Ok I know there has been a lot of QQ on this topic, and I'm ready for all the GS pilots to come out and flame me mercilessly.

But I'd like to present an analogy:

Let's say you're PvPing, and you're playing a Merc/Commando. You do lots of ranged damage. You see an enemy Jugg/Sent/Op/Assassin/etc. They see you. They come at you. The best you can do is unload on them before they get there, then maybe hit them with [whatever that short-range stun is called]. Of course a) that stun is barely longer range than they need to be in to attack you; b) every player in PvP has an inherent CC-breaker; and c) every melee class has some kind of counter to range, i.e. Force Leap, PT's pull shot, stealth, etc. Then maybe you pop jet boost, but my point is that generally both sides have a couple of gap-closing or gap-maintaining tools that essentially negate each other, depending on respective cooldowns/interrupts/team play etc.

Now let's say you're in a Gunship. You do lots of long range damage (in fact relatively much more than a Merc, compared to your opposition). You see a Scout/Striker/Bomber. They see you. They come at you. You pop them with your Ion railgun, and they're dead in the water. No shields, possibly slowed or not regenning energy, weapons and engine power drained. They die. Either to you or to another ship, before they can even get close to you. Unless that is they can somehow close 15 km without ever giving the Gunship LOS (not likely and would take a prohibitively long time, meanwhile the gunny is blasting away at other enemies).

Now don't get me wrong, I fly a scout and I've killed many gunships, but 98% of the time it is because that gunship either had no idea I was coming, or was already on the run from somebody else. And if the gunship has another gunship watching its back, which you see a lot of against veteran pilots...boom you go, even if you catch the first one by surprise.

Can you even imagine the QQ if Mercs or Sorcs had a max-range CC/slow that also half-killed the target in one shot, and no melee class had any--ANY--tools to counter it? There's no way the devs would even think of letting that situation stand.

And yes I realize that GS's have something of "tunnel vision" because they're always looking down their scope, but something tells me that the good ones keep an eye on their radar.....

I think you can't compare GS with the ground combat.

GS is more like a FPS or let's say TF2 and the Gunship is the sniper. On these games sniper are also dangerous but you can counter their range advantage by using cover. Cover is very spare in space and most mission targets are in the open so .. cover is of limited use and with a little thinking on side of the GunShip you can place yourself in a way that there is no cover available for approaching targets.

Also the fights between two opponent that "dogfight" takes much longer as in these games. So a sniper has tons of time to aim and shoot. In FPSs most encounter last only one or two seconds there your open so that a sniper can shoot you.

In GS it's nearly impossible to "sneak on" a Gunship that has some form of awareness. The radar will show him your approach and as you mentioned as soon as one other guy is covering him your dead. Also the aim of Gunships is very simple "bring cursor on red box click" and boom 1500 damage. On top of that they are slow but not made from thin tissue like in nearly every other game so they can mostly run, liking their wounds and return.

If i play gunships it mostly that way. The only thing killing me are other gunships or scouts, striker that could approach me because i got too blood thirsty (not checking the radar) and use heavily invested cluster missiles. (And i guess thats only because i have nearly no invest in my GunShip)

my only real issue with gunships, apart from barrel roll, the ion railgun debuffs need to scale with charge. i wouldn't mind seeing it's hull damage reduced to 1, but if you do that, it would also need to apply debuffs to drones/mines (I don't think it currently does).

aside from that, they're better not you can't lovetap cheese. still partially OP, but nowhere near the beasts of yore.

oh, and yes, you CAN sneak up on gunships. gunships tend to tunnel vision on one opponent as long as they're in range. if the gunny isn't targeting you and you approach them from outside their sensor focus zone (a cone out front), you can most often get to within 3km and just let rip.

OK first off why did you choose merc and not the obvious choice which is Sniper?

Secondly Merc gets stronger the closer you are to it, see: flame thrower and rocket punch. GS gets weaker, you can use rail gun at close range but not reliably. While mercs ranged abilitiys are still 100% effective.

also there is a gap closer inGSF available to every ship save the bomber. It's called Barrel roll.

OK first off why did you choose merc and not the obvious choice which is Sniper?

