This was written from a sage point of view:

Now i get that being frozen in carbonite isnt the most pleasent of experiance but why are our charaters fleeing from vaylin?

At this point in time she would(to us) be nothing more then just an other sith lord......

For that mather why dont force users help lena rip open the door?

A knight/warrior can kinda be excueesed as the force isnt there area of experetise but my sage force push doors open on a regular bases.

For that mather we dont seem that effected by the posioning.

It is just in one cutsence we only tire out a bit once and we arent even that tired.

I mean we arent given any reason to believe we are outmatch.

Poor exictution not withstanding.

Despite everyone claiming vaylin might be even stronger then volkurion.

She doesnt do anything to even remotely prove she is anything more then just an other target.

Sure she "riped" a ractor appart but: size means nothing to the force.

Most jedi and sith are limeted by inmagination and willpower more then ability.(Something i can related to as most people i know have the inmagination of a pond compaire to my galaxie size fantasy)

I am trying to understand why our charaters would ever fear vaylin?

During the entire story there wasnt a single time i could find any reason to believe vaylin could beat me.

And my charater is nothing more then a very powerfull jedi.

Now i get we are fleeing prison.

But where is my option to get my behind handed to me by vaylin when she catch up to us?

Arcann won his first dual with us.

He has shown he can stand up to us.

But vaylin?

She does nothing my sage/sorceror hasnt already surpassed several levels ago.

She's extremely powerful and you are still weak from be carbonite poisoning. If you suggest to Lana that the two of you should be able to defeat Vaylin, then Lana says it's remarkable you can even stand.

They did a real poor job of showing that then.

My charater at most looked slightly tired.

It also doesnt explain why we shoud fear vaylin.

She does nothing the entire story.

Execpt kill her own people.

Claiming someone is extreemly powerfull doesnt make it true.

Nobody believe the sith inqisitor was powerfull.

And look how they ended up.

She's obviously much more powerful than noted Sith Lord like Lana just based on the door. And in that same chapter she rips a building apart and throws it at you.

I don't know if you clicked on the dialogue option about fighting Vaylin, but if you do, the Outlander has to struggle not to keel over from the pain. It seems pretty clear that Vaylin is much more dangerous than most people.

I think even the devs said Vaylin is possibly the most powerful character besides Valkorion in one of their livestreams.

She's obviously much more powerful than noted Sith Lord like Lana just based on the door. And in that same chapter she rips a building apart and throws it at you.

 

I don't know if you clicked on the dialogue option about fighting Vaylin, but if you do, the Outlander has to struggle not to keel over from the pain. It seems pretty clear that Vaylin is much more dangerous than most people.

 

I think even the devs said Vaylin is possibly the most powerful character besides Valkorion in one of their livestreams.

Of course, at the same time, my Consular has been seen doing such things before.

At that moment, coming out of carbonite, but Consular was never shown as weak when it comes to the use of the Force.

It's called adrenaline.

You might be in a weakened state from just being released from carbonite after five years (and still recovering from the poisonous effects), but when a psychotic Sith-child who your rescuer is afraid of is chasing after you in the heart of her own Empire, you're gonna be desperate to GET OUT. They also did show you staggering and Lana helping you keep moving, by the way.

Did you get to KOTET? When you get there you will see why you should fear her. I am telling you know if she was more mentally stable she would have been the third strongest force user in the SWTOR legends the third strongest.

She is an avatar of the force and even Valkorion has issues with it.

The feats there dwarf anything the consular did.

Did you get to KOTET? When you get there you will see why you should fear her. I am telling you know if she was more mentally stable she would have been the third strongest force user in the SWTOR legends the third strongest.

She is an avatar of the force and even Valkorion has issues with it.

The feats there dwarf anything the consular did.

I did get to KotET. I didn't say she wasn't powerful. What I said was, the Consular shows to do similar things and it gets downplayed if not forgotten.

I don't remember the Consular ever ripping an entire building apart to throw at another building the way Vaylin did. But even if they did, the carbonite poisoning means they probably couldn't have done so at the time.

Entire building? No.

Heavy metal security doors? Yes. Broken pieces of ship with ease? Yes. That's just in the first act.

