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June PvP Report


MikeBradley

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Hey All,

 

In June we caught and punished 24 accounts for win trading or cheating in PvP. We have:

 

 

  • Suspended the accounts
  • Zeroed out all ranked ratings of every character on those accounts
  • Removed all of their Ranked PvP Reward Tokens

 

There was 1 account that we permanently banned this month for repeated cheating offenses.

 

I understand that many of you were dissatisfied with the contents of last month’s report, so I’d like to loop back and speak specifically to some points and questions that were raised there.

 

 

CS Suspicions

Also, why haven't you guys opened up a dialogue on some of these wintraders seemingly having control on customer support? He who shall not be named has admitted to being employed by one of your EU locations, likely the one in Ireland where your ToS team is based. He has insiders that are aiding and abetting his and his friends' illegal behavior.

 

Well the question is whether you think you really get all the appeals. I mean, I am sure you guys are not the first ones to get these, there must be some staff gathering and forwarding them to you. What the people were concerned about is whether you really get all the appeals and whether “someone” isnt able to resolve it without you knowing about it

 

This is simply not true. I know our Galway team, we are in contact with them on a daily basis, and contrary to the rumors you may hear, they are one of our greatest allies in stopping cheaters in PvP, not helping them. Without going into too much detail, the tools our CS teams use have meticulous history of anything that is done to an account, it is simply not possible that “secretly helping” an account could happen or go unnoticed.

 

Which seems more likely… that several employees at every level of that office would risk their careers, reputations, and livelihoods to protect a cheating players’ points in a video game… or that someone is lying on the internet?

 

 

Let’s Talk About Punishments

1 week ban is not an actual punishment.

 

These punishments are far too lenient.

 

i think the punishment is a bit mild, don't you?

 

Tougher punishments, less leniency for past offenders please.

 

Now that I’m sharing specifics on how many accounts we catch and what action we take against them, it’s clear that many, if not all of you, are displeased with the severity of the punishments in these cases. I’d like to talk about these punishments, what our goals are for having them, why I am also dissatisfied with aspects of them, and what we’re focused on trying to improve going forward.

 

 

Our Goals

 

The cornerstone of our game and our team is that we want people to play and enjoy our game. When players cheat, hack, exploit, bot, trade wins, scam, harass other players, or any other form of rule-breaking behavior, we have to make decisions on how to punish every possible infraction. In making these decisions, we look at the offense, what exactly they did, how they did it, what we believe they were trying to achieve, who was affected, how severely, and then we attempt to craft a punishment that we feel is fitting for each offense. This is absolutely an imperfect process, but it is one grounded in the goal that we want to change and deter the problematic behavior, so that as many people can play and enjoy our game as possible.

 

We know that not all of our punishments are completely effective at changing bad behavior, but we have pretty good evidence that many of them are. I have no problem with any conversation revolving around the effectiveness of punishments, which ones seem to work, which ones don’t, and sharing ideas for deterring or discouraging cheating. Within our team, we are constantly having discussions on these topics specifically, and I do my best to ensure that those discussions are reinforced by the ideas and sentiments shared here on the forums.

 

 

Banning Accounts

 

Every account we action for cheating gets an email that spells out very clearly if we catch them again, punishments will be more severe, up to and including account closure. I’ve seen a couple posts asking that I clarify where exactly that line is, and what specifically will get an account banned. I’m reluctant to go into too much detail here because I worry that rather than be a deterrent, it would reveal the exact level of tolerance we have, and that those who cheat would know exactly how far they can push the boundaries. At the end of the day, the primary reason that we are not more regularly banning accounts is that very few cross that line after their first punishment.

 

I’ve read sentiments that claim that we’re afraid to ban accounts that give us money (not true), that there is no amount of cheating that will get you permanently banned (also not true), or that we should lower the bar for banning accounts and do so more freely (honestly that’s a fair debate that several of us on the team are having every month).

 

The truth is, we do permanently ban accounts that we repeatedly catch cheating. We’ve banned around a dozen accounts just this season, and I imagine there will be a couple more before it’s over. In some instances we’ve seen bans meaningfully change behavior and in others we have seen players simply make new accounts and continue cheating, so even these punishments are not the cure-all that they may seem.

