I earned my gear...I had to grind tons of HM FP's for BH COMMS. I'm sick and tired of healing PVP geared tanks and DPS. I don't want a challenge, I want my BH COMMS. Take your PVP gear...and stick it in your locker.

PS. I PVP and love it. I am working on a full "Elite War Hero" set. When I PVP...I stick my PVE gear in my locker.

Archer: Cry "Havoc!" and let slip the hogs of war.

Lana: Dogs of wars.

Archer: Whatever farm animal of war, Lana. Shut up.

OH PLEASE !

I'm tired of hearing folks complaining about EVERYTHING.

-If I join a WZ with a full optimized DG/Hazmat set, I hear them "GO USE THE RECRUIT GERA NOOB !!!".

-If I join a FP with a full optimized EWH set, I hear some "GET SOME PVE GEAR, NOON !".

And for the noob whiner : with the exception of 5 free tionese peices, how do I get PVE gear IF I DON'T JOIN ANY HM FP ?

On my first char, I got my PVP set before my Columi set. On my last char, I got my BH/Campign set BEFORE earning a single piece in PVP. Deal with it and stop spamming the forums about your nonsense.

Recruit MK-2 is better in all aspects than Tionese gear. Better 2-piece set bonus, better stats, etc.

War Hero is on par with Columni, with some pieces being better than their Rakata coutnerparts.

It's after you hit the WH plateau, that you need to ditch the PvP gear completely for PvE gear.

While I tend to agree with the OP some, I believe it is more about the person at the KB. Skill definately can overcome under geared toons at times and the same can be said about good gear can overcome bad players at times. But I do have to say that when someone shows up for an op or HM FP in PVP gear it kinda says "I'm to lazy to grind the correct gear, I expect you to carry me".

I don't have a problem with the people who at least have WH or EWH because those are on par with some columi and Rakata gear. What I do have a problem with is the bung-hole tank in recruit/WH mixed gear who endurance stacked augments that thinks he would do better at tanking than an experienced tank in BH/DG with proper dmg. mitigation.

As an end-game healer and tank I can tell you HP are over rated. Just cuz you have 20k HP does't mean you are worth a crap. I would rather have a player with 18k HP in PVP gear who knows how to play over a moron in Rakata/black hole.

But I do have to say that when someone shows up for an op or HM FP in PVP gear it kinda says "I'm to lazy to grind the correct gear, I expect you to carry me".

How do you get your Columi ? By doing HM FP. Consequences : you cannot have a single Columi piece BEFORE doing a single HM FP/Operation. Do you realize this single fact ?

Guys, when we managed to get our first level 50, one year ago, we were able to pass some HM FP without Columi. Stop whining like babies.

PS as a high-end tank, I can tell you that I laugh in the faces of the shadows with less than 25K HP (BH/Campaign set).

Recruit MK-2 is better in all aspects than Tionese gear. Better 2-piece set bonus, better stats, etc.

 

War Hero is on par with Columni, with some pieces being better than their Rakata coutnerparts.

 

It's after you hit the WH plateau, that you need to ditch the PvP gear completely for PvE gear.

Recruit sets don't have a set bonus. Also, Tionese is still better than Recruit for PvE. Less stats overall, but when you don't count the amount of expertise, the Tionese will be better. How you want to be geared if only thing you have are the free recruit set and the 99 tionese commendations: Use Recruit Earpiece, Implants, Wrists and Belt. Battlemaster Relics from the recruit-set. And the rest will be Tionese (it could be that you can't afford the whole set with the 99 comms, so fill out with recruit accordingly.)

???

Do people really expect me to put on the free tionese set if I'm in full WH? That's total BS. I've ran all the HM FPs and the SM Ops totally fine in WH. I was almost full WH when I hit 50 and and only did PvP until I was full WH because I was too scared to be called some stupid noob if I showed up in tionese with no HM FP experience. After I did some FPs and won some unassembled things I took a look at the columi gear. Almost all of the pieces were worse than my WH set. I only put on the boots and the belt, but replaced them soon enough with EWH/BH.

How is it 'lazy' not to earn your gear if you're doing HM FPs in WH? I've spend a lot of time getting facerolled in the warzones. And the reward for HM FPs is Columi gear. Recruit is better than Tionese. WH is almost better than Columi. I don't really get your problem. If you're having a hard time healing people with Recruit/WH in HM FPs, you're doing something wrong. And you should have problems healing someone with Tionese/Columi.

How do you get your Columi ? By doing HM FP. Consequences : you cannot have a single Columi piece BEFORE doing a single HM FP/Operation. Do you realize this single fact ?

