For some reason people think healing is supposed to be hard in this game and always have the excuse 'but it is hard'. It's getting to a point where even a bad healer is pretty hard to kill let alone a good one that's properly supported. I really can't imagine even a healer would support this, because this thing goes both ways and when both sides have even halfway decent healers you get games where nobody ever died and those games tend to last forever and is rather boring. I had a game of Huttball where we grabbed the ball 6 times from middle versus twice from the other team. And guess what the final score was: 6-2. It's pretty funny that after 2-2 both teams realized the ball carrier was never going to die so whenever someone grabbed the ball the other team just head back to mid, and the attacking team only has the ball carrier moving forward so there's 15 people in middle while the ball carrier leisurely strolls to goal for the last 4 goals we scored, because both teams know if we sent anyone after the ball carrier it's just a waste of time.

Maybe because I mainly play a Combat Sentinel and use Transcendance only in PvP, I find no problem sticking to any healers, nor does any of my teammates for that matter. I usually team up with my Scrapper Scoundrel friend in WZ. We mark healers with icons, and just focus the hell out of them, and they drop like flies. Even with multiple healers and tanks on the other team, and with no healer on my team. We have no problem dropping healers, we just do hard switch focus. This is just me and my friend, not a full premade.

Their playing badly doesn't mean balance. They're clearly not effectively using taunts, immoblizes, CC, etc to stop you from double-teaming someone, and they may not even be paying attention to the fact that you are doing so. You only get 1 CC break. I've killed plenty of healers on plenty of classes, someone playing badly or getting ganked is NOT an example of mathematical balance.

 

On my Sentinel I constantly run around butchering people 1v2, the fact that they play badly doesn't mean this is an example of Sentinel being the most powerful class ever. Too many people see emprical data of players playing badly and assume it means things are a-okay. Facts are facts, healing output FAR outstrips damage output by an unreasonable margin. Again, examples of someone else playing badly doesn't mean healing is balanced when it mathematically is not.

1. mathematically

 

You've used the phrase mathematically quite a bit in your response, which suggested you know the math. Please relate to all of us the formulas you're using because I am quite skeptical you are using math, but instead, a large amount of conjecture. You conject many statements to support your idea but it just doesn't hold water.

 

I'm not saying you're crazy, I just need more evidence to support your hypothesis, you need to explain what sort of math you're using here, because everything that I do on a regular basis while playing the game suggests otherwise. I'm revamping my guide to make it up to date and current with recent new pathces and new pvp system so if you can give me a reasonable argument to support your formulas, I will dedicate an entire chapter to your thesis.

 

The sort of evidence I want to see that supports your argument is much like the following:

 

Critical Chance - Changed in 2.0

Base Crit%: 5%

Crit Rating Contribution: 30% * (1 - (1- (0.01/0.3))^(Rating/55/0.9))

Primary (& Secondary where appropriate) Stat Contribution: 20% * (1 - (1- (0.01/0.2))^(Rating/55/5.5))

 

Surge - Changed in 2.0

Base Surge%: 50%

Surge Rating: 30% * (1 - (1- (0.01/0.3))^(Rating/55/0.22))

 

Accuracy - Changed in 2.0

Base Main Hand Basic Accuracy%: 90%

Base Off Hand Basic Accuracy%: 57%

Base Special & Force Main Hand Accuracy%: 100%

Base Special Off Hand Accuracy%: 67%

Accuracy Rating: 30% * (1 - (1- (0.01/0.3))^(Rating/55/1.2))

 

Defense - Changed in 2.0

Base Defense%: 5%

Defense Rating: 30% * (1 - (1- (0.01/0.3))^(Rating/55/1.2))

 

Absorb - Changed in 2.0

Base Defense%: 20%

Defense Rating: 50% * (1 - (1- (0.01/0.5))^(Rating/55/0.65))

 

Shield - Changed in 2.0

Shield Rating: 50%*(1 - (1 - (0.01/0.3))^(Rating/55/0.78))

 

Alacrity - Changed in 2.0

Alacrity Rating: 30%*(1 - (1 - (0.01/0.3))^(Rating/55/1.25))

 

Bonus Damage - Not changed in 2.0

Primary (& Secondary where appropriate) Stat Contribution: 0.20 * Rating

Power Stat Contribution: 0.23 * Rating

 

Bonus Healing - Not changed in 2.0

Primary (& Secondary where appropriate) Stat Contribution: 0.14 * Rating

Power Stat Contribution: 0.17 * Rating

 

Skill-Creep Graph

 

Understanding Exponential Formulas

Many of the formulas used in SWTOR provide diminishing marginal returns, which means each incremental point provides less value than the previous point invested. This is popularly known as diminishing returns or DR.