 

 

Why I am dissatisfied with some of our current cheating punishments…

 

I’m also frustrated with some of these punishments because they are only treating symptoms of the problems and not the problems themselves. In my view, one of the biggest problems is that in some ways our systems, leaderboards, and PvP quest rewards can incentivize bad behavior. Given the tools that we have right now, and the specific actions that we’re currently able to take, these do not feel like problems that we can realistically punish our way out of. I know that it’s tempting to believe that permanent bans are the only solution to all of these problems, but we’ve seen that is not always the case. In these instances, I think we need a better solution.

 

Given the bridges that I’m trying to build between our studio and this community, I’ve been asked specifically to work with our designers and analytics team to come up with some new actions that we can take against cheaters that will remove their ability to ruin the experience of others, while also staying true to our primary goal for the game. So far we have some promising leads, and while I’ll allude to some below, I’m hesitant to go into too much detail here until we can firmly commit the time and resources to them.

 

 

What we’re focused on improving going forward

 

As a quick caveat, I can’t promise that any of these will be enacted within a certain timeframe, but these are all specific areas that we’re doing our utmost to build consensus around within the studio. Conversations on these points are happening regularly, every week, and some are getting real traction. As soon as we have designs solidified and scheduled on our calendar, I will let you all know.

 

 


  •  
  • A way to remove cheaters from the PvP ques altogether for the duration of the season
  • How we can adjust our PvP rewards and/or systems to disincentivize bad behavior across the board
  • Extra conditionals to improve the average quality of PvP matches, even if it lengthens que times somewhat
  • Lockout timers for those who leave ranked matches or decline a que
  • Better data on 3v4 matchups, how we can track them more accurately and do more to prevent them altogether
  • How to grow overall player involvement in PvP (ranked and unranked)

 

I appreciate the time and effort that many of you took to submit reports to the new email address, the additional evidence provided there has been very helpful in our ongoing efforts to clean up cheating in PvP. Look for an extra report later this month regarding another special investigation we’re wrapping up. *Spoiler Alert* There will be bans.

 

Until next time…

 

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There was 1 account that we permanently banned this month for repeated cheating offenses.

 

Woohoo. Finally.

 

We know that not all of our punishments are completely effective at changing bad behavior, but we have pretty good evidence that many of them are.

At the end of the day, the primary reason that we are not more regularly banning accounts is that very few cross that line after their first punishment.

 

These statements worry me. I think you have more confidence than you should that those accounts have stopped engaging in bad behavior. For example, I know of several ranked wintraders that got a lenient first punishment for fairly blatant wintrading. Since then, it's true that they almost certainly have not engaged in that same form of blatant wintrading, but they still wintrade. They get friends to queue with them and perform well when they're on the same team, and appreciably worse when they are on opposite teams. I understand that this sort of wintrading is the hardest to detect, but it is absolutely happening, and at least in some cases by players that have previously gotten punished for wintrading. There is a top 3 jugg on Star Forge that has wintraded his way to that rating, without question.

 

or that we should lower the bar for banning accounts and do so more freely (honestly that’s a fair debate that several of us on the team are having every month).

 

Please keep having this debate! If people are knowingly wintrading and rulebreaking, I don't think much leniency is justified. Other games do not hesitate to punish cheaters harshly.

 

Look for an extra report later this month regarding another special investigation we’re wrapping up. *Spoiler Alert* There will be bans.

 

Looking forward to it. This was your best report yet. Keep it up.

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Hello,

first of all, thank you for the very detailed report. It is much appreciated :)

Reading this, only one instance came to mind where Mission rewards incentivise bad behaviour:

The Weekly Ossus Mission "[WEEKLY] Win 8 Medals" is not bound to actually finishing the Warzone.

 

Issue:

People do leave the WZ after the 8th Medal has been awarded as this is done instantly.

 

To fix this I would do the following:

- Award it at the End of the Warzone & require that the WZ is finished (not left).

- Once someone is over 8 Medals, tighten up the AFK/kick timer so that people are not incentivised to just "sit it out"...

 

As I am not doing much ranked PvP, I can't really say much about it, other than:

I would play more but I am getting deterred to jump into ranked more often by:

 

  • people who question your every behaviour - esecially when you are just doing your job (i.E. as a tank: switching guard to the person focused)
  • people who have to tell me what they want to be doing to/with my mother
  • people who cannot control their adrenalin and think it as "banter" when they are actually insulting the other...