Because she has some of the finest plot armor ever forged lol But really, I think that whole introductory mission after you're thawed from carbonite was really poorly done story-wise. You're told in a few cutscenes that your character is somehow very weakened but you tear through like 100 knights, syktroopers and a walker like tissue paper. If they wanted to enforce the "you can't fight her, you are weakened and visually impaired" they should have changed the gameplay for that mission. Your goal should have been to sneak out rather than bludgeon your way out. The fact that we had Lana rescue us by browbeating her way in rather than have Theron rescue us by sneaking in and sneaking and bluffing our way out didn't make any logical sense to me. You alert every guard, skytrooper, and even Arcann and Vaylin, your escape vehicle even gets blown up because your team is so obvious and careless. This was like the worst planned mission of all time :/

I do agree with the OP's point as well that Jedi consulars for one have been shown to be at least as strong in the force as Vaylin. For example the point where Lana tries to move that blast door with the force and can barely budge it but Vaylin blasts it off with no problem...well the Consular does the same thing to a significantly bigger and thicker blast door on Taris. http://i.imgur.com/555oDzd.png

I don't remember the Consular ever ripping an entire building apart to throw at another building the way Vaylin did. But even if they did, the carbonite poisoning means they probably couldn't have done so at the time.

Uh when did Vaylin "rip an entire building apart to throw at another building?" She rips chunks of the housing off one side of the sun generator (which destabilized it) and flings those if that's what you're referencing but that's a far cry from tearing apart and throwing an entire building.

Did the consular managed to crack the necks of an dozen force users at the same time? Did he?

The consular got force pushed once a couple meters by an child the emperor that weakling.

Did the consular managed to crack the necks of an dozen force users at the same time? Did he?

The consular got force pushed once a couple meters by an child the emperor that weakling.

A dozen force users that are in complete submission and don't fight back at all? Yeah, real impressive. Vaylin gets completely beat down by Senya who then lets her live and when her plot armor is gone we kill her easily. PS Vaylin gets force pushed several meters by Arcann who is nearly dead. You know someone who is actually impressive and terrifying? Vitiate/Valkorion. He ate an entire planet and we couldn't do anything about it. It doesn't make sense that we'd be able to beat him so many times.

Yes in mid air and you know landed on her feet unlike the consular who landed on his back. Oh and if you read the short story made by the devs you will see that she wanted to kill her mother with lightsaber skill not the force. Her mother said that if she wanted she could easily kill her with the force but she did not.

Also she beat all our companions, well a good chunk of them herself and they did fight back.

Did you get to KOTET? When you get there you will see why you should fear her. I am telling you know if she was more mentally stable she would have been the third strongest force user in the SWTOR legends the third strongest.

She is an avatar of the force and even Valkorion has issues with it.

The feats there dwarf anything the consular did.

Not really.

It took her 15 seconds to rip appart small metal walls.

Kneel before the dragon of zakuul because we cant have you beat our main bad girl.

Despite having done zero damage(shields for the win) and her constantly fleeing from us.

Honestly the entire storyline was awefull.

But i am not asking if she is powerfull.

I am asking why we shoud fear her.

She does nothing i havent seen jedi sage do before.

Jedi counciler blast open reforced 1 meter think door with a single force blast.

Rips off a megnaticly sealed escape pods door and trows in 2 meters away without breaking a sweat.

He defeated several jedi masters after just leaving typon.

Defeated sons of the emperor.

Honestly the jedi consular storyline seem hellbend on making jedi seem very easy mind control.

Did the consular managed to crack the necks of an dozen force users at the same time? Did he?

The consular got force pushed once a couple meters by an child the emperor that weakling.

The jedi consular is pretty is the definition of jedi(you can tell by the dark side choices still being very nice and humble)

He doesnt break necks.

That is more of a sith warrior fetish.

Jedi consulars are the least showy of all the force using classes.

And is still consider by many stronger(or atleast as strong) as a fully fed sith inqisitor(who needed force ghosts to reach there level)

Also getting forced pushed is the force users version of saying hello.

Yes in mid air and you know landed on her feet unlike the consular who landed on his back. Oh and if you read the short story made by the devs you will see that she wanted to kill her mother with lightsaber skill not the force. Her mother said that if she wanted she could easily kill her with the force but she did not.

 

Also she beat all our companions, well a good chunk of them herself and they did fight back.

Mid air meaning more time to correct her landing.

Being forced push when on the ground leaves alot of less time to correct your landing.

If i have to read a short story means they(once again) fail to show it ingame.

Also if that was the case why didnt she just push sanya away when she was a at her mercy.

Are you claiming her desire to beat her mother in lightsaber combat prevented her from defending herself from a possible killing blow?