 

Guys, when we managed to get our first level 50, one year ago, we were able to pass some HM FP without Columi. Stop whining like babies.

 

PS as a high-end tank, I can tell you that I laugh in the faces of the shadows with less than 25K HP (BH/Campaign set).

Read my WHOLE post, rather than taking something out of context genius.

Bottom line... It is more about Player skill than the gear but THERE ARE the people that think just cuz they have PVP gear they are capable of doing all end game PVE content. Is tionese gear better than WH PVP gear... No. Is Some PVP gear better than some PVE gear...yes.

PVP and PVE gear are designed for their respective roles so when someone shows up with the other type of gear it can be a little frustrating to the other members of the team. Is it something to fret over? Usually not. I tend to reserve judgement until I see if they can pull their weight or not. But we have all seen the players show up in the wrong gear that just don't cut it and think it the groups responsibility to carry them. But it does and will continue to happen so there is no use in crying over spilt milk.

I earned my gear...I had to grind tons of HM FP's for BH COMMS. I'm sick and tired of healing PVP geared tanks and DPS. I don't want a challenge, I want my BH COMMS. Take your PVP gear...and stick it in your locker.

.

I've ran tons of HM FP's with people in pvp gear.

If you know what you're doing, this will be a non-issue,and you won't have a problem keeping them alive.

Stop healing and respec to DPS.

You're clearly not much of a healer if someone in pvp gear bothers you this much when war hero is MORE than adequate for sm ops and every hmfp. Or, if you have any trouble healing a HMFP at all in the black hole gear you spent all the time and effort getting.

... PVP and PVE gear are designed for their respective roles so when someone shows up with the other type of gear it can be a little frustrating to the other members of the team. ...

Frustrating? Seriously?

When that EWH PvP player shows up in your HMFP, you're frustrated because he's not wearing Tionese instead?

Is this some purely philosophical point? It's certainly not a practical one.

Well I'm okay with PvP gear as long as it's overkill:

BM gear in SM FE - more than enough

WH gear in HM Foundry - more than enough

EWH gear in HM EV - more than enough.

It's stuff like Recruit in Lost Island that annoys me. I have no problem healing that group if they know what they're doing, but if they can do it in Recruit then they've already done it 3+ times and are just undergearing it for the challenge.

I earned my gear...I had to grind tons of HM FP's for BH COMMS. I'm sick and tired of healing PVP geared tanks and DPS. I don't want a challenge, I want my BH COMMS. Take your PVP gear...and stick it in your locker.

Wow. Just wow. On my scoundrel I have an Elite War Hero main hand and a Columi main hand. Which would you prefer I use?

By the way, lol at you "earning" you gear by running HM FPs for BH comms. As if that system was anything but a way to give people something to grind for so they can outgear content. There is way too little content in this game that gets done at progression-level gearing.

I earned my gear...I had to grind tons of HM FP's for BH COMMS.

You don't earn BH gear by grinding something that can be done in Tionese.

You EARN it by actually having it drop from places like HM EC.

Running the Group Finder every day is easymode and getting comms for 10 minutes of playtime, which means you will probably be one of the worst players ever in full BH gear to run HM EC.

I am a firm believer in the skill > gear argument. Generally any healer whether specced in Full Dreadguard or Tionese, or WH/Recruit shouldn't have any problem with healing a similar specced tank in Tier 1 HM FPs.

Lost Island will obviously be a challenge, plus some of the latter Operations.

Rather than complain about the gear see how they do in the first couple of fights as most of the flashpoints generally have a tough (by the flashpoint standard) fight at the beginning of the flashpoint. Here you will see how well they perform.

Usually the only problems I have ever had when PVPers queue for a HM FP is that they don't know the fights as well as a PVEer but a little patience goes a long way....

As I am a PVE healer who occasionally PVPs I cannot comment too much on queing for PVP in PVE gear (I do it myself sometimes, although I get away with it as I do have a 820+ bonus healing). I would never queue for PVP as a tank or dps without at least some expertise as there is no way I would feel I was pulling my weight.

My 2 cents.....

Frustrating? Seriously?

 

When that EWH PvP player shows up in your HMFP, you're frustrated because he's not wearing Tionese instead?

 

Is this some purely philosophical point? It's certainly not a practical one.

/palm forehead. Doesn't anyone read a WHOLE post before they make ignorant posts? Hey genius, try going back and reading all of it this time.

