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Class Changes: Deception Assassin / Infiltration Shadow

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Shadow / Assassin
Class Changes: Deception Assassin / Infiltration Shadow
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supertimtaf's Avatar


supertimtaf
01.12.2018 , 05:44 PM | #251
Quote: Originally Posted by olagatonjedi View Post
You call it a nerf, I call it rebalancing and correction. The process is definitely credited to BW, at least the majority. However, what caused it to get to the point of needing a complete rebalancing was the fault of the BW AND the players. In the past, as most MMOs do, they continued to overbuff classes due to player suggestions and requests because their class was lacking equality with other classes or because they "needed" a buff. BW unfortunately went along with it to appease the public, and well, how did that public view turn out? Anyways, now that most classes were overbuffed and every aspect of balance was destroyed, they needed to perform this class rebalance. It was necessary for any balance going forward. Is it perfect? No. Is it ever gonna be perfect? Likely not either.
I don't recall many posters on this forum asking "Buff sin plz" or even "Nerf sin plz".
There has been a huge wave of complaints since the last nerf, but nothing else. In fact, I think the community here has been one of the most silent and calm of all when it comes to class balance, or imbalance in this case. We did point out that there was an over-buffing to some spec, respectively merc, snipers, and a bit of mara.
By no means there was peoples asking to "buff shadow so that we can resist those" or even "nerf shadow, they are too op right now". Shadows were fine, just at the right place.
Don't blame the players for a decision that was made solely by the developpers.
Even on the PTR they don't listen to players anyway, so I doubt that they would have listened to some miracle topic that was asking to "nerf shadow because I don't want to L2P" (Srsly, that's every "nerf Shadow" post ever)

That's just my two cents on the matter
Eliadil - Darkness Assassin Darth Malgus

Feel free to use my referal link if you liked my help ! Free stuff for you and me !

olagatonjedi's Avatar


olagatonjedi
01.12.2018 , 06:10 PM | #252
Quote: Originally Posted by supertimtaf View Post
I don't recall many posters on this forum asking "Buff sin plz" or even "Nerf sin plz".
There has been a huge wave of complaints since the last nerf, but nothing else. In fact, I think the community here has been one of the most silent and calm of all when it comes to class balance, or imbalance in this case. We did point out that there was an over-buffing to some spec, respectively merc, snipers, and a bit of mara.
By no means there was peoples asking to "buff shadow so that we can resist those" or even "nerf shadow, they are too op right now". Shadows were fine, just at the right place.
Don't blame the players for a decision that was made solely by the developpers.
Even on the PTR they don't listen to players anyway, so I doubt that they would have listened to some miracle topic that was asking to "nerf shadow because I don't want to L2P" (Srsly, that's every "nerf Shadow" post ever)

That's just my two cents on the matter
Im talking about 6 years as a whole, not just this year.

Evolixe's Avatar


Evolixe
01.12.2018 , 07:19 PM | #253
Quote: Originally Posted by supertimtaf View Post
I don't recall many posters on this forum asking "Buff sin plz" or even "Nerf sin plz".
I already said my peace before and right after the changes went live.
I am not going to keep repeating myself with the same story. Think my message as far as recent Assassin/Shadow changes was pretty clear and that viewpoint isn't going to change as long as no change is made to the game.

I don't think many people other than Bioware really need convincing of my opinion either.
Everyone seems pretty onesided about the whole thing. Thankfully.


In the end, I think many changes have to be made to the current game. Some to our class, a bunch to the others.
After all.. we're all in the same game. If we want a level playing field, it has to be leveled from all sides.

But we can only do that if we understand the bigger picture and look beyond just our own little bubble.
You have to understand that by making sweeping changes to one overperforming class.. another that was previously underperforming might start to flourish because it's biggest adversary has been largely eliminated.

It's all these things that you have to account for.
Game balance changes are like a chain reaction, everything is connected.
Evolixe | Exilove
Disciples of Babylon - Darth Malgus
Shadow/Sin Discord Server

Maudril's Avatar


Maudril
02.16.2018 , 10:17 PM | #254
Wow.... that is a heavy nerf.
I thought Deception was doing meh for burst, and was doing decent on sustained damage?

Welp, time to go Hatred full time.