 

Secondly Merc gets stronger the closer you are to it, see: flame thrower and rocket punch. GS gets weaker, you can use rail gun at close range but not reliably. While mercs ranged abilitiys are still 100% effective.

 

also there is a gap closer inGSF available to every ship save the bomber. It's called Barrel roll.

And why should it be mandatory for every single ship to take barrel roll to be competitive? That's just broken in itself.

Also mercs are most definitely stronger farther out. RP and FT are not effective as ranged abilities. Also GS have BLC so the whole get close argument doesn't even work.

And why should it be mandatory for every single ship to take barrel roll to be competitive? That's just broken in itself.

There is another gap closer in GSf that isn't in ground game, available to everyone: a booster. 320% speed boost is too little for you?

it's like when Shadows have their force speed as gap closer. Barrel roll is an added bonus, like if Shadows also had a force leap. Having both would be great, but having one is good enough. At least for me it is.

And why should it be mandatory for every single ship to take barrel roll to be competitive? That's just broken in itself.

 

Also mercs are most definitely stronger farther out. RP and FT are not effective as ranged abilities. Also GS have BLC so the whole get close argument doesn't even work.

It's not mandatory just available. Mercs don't really even have a gap closer you know. I personally do not use Barrel roll, it's nearly useless in a dog fight yes it breaks missile lock but it doesn't get the guy off your tail. For me it's retro thrusters whenever possible, otherwise koriagan turn or rotation thrusters. My point is simply that if you do feel the need for a gap closer you do have the option.

As to merc dps my point is: unlike gunship who's ranged attack diminishes in effectiveness as range also diminishes. Merc ranged and any ground classes ranged attack do not diminish at all as range closes.

There is another gap closer in GSf that isn't in ground game, available to everyone: a booster. 320% speed boost is too little for you?

it's like when Shadows have their force speed as gap closer. Barrel roll is an added bonus, like if Shadows also had a force leap. Having both would be great, but having one is good enough. At least for me it is.

Ok one ground game analogies are completely irrelevant from GSF.

Boosters do no cover space as fast as a BR'ing ship does. Not only that but BR also consumes far less engine power for the distance it travels than boosting. BR allows a ship to get places both faster and have more engine power when they get there. And that is before you factor in the fact that BR grants +10% speed as its teir 3.

One ion shot does not drain all your engine power, or deactivate your precious barrel-roll.

If you have no engine power at all and get smacked with a fully upgraded ion, then grab a tissue, that is your malfunction, not the game designer's.

One ion shot does not drain all your engine power, or deactivate your precious barrel-roll.

 

If you have no engine power at all and get smacked with a fully upgraded ion, then grab a tissue, that is your malfunction, not the game designer's.

And that makes it all the more fun and balanced, right?

The horse ain't dead until something's done to kill it.

Not only do I beat the horse till dead...BUT I EAT THE HORSE TOO!

And that makes it all the more fun and balanced, right?

Yes.

I hope this isn't more of your sarcasm, because I have no problem dominating gunships in any ship.

The other day I was even hunting them with great success in a couple domination matches while flying a freakin' 2 tier bomber.

I really hope the devs use numbers to justify their changes rather than pandering to whiners for GSF.

QQing in PvP has lead to some pretty stupid changes in the past.

I would hate to see the same happen here.

One ion shot does not drain all your engine power, or deactivate your precious barrel-roll.

 

If you have no engine power at all and get smacked with a fully upgraded ion, then grab a tissue, that is your malfunction, not the game designer's.

Except every scout runs at 40-70% engine power in combat. If they have full engine power pool they are doing it wrong. And ion leaves them with no power and unable to regen so they can't roll and that's assuming they have BR, which not everyone does.

Yes.

I hope this isn't more of your sarcasm, because I have no problem dominating gunships in any ship.

It was sarcasm, because being hit by ion is never fun. The whole concept of sitting dead in space waiting for the slug to hit and kill you so you can respawn and do anything is not fun and I don't know why it made it past alpha.

OK first off why did you choose merc and not the obvious choice which is Sniper?

 

Secondly Merc gets stronger the closer you are to it, see: flame thrower and rocket punch. GS gets weaker, you can use rail gun at close range but not reliably. While mercs ranged abilitiys are still 100% effective.

