Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Games ending early are absolutely unsatisfactory

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Starfighter
Games ending early are absolutely unsatisfactory

Stellarcrusade's Avatar


Stellarcrusade
09.06.2018 , 07:47 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Drakkolich View Post
I was actually worried about what you mentioned here as well. That the reason the games were ending after 30 seconds was because people were dropping from seeing our premade.

So before Verain made this post we made sure that wasn't the reason we were seeing it this much. We did this by solo queue ing on alts.

The results were exactly the same, many games are ending 30 seconds after the start of games because the matchmaker isn't filling out one side.

Also Stellar LOTS of the games that end 30 seconds after the start are from OUR team having less players then they do.

I get some players really don't like premades and blaming them seems like an easy out, but these matches ending early have nothing do with premades, there is something wrong with the matchmaker and it needs to be addressed.
My suggestion was to splitting into 2 groups to see if it happens less, not that it would be eliminated. And I think that is pretty safe to assume it will due to stopping the extra drops on both teams. As you may know, to some people it isn't fun to be on either team of a pre-determined match. You can either be on a team where you will only get 1 kill because the aces pop all those juicy red balloons before you can get to them, or you can be the balloon.

I also agree that something else needs to be done with the match-maker to eliminate this issue no matter if much of the time it is caused by drops from seeing an imbalanced war or not. I still would like the queue to change to not start a game unless it has full people on both sides. The count-down should simply stop if someone drops and restart once both teams are full. This could eliminate 100% the need for a 30 second early end.

I only suggested that as a partial solution because I play pretty much every night, during prime time and almost the only time I see early wars end is during that phenomena. I realize my suggestion may have seemed like an attempt to address the bigger issues of "why match maker doesn't work when aces group up" or "what can we do to eliminate things which kill the queue" but those are conversations for different threads. We know something needs to be fixed with the start of war in the engine, splitting the aces would help some, not a complete fix, any improvement is a good one.

Verain's Avatar


Verain
09.06.2018 , 09:49 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Stellarcrusade View Post
My suggestion was to splitting into 2 groups to see if it happens less, not that it would be eliminated.
Will this somehow help with all the times this happens when we are not on?

I specifically made a thread about early ends to games. If you want to turn this into yet another cry thread about an unrelated topic like premades, why not make a thread about that so I can call you out, instead of bringing that crap into here, where we're discussion a topic that is happening all around the clock on multiple servers?


Quote:
As you may know, to some people it isn't fun to be on either team of a pre-determined match.
...and these people are so sensitive that they preemptively don't take queue pops on servers we aren't logged into at times we aren't playing, right?

Because of us.

Quote:
I still would like the queue to change to not start a game unless it has full people on both sides. The count-down should simply stop if someone drops and restart once both teams are full. This could eliminate 100% the need for a 30 second early end.
I think this is the wrong answer, but it is in the right vein. Usually, when the game is like 11/5 with 10 seconds to go, this would work pretty well. But there has to be some moment at which the game would go. If we're going with rules corrections like this, I'd say something like: increase the baseline time to start the match by 15 seconds. Reduce the pop timer by 10 seconds. In the game lobby, at 10 seconds left, a system message displays and the timer goes to 40 seconds. If the game still doesn't pick up enough to have it work, start it like normal and let it time out.

Mark any players that missed the queue with some manner of low priority thing. Up the chances of making an 8 man with the next game (maybe). In any event, the players that missed the queue should have a harder time getting into the next game, and be considered as less reliable, potentially afk, or potentially griefing, whatever. That black mark should be account bound and reasonably transient.


Quote:
I only suggested that as a partial solution because I play pretty much every night, during prime time and almost the only time I see early wars end is during that phenomena.
Give me servers and times where it doesn't happen. I had it happen two out of three games one day on Malgus prime time, but I can only rarely even be on at Malgus prime time. I've been seeing it happen a lot. And again, this also happened during a whole week where we weren't playing.

Quote:
We know something needs to be fixed with the start of war in the engine, splitting the aces would help some, not a complete fix, any improvement is a good one.
No, it wouldn't. It's a terrible idea too. If this only happened when we were queuing together, I wouldn't have made the thread.
"The most despicable person on the GSF forum."

HrRav's Avatar


HrRav
09.06.2018 , 12:41 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Verain View Post
I had it happen two out of three games one day on Malgus prime time, but I can only rarely even be on at Malgus prime time.
That must have been a case of very bad luck. I play a couple of hours on DM almost every night and I have rarely seen games end prematurely since 5.9.2. However, it is still disturbing that most games start without full teams.