Arcann is never talked about as being possible more powerfull the valkurion.

A guy who drained a freaking planet and cheated death more times then the sith inqisitor.

Vaylin is consider to be possible more powerfull then valkurion if it wasnt for the fact she was brainwashed.

And we are never show any evidence of this.

She could have had her charater moment by using the force to effortless pull down our ships during the voss mission.

She could have been shown how powerfull she was by having her effortly beat someone we know is powerfull.

But she doesnt.

Vulkurion one shots darth mar, drains planets, body surf on a regular basis and we beat him after he stole our body because of duex ex holocron.

Vaylin has shown us nothing that make her any more powerfull then the dark council members we regularly solo.

Arcann needed an entire army to do that.

Valyin sends her fleet and gets driven off at voss.

And dont get my started on voss.

The empire has the means to compleetly subjugate that planet within days and it wasnt even part of the republic so it woudnt violate the threaty of corusant to do so.

Yes the voss are execelt at predicting the future.

But the ability to see the future doesnt give you the ability to prevent it from happening.

(warhammer 40k does an execelt job of discribing how complicated prediciting the future is. Given how much change a single choice can make)

It doesnt mather if you can predict my every movement if you dont have the means to counter said movements.

And a single imperial fleet shoud have the man power and fire power to take a single planet with a single city.

The voss dont have the numbers to beat back any galatic invaders.

And sith are very very very very deadly combatens.

Vaylin is supposed to be powerful, but I would bet there's limits put on her due to the conditioning. Even after the Dragon of Zakuul aspect is removed, there's likely conditioning that hasn't been totally removed from her way of thinking.

Also, Vaylin being powerful in the force, does not make her a great tactician or even just good at war.

She's petty and an abused child lashing out at the world, upset that mommy didn't save her, when really, mommy never could save her. Senya was never going to beat Valkorian.

Also, isn't the holocron only used if you keep it and don't free Valk's father? I can't remember.

We are clearly TOLD over and over again that Vaylin is a super special snowflake that has this supposedly ultimate power but we aren't shown anything near that degree. I would expect some Starkiller level ridiculousity for how hyped up she is in the game. We as players should actually fear for our characters' safety rather than frustrated at her plot armor. Like you go through a fight with her, totally kicking her twerpy behind and being at full health and then you suddenly get a cutscene that goes "n-no you were actually losing and like hurt and dying and stuff because Vaylin is like totes powerful and special and awesome!" This is far from being a Vaylin specific issue, BioWare's storytelling has really gone downhill. If they want to show us that she's super strong:

1) Make her significantly more impressive. She should be able to do more than rip some metal pieces off a building or floor with the force, kill some of her own fanatically loyal guards that refuse to fight back against her, capture our support crew of mechanics and other non-fighters (backed up by her forces) or capture one lone companion who has already been overwhelmed (also backed up with her forces). None of that stuff would be out of the ordinary in the slightest if we had seen Darth Marr, Satele Shan, the force using player classes or any other advanced force user do it. Also don't have her easily beaten by Senya who hasn't shown herself to be any more impressive than the rest of our companions.

2) If we fight her, either make the entire battle a cutscene with no player input where we are overwhelmed and crushed by her power OR make the battle unwinnable-and no, I don't mean the battle stops when you get her to 10% health and you're at full health and she just magically has won in a cutscene. I mean make her attacks so powerful that you can't mitigate them for long, give her so much health that it is literally impossible for you to kill her before she kills you. None of that "I won but the cutscene says I lost because reasons."

2) If we fight her, either make the entire battle a cutscene with no player input where we are overwhelmed and crushed by her power OR make the battle unwinnable-and no, I don't mean the battle stops when you get her to 10% health and you're at full health and she just magically has won in a cutscene. I mean make her attacks so powerful that you can't mitigate them for long, give her so much health that it is literally impossible for you to kill her before she kills you. None of that "I won but the cutscene says I lost because reasons."

This. So much this.

Ever frelling fight in KotFE and KotET.

Arcann couldn't do jack to my Sentinel on Asylum - first fight with T7's help I tore through him like tissue paper until the cutscene separated us, then the solo fight I was still wiping the floor with him until the cutscene where Valkorion distracts us and we get stabbed.

Valkorion in the Odessan Wilds - at no stage did I think he was dangerous enough to actually take me until the cutscene.

Vision-Vaylin in the cave - a little dangerous but more annoying than anything..