 

also there is a gap closer inGSF available to every ship save the bomber. It's called Barrel roll.

Because I've played Merc a lot more than sniper. And no, Merc does not get stronger the closer you get. Flame thrower and Rocket punch are good on PTs but garbage on a merc.

Sorry, but barrel roll is not a truly effective gap closer because it is also the only real escape from lock on missiles. You can't just go spamming it as a gap closer, and besides, you shouldn't have one choice among 4 engine choices that is a "must have" if you want to be able to close a gap.

Yes.

 

 

I really hope the devs use numbers to justify their changes rather than pandering to whiners for GSF.

 

Pretty sure if we could see the numbers, Gunships average damage per match would completely blow away any other ship, and likely Kill/Assist/Death ratio as well.

Sure there are some amazing scout and striker pilots out there, but compare the whole population and gunnies just win, big.

Still waiting for a good argument as to why this kind of range/CC/gap-closing imbalance is cool in GSF but not in other PvP.

Except every scout runs at 40-70% engine power in combat. If they have full engine power pool they are doing it wrong. And ion leaves them with no power and unable to regen so they can't roll and that's assuming they have BR, which not everyone does.

^^ This. And it goes for strikers, too. Not only can you not use barrel roll (if you have it) you're flying at a snail's pace (upgraded ion gun slows you even further).

It was sarcasm, because being hit by ion is never fun. The whole concept of sitting dead in space waiting for the slug to hit and kill you so you can respawn and do anything is not fun and I don't know why it made it past alpha.

That's easy. It made it past alpha because these are the same devs that apparently think the CC-spam of ground pvp is fun.

Of course, I have no idea how anyone could think a game mechanic that prevents you from playing the game is a good idea....

That's easy. It made it past alpha because these are the same devs that apparently think the CC-spam of ground pvp is fun.

 

Of course, I have no idea how anyone could think a game mechanic that prevents you from playing the game is a good idea....

If anyone knows Zileas from Riot Games/League of Legends, he has basically launched a crusade against "anti-fun" and I'm pretty sure he'd have a field day with Gunships.

Ok I know there has been a lot of QQ on this topic, and I'm ready for all the GS pilots to come out and flame me mercilessly.

A lot of QQ from bellow average players with little analytical ability. So nice of you to join in. (more on that later)

But I'd like to present an analogy:

 

Let's say you're PvPing, and you're playing a Merc/Commando. You do lots of ranged damage. You see an enemy Jugg/Sent/Op/Assassin/etc. They see you. They come at you. The best you can do is unload on them before they get there, then maybe hit them with [whatever that short-range stun is called]. Of course a) that stun is barely longer range than they need to be in to attack you; b) every player in PvP has an inherent CC-breaker; and c) every melee class has some kind of counter to range, i.e. Force Leap, PT's pull shot, stealth, etc. Then maybe you pop jet boost, but my point is that generally both sides have a couple of gap-closing or gap-maintaining tools that essentially negate each other, depending on respective cooldowns/interrupts/team play etc.

Sorry to bring to your attention, but you lack analytical ability. You can't even see that GSF is different from ground PvP. One is basically a FPS and the other one is not. How can you even try to compare them? Why don't you compare it to an RTS then?

Now let's say you're in a Gunship. You do lots of long range damage (in fact relatively much more than a Merc, compared to your opposition). You see a Scout/Striker/Bomber. They see you. They come at you. You pop them with your Ion railgun, and they're dead in the water. No shields, possibly slowed or not regenning energy, weapons and engine power drained. They die. Either to you or to another ship, before they can even get close to you. Unless that is they can somehow close 15 km without ever giving the Gunship LOS (not likely and would take a prohibitively long time, meanwhile the gunny is blasting away at other enemies).

If you see a gunship that sees you and you charge at them head on - you're brain dead and deserve to be reduced to space dust. And please don't try to disagree with this, save your public image (what's left of it anyway).

If you didn't know - the range of a gunship is 15 km. Get 15+ km distance from that gunship and wait until they switch the target. After that - you can engage them (again - don't be brain dead and charge at them straight on).