 

To start though every one of these has a base value, which is clearly listed on your character sheet. I have also listed these below:

Crit % = 0.05 or 5%

Surge % = 0.5 or 50%

Basic Main Hand Accuracy % = 0.9 or 90%

Basic Off Hand Accuracy % = 0.57 or 57%

Special & Force/Tech Main Hand Accuracy % = 1.0 or 100%

Special & Force/Tech Main Hand Accuracy % = 0.67 or 67%

Defense = 0.05 or 5%

Shield = 0.05 or 5% *

Absorb = 0.2 or 20% *

 

*Technically, the Shield & Absorb percents are only available when you equip a shield.

 

In addition to the base amount there is a variable amount based on the particular rating of the stat. This variable amount is specifically a hard cap or asymptote that is then multiplied by a coefficient. By design these coefficients are less than 1, which is why we can never reach the hard cap. Given this, I will now refer to these as asymptotes. These coefficients are reduced via ever decreasing exponents. Now in 2.0, there is an added mechanism to further decrease these exponents, which makes it even harder to hit the stats you want.

 

The formulas are broadly:

 

Base % + Asymptote % * Coefficient

 

Critical chance is impacted by Primary (& possibly Secondary) Stat as well as Crit Rating so it has an additional Asymptote * Coffefient element.

 

The actual coefficient equation is this:

 

Coefficient Equation

 

For more detailed information on the math behind the mechanic, check out posts like the following (from which I borrowed the above info from)

 

SW:TOR Mechanics, 2.0 Formula Mechanics

Edited May 15, 2013 by Lunez

Facts are facts, healing output FAR outstrips damage output by an unreasonable margin. Again, examples of someone else playing badly doesn't mean healing is balanced when it mathematically is not.

 

Ok we talk math then, since you are into it. In every lost game I had, I found that my team's total damage, protection, and healing all added together is less than the opposing team's total damage, protecton, and healing all added together. And when I won, I found that my team's total summation points is greater than the lost team.

 

What does this tell me? Winning team always outperforms the losing team, with healing or not.

The talk about math reminds me of the attempts to analyze basketball when you have the final score, which is a 100% indiicator of which team was better over any other factor. You can try to break down the math, but you alrady have leaderboard numbers and the result of the WZ. Invariably you'll see the best healer comfortably outheal the best DPS if you play enough games. Even if you're trying to pad damage, if you can pad 2 million damage, then an equally good healer can heal 2.5 million in the same game. Sometimes you'll even see this from both sides (team A's healer outperformed team B's DPS and vice versa). The DPS are not capable of simply 'doing more damage', yet the healers often are capable of healing even more. From a raw number point of view, HPS simply exceeds DPS by an incredible margin. A lot of people are talking these fantasy scenario where a top healer healed for 2000 HPS while a comparable DPS did 1000 DPS and yet you can somehow 'keep that guy occupied' when you do half the DPS of what he can comfortably heal.

 

There are a lot of games I know where I'm in no postion to threaten the healer but you have to do it because if you ignore him it's going to be even worse. Most healers are still bad enough that you can eventually kill them but it's hard to kill even 3 bad healers healing each other. Again I really have no idea what the motivation to hide this stuff is, because even if you're a heal heavy group you should have noticed that even PUGs are running 3 healers now and 20+ minute marathon matches are becoming the norm, and that sucks for everyone.

Reduce guard to 25% and add diminishing returns to cross healing. Edited May 15, 2013 by Raansu

The sort of evidence I want to see that supports your argument is much like the following:

How bout no? Scoreboards say what needs to be said, mostly, except for excluding overhealing and including aoe inflated dps. Even WITH those factors, healing is consistently higher across the board than dps.

 

The only time damage numbers gets in range to rival is with a lot of aoe inflation from long-*** battles with high healing on both sides. Even then, the best damage rarely can even touch the higher healers.

 

I notice how you conveniently tried to focus on something as a distraction rather than my calling you out on that crap about group comps. Because, really, how often would 8 people together in a serious premade only have 2 healers or heavily-healing hybrids? You dodged that and tried to make some unreasonably complex (and absurd) demand as a distraction.

