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So TOXIC In Ranked Warzone Devs Need To Look Into This

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
So TOXIC In Ranked Warzone Devs Need To Look Into This

JediMasterAlex's Avatar


JediMasterAlex
08.18.2019 , 07:30 PM | #101
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
But the issue is what you consider “lightly flamed” may not be what others consider “lightly flamed” to mean.

That is why we need Bioware to step in and monitor the situation. Only they know what their rules/TOS mean and can decide when people go to far or what is and isn’t acceptable.

Basically, Bioware make the rules and so they should be policing or monitoring them to make sure they are enforced. Otherwise the rules are pointless.

This isn’t any different to any of the other rules they have in place. ie, cheating or the character naming policy or other things they list in the rules. Bioware should be making sure they are monitoring these properly or they might as well remove them from the rules to let it become a free for all and have the players decide what’s acceptable and police themselves.

Imagine it this way for a minute. We all know about and hate the win trading. People have stopped playing because Bioware didn’t seem to care enough to police it, monitor or apply proper punishments. Many of those people who stopped playing because of it or other cheating will never come back to the game or play ranked again because that’s the perception.

Which leads me back to the toxicity discussion. Bioware don’t “seem” to police, monitor or apply proper punishments to people who break the rules that are laid out in the rules of conduct. This is a perception that many people have. So less people are even willing to step into ranked because of it. If they do step in and see it happen just once, it only enforces that belief that ranked is a cesspool of toxicity.

If people were confident that Bioware did monitor and enforce the rules, they would be more accepting of what could happen in ranked because they would know there is a line people can’t cross without consequences.
And here’s the important thing, only Bioware know what that line is, so only they can decide. That means they need to monitor and police the situation and if that means some people are censored or censured for breaking the rules, then that’s what needs to happen. Free speech doesn’t even enter into this discussion because there is no such thing once you agree to the terms and conditions.

Obviously, some people would still be offended because everyone has a different idea on what is offensive to them. But there would be a known line and they could then choose. At the moment, there is hardly a line at all and Bioware don’t monitor it themselves. They rely on us to tell them and that is the biggest problem with many of their systems. Many people won’t report, they just stop playing instead.
Words and actions are totally different. Bioware should absolutely punish those that break the rules by their actions. They should not be similarly punishing people for their speech, even though their TOS allows them to do so. I've already gone over many of the other reasons I think the principles of free speech are still important here, so I won't repeat myself.

I don't know why so many are so eager for Big Brother to be monitoring and controlling their speech. Frankly, it's disturbing.

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
08.18.2019 , 11:29 PM | #102
Quote: Originally Posted by JediMasterAlex View Post
Words and actions are totally different. Bioware should absolutely punish those that break the rules by their actions. They should not be similarly punishing people for their speech, even though their TOS allows them to do so. I've already gone over many of the other reasons I think the principles of free speech are still important here, so I won't repeat myself.

I don't know why so many are so eager for Big Brother to be monitoring and controlling their speech. Frankly, it's disturbing.
Its not big brother or free speech. You agree to the terms of service when you play the game. Bioware could just as easily put other things into the TOS that seem unreasonable to you or me.
Neither you or I have to agree with what they put in, but we do have to accept them if we agree to play the game. Other wise we can choose not to play.
All we are saying is they have the right to do exactly what people are asking for and your argument for free speech is a non starter.

JediMasterAlex's Avatar


JediMasterAlex
08.19.2019 , 12:05 AM | #103
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
Its not big brother or free speech. You agree to the terms of service when you play the game. Bioware could just as easily put other things into the TOS that seem unreasonable to you or me.
Neither you or I have to agree with what they put in, but we do have to accept them if we agree to play the game. Other wise we can choose not to play.
All we are saying is they have the right to do exactly what people are asking for and your argument for free speech is a non starter.
Trixxie, I've said it a million times already, I am fully aware of the terms of service. Bioware can do whatever it wants. If they want to ban people for "toxicity" they can do it. But you know what else they can do? They could shut down the game tomorrow. They could ban everyone with the letter T in their name. They could force everyone's race to Chiss. The options are limitless. They can change their TOS at any time too, and we would still be bound by it by continuing to play the game. They have unlimited power.