Now don't get me wrong, I fly a scout and I've killed many gunships, but 98% of the time it is because that gunship either had no idea I was coming, or was already on the run from somebody else. And if the gunship has another gunship watching its back, which you see a lot of against veteran pilots...boom you go, even if you catch the first one by surprise.

So... if I understood correctly you can kill gunships when you sneak up on them... do you see gunships QQing about that? You've done your due diligence and were victorious. When they do their due diligence and get you - you come to forums to QQ about how unfair that was. Something doesn't add up in here, don't you think?

And again you've got no analytical abilities, because you are crying about being killed in 2 vs 1 situation. If you know there are 2 gunships and you attack them on your own - it's your problem. You didn't do your due diligence to get someone else to get on that second gunship. Also you're crying about playing against veteran pilots... sorry to break it to you - this game has a major component called skill. If you or your team lacks skill when compared to your opponents and instead of trying to get better you come to QQ here you will remain as you are now (gunship food)

Can you even imagine the QQ if Mercs or Sorcs had a max-range CC/slow that also half-killed the target in one shot, and no melee class had any--ANY--tools to counter it? There's no way the devs would even think of letting that situation stand.

So what you're trying to say here is that gunships don't have a counter and and the fact that you kill gunships by sneaking up on them was probably a lie, since you're trying to tell us here that gunships don't have a counter. Can you get your story straight?

And yes I realize that GS's have something of "tunnel vision" because they're always looking down their scope, but something tells me that the good ones keep an eye on their radar.....

Brilliant deduction... gunships aren't the only ships with a radar, tab tab-targeting, ability to see target of a target and situational awareness.

If you didn't know - there are many different ways you can build your scout or strike. There aren't that many variations for a bomber and there are no variations for a gunship. If you're going to complain about gunships being played a certain way - try to comprehend that developers did not give us much for alternatives.

If you choose to build your scout or strike to fight against other scouts or strikes - it was your choice, therefore you should not be complaining about that. If you want to fight against gunships - build your ship to be more effective against gunships, spend your time looking and hunting down gunships. But again, for a person who can't analyze - that is not obvious. Choose your role and do what you're supposed to do in that role. Dentists don't do heart surgeries.

I hope I was able to open up your eyes to the fact that your problem with gunships is you and you alone.

Ok, I hate to bash the OP further but this really is a glaring case of L2P.

I fly blackbolt, and only blackbolt. My blackbolt is built specifically for one purpose and one purpose only, killing gunships. Here is a link to the build i'm running: http://dulfy.net/2013/11/16/swtor-galactic-starfighter/?link=dGEAAAANBAMAAxcC9AL0AtAD9AHQAeAB4AHgAuA=

The 100% foolproof procedure for killing an ISOLATED gunship

1) Approach from behind and above using your boosters/barrel roll, stay out of 15km range. You damping will prevent you from even showing on their scopes if you do this right. Under 15km range damping stops working, so stay away from other ships.

2) Approach to within 3km, power weapons, open fire and start locking a sab probe. If the GS rolls before your lock finishes, skip to step 4. If not continue to 3.

3) Hold the lock until you are <1Km from the target, release. At this range the hit is instant and unless you overshoot the mark you just won.

4) Count to 2, then barrel roll after the GS. You should arrive back within 3km of the mark. Lock a sab probe and return to step 3).

There is not a SINGLE gunship pilot i've seen that can get away from me, not a one. The only time they escape is if someone else comes and saves them and that is as it should be. So quit QQing and L2Blackbolt.

There is not a SINGLE gunship pilot i've seen that can get away from me, not a one. The only time they escape is if someone else comes and saves them and that is as it should be. So quit QQing and L2Blackbolt.

Not that I'm joining OP's pity party of tears, but I will point out that I run double missile break on my gunships, and as such will simply never be sab probed without an EMP to stop barrel roll.

Not that I'm joining OP's pity party of tears, but I will point out that I run double missile break on my gunships, and as such will simply never be sab probed without an EMP to stop barrel roll.

Whats the second missile break that gunships have access to? I don't think i've ever seen someone with more than one.

Edit: Ah ok distortion field, that makes for a rather flimsy gunship though. Better hope you can barrel roll fast because my blasters alone are gonna rip you a new one in the opener.