Here you go I'll make it easy for you:

Bottom line... It is more about Player skill than the gear but THERE ARE the people that think just cuz they have PVP gear they are capable of doing all end game PVE content. Is tionese gear better than WH PVP gear... No. Is Some PVP gear better than some PVE gear...yes.

PVP and PVE gear are designed for their respective roles so when someone shows up with the other type of gear it can be a little frustrating to the other members of the team. Is it something to fret over? Usually not. I tend to reserve judgement until I see if they can pull their weight or not. But we have all seen the players show up in the wrong gear that just don't cut it and think it the groups responsibility to carry them. But it does and will continue to happen so there is no use in crying over spilt milk.

Alllllllrighty then. Let's play English professor!

PVP and PVE gear are designed for their respective roles so when someone shows up with the other type of gear it can be a little frustrating to the other members of the team

So the first part of this sentence is called a "clause"

PVP and PVE gear are designed for their respective roles

So you're saying that PvP gear is design for PvP. Yup. You're also saying that PvE gear is design for PvE. Sounds good!

so

"So" is a conjunction that means, "And for this reason; therefore." Example sentence: "it hurt, so I went to see a specialist"

The word "so" is pointing to the second clause.

when someone shows up with the other type of gear it can be a little frustrating to the other members of the team

Therefore, this sentence could be restated as:

"When someone in PvE gear shows up in PvP, or someone in PvP gear shows up PvE, it is frustrating, because the gear wasn't designed for that role."

Woot! Almost there ...

An example of this would be someone showing up for a HMFP in EWH gear! Yayy. And because it wasn't designed for that role, it would be frustrating.

Whew!

For bonus points, this example is called a "Reductio ad absurdum", which is used to demonstrate that a statement is false by showing that a false, untenable, or absurd result follows from its acceptance.

Of course, I chose specifically to highlight that one sentence out of your post, as it is that exact level of elitism that I find abhorrent. If anyone cares about gear gating, look at the HP, Armor Rating, Primary Damage and Bonus Healing. It does't matter how much expertise there is on it if the other stats are adequate enough to do the job.

To insist otherwise on purely philosophical grounds "it isn't designed for that" is completely impractical.

You also say,

THERE ARE the people that think just cuz they have PVP gear they are capable of doing all end game PVE content

That may be true. Oddly enough, I've never encountered that personally. in the several hundred pugs I've been in, those who showed up in PvP gear ware either a) actually capable of doing PvE content, b) better at doing PvE content that the others in the pug, or c) willing to take advice to get better.

Edit: Of course, I'm not going to convince you to change your mind about anything. But sparring with you has been fun.

Edit Edit: Oh, and the rest of your post I agreed with. But that one sentence just set me off ...

I've aggregated some numbers for you guys and I can give some answers on when PvP gear can be used in lieu of full PvE gear.

Using a DPS marauder, I compiled the following builds PvE and PvP builds, using stock modifications and with a small emphasis on Strength and Power when given the option (e.g. in implants and relics):

Tionese

Columi

Rakata

Black Hole MK-1

Campaign

Dread Guard

Recruit MK-2

War Hero

Elite War Hero

Tionese/MK2 Hybrid (for fresh 50s with 99x Tionese Commendations and free MK-2 gear)

Alternatively, you can read the combined stats of all the builds through this spreadsheet that I crudely made.

With the numbers side by side, we can make some reasonable hypotheses:

1. Full Recruit MK-2 players can complete most Tier 1 HM flashpoints and Tier 1 SM operations (as DPS). The overall base damage between full Tionese and Full Recruit MK-2 are pretty close. The Tionese build will be slightly better because the relics are on-use, which will give short periods of additional DPS. A Tionese/Recruit hybrid will output considerably more damage than a person in full Tionese, but will still be slightly below a full Columi player.

2. Full War Hero players can complete all flashpoints and all Tier 1 operations on any difficulty, EC SM and TFB SM (as DPS). War Hero players can actually out-DPS Rakata players. If the Rakata player used the on-proc relics whenever it was available, the DPS difference may not be that significant.

3. You should not bring War Hero gear to EC HM or TFB HM (as DPS). While the evidence suggests that you should be able meet the DPS requirements for these operations, other factors such as your health will start to reduce your overall survivability in most boss fights, which typically require players to take damage no matter how good you are. The uselessness of expertise in PvE content are highlighted significantly in these modes and only gets worse as you progress through the operation.

4. PvP gear has no place in EC NiM. Don't even try.

I have not compiled numbers for tanks and healers but the results should be roughly similar. I only did DPS because that is the majority of most players.