 

If screencapping wasn't broken for me for this and WOW, I'd gladly just screencap every PVP match I had for the next 2 months at low and high levels alike and show what we already know: healing FAR outstrips damage in PVP. I'd even take special care to note when I encountered a premade and highlight the guilded players to demonstrate that said premade is carrying itself with overpowered healing as a crutch. Even if I could, it's pointless for me to do so, you would argue it doesn't matter for some inane reason. Furthermore, it's additionally pointless since it is common knowledge among anyone who PVPs in this game.

The people complaining here are:

 

1. Ignorant
   
2. Bad DPS players
   

 

Now let me elaborate. There is only one healing class that cannot be shut out completely. That is the Operative. If you're complaining about heals being powerful, you are:

 

1. Fighting an imbalanced situation, 2 (healer + tank) versus 1 (you)
   
2. Have crappy team-work (multiple DPS focusing the healer instead of keeping the healer busy with 1, and killing the tank with the rest)
   
3. Really bad at playing their class (Smashtards who don't know about free force scream and a filler rotation)
   

 

Sorcerer healers have kiting abilities, but you only need to interrupt innervate, and the rest of their healing abilities will cost them dearly. Innervate is the only force-efficient heal. The moment you force them to frantically use Dark Heal you've won because they'll be dry on force within 30 seconds. Their kiting abilities can be mitigated by slows, and roots. They have only one 4-second stun, and a useless 8-second soft-CC which is not in their interest to cast if you have your breaker available.

 

Commando healers can be interrupted, rooted, and have no kiting ability beside a knock-back and electronet.

 

The operative healer has instant heals that can be used on the run. While they aren't much, they put out better numbers under focus fire/pressure than any other class (simply because they can't be interrupted). Kolto-Cloud is your enemy, its a 10 meter AOE heal near the scoundrel/operative. This can be used while kiting, which they can do effectively with an evasion buff, flash-bang, a kick to the balls, and stealth.

 

The trick with operative healers is to push them away from the fight, that way they cant use Kolto Cloud in conjunction with their Kolto Probes.

 

 

 

Are all healers overpowered? No. They can heal 1 persons damage. Under pressure two of the three healing classes cannot effectively heal the group. So as long as you have 1 DPS keeping them busy you have free-reigns on the rest of their team (supposing the rest of your team is not filled with terribad DPS'ers).

 

The only healing class that give's the impression of overpoweredness is the operative/scoundrel healer. This is arguable whether or not it is overtuned. However, I must admit that a good Operative/Scoundrel healer requires two people to shut out effectively:

 

1. One needs to force them to pop their battle stealth, and flash bang
   
2. The other needs to be a Juggernaught/Assassin/Powertech who can push/pull the Operative away from their team.
   

Edited May 15, 2013 by Yeochins

Time to chime in, although the topic is pretty much answered.

 

1) Healing is NOT overpowered

2) Winning teams often consist of pre-mades (this is true)

3) Winning teams are not lop-sided (they have well balanced mechanics)

4) Losing teams are often not balanced

. 4a) If your output (dps) cannot outperform the enemy healers, then you're lacking qualified dps

. 4b) If your input (healing) cannot outperform your enemy output, then you're lacking qualified healing

5) Do not let rule #4 discourage you. The answers are very quite clear as to what you need to do next:

. 5a) You (or your teammates) need better gear, AND / OR

. 5b) You (or your teammates) need to re-evaluate the balance of your team, AND / OR

. 5c) You are merely being outperformed by a superior opponent. You must increase your learning curve.

 

THis pretty much nails everything on the head. Trust me when I say right now, things are incredibly balanced, with the sole exception being the learning curve of your oponents. If you are being outperformed, you need to ask yourself what are they doing that is outperforming you. Many people use gaming mice and gaming keyboards.

 

I personally use a razor naga mouse, I have 12 thumb buttons, each with their own macro'ed set of rotations or actions. My healing, dps, tanking, etc--- will always outperform those without a gaming mouse, with the exception of those players who are just flat out better than me, and there are indeed, many who are better than me.

 

I hope this response helps you. Please do not blame a class, a skill, or a particular action for the performance of your team. If your team is broken, thiink about ways to fix it. Be a contender, strive for greatness. You can do it, I have faith in you.