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Hello,

first of all, thank you for the very detailed report. It is much appreciated :)

Reading this, only one instance came to mind where Mission rewards incentivise bad behaviour:

The Weekly Ossus Mission "[WEEKLY] Win 8 Medals" is not bound to actually finishing the Warzone.

 

Issue:

People do leave the WZ after the 8th Medal has been awarded as this is done instantly.

 

To fix this I would do the following:

- Award it at the End of the Warzone & require that the WZ is finished (not left).

- Once someone is over 8 Medals, tighten up the AFK/kick timer so that people are not incentivised to just "sit it out"...

 

As I am not doing much ranked PvP, I can't really say much about it, other than:

I would play more but I am getting deterred to jump into ranked more often by:

 

  • people who question your every behaviour - esecially when you are just doing your job (i.E. as a tank: switching guard to the person focused)
  • people who have to tell me what they want to be doing to/with my mother
  • people who cannot control their adrenalin and think it as "banter" when they are actually insulting the other...

 

I would go even further and require them to win the match and get 8 medals.

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I have an idea to deincentivize cheating.

 

1) remove loss elo entirely.

 

2) replace it with elo decay.

 

3) make the win count for rewards/elo very high.

 

 

how will this change anything: while people will still cheat to win, there is nothing you can do about that. its a compitive game mode, there will always be people looking for the easy way out. but, removing elo loss, will make people more willing to play honestly since losing will no longer slow them down. as for elo decay? this will stop all these players who queue for 3 weeks at season start, get gold and quit the game for 6 months. which I dont have to explain to you what that does to queue times, sub counts, ya da da.

 

The other thing Id like to point out is if a match ends with less 8 people, no one should get rating.

 

and the last thing. Make all pvp mats/rewards win only please. no particpation rewards. do you know what someone said to me in ranked 3 weeks ago? "I cant beat hm queen so Im going to lose 50 times in solo queue and get my crystal". if the crystal was only awarded after 10-??? wins this kind of thing would not happen. and, since you dont get it in pve for particpating you shouldnt get it that way in pvp.

 

 

 

please consider these things

 

Post edit: I thought some more about the no elo for less than 8 people matchs.... and I think to deter people from troll quiting a loss and cheating others, if you leave a match, you should get a 24 hours cd from ranked queue.

 

and it should accumulate. from repeated use. 24/36/48/7days max (imo, it needs to be legacy based, like squelshed. there is no reason to leave a game mode that have commited yourself too. if you do this, you obviously dont have the required free time for such a mode and should not be there.) because swtor does not have a viable rejoin option, I recognize disconnected internet would be hard but I would say a good work around is make accumulated hour cds should expire 24 hours after the cd is up. so if you disconnect, get a 24 hour cd, come back next day, and by the third day, the "36" expires back to 24 for first offence.

Edited by Seterade
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I have an idea to deincentivize cheating.

 

1) remove loss elo entirely.

 

2) replace it with elo decay.

 

3) make the win count for rewards/elo very high.

 

 

how will this change anything: while people will still cheat to win, there is nothing you can do about that. its a compitive game mode, there will always be people looking for the easy way out. but, removing elo loss, will make people more willing to play honestly since losing will no longer slow them down. as for elo decay? this will stop all these players who queue for 3 weeks at season start, get gold and quit the game for 6 months. which I dont have to explain to you what that does to queue times, sub counts, ya da da.

 

The other thing Id like to point out is if a match ends with less 8 people, no one should get rating.

 

and the last thing. Make all pvp mats/rewards win only please. no particpation rewards. do you know what someone said to me in ranked 3 weeks ago? "I cant beat hm queen so Im going to lose 50 times in solo queue and get my crystal". if the crystal was only awarded after 10-??? wins this kind of thing would not happen. and, since you dont get it in pve for particpating you shouldnt get it that way in pvp.

 

 

 

please consider these things

 

Post edit: I thought some more about the no elo for less than 8 people matchs.... and I think to deter people from troll quiting a loss and cheating others, if you leave a match, you should get a 24 hours cd from ranked queue.

 

and it should accumulate. from repeated use. 24/36/48/7days max (imo, it needs to be legacy based, like squelshed. there is no reason to leave a game mode that have commited yourself too. if you do this, you obviously dont have the required free time for such a mode and should not be there.)

 

Cheaters need to be banned.

 

The person who was going to lose 50 times to get their prize is absolutely fine. No one will que if you only get rewards for winning. You will kill pvp with this dumb move.

