Today browsing through the DPS portion on torparse.com i came across a fellow sentinel who was doing substantially higher dmg than me and i was trying to understand his parse so i can maybe improve my own.

I first noticed that he is using legacy skills during Kephess the undying fight in ftb, which my "spider" senses told me right away that this is something that shouldn't be possible as far as i know.

here is the link to the log and i will try to copy it here for those who hate links

http://www.torparse.com/a/74745

% of Target Hits Action Total Damage Average DPS Average Damage/Hit Critical %

0.06% 1 Legacy Sticky Grenade 708 1.92 708 0%

0.5% 11 Rebuke 5488 14.86 498.91 54.55%

1% 1 Legacy Force Sweep 11078 30 11078 0%

1.02% 7 Crushed 11222 30.39 1603.14 14.29%

3.29% 60 Zealous Strike 36318 98.34 605.3 25%

3.81% 25 Force Leap 42030 113.8 1681.2 32%

4.12% 54 Cauterize 45513 123.23 842.83 35.19%

4.52% 24 Slash 49893 135.09 2078.88 50%

5.02% 116 Strike 55447 150.13 477.99 29.31%

5.37% 9 Dispatch 59239 160.4 6582.11 22.22%

5.46% 3 Legacy Orbital Strike 60222 163.06 20074 66.67%

7.43% 18 Blade Storm 82019 222.08 4556.61 72.22%

9.89% 54 Master Strike 109190 295.65 2022.04 22.22%

11.87% 156 Burning (Physical) 130960 354.6 839.49 55.13%

14.94% 50 Merciless Slash 164892 446.48 3297.84 28%

21.63% 124 Burning (Physical) 238685 646.28 1924.88 59.68%

I am not interested in "learning" this exploit, just want to know if this is possible or if this is the result of someone cooking up his logs, the result of someone cheating or poor programming.

Only way that could happen would be if someone could take a companion into tfb. Theoretically you can't.

Legacy abilities are supposed to work ONLY when heroic moment is active. So there must be either 1. An exploit of some kind...or...2. Some log doctoring of some kind.

as far as sentinels posting their dps tho, i do feel like A LOT are editing their logs. Some show logs of hitting 2150 with NO bloodthirst. Its hard to trust who is and who isnt legit these days..

Yeah i am seeing a lot of inconsistencies on a lot of people, like looking through several logs of the same fight that have completely different numbers.

For example given that your gear never downgrades and that once a boss is in game fight mechanics never change(other than due to bugs) the base(min hit) numbers of Sentinel XXX abilities should always be the same or pretty darn close.

Log 1 Sentinel XXX does today Kephess HM(tfb version) His merciless Slash does 1054.69 min dmg (1200 ish DPS over the fight)

Log 2 same sentinel ......................................................................................................2156.xx min dmg (red flag)(~3000 DPS)

Log 3 still same sentienl .......................................................................................1311.xx min dmg (1500 DPS)

given the fact that this sentinel gear is not changing drastically(if any at all almost full 63) abilities min dmg should not change since mechanics have not changed, i can understand that DPS might change due to performance and other issues but min hit of an ability is calculated by a static formula that does not change.

Yeah i am seeing a lot of inconsistencies on a lot of people, like looking through several logs of the same fight that have completely different numbers.

 

For example given that your gear never downgrades and that once a boss is in game fight mechanics never change(other than due to bugs) the base(min hit) numbers of Sentinel XXX abilities should always be the same or pretty darn close.

 

Log 1 Sentinel XXX does today Kephess HM(tfb version) His merciless Slash does 1054.69 min dmg (1200 ish DPS over the fight)

Log 2 same sentinel ......................................................................................................2156.xx min dmg (red flag)(~3000 DPS)

Log 3 still same sentienl .......................................................................................1311.xx min dmg (1500 DPS)

 

given the fact that this sentinel gear is not changing drastically(if any at all almost full 63) abilities min dmg should not change since mechanics have not changed, i can understand that DPS might change due to performance and other issues but min hit of an ability is calculated by a static formula that does not change.

