do take. No healers like spiky tanks.

dorkvid's Avatar


dorkvid
01.30.2012 , 02:38 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Draqy View Post
Pretty sure i already do them. Def rating and shield rating/absorb rating offer avoidance not mitigation and therefore are unreliable. For example compare armor to def rating would you rather take 20% less dmg each attack or avoid 20% of attacks but takes 100% on the ones you do take. No healers like spiky tanks.
No, but armor has a huge diminishing return and you can't stack armor past a certain point. If you're comparing armor to def rating, it's not taking 20% less damage each attack, it's taking 0 damage for 20% of attacks. Slightly different than what you're saying. Shield rating/absorb offers mitigation in the complete sense of the word, reducing incoming damage by a flat %. What are you even talking about?
Rolfson, the Immortal Legacy of Vornskr

dorkvid's Avatar


dorkvid
01.30.2012 , 02:39 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by AllanGand View Post
if you avoid 1 attack, it stacks up to having an extra 2k-3k health. High health and armor are damn near useless, and they're the same stats anyway.

And once you do bosses such as the fabricator, and the 2nd rancor in karaga's palace, you'll realize the importance of defense.




that's for sure true, and i'm not saying you should try getting 50% defense just from your armor, but it should be any jugg's no. 1 priority when gearing up. Once you reach around 25% defense, you can start looking at balancing out shield and shield absorb
Ehhh...I'd disagree again. As a MT/OT for our guild running nightmare content, I'm sitting at just over 23.7% defense. However, I have 38% shield absorb and 34% shield rating. The lost 1.3% defense for a gain of 16% absorb and 4% shield rating is absolutely worth it
Rolfson, the Immortal Legacy of Vornskr

Draqy's Avatar


Draqy
01.30.2012 , 02:40 PM | #17
Shield rating doesnt occur on every hit after the accuracy vs def rating roll to see if it hits there is a second roll a roll that will determine if the attack is a critical or shielded. Shield is not taken into account on every attack and therefore is avoidance not mitagation

dorkvid's Avatar


dorkvid
01.30.2012 , 02:45 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Draqy View Post
Shield rating doesnt occur on every hit after the accuracy vs def rating roll to see if it hits there is a second roll a roll that will determine if the attack is a critical or shielded. Shield is not taken into account on every attack and therefore is avoidance not mitagation
Erm, no. Avoidance is attacks AVOIDED. As in, dodge/parry. This is your defense rating. Mitigation is average damage reduction - it does not have to occur every single attack in order to be part of mitigation. With shield rating/absorb, you drop your average damage taken by shield rating * shield absorb. This, then, is mitigation.
Rolfson, the Immortal Legacy of Vornskr

Draqy's Avatar


Draqy
01.30.2012 , 03:08 PM | #19
I dont think you understand my argument at all where as i understand yours. Having shield rating def rating and absorb could still lead to you taking crit over and over and over again from a boss without avoiding or mitigating anything at all. Armor reduces all damage so lets classify it as hard mitigation. Hard mitigation is a more reliable stat which is important for any tank. Higher health pool increases your effective health where as those other ratings could have absolutely no effect at all because they are random. Priority of stats is:
armor
endurance(maybe switched with armor)
def rating
shield rating
absorb rating(have to have some absorb for shielding at about a 2:1 ratio

While you may take less damage over a boss fight stacking these its not about taking less damage its about being consistent so your healers do not have hectic moments and let you die or a dps die to heal you during a damage spike.

dorkvid's Avatar


dorkvid
01.30.2012 , 04:29 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Draqy View Post
I dont think you understand my argument at all where as i understand yours. Having shield rating def rating and absorb could still lead to you taking crit over and over and over again from a boss without avoiding or mitigating anything at all. Armor reduces all damage so lets classify it as hard mitigation. Hard mitigation is a more reliable stat which is important for any tank. Higher health pool increases your effective health where as those other ratings could have absolutely no effect at all because they are random. Priority of stats is:
armor
endurance(maybe switched with armor)
def rating
shield rating
absorb rating(have to have some absorb for shielding at about a 2:1 ratio

While you may take less damage over a boss fight stacking these its not about taking less damage its about being consistent so your healers do not have hectic moments and let you die or a dps die to heal you during a damage spike.
Look, instead of sitting here arguing about something pointless (like how armor comes naturally with gear, as does endurance) and telling you that you're wrong, just go to sithwarrior.com and look at the stuff done there.
Rolfson, the Immortal Legacy of Vornskr