Remember, gear is not the end-all factor to determining a player's ability to complete PvE content. If

The post refers to my likes and dislikes. I will not heal a PVP geared tank or DPS. I don't ask them to leave the group, nor do I instigate a vote to kick. I tell them "I don't heal PVP geared tanks and DPS". I then quit the group. I have 2 healers and 3 DPS ( all campaign and better). When I leave 1 group...I re log and rinse and repeat. As for tionese geared players...they tend to try harder and wipe less. For all the healers who will heal the geared impaired...God bless you.

Archer: Cry "Havoc!" and let slip the hogs of war.

Lana: Dogs of wars.

Archer: Whatever farm animal of war, Lana. Shut up.

The post refers to my likes and dislikes. I will not heal a PVP geared tank or DPS. I don't ask them to leave the group, nor do I instigate a vote to kick. I tell them "I don't heal PVP geared tanks and DPS". I then quit the group. I have 2 healers and 3 DPS ( all campaign and better). When I leave 1 group...I re log and rinse and repeat. As for tionese geared players...they tend to try harder and wipe less. For all the healers who will heal the geared impaired...God bless you.

It's certainly your prerogative to do so. If you feel that it's the principle that no player should bring PvP gear to PvE content then by all means. However, as someone who has healed just about all content and after having researched the viability of PvP gear in PvE environments, I will obviously still choose the most competent player whenever possible but I will not shoo away a person just because he is wearing PvP gear that roughly matches the gear required for the content. If you claim that you don't want a challenge then, gear wise, bringing a War Hero player is significantly better than a Tionese player on all counts including Health and overall damage.

There is too much emphasis on gear in this game. Its unfortunate, but understandable. Gear is something you can see upfront whereas player skill can only be judged ex-post. That said, the gear requirements are quite low in this game. Everything upto EC and TFB SM can be done in recruit gear.

I have healed EV HM in full recruit (freshly dinged 50 alt) and KP HM with a couple of pieces for Rakata / Columi gear I got from the EV HM run. It was not even hard to heal too. A guildmate has tanked EC SM in recruit too, all through Kephess. We have even run TFB HM with a PUG healer in Columi / Rakata mixed (our guild is perennially healer short ).

I've aggregated some numbers for you guys and I can give some answers on when PvP gear can be used in lieu of full PvE gear.

 

Using a DPS marauder, I compiled the following builds PvE and PvP builds, using stock modifications and with a small emphasis on Strength and Power when given the option (e.g. in implants and relics):

 

Tionese

Columi

Rakata

Black Hole MK-1

Campaign

Dread Guard

Recruit MK-2

War Hero

Elite War Hero

Tionese/MK2 Hybrid (for fresh 50s with 99x Tionese Commendations and free MK-2 gear)

 

Alternatively, you can read the combined stats of all the builds through this spreadsheet that I crudely made.

 

With the numbers side by side, we can make some reasonable hypotheses:

 

1. Full Recruit MK-2 players can complete most Tier 1 HM flashpoints and Tier 1 SM operations (as DPS). The overall base damage between full Tionese and Full Recruit MK-2 are pretty close. The Tionese build will be slightly better because the relics are on-use, which will give short periods of additional DPS. A Tionese/Recruit hybrid will output considerably more damage than a person in full Tionese, but will still be slightly below a full Columi player.

 

2. Full War Hero players can complete all flashpoints and all Tier 1 operations on any difficulty, EC SM and TFB SM (as DPS). War Hero players can actually out-DPS Rakata players. If the Rakata player used the on-proc relics whenever it was available, the DPS difference may not be that significant.

 

3. You should not bring War Hero gear to EC HM or TFB HM (as DPS). While the evidence suggests that you should be able meet the DPS requirements for these operations, other factors such as your health will start to reduce your overall survivability in most boss fights, which typically require players to take damage no matter how good you are. The uselessness of expertise in PvE content are highlighted significantly in these modes and only gets worse as you progress through the operation.

 

4. PvP gear has no place in EC NiM. Don't even try.

 

I have not compiled numbers for tanks and healers but the results should be roughly similar. I only did DPS because that is the majority of most players.

 

Remember, gear is not the end-all factor to determining a player's ability to complete PvE content. If

, you have no excuse.

nice post and thank you for the links. one can draw their own conclusions from them. note that pve healers and dps use the pvp power relics or rather they should. this can realign the power stats but you had to draw a line somewhere for customizing gear. where you did was fine for general comparison purposes.

personally i dont care if a pvper is using his gear for a occasionally ops or hm. but if he is going to do more than that he needs to start collecting pve gear. the same is true for pvers in warfronts.