Arcann's flagship - armed with the Bratslayer he was super easy until the gimmick with the shield, and even that bit wasn't hard, just annoying.

We are clearly TOLD over and over again that Vaylin is a super special snowflake that has this supposedly ultimate power but we aren't shown anything near that degree. I would expect some Starkiller level ridiculousity for how hyped up she is in the game. We as players should actually fear for our characters' safety rather than frustrated at her plot armor. Like you go through a fight with her, totally kicking her twerpy behind and being at full health and then you suddenly get a cutscene that goes "n-no you were actually losing and like hurt and dying and stuff because Vaylin is like totes powerful and special and awesome!" This is far from being a Vaylin specific issue, BioWare's storytelling has really gone downhill. If they want to show us that she's super strong:

 

1) Make her significantly more impressive. She should be able to do more than rip some metal pieces off a building or floor with the force, kill some of her own fanatically loyal guards that refuse to fight back against her, capture our support crew of mechanics and other non-fighters (backed up by her forces) or capture one lone companion who has already been overwhelmed (also backed up with her forces). None of that stuff would be out of the ordinary in the slightest if we had seen Darth Marr, Satele Shan, the force using player classes or any other advanced force user do it. Also don't have her easily beaten by Senya who hasn't shown herself to be any more impressive than the rest of our companions.

 

2) If we fight her, either make the entire battle a cutscene with no player input where we are overwhelmed and crushed by her power OR make the battle unwinnable-and no, I don't mean the battle stops when you get her to 10% health and you're at full health and she just magically has won in a cutscene. I mean make her attacks so powerful that you can't mitigate them for long, give her so much health that it is literally impossible for you to kill her before she kills you. None of that "I won but the cutscene says I lost because reasons."

I've been saying #2 forever! I hate every fight that has me lose by going to a cut scene.

If I have to lose, why not make the most awesome ever cut scene battle to end all cut scene battles (until the next unwinnable one of course) instead?! I feel cheated if I play the actual game and get made to lose in a cut scene.

If I fight and lose in an awesome cut scene of pure action movie awesomeness. Well then, I at least got an awesome action movie awesomeness cut scene

I agree with many of the points being raised by the OP and others. By the time my first Sith Warrior had started Kotfe, she had seen so much combat and beaten so many powerful enemies that it didn't make much sense to me that all of a sudden, the Emperor's Wrath is getting tossed around like a rag doll by these two Zakuulan brats. Standard Sith Lords/Jedi, ok, I can see how Vaylin and Arcann could beat them since they are sufficiently strong in the force, but the Wrath is a whole different ballgame.

My thought process the first time I went through Kotfe was "Why did I bother taking my Warrior through any of the previous stuff if these two cheeseheads can just toss her around whenever they feel like it?" Even Revan couldn't do that. Are these two really that much more powerful than Revan? It simply did not feel very believable seeing the Wrath getting dominated like that in Kotfe..

Disclaimer: If this post seems to be all over the place, forgive me. I have so much to say on this.

Star wars on a Budget. That is exactly what everything from RoTHC up to now is. They changed to single story for all classes because of budgetary reasons. They lost a million+ subscribers so the revenue is just not there anymore. Which means they should have just ended the game then and there because it's no longer story-driven, per se ( there is no way a smuggler can rule the galaxy and best the most powerful Sith in the galaxy -- not happening, not even Mandalore can beat a Smuggler or an Agent? Really?).

While the need to consolidate class stories into one was unavoidable, they could have made choices "matter" to the extent that if you chose options 1, 2 or 3, you will have three separate story-lines ( the story will significantly change for you based on your choices. For example, when you choose to accept Valkorian's Help, nothing significant happened throughout the story (whether you accept or not, Valkorian still attaches himself to your mind and help you anyways).

Vaylin was never stronger than the outlander ( if he's Sith or Jedi) priod to the Nathema arc. The Strongest were Valkorian, Imperius (apparently the Inquisitor is lightside, who knew) or Wrath or Battlemaster or Basen'thor, then Senya, then Arcann, then Vaylin. SO, Vaylin was the 5th Strongest Force user in Act 1, Scene 1 of Knight of the Fallen Empire. How do i justify this? Well, Vaylin was conditioned and her powers bound (somewhat) by Valkorian because he knew she couldn't control them. It was when she undid her conditioning on Nathema that she became the strongest.

I agree that they should have flushed out her powers during the cutscenes. At least we saw how powerful Arcann was.