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Same gender relationships clarifications?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Same gender relationships clarifications?

Tamaranis's Avatar


Tamaranis
02.10.2012 , 09:48 AM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by EvanSnowWolf View Post
I am not saying there should not be an alternative. I'm saying that I do not believe it stupid or offensive that heterosexuality is in something by default. Mario chases after Peach, that is not offensive or discimination. Ditto with a hundred other video games.
Come on, now. Are you really honestly not able to understand why a toggle is offensive?

First of all, let's be realistic about elements like FRC. People like that are often put forward as justification for a toggle, but these people are not the target audience, and a toggle won't do anything to appease them.

Bioware can either be inclusive or not. It's going to upset people either way, trying to hold the middle ground will just anger everyone one. A toggle will be offensive to many people but will not appease the elements in society who have made it their mission to maintain "purity."

How could it? They're not gamers, they don't play the game? They won't know any different whether or not a toggle is there.

Some people claim they'll be offended by having to deal with same sex content. Good thing for them they don't have to. The option is there, if they find same sex relationships unpleasant they can just go ahead and not engage in them.

The toggle doesn't add anything.

Would it be nice to have the option to turn off all sexual content and not have to deal with any of it? Maybe. I could see how some people might be uncomfortable with how strongly Jaxo comes on to the male trooper. I could also see how people would find the idea of a romance with Elara Dorne upsetting, given the imbalance in their relationship created by the military situation. I'm sure there are other examples.

Except Bioware decided these elements are in and you can't toggle them off. People who aren't comfortable with it just have to deal. No one's really asked for the ability to toggle it off that I'm aware of except in defending themselves from the accusation that toggleable SS relationships are discriminatory.

So anyway, for good or for ill Bioware has included all this sexual content with plenty of situations that might make plenty of people uncomfortable and your character will simply have to navigate it.

But suddenly now that same sex relationships are on the table we need a toggle. That's the critical threshold where this might all be too much for some people and they need to option to put it out of sight and out of mind?

You really don't understand why that's offensive?

EvanSnowWolf's Avatar


EvanSnowWolf
02.10.2012 , 09:49 AM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by Suaine View Post
Actually, it kind of is offensive if one considers heterosexuality a default. Not just does it marginalize LGBT persons, it's a faulty way of looking at the issue. There are many more brown-eyed people than blue-eyed in the world, but that does not make brown somehow the default eye color of humanity. Sometimes society makes things seem like they should be default and makes being different difficult - it does not mean that it is either right or true.
The problem with your analogy is that in both cases... eye color does not change the fact that eyes are fully function and see the same. They are not perceived as equal function, they ARE equal function.

I'm going to once again say at this point I am for SGRA's in game. I feel the need to say that again, because I KNOW someone is going to take that as ignorant/homophobic/bigoted/etc.

I can be perfectly tolerance and accepting of something without forgetting the fundamental science behind it. Therefore it isn't offensive if is in the fault in something. I mean, you can be offended if you WANT to... but that doesn't make it discrimination.
"But you know how it is, cows go moo, dogs go woof, and mmo players go the pvp is unbalanced." - Ben 'Yahtzee' Croshaw.

xXIzazelXx's Avatar


xXIzazelXx
02.10.2012 , 09:51 AM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by Zethlis View Post
WHERE IS KHEM VAL ON YOUR LIST? THIS IS PREJUDICE!

Lol jk.

I choose option 3.
You know. I do have to answer this and agree.
I'm avidly for the same sex flirt features in SWTOR. What confuses me
and seems to be missed by most is that your flirt choices are all human
based. Except for Vette, but then she's Twi'lek and there for fanboy cast
for just that "slave girl" stereotype reason.

Non human characters are not toggled for romance. Which makes no sense.
Why wouldn't Gault try and flirt with a female BH?

In the future I would hope that they include non human romance features as
well. That choice seems more prejudiced and out of place for Star Wars than
the same sex romance options.

Star Wars has always seemed to me to be a universe kind of free of our
Earthly taboos. Yes there is species descrimination in Star Wars, but we're
talking about a vast universe of thousands of worlds. I would imagine that
Twi'leks (as everyone else in the galaxy) find Hutts repulsive, and yet
Twi'lek females are always seen as slaves to them. Yet in the game I
see cross species relationships between NPCs all the time.

Just wondering if it was an oversight or deliberate.

Oh, and while we are talking about companions, can a dev please make it
possible to say no to accepting some companions. If you are a BH and have
Skadge, you will know what I mean. If you didn't want to put a blaster bolt
through his head when he forces his way on your ship, you deserved him lol

Just saying.

Shaynee's Avatar


Shaynee
02.10.2012 , 09:54 AM | #34
@Raiellyn If you disagree with the plot points of the game, the option is to not play it. We all have that option. But if you find the list you made so disagreeable in your fiction, why are you playing this game? Why expose yourself to something you disagree with?

I think we can all get along, but I think Bioware needs to handle this properly to avoid offending people. Homosexual is a category as much as heterosexual is. I still think the two toggles idea is the best one, but maybe they should label them 'Allow Heterosexual Relationships' and 'Allow Homosexual Relationships' and then both on would allow Bi. Would that be better?

Those that want to add same sex content need to understand that some people simply don't want same sex content. If I can respect your wishes to have it added, why can't you respect my wishes to not have to have it if I don't want it? If this content gets added, Bioware needs to be fair about it.

