That is a point, but that doesn't make his talisman immune to it. And too drain all their lives he had to perform an intricate ritual. So we can't be sure if he can perform it of the bat.

 

And Rayla? No idea, maybe her subscription ran out?

 

To Rayla, I just looked up her page. She was/is on today. Maybe she doesn't like us anymore..... No, that's impossible (at least to not like me).

I'm incline to agree with you here. While I think Sion and Traya (with telekinetic lightsabers, shatterpoint etc.) could overwhelm Kun and deal some blows. Kun can incapacitate (or even kill) Sion with a powerful Force blast. And then defeat Traya by conventional means.

 

Uh, how is a force blast going to kill someone whom apparently can't die?

 

As to your comments about Exar Kun sending a fleet to coruscant while he deals with Kreia, you said yourself that Kreia had access to Nihilus's ships (minus Nihilus), the bulk of his starships were in Ulic's hands, thus Ulic is most likely heading to Malachor V at Exar Kun's orders, not Coruscant.

 

Coruscant's planetary defenses in Xizor's time were capable of holding off fleets of starships... I don't think Ulic could do much with a significant portion of their forces sitting at Malachor V.

I believe Traya would win this.

 

While Exar Kun has the larger military; Traya and Xizor wouldn't fight him openly. They'd know that if they did so victory would be impossible. What I see happening is Traya and Xizor ignoring one another and focusing on Exar Kun. Xizor would likely conduct raids on Exar's supply lines and use hit and run attacks on small groups of ships. There would be no large scale confrontations. If Exar Kun's fleet was to large Xizor would flee. Since Xizor posses a strong spy network he would easily be able to track enemy flleet movements. For this reason an attack on Coruscant wouldn't work. He would know that Exar was coming and flee; likely leaving a trap behind. He would then proceed to keep Exar's military of balance. Althouh I don't see Xizor being able to inflict any major damage.

 

Traya will fight in a similar way; her power base foucsed on waging a shadow war. She would likely send out assassins to take out key military leaders in Exar Kun's power base. Her fleet would avoid confrontations until a planet was lightly defended or it found a small group of ships that was unable to be reinforced.

 

Exar Kun would be unable to have a direct confrontation with either of his opponents and would be forced to spend large amounts of time hunting them down. He would never fight on favorable terms.

 

Eventually Exar Kun would decide to go to Malachor V to eliminate Traya and remove one of his enemies. This is where I believe he would be defeated. Since he is fighitng a two front war and his military would be busy hunting down Traya and Xizor's fleets I don't see him being able to bring in a large force. His strike team would probably consist of his best students and a small army. I could see Ulic Qel-Droma being absent and leading the rest of Kun's army in the galaxy.

 

An attack on Malachor is highly problematic. The landing craft would crash causing some casualties and more would die from the storm beasts while approaching the academy. By the time Exar's army arrived, Traya would be expecting them. She would then be able to easily set up defensive positions and her Sith Marauders and trooper could easily inflict heavy damage on his troops. Her Stih assassins would also present a challenge. They specialized in killing force sensitives and where efficient at concealing their presence in the force. I doubt even Exar could sense them. The assassins would conduct hit and run attacks on the invading army and harrass them all the way to the academy's core. I think Exar would be the only one powerful enough to make it.

 

Now comes his fight with Traya; she would likely have Sion along wiht the three Sith from Dxun with her and maybe even a few more assassins concealed in the room. She would know that Exar was more powerful and would want every possible advantage. In the fight she would let Sion and the three other Sith fight Exar while she used her three floating lightsabers. Eventaully the assassins would come out and join the fight. I believe the Kun still would have a good chance at killing everyone, but Sion and Traya. Sion is unkillable so I don't think the force blast could kill him; so he'd have to keep killing Sion. If he survives and manages to kill Sion he would be worn down from the fight and his approach through the academy. This would make fighting Traya one-on-one impossible. I think Kun's power wouldn't matter at this point and Traya, especially since she can see shatterpoints, would be able to kill him.

 

After that, Traya would send out any survivng assasins to kill Xizor or manupulate him into falling into a trap.

Edited January 27, 2013 by cjlcw

Kun isn't a moron....lets see what his intelligence has done for him..

 

1. He manipulated several Jedi into turning against one another and have them join his side so Kun could do the same with Traya's men.

 

2. He strategic intellect coordinated key battles in the Great Sith War. This shows he won't just go in blind in anything, given he is a smart man.

===

 

Plus not only that, he has various powerful items from Naga Sadow on Yavin IV. His Force Blasts could probably kill Sion, it did kill a great dark side beast that was engineered by Sadow and also killed several Massassi Warriors which feed on the darkside.

 

If by some chance it doesn't work, Kun could manipulate Sion into joining him after showing what power he wields. Also I very much doubt Kun wouldn't be able to sense the assassins he could sense throughout the galaxy searching for others.

 

Also Kun could create dark side beasts himself, so they could help him greatly. He could also increase the power of his Massassi Warriors. In short, Kun won't have any problems with Traya or the Academy, Malachor works both ways so it will amp up Kun and his troops too making them far more powerful then before.