I

This 100000000% correct

healing FAR outstrips damage in PVP.

What does this mean exactly? Do you mean teams healers are outperforming their own teams damage?

 

As a total, the only way healing can be more than enemy damage is if a healer is healing environmental damage (falls, firepit burns, etc) or if they're harming themselves. Generally speaking, total damage almost always outstrips total healing by quite a bit (even in games with no deaths) since some forms of "healing" aren't counted (WZ medpacs for a start).

 

Take this scoreboard as an example. Massive healing from the winning side. Almost 8m in heals. Crazy stuff. But the damage they were healing had to come from somewhere - and sure enough, the enemy damage is over 9m. Damage outstripping healing by a significant margin. But yes, the winning sides healers did do more healing than their team did damage. Is that what you meant?

The people complaining here are:

1.Ignorant

2.Bad DPS players

The usual troll response. Even if the followup is well-written, it's factually wrong. Raw numbers don't lie. Healing output consistently beats Damage output by LARGE MARGINS, even when healing us understated and damage is overstated, meaning the actual margin is even larger. I don't know how someone can legitimately sit here and post otherwise.

 

Sorcerer healers have kiting abilities, but you only need to interrupt innervate, and the rest of their healing abilities will cost them dearly. Innervate is the only force-efficient heal.

The problem with interrupting Innervate is that it is going to get 1 or more ticks off, the longer the channel goes before the interrupt lands (especially with latency). Dark Infusion is plenty efficient and large of a cast. And you can do nothing about their bubble or HOT, both of which are cost efficient AND instant cast. They can also pretty easily Force Slow you and run, or Whirlwind + Electrocute to create a gap... and you cannot CC break BOTH, which they can cast twice as often as your CC break to boot.

 

Commando healers can be interrupted, rooted, and have no kiting ability beside a knock-back and electronet.

I'm going to generally agree that Commando/Merc seems reasonable. They have enough hard-cast abilities that players are reasonably able to combat them with coordination and good decision making. They're very durable, but they're nowhere near as egregious as Sorcs and Operatives.

 

The trick with operative healers is to push them away from the fight, that way they cant use Kolto Cloud in conjunction with their Kolto Probes.

Translation: You cannot fight them effectively, period.

Even someone who so adamantly refuses to acknowledge the mathematically overpoweredness of heals.... has no choice in a fairly reasonable analysis but to say you can't do jack to lock down an Operative or Scoundrel. They can just keep kiting you while Kolto Probing up their entire team and Surgical Probing like mad off the Tactical Advantage procs. You can ONLY hinder their max-level talent, which is completely ridiculous.

 

Humorously, for starting off bad, I find your post fairly reasonable even if I disagree entirely with your conclusion... even you have a hard time justifying the current status of Operative/Scoundrel, especially the simple fact that they need so few hard casts.

A team full of healers and bad DPS will still lose.

Not true. Heals and damage are balanced. I had games where the opposing team has 3 healers and 1 tank and 4 DPS, and my team has 7 DPS and 1 tank, and we completely obliterated the opposing team because our DPS were superb.

 

If you lose a game to healers that means the DPS on your team was badly lacking.

 

Contrary to popular belief, playing a good DPS is just as hard as playing a good tank or a good healer. Carnage Marauder is the best healer killing spec, yet how often do you see Carnage in WZs? And how often you see a good Carnage in WZs?

 

Part of playing a good DPS is to learn how to focus fire, but most people don't do it. Heals are not OP, just that DPS need to learn to play better.

 

The whole focus fire is another support for lazy PvE -ers who want to PvP, but can't move and hit in the same time.

What does this mean exactly? Do you mean teams healers are outperforming their own teams damage?

 

He means the total HPS an individual can heal outstrips the DPS that an individual person can do. Even if it was balanced, which I don't think it is, it's boring as hell to have people queuing 4 healers to each side of a match and not a good experience. Multiple people needing to coordinate to take one person down is asking a lot for a game that has a system in place to give you gear in case you're too dumb to pick up free recruit gear. If people can't even get gear from a vendor that is free, how do you expect them to focus fire?

 

How anyone, even healers, can enjoy 1 healer for every 1 dps types of matches is beyond me. You may as well be derping around against a training dummy.

Edited May 15, 2013 by dcgregorya

... You can try to break down the math, but you alrady have leaderboard numbers and the result of the WZ. Invariably you'll see the best healer comfortably outheal the best DPS if you play enough games.

