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PvP Suggestion: Revising Electro Net

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
PvP Suggestion: Revising Electro Net

kissingaiur's Avatar


kissingaiur
06.06.2019 , 08:58 AM | #1
I believe it’s time to revise Electro Net and I have some suggestions.

Electro Net was introduced at a time when Mercenaries/Commandos were particularly weak—before abilities like Rocket Out, Responsive Safeguards and improved Kolto Overload—and needed a trump card to make them more viable/survivable. It was and remains one of the most powerful abilities in the game. Mercenaries’ new defensive cooldowns make them extremely tanky—the developers should consider a rework of Electro Net to be a critical quality-of-life change for PvP.

Let me be clear: I am not advocating the removal of Electro Net. I think it’s an interesting mechanic, adding a layer of complexity to the game. The following suggestions are with a view to improving balance in PvP. As it stands, Electro Net is too punishing; it is particularly frustrating when multiple Electro Nets are in play. Here are three suggestions:

1)The target of Electro Net receives a 90s (edited) buff which prevents them being affected by Electro Net for its duration (similar to the “Bastioned” buff applied by Cybertech grenades). Optionally, players could be unable to activate Electro Net against players who are immune (the ability would be grayed out on their action bars) so they don’t waste it during this time.

or

2) Rework resolve: make players immune to the effects of Electro Net completely when their resolve meter is filled (when they have “white bar”), enabling them to use escapes and high-mobility actions. Electro Net, in addition to restricting activating lifesaving defensives, it also punishes you for moving during its duration with its stacking DoT. This makes the slowing addition to the Electro Net function in combat more like a root than a slow. The resolve system is meant to give players a window during which they can defend themselves but Electro Net denies you this window. If developers are wary of reworking hinder, at least prevent players’ movement from being impaired when their resolve meter is filled.

or

3)Reduce the duration of Electro Net’s effects from 9 seconds to 7 seconds. Slight reduction in effect time.
Hothothothothothotho
"I need you all to know that I’ve transcended ranked pvp by reading about it on the forums"
5.6 PvP Operative Healing / twitch.tv/kissingaiur

SlimeyDoom's Avatar


SlimeyDoom
06.06.2019 , 09:36 AM | #2
These changes would not add “interesting complexity” to the game, they would be straight up nerfs. Mercenary is not good in team ranked, it doesn’t need nerfs to its utility. Sniper and sorcerer are stronger ranged dps, and sorc and operative heals are much stronger than mercenary heals. Your changes will make it so electronet is either not usable half the time, or usable perhaps once per round in arenas. That is ridiculous, and will simply make mercenary even worse than its counterparts in group ranked.

And for what? What is the purpose of this? So solo ranked is “better”? For starters, they need to fix matchmaking in solos. That’s the number one issue in solos, not that electro net is too strong. Secondly, the game is not balanced around solo ranked, nor should it be. If the game was balanced around a game mode where having four dps happens reasonably often, every single class would be given so much sustain and defensive power that Trinity comp matches would end in acid. Lastly, most control or hinder effect that are stacked are powerful. Double carb and double awe are examples of meta defining group ranked comps that revolve around having multiples of a powerful control effect. Multiple electronets SHOULD be powerful, it’s meant to be a powerful ability. And unlike awe/carbonize, electronet is only a hinder effect. It does not lock people out of using most abilities, and guard can still be moved when electronet is being used. This is why net is not as strong as other control effects, and why it doesn’t need a nerf in group ranked.

JediMasterAlex's Avatar


JediMasterAlex
06.06.2019 , 09:52 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by SlimeyDoom View Post
why it doesn’t need a nerf in group ranked.
Why on earth would they balance around a dead game mode?

These suggestions for net in the OP are excellent. Mercs are by far the most overpowered pvp class in everything except group ranked, and group ranked has been totally irrelevant for a long time.

SlimeyDoom's Avatar


SlimeyDoom
06.06.2019 , 09:56 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by JediMasterAlex View Post
Why on earth would they balance around a dead game mode?

These suggestions for net in the OP are excellent. Mercs are by far the most overpowered pvp class in everything except group ranked, and group ranked has been totally irrelevant for a long time.
The game has been balanced around a trinity group of two dps, a healer, and a tank since launch. Ignoring that is just silly.

Also, I can’t help but notice that all the players who call group ranked irrelevant are invariably mediocre reg/solo stars who tend to lack basic skills such as positioning, awareness, game sense, etc.

JediMasterAlex's Avatar


JediMasterAlex
06.06.2019 , 10:05 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by SlimeyDoom View Post
Also, I can’t help but notice that all the players who call group ranked irrelevant are invariably mediocre reg/solo stars who tend to lack basic skills such as positioning, awareness, game sense, etc.
The reflexive school-yard insult is nice, but it doesn't change the fact that group ranked is irrelevant. No one good plays it. All that was left in season 10 was mediocre teams farming mat farmers, and now even that is gone. It's just dead. You clearly have a hard time accepting the truth.

kissingaiur's Avatar


kissingaiur
06.06.2019 , 10:13 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by SlimeyDoom View Post
These changes would not add “interesting complexity” to the game, they would be straight up nerfs. Mercenary is not good in team ranked, it doesn’t need nerfs to its utility. Sniper and sorcerer are stronger ranged dps, and sorc and operative heals are much stronger than mercenary heals. Your changes will make it so electronet is either not usable half the time, or usable perhaps once per round in arenas. That is ridiculous, and will simply make mercenary even worse than its counterparts in group ranked.