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@Mike

 

Why there is no response to emails sent to the pvpReports@swtor.com?

 

I for one sent a very in depth report about a player fly hacking in ranked with several links to several twitch streams. I was dismayed when no response was given. I assume it was read since the player was subsequently banned, however I'd appreciate the decency of a response. If we players are taking the time to go the extra measure and personally report cheaters and hackers to a specialized email account, why is there no acknowledgement? And I'm not talking an atomized "We are aware of the situation" type of response, but maybe some questions about clarification or detail? We take the time to write these emails because we care and we understand the situation to some depth. It's not some half baked in-game ticket.

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I’ve read sentiments that claim that we’re afraid to ban accounts that give us money (not true), that there is no amount of cheating that will get you permanently banned (also not true), or that we should lower the bar for banning accounts and do so more freely (honestly that’s a fair debate that several of us on the team are having every month).

 

 

 

 

Iam sorry but you can't just start banning everyone you don't like without firm and confident evidence of cheating. In my experience even though i play legit many are blaming me in speed hacking (because i play sin and often get Dsync thanks to force speed) and wintrading (lately the pops are pretty low and most of people have to fight same enemies all over again so i often matched against some bad players). People are always blaming each in wintrading or other cheating when there is really no wintrade or cheating.

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Hello,

first of all, thank you for the very detailed report. It is much appreciated :)

Reading this, only one instance came to mind where Mission rewards incentivise bad behaviour:

The Weekly Ossus Mission "[WEEKLY] Win 8 Medals" is not bound to actually finishing the Warzone.

 

Issue:

People do leave the WZ after the 8th Medal has been awarded as this is done instantly.

 

To fix this I would do the following:

- Award it at the End of the Warzone & require that the WZ is finished (not left).

- Once someone is over 8 Medals, tighten up the AFK/kick timer so that people are not incentivised to just "sit it out"...

 

As I am not doing much ranked PvP, I can't really say much about it, other than:

I would play more but I am getting deterred to jump into ranked more often by:

 

  • people who question your every behaviour - esecially when you are just doing your job (i.E. as a tank: switching guard to the person focused)
  • people who have to tell me what they want to be doing to/with my mother
  • people who cannot control their adrenalin and think it as "banter" when they are actually insulting the other...

 

Better yet just don't FORCE people to PVP.

Rather than only have 1 weekly let people choose which weekly they want - The medals, the FP or the Ops. And equalise the time requirement. PVP one is by a long long mile the easiets of the bunch. Make the FP just 1 Master mode. Make the Ops one grant 2 crystals as it takes longer to do the Ops and the queues very rarely pop.

Edited by GrimTheGlutt
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Iam sorry but you can't just start banning everyone you don't like without firm and confident evidence of cheating. In my experience even though i play legit many are blaming me in speed hacking (because i play sin and often get Dsync thanks to force speed) and wintrading (lately the pops are pretty low and most of people have to fight same enemies all over again so i often matched against some bad players). People are always blaming each in wintrading or other cheating when there is really no wintrade or cheating.

 

Only an actual cheater/wintrader would type a post like this with a straight face.

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  •  
  • A way to remove cheaters from the PvP ques altogether for the duration of the season
  • How we can adjust our PvP rewards and/or systems to disincentivize bad behavior across the board
  • Extra conditionals to improve the average quality of PvP matches, even if it lengthens que times somewhat
  • Lockout timers for those who leave ranked matches or decline a que
  • Better data on 3v4 matchups, how we can track them more accurately and do more to prevent them altogether
  • How to grow overall player involvement in PvP (ranked and unranked)

 

Can you please please please do something to prevent unbalanced roles matches at all costs. like one team has a healer and another has a tank. or one team has a tank and 3 dps vs. 4 dps.

 

these matches should never ever happen. backfill is not an excuse to put a tank on one team and not another, imo.

 

can you confirm or deny that you have the technology to gather all 8 players' acceptance of the queue pop before porting them into the arena? I think that would go a long way to resolving both the 3v4's and the unbalanced/backfill situation. if you say you cannot do it because of the code, well that's one thing. but if there's another reason, I'd love to know. and I won't go crazy stewing over it if it's something you can't do vs. something you don't want to do.