Kephess the Undying takes up to 4x damage from brief periods during the encounter.

Yeah i am seeing a lot of inconsistencies on a lot of people, like looking through several logs of the same fight that have completely different numbers.

 

For example given that your gear never downgrades and that once a boss is in game fight mechanics never change(other than due to bugs) the base(min hit) numbers of Sentinel XXX abilities should always be the same or pretty darn close.

 

Log 1 Sentinel XXX does today Kephess HM(tfb version) His merciless Slash does 1054.69 min dmg (1200 ish DPS over the fight)

Log 2 same sentinel ......................................................................................................2156.xx min dmg (red flag)(~3000 DPS)

Log 3 still same sentienl .......................................................................................1311.xx min dmg (1500 DPS)

 

given the fact that this sentinel gear is not changing drastically(if any at all almost full 63) abilities min dmg should not change since mechanics have not changed, i can understand that DPS might change due to performance and other issues but min hit of an ability is calculated by a static formula that does not change.

How long was log 2? how long were the other 2? how many Merc Slashes did they use? taking one part out of context means nothing.

taking 4X dmg will modify the max amount you do, not the minimum so that is not an excuse for the discrepancies

Since the log doesn't differentiate between mh/oh strikes it technically could on this fight, given that due to terrible rng no offhand strikes could connect outside of the damage boost phases. However unlikely it is, my point is any fight with such a damage boost phase combined with a dual wielding class is subject to factors that could have you drawing the wrong conclusions.

Log editing is a terrible trend, I myself am really outspoken on the matter and have ousted several blatant log edited parses in the last week alone. The only solution sadly is community oversight unless bioware could be convinced of the problem and take action on their end which is sadly unlikely.

Or you can take a more sensible approach of not caring that much for the logs and instead look at the way someone plays the game and responds to a crisis.

Logs are a valuable tool to individuals and the community of an MMO as a whole, there is a reason the community was up in arms about them not being included in release and biowares eventual compliance with the communities wishes. Log editing is harmful to the community in many ways,

http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forums/thread-976-page-33.html

In this thread I expose a log that raised my suspicions upon examining it as being fraudulent, it was performed on a lower armor dummy and than edited, rather simply I might add, to appear as if it was performed on the operations level dummy.

This log was submitted as a part of an application to a guilds main raid group. Now to be frank I don't want anyone this disingenuous in my guild, let alone my raid group, it isn't simply about the players ability to perform, it is about their character.

Logs are used for competition, to assess personal performance, to compare performance across classes, to test and verify data for statistical models and so on and so forth. All of these are compromised via log editing. Frankly you seemed to have missed the point of this thread entirely. The invalidation of the data this tool supplies can invalidate all of the ways the tool is useful to the community. The fact that the tool doesn't tell you everything about a player, IE if they can move out of the fire or not, hardly invalidates the fact that they are very useful in numerous ways and that the ease at which the data they provide can be manipulated is a serious problem.

The saddest thing about dressed up parses is that when they're done by marauders, snipers, and pt's, they make the gap seem larger than it is in comparison to other classes. Which sucks cuz that makes everyone whine about how their class isn't balanced or viable or competitive, where in reality, it is.

Add to the fact I can't believe ppl edit parses...what's the point? To look cool? It's just plain stupid and anyone that does it has a ridiculously huge "little boy" complex

Frankly you seemed to have missed the point of this thread entirely.

That may well be true since I'm obviously not playing a number crunching game.

The saddest thing about dressed up parses is that when they're done by marauders, snipers, and pt's, they make the gap seem larger than it is in comparison to other classes. Which sucks cuz that makes everyone whine about how their class isn't balanced or viable or competitive, where in reality, it is.