 

do over heals get counted in the scoreboard? E.g. if you at max-100 and I heal you for 5000 health, do I get +100 added to my scoreboard heals or 5000? If it is the former, then I can't see how heals (in aggregate) could ever exceed damage.

 

Also (assuming overheals don't count on the scoreboard) every time a player is killed then, by definition, more damage has been done than healing.

 

TANGENT: if I push you off the bridge in voidstar, do I get damage stats for killing your? How about if I kill you by stunning you in the fire trap of huttball (or acid pool)?

I

This 100000000% correct

 

She says "trust me" type things but doesn't know how to back up her version of reality, which, let me assure you, is distorted and completely wrong. There have always been people that have championed the cause of OP healing - many argued that pre 1.2 games were more fun back when healing was almost as OP as it is now. But those were a small percentage even amongst those that didn't leave the game (and many many pvpers did).

 

What Majin said was 100% correct: healing numbers represent a much smaller fraction of the healing numbers actually produced than damage numbers do. An aoe hot heal that hits 4 ppl where 2 are slightly injured might produce a "healing total" of 4000 where, if all 4 were seriously injured, the same cast might do 20k heals. The healing produced is very dependent on damage done and there's a lot more overhealing (that doesn't show up on the boards) than there is over-damage. It's very common for a healer to pump his target with several extra casts after he's at full. And they often hit people with hots before they've started taking damage; the only reason their numbers aren't much higher is because dpsers aren't doing anything, not because they're getting killed or cc'd or otherwise stopped. If there was more damage, there wouldn't be more dead people on the healer's team, there would be higher healing numbers often without any extra button presses or resource management challenges.

 

Healing, also, cannot be mitigated (except by a couple minor abilities like Crippling Throw). Guards, taunts, bubbles - these do not stop or reduce healing numbers in any way. Armor and defense abilities and cds do not slow down healing. For these reason hps -should- be much less than any dps because the only way to counter it is to cc or burst down the caster (whereas -any- dps can be fully mitigated for awhile with the aforementioned abilities -on top- of ccs and/or bursting him down).

 

"Healers can be focused" is just about the dumbest argument on the boards. Of course they can be focused, but why should it take 2+ characters to kill any one? What happens when there are 4 of those unkillable characters that require focus fire to kill and also 4 dps that can also maybe guard/taunt/cc? While 8 of your team's characters are killing 4 of theirs (maybe - healers get more powerful exponentially when x-healing), guess what's happening in the rest of your fight? It's 4 of them vs 0 on the other door or pylon. If I said "smashers are fine - you just need to focus them" in one of the many "smash is op" troll threads out there, guess how many people would seriously accept that argument? 1v1 I don't think any one class should automatically be invincible - it should be about the two player's skill and gear (in a perfect game). Some classes are better suited to 1v1 but there should never be a situation where one character is all but immune to all but one or two class/spec combos (which require a dramatic gear/skill advantage to work).

 

Some classes can mostly shut down a healer, if they chase that healer and do nothing else. They sortof cancel each other out, but really the healer can almost always outlast a dps in that situation. If he throws in a few instant or dot attacks occasionally then most dps will lose after a very boring several minutes. But the healer controls where he runs to - all he has to do is lead the dps to a place where the dps is outnumbered or otherwise away away from the objectives and again, advantage healer.

 

The only real argument healers have is "well being dps is more fun" - I don't disagree with that but that shouldn't mean that healers get more power because their fun factor is more limited (and also, healers shouldn't be given more power "just because there are more dps players in most groups").

Edited May 16, 2013 by Savej

Time to chime in, although the topic is pretty much answered.

 

...

5c) You are merely being outperformed by a superior opponent.

...

 

NOT POSSIBLE. Your entire argument has been invalidate by this idiotic statement. We are all from Lake Wobegon.

He means the total HPS an individual can heal outstrips the DPS that an individual person can do. Even if it was balanced, which I don't think it is, it's boring as hell to have people queuing 4 healers to each side of a match and not a good experience. Multiple people needing to coordinate to take one person down is asking a lot for a game that has a system in place to give you gear in case you're too dumb to pick up free recruit gear. If people can't even get gear from a vendor that is free, how do you expect them to focus fire?

 

How anyone, even healers, can enjoy 1 healer for every 1 dps types of matches is beyond me. You may as well be derping around against a training dummy.