Edited by foxmob
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Extra conditionals to improve the average quality of PvP matches, even if it lengthens que times somewhat

Lockout timers for those who leave ranked matches or decline a que

 

If you want to help improve the quality of reg pvp, then you have to give them an incentive to win and not death match all over the map.

Aka, people playing Hutt Ball don’t play to win anymore or play the ball. They run all over the map death matching and if they win it’s because one or two people on their team did play the ball.

 

The best way to fix this problem in my opinion is change the way rewards work so that only wins count. Then add the deserter buff you mentioned to prevent people rage quitting if they aren’t on the winning side.

As long as you fix the match making system properly, then this shouldn’t be a problem because teams should be relatively balanced.

 

The other possibility, but probably more work. Is to change the medal system so it’s customised for each map. Then give medals for helping the team win and not just who has the highest damage or healing etc. At the end of the match, the rewards are based on how many medals you got multiplied if you win. In some cases, someone on the losing team may even get more rewards if they contribute properly.

 

Edit: there should also never be a back fill for arena. If someone leaves, there should be no rewards. That goes for ranked as well as regs. And if the teams pop 3v4, the match ends before it starts. So sick of back filling into arena dead and having to wait 3 minutes. Or you could just allow back fills to not be dead in the respawn if the match has started.

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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Extra conditionals to improve the average quality of PvP matches, even if it lengthens que times somewhat

 

BioWare needs to understand and admit that Hutball, Arena, and Objective based Warzones are all massively different play styles and have them each be their own queues, while allowing people who like more than one type of play to multi-queue.

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What’s with the influx of ranked and reg players with ?? letters in their names and half the names blanked out?

Is this to make it harder to report if doing something wrong.

I do understand that people use Alt codes to replace letters, which is different to this. It seems they are purposely making it hard to report.

One particular player who is synonymous with cheating has *******’ ’**layla (all those first letters are blanked out as squares). Caught them fly hacking and you can’t report them cause you don’t know what their name is.

I counted at least 5 people with ? as letters tonight.

You may not use gibberish names when creating character, e.g. ajsdu, rifndsw, qweszs.

Do names like the ones I saw with ? in them, violate he rules of conduct as listed

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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Only an actual cheater/wintrader would type a post like this with a straight face.

 

You actually just proved his point. He didn't say he wintrade or cheat he said that because of Dsync (which is obvious not the problem of players, i also dsync sometimes due to mad dash used up from a bridge), he just said that often he gets against bad players which can look like wintrade but it isn't. Just luck with queue which is not happening all the time. Personall, i also often accuse people in wintrade even though iam not sure enough they really do it just because the fights with them looked suspicious to me. Sometimes i was confident people indeed wintraded yet in many cases i was mistaken. Developers should not bann just because of minor suspicious, they must have real edvidence and confidence that accused player indeed wintraded or used hacks. They can't just start banning people right and left, this may lead to claims in courts, people quiting the game and other negative consequences.

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I like this post, thanks for informing us. Being in touch with the community is definitely something that should happen when doing any changes to the game imo.

 

 

A way to remove cheaters from the PvP ques altogether for the duration of the season

 

Theoretically that'd be impossible and i'm sure that's apparent. But I think a good way to enforce this is to have some sort of way to prevent bad behavior as it happens not after it's done. There are ways to prevent this, but not taking up more resources I don't know any.

One BIG problem is with the rating reset, 0 rating can climb tons of rating back in the first game and winning vs someone with no while the rest of them do, you get little to nothing. Which brings up the point of being able to leave a ranked match. TOO often have I gotten a +1 or way less than I would due to leavers, people see the game as a loss and leave early. Rating should not be factored this way, you can prevent someone from climbing too easily if that was what at least 3 players of the queue wanted to do.

 

 

How we can adjust our PvP rewards and/or systems to disincentivize bad behavior across the board

 

I think the rewards are fine, I just think cheating is more rampant because it's barely/lightly punished. I do think the ranking system is due for a change, i'm sure other people do agree.

 

 

Extra conditionals to improve the average quality of PvP matches, even if it lengthens que times somewhat

 

This would be incredibly hard to actually just do but. One way that could help is prevent back-filling, make it a selectable like match with in-progress groups for flash points. LOCK matches that lose more than 3-4 players and have it end early. it's far too much of a waste of time to get back filled into this losing outnumbered matches.