Edited January 27, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

Uh, how is a force blast going to kill someone whom apparently can't die?

 

As to your comments about Exar Kun sending a fleet to coruscant while he deals with Kreia, you said yourself that Kreia had access to Nihilus's ships (minus Nihilus), the bulk of his starships were in Ulic's hands, thus Ulic is most likely heading to Malachor V at Exar Kun's orders, not Coruscant.

 

Coruscant's planetary defenses in Xizor's time were capable of holding off fleets of starships... I don't think Ulic could do much with a significant portion of their forces sitting at Malachor V.

 

You know, Exar Kun could simply use his mastery of Sith magic to incapacitate Sion.

 

And Exar Kun would send Ulic to attack Coruscant. The Tetan Navy is closest to Coruscant so he can attack Coruscant with it.

 

Question for Beni: IIRC, the planetary defenses of Coruscant aren't apart of Xizor's powerbase, so why would they be there?

You know, Exar Kun could simply use his mastery of Sith magic to incapacitate Sion.

 

And Exar Kun would send Ulic to attack Coruscant. The Tetan Navy is closest to Coruscant so he can attack Coruscant with it.

 

Question for Beni: IIRC, the planetary defenses of Coruscant aren't apart of Xizor's powerbase, so why would they be there?

 

The alternative is to assume that Xizor would stupidly leave his palace with no defensive capablities, if Coruscant didn't have them already, trust me Xizor would have those defenses in place years before Exar Kun went on his rampage.

Garfield, the reason I believe Kun will have Ulic bring the Tetan Fleet to Coruscant, while he himself leads the Mandalorian Fleet to Malachor V, is mainly because of locations. See this map. The Tetan Fleet is based in the Deep Core, right in the middle, and specifically at Empress Teta. Which you should be able to spot a little north from the centre. You'll also notice that there is a hyperlane leading directly out of the Deep Core to Coruscant. In fact its the only way out of there. So to get to Malachor V Ulic would literally have to pass over Xizor's base (albeit through hyperspace) It therefore seems counterintuitive to bypass it. Its the perfect oppurtunity to launch a suprise attack on Xizor, seeing as it would take him a matter of hours or less to get there - not enough time for Xizor to rally a sizeable force. The Tetan Fleet would decimate Xizor's defenses (although Xizor would likely escape to Mustafar)

 

On the other hand if Kun ordered Ulic to Malachor it would take weeks for him to arrive, with Malachor being all the way at the edge of the Outer Rim. Meanwhile Xizor could prepare a sizeable fleet and send it to Yavin 4 (his forces presumably being centered in the Outer Rim and Hutt space). And Traya could do the same - so before Ulic arrives Traya and Xizor would have attacked Yavin 4, lain waste to his fleet and orbitally bombarded the planet. Not a good idea.

 

And cjicw (nice name ) - you make some good points but there are a few flaws:

 

 

• Xizor would not see Ulic coming, take a look at the map as well. Empress Teta is right next to Coruscant, Ulic could attack fast enough to catch Xizor off guard. Even his intelligence network wasn't that fast. But even so, Xizor could easily flee as soon as Ulic arrives, and hunker down on Mustafar. Still your scenario still stands.
   
   
  
• Kun doesn't really have any 'key military leaders' - they went on crusades, with Mandalore and Ulic leading the Mandalorian and Tetan forces respectively. They only therefore fought on two fronts at any time. And seeing as Mandalore isn't in this Kun will have to lead those forces. Making it difficult for Traya's assassins to bump of anyone significant enough to deal real damage.
   
   
  
• Kun would be aware of Malachor V (for this Kaggath at least, each combatant is aware of their opponents 'capital' if you like i.e. Coruscant, Yavin 4 & Malachor V) and it would be his only target, so he'll attack Malachor V first.
   
   
  
• And then concerning your scenario on Malachor V - I think to stack the odds even more against Kun would be to flee Malachor and ambush him over Yavin 4, cut out the face-to-face confrontation altogether.
  

 

And finally Aurbere, not quite. While the planetary defense aren't strictly part of Xizor's powerbase, they are still present in the Kaggath. Coruscant's planetary defenses are as much a part of it as its skyscrapers are. I mean, look at Malachor V, the various 'fauna and flora' are not strictly part of Traya's powerbase - but are still present. So the same applies to Coruscant. However Xizor doesn't have the Golan platforms, just the shields and the turbolasers (only the automatic defenses), seeing as the Golan platforms are Imperial space stations.

 

However it doesn't make Coruscant impenetrable though. With a rag-tag force guarding the planet Ulic's fleet can rip through them easily and bypass the shields and turbolasers by sending a small landing party to infiltrate the palace (or just himself.) However it does give Xizor plenty of time to escape.

And finally Aurbere, not quite. While the planetary defense aren't strictly part of Xizor's powerbase, they are still present in the Kaggath. Coruscant's planetary defenses are as much a part of it as its skyscrapers are. I mean, look at Malachor V, the various 'fauna and flora' are not strictly part of Traya's powerbase - but are still present. So the same applies to Coruscant. However Xizor doesn't have the Golan platforms, just the shields and the turbolasers (only the automatic defenses), seeing as the Golan platforms are Imperial space stations.