Verain's Avatar


Verain
09.06.2018 , 12:47 PM | #14
That's good to hear. I mostly confined my discussions to Satele and Star Forge, because I was able to look into them more. My experience on DM is more anecdotal.
"The most despicable person on the GSF forum."

phalczen's Avatar


phalczen
09.06.2018 , 02:37 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Stellarcrusade View Post
I still would like the queue to change to not start a game unless it has full people on both sides. The count-down should simply stop if someone drops and restart once both teams are full. This could eliminate 100% the need for a 30 second early end.
Most people in the game do other stuff while waiting in queue, whether its for a flashpoint or a ground warzone or a GSF match. Keeping people hung up in a match lobby waiting for it to back fill is definitely not a good idea even if it can't be griefed.

And lets be clear: the system is intended to not pop a match unless there are enough people queued. We know this from PTS testing of 5.5. If we assume that system is still working as intended, then the problem has to be with players not accepting the queue pop, either intentionally or because they are AFK and time out. Now that the queue pop notification is unique from the ground warzone UI (another 5.9.2 change, long overdue), its pretty clear that if they don't take the pop, and they are at the keyboard, then they are busy doing something else or waiting for something better to come along (a ground WZ pop perhaps). I'd have preferred that person busy doing something else just un-queued, but I have certainly been in situations where I tried to finish a mission or combat in a phased area and missed the pop acceptance by a second or two because something took longer than anticipated.

If all that is true, then I think we can infer that the system creates the teams right before it sends the invites, meaning its figured out how to divide everyone based on the composite experience "score" of total matches across legacy and highest requisition invested of all the ships on your bar. It's trying to create an even match, now since 5.9.2, and thus it sends the invites out to very specific people to make each team, based on whether they are grouped, what their "score" is, and how long they've been waiting. I think the markedly outnumbered teams at match onset are the result of the system trying to find similarly scored people to backfill when a disproportionate # of similarly scored people decided not to take the pop. Before, the system would just be sending out invites to the folks ungrouped who have been waiting the longest, and therefore the backfills might have been scrubs, aces, or anything in between. Now, its trying to find a similarly-scored player to replace the one that no-showed, and that takes longer, if one such player isn't actually in the queue.

I imagine there must be a problem with creating the teams AFTER the people are invited, since players can trickle in at any point in that 90 seconds. So, if that's the case, I'm not sure how to solve the "no-show" problem. You could overall increase the amount of time to accept a pop which simultaneously increases the amount of time in lobby for people who accept right away. You could individually increase the time in the lobby, giving more time for the matchmaker to try and find replacements to backfill. You could give more time to "This warzone will end unless more players join," which would also give the matchmaker time to find backups, but a lot of points could be scored in either game mode by the larger team, creating a different set of problems. None of these ideas will definitively solve a "no-show" problem. But you can't just "not start a match" until its full.

I will say that in the case of ground PVE activity finder queues, it appears as if the player trinity role, and in some cases, the flashpoint or uprising, is decided AFTER everyone accepts. If the GSF queue was re-designed to act more like ground pve activity finder, then I would speculate that it could simply dissolve the two ops groups if the right number of high score, mid score, and low score individuals don't accept the pop, and it would wait to pop again until enough people re-entered the queue … Just like, if a healer or tank doesn't accept the group finder invite for a random vet mode flashpoint, it will just not start anything until the right distribution of roles has been selected. It doesn't actually teleport anyone into the match lobby until the teams are actually ready.

I'm guessing the code for spawning a GSF match is based on the code for spawning a ground warzone match, and it would be an undertaking to completely re-write it to function like ground pve activity finder.
If you think I've made a good contribution with this post, I kindly ask that you use my Refer a Friend link! Here is more information about the program.

phalczen's Avatar


phalczen
09.06.2018 , 02:58 PM | #16
Of course, the problem with the approach of making the system more like ground PVE activity finder is that you cannot enforce X number of high “score“ players, Y number of mid range score players, and Z number of low score players, in the same way that ground PVE can enforce a certain number of tanks, A certain number of healers, and a certain number of DPS. Also, ground PVE can enforce the Trinity set up because the difficulty of the content is determined by the computer, whereas in PVP the difficulty is based on the skill of the players you are facing. So, I am not sure that a redesign to make the matchmaking more like ground PVE matchmaking is feasible either.
If you think I've made a good contribution with this post, I kindly ask that you use my Refer a Friend link! Here is more information about the program.

Linuxizer's Avatar


Linuxizer
11.09.2019 , 07:52 PM | #17
This is still happening sometimes.

9 players on one side

6 players on the other side

Match starts, and aborts after 30 seconds.
Starfighter videos on youtube


Referral link: https://www.swtor.com/r/jBHrWL

Verain's Avatar


Verain
11.13.2019 , 04:19 PM | #18
For the record, what we are seeing now is nowhere close to what happened when I made this post. The devs have addressed whatever matchmaking issue we were seeing back then.

Perhaps matchmaker could be a little more clever at getting enough people in line before it pops a match, or a lot more clever at rerouting people coming late to the party. But the issues we are seeing are unlike what we saw before- the game was barely playable at times back then.
"The most despicable person on the GSF forum."