 

I have had games in Alderaan where both sides agree to stop doing anything that could cause carpel tunnel (i.e. movement of any kind) and everyone just stand still and battle it out in middle, and still nobody died. It's actually very gracious for the other side to agree to such a thing in a game they already lost (or won) because at least we don't have to pretend we're trying to kill them at that point and the guys who got tired of it can just go AFK somewhere near the node.

do over heals get counted in the scoreboard? E.g. if you at max-100 and I heal you for 5000 health, do I get +100 added to my scoreboard heals or 5000? If it is the former, then I can't see how heals (in aggregate) could ever exceed damage.

 

Also (assuming overheals don't count on the scoreboard) every time a player is killed then, by definition, more damage has been done than healing.

 

TANGENT: if I push you off the bridge in voidstar, do I get damage stats for killing your? How about if I kill you by stunning you in the fire trap of huttball (or acid pool)?

 

Environmental hazards do not count as kills so if you push someone off a bridge, you don't get a kill. I don't think they even get a death.

 

Overheals do not count as heals. What people mean by 'heal outpaces damage' is say in a game you dominated the opponent and won easily, your top DPS might do 1 million damage. But, if there is even one good healer on the other side, you'll see he usually heal greater than 1 million. Now you can say this shows focus fire works and blah blah blah, but what if there's more than one of those guy around? Even in a lopsided rout, he still outheal the DPS done by your best DPS. If he cloned himself 3 times, his 3 clones are surely more than capable of healing the DPS done by your lesser DPS. Further, healing combined leads to even more healing. If you can heal 1 million and I can heal 1 million and we team up, both of us can potentialy heal more than 1 million because our heals will keep each other alive so we can heal even more. Given the non factor of resource management, a healer's HPS is usually only limited by dying, so you put 2 guys who can heal 1 million together, they can probably heal 1.5 million a piece now that neither of them would ever be in danger of dying compared to the scenario when they're alone.

 

Most of these high heal games, if you look at the resource bar of the healers, it's clear they have plenty in the tank. In fact the only reason they couldn't heal more was because there was no more incoming DPS to be healed. On the other hand, there's no way DPS have more in the tank. If you did a million damage with 0 death it's reasonable to say this is the extent of your DPS potential.

 

In the games where my team have single digit total deaths (or even 0), our healers are always healing this very comfortably and can easily do at least twice the healing if needed. The only reason they didn't was that the enemy ran out of DPS (usually because they died) for them to heal.

The current HPS versus DPS looks like this:

 

Top healer > top DPS

Average healer >> average DPS

bad healer >>>> bad DPS

 

In fact, the top healers are not the stuff you really have to worry about unless you're playing rated. They're rarely encountered and you can usually hope one of your top DPS can almost cancel them out. The problem is that when you got a facerolling healer on the other side that can heal for 600K when your equivalent facerolling DPS does 300K. Note that these are two players of the same base skill. It's because healing beats DPS very comfortably at the lower end that healing is overpowered in PUGs, as a bad healer can usually keep up with the DPS of 2 bad DPS. Note that one top healer has no chance of keeping up with the DPS of two top DPS. He will definitely get destroyed if he has to fight 1on2 against an enemy of his calibur. As noted Commando is the only class where a bad healer can't excel, which is why you don't see very many of them. Operatives are the worst case as a bad Op that's only spamming instant heals will still easily outheal the DPS of a bad DPS. Sorcerers are getting close to there.

She says "trust me" type things but doesn't know how to back up her version of reality, which, let me assure you, is distorted and completely wrong. There have always been people that have championed the cause of OP healing - many argued that pre 1.2 games were more fun back when healing was almost as OP as it is now.

 

i stopped reading after that last sentence. you want to know why? because you never played pre 1.2. you want to know how i know this? 1.2 healing was 10 times stronger than it is now. All sages had to do was stand in their puddle and they could outheal 4+ people hitting them. commando? pop their shield and they could tank an entire team hitting them. only scoundrels were crap for pvp.

 

now time to continue reading your post so i can get some more good laughs

i stopped reading after that last sentence. you want to know why? because you never played pre 1.2. you want to know how i know this? 1.2 healing was 10 times stronger than it is now. All sages had to do was stand in their puddle and they could outheal 4+ people hitting them. commando? pop their shield and they could tank an entire team hitting them. only scoundrels were crap for pvp.