Raiellyn's Avatar


Raiellyn
02.10.2012 , 10:06 AM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by Shaynee View Post
@Raiellyn If you disagree with the plot points of the game, the option is to not play it. We all have that option. But if you find the list you made so disagreeable in your fiction, why are you playing this game? Why expose yourself to something you disagree with?
First, read the quote. Now read it again, please. With the inclusion of SGRA's, the exact same thing could be said to you.

To avoid drifting from the topic at-hand and into a debate of real life, I will stifle my protests beyond this.

Fine. Same-gender relationships are a touchy-subject. So, you can toggle them off.

But what about the Empire classes? They commonly deal with darker topics, such as the mentioned slavery, murder, and other mayhem. We should be able to toggle that too, so my children don't have to see it.

So that leaves Republic class. Oh, wait. You can still be dark-side there, too. Hm... I guess there should be a toggle for that as well.

And as for the last part of your post, there already IS a method of not having that content enter your game. You do not select it. At the absolute worst, you may have to turn down an NPC who casually flirts with you, just as the LGBT gamers already have to deal with. Demanding that there *must* be a way to toggle off that content entirely when you don't have that option for ANY other content (aside from the mature language filter, which affects the community more than the game) is not logical, in any sense of the word.

Shaynee's Avatar


Shaynee
02.10.2012 , 10:15 AM | #36
@Raiellyn If you don't want to play dark side, play republic. If you don't like PvP play on a PvE server. If you just don't like the content of the game, don't play the game. And if forced same sex content is added, yes, I certainly have the choice to not play.

My point is that by implementing a two toggle approach we all get what we want; no relationships, heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual. You play your way, I'll play mine. If they present choices so we can choose how relationships are implemented, we can all set it up to our own preferences. I don't see how forcing same sex relationships on me is fair, anymore than forcing opposite gender relationships on anyone is fair.

If handled properly, this can enhance your gameplay and not detract from mine. That'd be a win-win situation. To my way of thinking that is the best possible outcome.

Jenovan's Avatar


Jenovan
02.10.2012 , 10:15 AM | #37
Quote: Originally Posted by xXIzazelXx View Post
You know. I do have to answer this and agree. I'm avidly for the same sex flirt features in SWTOR. What confuses me and seems to be missed by most is that your flirt choices are all human based. Except for Vette, but then she's Twi'lek and there for fanboy cast for just that "slave girl" stereotype reason.

Non human characters are not toggled for romance. Which makes no sense. Why wouldn't Gault try and flirt with a female BH?

In the future I would hope that they include non human romance features as well. That choice seems more prejudiced and out of place for Star Wars than the same sex romance options.
Venturing off-topic...

There are a few other non-human romanceable companions in addition to Vette:
- Kaliyo
- Aric
- Nadia
- Ashara
- Vector, sort of... :P

I'd be curious about the [flirt]able NPCs, though. Most of them seem to be human, but I don't know if the ratio reflects the ratio of all human or alien NPCs in-game.
Ebon Hawk * The Thirteenth Legion * RP/Social/Casual
Kjara | Avidior | Mizret | Ysmena
Forging Fortune * Aviditas

Uluain's Avatar


Uluain
02.10.2012 , 10:19 AM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by Shaynee View Post
Those that want to add same sex content need to understand that some people simply don't want same sex content. If I can respect your wishes to have it added, why can't you respect my wishes to not have to have it if I don't want it? If this content gets added, Bioware needs to be fair about it.
You don't need a toggle not to see the content. You just need to choose either of the two conversational prompts not marked [Flirt].

That is the option already in game for those not wishing to explore opposite-sex content. No one has been suggesting a toggle to hide that. The only context in which hiding story content with a toggle is same-gender romance or flirts.

You are asking for an option to be intolerant. I don't think it is a good idea to cater to that.

Raiellyn's Avatar


Raiellyn
02.10.2012 , 10:21 AM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by Shaynee View Post
@Raiellyn If you don't want to play dark side, play republic. If you don't like PvP play on a PvE server. If you just don't like the content of the game, don't play the game. And if forced same sex content is added, yes, I certainly have the choice to not play.

My point is that by implementing a two toggle approach we all get what we want; no relationships, heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual. You play your way, I'll play mine. If they present choices so we can choose how relationships are implemented, we can all set it up to our own preferences. I don't see how forcing same sex relationships on me is fair, anymore than forcing opposite gender relationships on anyone is fair.

If handled properly, this can enhance your gameplay and not detract from mine. That'd be a win-win situation. To my way of thinking that is the best possible outcome.
First paragraph; If you don't want to play a same-gender romance, choose the other two options on the dialogue wheel. If that is not sufficient, then by all means, feel free to cancel your subscription to the game. And I don't mean that as a snide remark; if you truly have a problem with *anything* in the game, it is your right to not support them.

Second paragraph; This is where your phrasing caused a misunderstanding. You only mentioned having a toggle for the SGRA content. While I do not support the idea of the toggle being implemented at all, I can agree that having the options to filter through every part of the content (not just turning off the SGRA, or romance entirely.) is a nice compromise. Not one I like, but one I can accept.

Shaynee's Avatar


Shaynee
02.10.2012 , 10:33 AM | #40
@Raiellyn Actually, if you read any of my posts in this thread you'll see I advocate a two toggle approach. My original description of those two toggles could be taken as offensive, and for that I apologize, but the concept is consistent; the game needs to be configurable in a way to not offend anyone on the issue of sexuality (as far as other issues go, this is not the thread to discuss them).

Thank-you for your last post. I appreciate that you are willing to compromise. To my way of thinking what I am asking for is fair to everyone. I sincerely hope this feature is implemented in the way I described. Both myself and my family have been waiting a long time for this game, and I'd hate to cancel over this issue.