Maudril's Avatar


Maudril
02.16.2018 , 10:19 PM | #255
Oh, my bad. This is old, isn't it? Woops

DynoByte's Avatar


DynoByte
05.23.2018 , 03:21 PM | #256
Yep Burst is gone .. this class is junk now ... unsub ... good bye.
YASHAYAHU - Shadow / Assassin Shadow Lands & Harb

Equeliber's Avatar


Equeliber
05.25.2018 , 01:08 AM | #257
Quote: Originally Posted by DynoByte View Post
Yep Burst is gone .. this class is junk now ... unsub ... good bye.
You realize these nerfs happened many months ago?
Klorea, Sith Marauder Ael Vienne, Sith Sorcerer Cinthie, Sith Assassin Lora Leigh, Sniper Darth Malgus

Letsjet's Avatar


Letsjet
08.17.2018 , 08:48 PM | #258
Quote: Originally Posted by FlavivsAetivs View Post
IMO the class didn't need a nerf, and here's why:

Infiltration/Deception has literally nothing going for it but raw DPS. Infil/Decep (and Hatred/Serenity) is the only class that doesn't have a raid buff. In fact, it has almost no raid utility at all, since its stealth is tied to its rotation, and on top of that stealth rez is still broken for some people (it breaks at precisely 2.4s each time with NO AOE, buffs, heals, etc. etc. I have been stealth rezzing for 3 years I know when it's broken). It has severely limited AoE and is only good for single target DPS. Finally its gap closer is tied to its rotation as well, which affects mobility although it's much better than used to be when it comes to adds/trash.

Furthermore, Deception/Infiltration doesn't have a single DPS number - you can't bring it down to a target DPS, you can only bring it down to a target range. That target range currently has a margin of error of approximately +/- 500 DPS. The easy way to explain it is that one of our most important procs is basically RNG, it's not guaranteed, so we don't have an actual rotation. As a result the spec can get 10,000 DPS or 9,000 DPS by doing the priority order perfectly; it will be pretty random, although crit/mastery stacking for a really high crit chance narrows it down pretty well. This is far more than any other DPS spec. As a result, our DPS wasn't nerfed from 10,500 DPS to 10,000 DPS, it was nerfed from a range of 9500-10500 DPS to about 8700-9900 DPS (the reduced crit chances have resulted in an expanded margin of error), with the average being nerfed from 9800-10200 DPS (the target range) to 9300-9700 DPS (below its intended target range.)

So IMO, this class didn't need to be nerfed. It has never been wanted in NiM due to its position requirement and low DPS, and complete and utter lack of any raid utility. The only reason it is ever remotely viable as a class is on the off occasion Bioware has accidentally made it "OP" by their standards, which is really where the spec should be, and it is not actually OP.

The least you all can do is make its DPS in front of the boss the same as behind the boss, so there's no position requirement at all anymore. Nerfing it to a soft requirement was an improvement, but not enough. The best you could do is either give us a raid buff, or make us one of the top DPS.
It's over. I was bringing back my sin, my character at launch. Now I'll have to check reddit and see when they are fix, hopefully before the mouse closes it or Bioware doesn't go bankrupt next year with their albatross due to be released
"I see you have constructed a new light saber. Your skills are complete. Indeed you are powerful as the Emperor has foreseen."

Equeliber's Avatar


Equeliber
08.18.2018 , 04:54 AM | #259
Quote: Originally Posted by Letsjet View Post
It's over. I was bringing back my sin, my character at launch. Now I'll have to check reddit and see when they are fix, hopefully before the mouse closes it or Bioware doesn't go bankrupt next year with their albatross due to be released
You have been "coming back" for like 3 months now. Stop trolling already.
Klorea, Sith Marauder Ael Vienne, Sith Sorcerer Cinthie, Sith Assassin Lora Leigh, Sniper Darth Malgus

Sheike's Avatar


Sheike
08.24.2018 , 12:26 AM | #260
These changes should probably be reverted. How can deception/infiltration damage be cut while our DCD's don't protect us well at all compared to other class DCD's? We can't take a hit, we can barely dish it out and we only get one health bar's worth of up time. If we aren't going to be allowed dcd's that give worthwhile protection or allowed any more than one health bar of up time, then you have to restore our damage or we'll just continue to eat crap and get steamrolled. I highly discourage your approach of balancing this game on paper, but not seeing it through in practice i.e. not doing intensive testing with experienced pvpers who specifically rock out on SWTOR. Leave the dcd's as they are if you must, but it shouldn't be difficult to assign appropriate damage to what is supposed to be the melee glass cannon of the game. Eric and others, I want to be honest: This feels like something you guys ought to have realized on your own if you actually play the game as much as you claim to.