 

 

Lockout timers for those who leave ranked matches or decline a que

 

I think the declining time should be account wide or there's too easy of work around and need to be reasonable as some people just miss the queue. Change how rating is earned and lost in the match so that leaving doesn't effect rating gain or loss.

 

 

Better data on 3v4 matchups, how we can track them more accurately and do more to prevent them altogether

 

In regs I think these are okay, in ranked the match making needs changed again as I said before. Potentially could be done by anyone missing queue or declining the rating gain/loss is already factored so it can't be abused. If we had it remake the game completely this could be abused to get the 'perfect' team.

 

 

How to grow overall player involvement in PvP (ranked and unranked)

 

 

This one is what I want the most, I think there should be maybe more streams regarding PvP or maybe just a PvP swtor discord. Granted not everyone is fit to give advice as they can be biased and not everyone good enough to give advice may play every class/spec and or ranked regs and group ranked. I for example direct to other people when I know someone else can help with certain spec/class more than I can. I feel like the discord would likely take more resources that the team may not have and it's also hard to qualify what advice may be worth taking but.

Thankfully there's SEMI solution to that called polling and having a strict 75% or above to make them pass. A lot of amazing things for high end group ranked players is going to be really different from reg players that just hop on for friends. Something needs to be considered across the board for Regs/solo ranked/group ranked and it should all be viewed before making any changes. Some classes are very self sufficient and others are extremely good with support, which definitely puts things in a weird place for solos.

 

Either way, I hope it just gets more people talking and more interaction with the community. I would love to see things change and for the better.

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Iam sorry but you can't just start banning everyone you don't like without firm and confident evidence of cheating. In my experience even though i play legit many are blaming me in speed hacking (because i play sin and often get Dsync thanks to force speed) and wintrading (lately the pops are pretty low and most of people have to fight same enemies all over again so i often matched against some bad players). People are always blaming each in wintrading or other cheating when there is really no wintrade or cheating.

 

honestly, I cannot recall ever experiencing a desync issue with force speed - certainly not recently. it's always roll, leap, rocket out, mad dash (in that order and often, although not necessarily, with some elevation change).

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This looks better, glad to hear the system may not incentivize cheaters anymore in terms of rewards (credits, materials, gear, wz adrenals / medpacks etc). Hopefully these things get taken away from them.

 

Only an actual cheater/wintrader would type a post like this with a straight face.

 

He furiously defended a known cheaters honor, just a little while back.

Edited by RACATW
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Better yet just don't FORCE people to PVP.

Rather than only have 1 weekly let people choose which weekly they want - The medals, the FP or the Ops. And equalise the time requirement. PVP one is by a long long mile the easiets of the bunch. Make the FP just 1 Master mode. Make the Ops one grant 2 crystals as it takes longer to do the Ops and the queues very rarely pop.

 

Speculation based on observation:

 

The 8-medal reward is filed under Ranked PvP missions on the mission board. I suspect that this mission was supposed to be for ranked-only, and that it is bugged, which is why it completes in regs. The devs probably never fixed it because we players would rage :D

 

Only an actual cheater/wintrader would type a post like this with a straight face.

 

Mmm McCarthyism.

 

honestly, I cannot recall ever experiencing a desync issue with force speed - certainly not recently. it's always roll, leap, rocket out, mad dash (in that order and often, although not necessarily, with some elevation change).

 

A lot of the claims of supposed desync is caused by crappy connections, distance to server, and ping to the server. Take Trixxie for example. She thought people were cheating, but in truth it's because she is in Australia/NZ region and forced to play on the nearest server which is in the northeastern US.

 

The "real desync" is caused by elevation + certain abilities like you say.

Edited by Rion_Starkiller
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force speed affects desync.

 

more times than I can count I have tried to kill a sin/sorc who has the ball at the final acid trap before the goal in queshball.. and they are just not there.

 

on a side note I was able to force choke a sorc who in mid and I was at ball because he desynced so hard through the map that I got a force choke off... pretty impressive how bad the system is. but I digress, the only way that sorc could have been stunned by desync is "if" he desynced, ie force speed.

Edited by Seterade
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If you are watching/fighting a person with a ****** connection, you will see desync on them as well. I can watch *some* players leap holotraverse force speed around traps and never see any desync at all. Then others... it's like a teleport fest.

 

But those traps are also notoriously desyncy, so I'm not arguing against that. I just tired get tired of the generic calls of "rabble rabble desync!"

Edited by Rion_Starkiller
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