But none of that says anything about how they should USE that unlimited power. I seem to recall you protesting all kinds of decisions that Bioware makes, constantly. Well, I am doing something similar. I am saying that it is a very bad idea for Bioware to enforce the TOS in such a way that it leads to people being punished merely for what they say in-game. My rationale for why I think it's such a bad idea relies heavily upon the principles of free speech. I know you're not American, so you may not fully appreciate the impact and importance of our First Amendment. Free speech is the one thing that the US still does better than any other country on earth. It would be well worth anyone's time to take a look at what the Founders had to say on the matter (especially Madison and Jefferson).

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
08.19.2019 , 03:12 AM | #104
Quote: Originally Posted by JediMasterAlex View Post
If they want to ban people for "toxicity" they can do it. But you know what else they can do? They could shut down the game tomorrow. They could ban everyone with the letter T in their name. They could force everyone's race to Chiss. The options are limitless. They can change their TOS at any time too, and we would still be bound by it by continuing to play the game. They have unlimited power.
That’s my point. They can do what ever they want and we’ve essentially got no say. But of course we can complain about it and argue with each other about it

All anyone has asked for is some intervention by Bioware to enforce the rules they’ve “already” set in place for what’s acceptable. No one is asking them to change the TOS, only to enforce the TOS. And the only way they can do that is to monitor what’s going on.

In this day and age of social media tracking and tech companies tracking everything and listening into our lives as well as “real big brother” able to know what ever they want, is it really that bad that Bioware monitor their own game to police and enforce the standards they expect us to follow?

I’m not asking Bioware to inflict my own standards of what is acceptable across the game. Mine would be a lot harsher than yours and many contemporary pvpers. But I would ask that they enforce their own standards and I think 90% of players would be fine with that.

RikuvonDrake's Avatar


RikuvonDrake
08.19.2019 , 05:13 AM | #105
Why don't you just report the player for harassment or any of the other options, if CS does something about it the problem solved, if not most likely you have interpreted the rules incorrectly in regards to what is allowed to say.

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GrandMoffBlaze's Avatar


GrandMoffBlaze
08.19.2019 , 06:04 AM | #106
"Someone being mean to me. Devs fix this plz." Lol. Hit that ignore if it bothers you so much. I've had people literally be super toxic to me in regs because I queue with a premade and farmed numbers. Think I give a ****? Nah dude. Hit that ignore if you don't want to read it. EZ Clap

JediMasterAlex's Avatar


JediMasterAlex
08.19.2019 , 07:20 AM | #107
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
In this day and age of social media tracking and tech companies tracking everything and listening into our lives as well as “real big brother” able to know what ever they want, is it really that bad that Bioware monitor their own game to police and enforce the standards they expect us to follow?
Yes, because merely listening in is one thing; actually punishing people just for their speech is another. I don't trust anyone to be able to responsibly use that power, nor should you. Right now, Bioware only acts in the most extreme cases, and that's as far as they should ever go. Again, this impulse people seem to have where they actually want their speech to be policed...it blows my mind.

SEANeD's Avatar


SEANeD
08.19.2019 , 07:41 AM | #108
Half the fun is sometimes just being in the mood to trash talk. You can just hit ignore and if you’re a more novice player compared to others in solo ranked ask for advice. Half the trash talkers prob would give advice if you asked genuinely it’s in everyone best interest that everyone in queue knows the fundamentals. Not targeting poster specifically maybe the poster is a beast but seriously don’t take trolls to heart. Laugh and troll back or ignore.
Seaney 55 Sorc Pot5
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ChoppedSuey's Avatar


ChoppedSuey
08.19.2019 , 08:11 AM | #109
Quote: Originally Posted by Banderal View Post
I think that's sort of a "self fulfilling prophesy" though. I mean, naturally, the people who think think that "heated words" in ranked are fine are going to continue playing ranked. The ones that don't are going to play a few games, and then "meh, this is totally not worth the abuse". So you naturally end up with people who argue the "toxic load" is fine are the ones that play ranked.
This is, by far the most insightful post in this thread. QFE.
chopped su·ey

Floplag's Avatar


Floplag
08.19.2019 , 09:36 AM | #110
Quote: Originally Posted by JediMasterAlex View Post
Well said. Anyone else noticing a pattern that nearly all of the people that actually play ranked that have posted in this thread have extremely similar opinions on this matter? Because I have.
Have you noticed that those who dont play it have been trying to tell you why?
There are many very good players that should be playing more ranked in this game, that dont, you need to start asking why that is the case, then go find a mirror and you will have your answer.
Floplag - Merc/Mando
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