And for what? What is the purpose of this? So solo ranked is “better”? For starters, they need to fix matchmaking in solos. That’s the number one issue in solos, not that electro net is too strong. Secondly, the game is not balanced around solo ranked, nor should it be. If the game was balanced around a game mode where having four dps happens reasonably often, every single class would be given so much sustain and defensive power that Trinity comp matches would end in acid. Lastly, most control or hinder effect that are stacked are powerful. Double carb and double awe are examples of meta defining group ranked comps that revolve around having multiples of a powerful control effect. Multiple electronets SHOULD be powerful, it’s meant to be a powerful ability. And unlike awe/carbonize, electronet is only a hinder effect. It does not lock people out of using most abilities, and guard can still be moved when electronet is being used. This is why net is not as strong as other control effects, and why it doesn’t need a nerf in group ranked.
The ability itself is what adds complexity to the game. By nerfing it slightly doesn't remove the complexity of the ability, it makes the ability more balanced for the certain revamped Mercenary class. When Electro net was added it was some half-*** attempt (no offense devs) to fix a class that really needed massive reworking to be on par with others. Mercenaries became that class where you would go "well at *least* they have net to offer the team". Net design for that time was in reaction to the class not having any real way to escape players in battle because they are a stationary range class with long cast times and channels. Even back then the ability over-tuned but it was mostly overlooked because the class was overall not that great in pvp. Net didn't even need to exist back then if Mercenaries had the defensive they have now.

By adding for example a bastion buff you can have solo ranked matches that do not revolve around your sorc dps ability to dodge 3 nets in a row. You could like actually play the game.
Hothothothothothotho
"I need you all to know that I’ve transcended ranked pvp by reading about it on the forums"
5.6 PvP Operative Healing / twitch.tv/kissingaiur

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
06.06.2019 , 10:24 AM | #7
You're both right, in a way.

The game was originally designed around trinity comps.

granked is the smallest of minorities, even among those who regularly pvp.

MANY of the "balance" changes that have been made over the past 4 years -- including the introduction of electronet & charges to flares and culminating in reflect -- were clearly made in order to give mercs some of the self-sufficiency that juggs and sorcs enjoyed. now as we look back (REFLECT!) on dcds given to other classes, it's patently obvious that BW has turned away from the trinity meta. I don't think that's a good thing, but it is a fact.

I have long advocated that the solution wasn't to give mercs the same dcds as juggs (which they did!) but, rather, to nerf dps dcds to the extent that healers and tanks were necessary. I know no one wants to hear this, but PTs are what dps should look like in a trinity meta. deadly as hell but incredibly mortal and absolutely in need of the "support classes."

so as much as I hate to agree with slimeydoom, he's right in that things should feed the need for heals and tanks. however, jedimasteralex is also correct in that BW is going in the other direction and has bee for years.
Krack

Rion_Starkiller's Avatar


Rion_Starkiller
06.06.2019 , 11:12 AM | #8
Remove from mercs and mandos. Give E-net to PT's.
-Beruhl
ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Lies have been corrected.

SlimeyDoom's Avatar


SlimeyDoom
06.06.2019 , 11:21 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by kissingaiur View Post
By adding for example a bastion buff you can have solo ranked matches that do not revolve around your sorc dps ability to dodge 3 nets in a row. You could like actually play the game.
The issue in this hypothetical is not that electronet is too powerful per say, but that matchmaking is stacking three mercenaries on one team. If it were altered so that class stacking was discouraged, that would be better than nerfing electronet so it’s only usable once per round.

This is treating the symptoms of solo ranked, not addressing the root cause of the problems. This same logic got every healing class nerfed at the start of 5.0 to reduce the TTK, when the issue was that classes like sniper, mercenary, and marauder had too much sustain, not that healers were overtuned.

And once again, the changes that you suggested, such applying a 2-3 minute enet resistance buff or not allowing white barred targets to be netted, would make the ability very bad in trinity matches. Furthermore, just putting a band aid on the issue of solo ranked class stacking by nerfing net would just mean that tomorrow people would just complain about something else, such as stacking fury marauders or something.

RACATW's Avatar


RACATW
06.06.2019 , 11:32 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by foxmob View Post
You're both right, in a way.

The game was originally designed around trinity comps.

granked is the smallest of minorities, even among those who regularly pvp.

MANY of the "balance" changes that have been made over the past 4 years -- including the introduction of electronet & charges to flares and culminating in reflect -- were clearly made in order to give mercs some of the self-sufficiency that juggs and sorcs enjoyed. now as we look back (REFLECT!) on dcds given to other classes, it's patently obvious that BW has turned away from the trinity meta. I don't think that's a good thing, but it is a fact.

I have long advocated that the solution wasn't to give mercs the same dcds as juggs (which they did!) but, rather, to nerf dps dcds to the extent that healers and tanks were necessary. I know no one wants to hear this, but PTs are what dps should look like in a trinity meta. deadly as hell but incredibly mortal and absolutely in need of the "support classes."

so as much as I hate to agree with slimeydoom, he's right in that things should feed the need for heals and tanks. however, jedimasteralex is also correct in that BW is going in the other direction and has bee for years.
Sadly I don't think bioware will want to take away classes I win buttons.