 

now time to continue reading your post so i can get some more good laughs

 

Um, 1.2 is a different kind of overpowered healing. Back then, there was no extra fast Salvation so you can interrupt that. Healers did not have the escapes they have now. Perhaps their heals did way too much but it was actually possible to lock one down. Right now the healers might heal for less on a relative scale, but they can get their healing off much easier. The most common casted heal I see from an Op is diagnostic scan these days, which highlights how absurd the whole situation is.

 

Commando healer could always tank half of the team with Energy Shield on. The class is designed to be tanky. Energy Shield has a long CD, and once that is out you can at least mitigate a significant amount of their healing, as their good heals have to be physically cast instead of just instant cast or at least near instant cast (the 1s Savation or Healing Trance where if you didn't interrupt on first tick you most likely wasted an interrupt).

i stopped reading after that last sentence. you want to know why? because you never played pre 1.2. you want to know how i know this? 1.2 healing was 10 times stronger than it is now. All sages had to do was stand in their puddle and they could outheal 4+ people hitting them. commando? pop their shield and they could tank an entire team hitting them. only scoundrels were crap for pvp.

 

now time to continue reading your post so i can get some more good laughs

 

Been playing since day 1. Healers were op pre 1.2. You want a list of people saying it wasn't? Same people defending now. "The game was more tactical", they said, "1.2 ruined a balanced game" , they said (one prominent blogger made a bigger name for himself saying these things and many agreed). I have been in way more damage/heal fests with very low death counts since 2.0 than I was in pre 1.2.

 

You can check my posting history - sort by "last posting date" in Ascending order. I also posted as Waywardone when this account got a security key attached to it.

Edited May 16, 2013 by Savej

Been playing since day 1. Healers were op pre 1.2. You want a list of people saying it wasn't? Same people defending now. "The game was more tactical", they said, "1.2 ruined a balanced game" , they said (one prominent blogger made a bigger name for himself saying these things and many agreed). I have been in way more damage/heal fests with very low death counts since 2.0 than I was in pre 1.2.

 

You can check my posting history - sort by "last posting date" in Ascending order. I also posted as Waywardone when this account got a security key attached to it.

 

Pre 1.2 what made healing OP was sages double dipping with that heal glitch. Aside from that heals were fine pre 1.2. Even with the glitch you could easily lock them down (especially watchmen sentinels) which is 100% the way it should be. Heals now take no real skill at all. Healers can sit there and face tank now and not even worry about it.

Healers have completely dominated PVP since ~1.2 or 1.3 (not so much Commando/Merc).

 

Any PVP is a damn nightmare right now. Premades stack heavy healers and win by virtue of healing being completely overpowered, causing a lot of misplaced complaining about premades. Healing outstrips damage by a MINIMUM of 2:1, often 3:1. This is just a simple fact. The occssional high damage numbers are almost exclusively AOE inflation and people being ignored in vain attempts to kill nearby healers.

 

This completely ruins all Warzones, except Huttball where positioning and high ground control are a bigger factor than straight confrontations, usually.

 

Civil War and Novare - Get ANY minor advantage and auto-win. Once the healer-heavy team establishes a 2-cap, winning becomes impossible for the other team. There is literally no way, barring the healer team simply not watching the turret, for the other team to turn the game around. Everything dies so slowly such that, even if you COULD win the engagement... respawning healers prevent any chance of doing so.

 

Voidstar - Turtle the first doors with your unkillable team. Again, as long as the door is not simply left empty, there is no way for the attacking team to down the door.

 

Hypergates - With the trend in play, as long as your pylon isn't sniped, the healing team will win. They can easily get more kills and orbs due to dominating victories in midfield. There is again literally no way to turn the match around unless they just leave their pylon empty.

 

The PVP of this game used to be fun... USED TO BE. I love this game, and the warzones. But, with patch after patch of healers being completely unbeatably dominant, I'm having a hard time finding the motivation to play or keep a sub active.

 

It's like they want to ruin every enjoyable aspect of the game systematically just to make sure it dies off completely and generates no more revenue.

 

You instantly lose all credibility when you suggest that healers have dominated PVP since 1.2. Pre 1.2, yes, but 1.2 itself hurt healers a great deal. Since then, and certainly before 1.6, healers were nowhere near the dominant force in PVP. That said, it was balanced then with a few issues, and it is still balanced now.