The gap is quite large. It is significantly more than the 5% margin Bioware claimed. You have to assume that about equal probability of players of each class are exploiting parses. Luckily, DPS requirements are a joke in this game, so even a team with mostly mediocre dps will be fine. The classes are not balanced dps wise. The only reason why lower dps classes are even viable, because the dps requirements are low.

Logs are a valuable tool to individuals and the community of an MMO as a whole, there is a reason the community was up in arms about them not being included in release and biowares eventual compliance with the communities wishes. Log editing is harmful to the community in many ways,

 

http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forums/thread-976-page-33.html

 

In this thread I expose a log that raised my suspicions upon examining it as being fraudulent, it was performed on a lower armor dummy and than edited, rather simply I might add, to appear as if it was performed on the operations level dummy.

 

This log was submitted as a part of an application to a guilds main raid group. Now to be frank I don't want anyone this disingenuous in my guild, let alone my raid group, it isn't simply about the players ability to perform, it is about their character.

 

Logs are used for competition, to assess personal performance, to compare performance across classes, to test and verify data for statistical models and so on and so forth. All of these are compromised via log editing. Frankly you seemed to have missed the point of this thread entirely. The invalidation of the data this tool supplies can invalidate all of the ways the tool is useful to the community. The fact that the tool doesn't tell you everything about a player, IE if they can move out of the fire or not, hardly invalidates the fact that they are very useful in numerous ways and that the ease at which the data they provide can be manipulated is a serious problem.

I think you are confused about what logs are for (As were most of the people wanting them). Logs are not there so you can look at a person you don't know and see his damage, that doesn't matter. Logs are there so that when something goes wrong in a fight you can look and see what happened, you can see if improvements could be made etc. They are there to compare the fights that went well with the fights that didn't, but like all stats you need to make sure you sample from a group of people that you trust, and not just a bunch of random people.

You seem to use them as some kind of epeen measuring stick. Asking for a log on a guild application just means your guild gets crossed off my list because rotation is the easiest thing to teach someone if they actually know how to play. I don't run a guild in SWtoR (Well I do but that doesn't count) but if I did I wouldn't have an application process at all, you join and play and if you are a dick you leave. Stop being so elitist and caring about something for the wrong reasons.

You seem to use them as some kind of epeen measuring stick.

The only problem is that he isn't the only one.

I think you are confused about what logs are for (As were most of the people wanting them). Logs are not there so you can look at a person you don't know and see his damage, that doesn't matter. Logs are there so that when something goes wrong in a fight you can look and see what happened, you can see if improvements could be made etc. They are there to compare the fights that went well with the fights that didn't, but like all stats you need to make sure you sample from a group of people that you trust, and not just a bunch of random people.

 

You seem to use them as some kind of epeen measuring stick. Asking for a log on a guild application just means your guild gets crossed off my list because rotation is the easiest thing to teach someone if they actually know how to play. I don't run a guild in SWtoR (Well I do but that doesn't count) but if I did I wouldn't have an application process at all, you join and play and if you are a dick you leave. Stop being so elitist and caring about something for the wrong reasons.

Spoken like someone who has never actually tried to use a log to determine "What went wrong?" Simply put, logs are almost never used in this manner, they simply do not contain enough relevant information in a vast majority of cases. Logs can and are regularly used to get a deeper understanding of mechanics, which can help with strats in a vast number of ways. If you have to run to a log every time a tank dies to spike damage or healing irrecoverably falls behind instead of your raid group being able to communicate these facts, which they should be able to, I feel for you, it would suck to spend more time reading logs than raiding.

As to the focus of my post, well that might possibly be because those are the issues most affected by log editing ya? You know the point of this whole thread lol? No one goes in and edits, "Toth hits entire raid group for 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000, everyone dies" and then runs to the forums calling for a nerf, although I suppose they could. You two sound like a bunch of casuals who think logs are some evil tool of the elitist trying to keep you down. The game gives us hammers, the hammers are broke and your argument is who cares I never liked hammers neway -_-