 

However it doesn't make Coruscant impenetrable though. With a rag-tag force guarding the planet Ulic's fleet can rip through them easily and bypass the shields and turbolasers by sending a small landing party to infiltrate the palace (or just himself.) However it does give Xizor plenty of time to escape.

 

Alright well, Coruscant will be of little issue then. Ulic has dealt with Coruscant before, he can do it again. And if Xizor takes his starship off planet, it can either be blown up by the Tetan Navy or a Chaos Fighter. And if he does escape, Ulic will follow him to his other base (provided each combatant knows about the other's secret bases).

 

And for Kun. He doesn't have to wait for the Mandalorian fleet. He can just take his shuttle to Malachor and deal with the Academy himself (seriously, he is that good). But it would be best to wait, which would allow Traya to attack Yavin. Or he could take his shuttle and rendezvous with the Mandalorians for an attack on Malachor. Obviously, the Mandalorians wouldn't be able to operate on the planet, so Kun will have to bring his students with him.

 

This strategy allows Kun to avoid bombardment and still attack Malachor, which would severely damage Traya's powerbase.

Alright well, Coruscant will be of little issue then. Ulic has dealt with Coruscant before, he can do it again. And if Xizor takes his starship off planet, it can either be blown up by the Tetan Navy or a Chaos Fighter. And if he does escape, Ulic will follow him to his other base (provided each combatant knows about the other's secret bases).

 

And for Kun. He doesn't have to wait for the Mandalorian fleet. He can just take his shuttle to Malachor and deal with the Academy himself (seriously, he is that good). But it would be best to wait, which would allow Traya to attack Yavin. Or he could take his shuttle and rendezvous with the Mandalorians for an attack on Malachor. Obviously, the Mandalorians wouldn't be able to operate on the planet, so Kun will have to bring his students with him.

 

This strategy allows Kun to avoid bombardment and still attack Malachor, which would severely damage Traya's powerbase.

Concerning Xizor, I think he could escape Coruscant without being killed. Just think, no fleet can surround an entire planet in a short amount of time, and certainly not effectively. And (using my very rudimentary knowledge of hyperspace travel) Ulic will drop out of hyperspace on the 'wrong' side i.e. from the direction of the Deep Core rather than the rest of the galaxy. So while Ulic gets to the other side, Xizor and Guri can escape on their personal vessels. Both the Virago and the Stinger where fast, shielded, and powerful.

 

And Ulic won't have knowledge of his base on Mustafar, but could find out by say, Force persuading a lackey or searching Xizor's database. That would however give Xizor time to amass a sizable armada.

 

Concerning Kun, Traya won't leave Malachor and attack Yavin 4 unless Kun comes to Malachor V first. She can't afford to make the first move so must wait until he does. Else she can't set up an ambush. Concerning how Kun will get there, well taking a personal shuttle isn't such a good idea. Kun may be good but how good a pilot is he? Can he evade an entire fleet that may or may not be waiting for him? Will he take that risk?

 

I have been thinking, and I think the best plan of attack concerning Malachor V would be to take the Mandalorian Fleet to Malachor, and then have he and his Brotherhood (roughly 20 Sith adepts) invade the planet via Basilisk War Droids. They are highly maneuverable, heavily armoured and could operate in the vacuum of space. Perfect for landing on Malachor's surface. And I'm sure the Brotherhood and Kun could use the Force to protect them from the vacuum of space as well. Nonetheless, Traya won't be there.

 

Where will Traya be? Well as soon as she senses Kun approaching Malachor V she leave with Sion, some assassins and the entirety of her fleet, go mobile. Then destroy any vessels surrounding Yavin 4 and lie in ambush nearby. When Kun returns from his failed voyage she springs the trap and decimates his forces, and perhaps him with it. If he escapes to his temple, orbital bombardment. Well that is at least how I see Traya winning - not sure about Kun but I'm sure you can come up with something.

I dunno if Xizor would leave any trace behind, so that his enemy could find his whereabouts. He actually has done that before, he left no trace of Vader ever being involved with his family's death so he could do the same here, where if Xizor would escape he would leave no trace of where he would be going or anything of that nature.

I dunno if Xizor would leave any trace behind, so that his enemy could find his whereabouts. He actually has done that before, he left no trace of Vader ever being involved with his family's death so he could do the same here, where if Xizor would escape he would leave no trace of where he would be going or anything of that nature.

I agree, but I would assume most Black Sun members know of the Black Sun HQ on Mustafar (Maul managed to find it.) So he could find one and use Force persuade on him, that may take time though.

I agree, but I would assume most Black Sun members know of the Black Sun HQ on Mustafar (Maul managed to find it.) So he could find one and use Force persuade on him, that may take time though.

 

True, true.

Concerning Kun, Traya won't leave Malachor and attack Yavin 4 unless Kun comes to Malachor V first. She can't afford to make the first move so must wait until he does. Else she can't set up an ambush. Concerning how Kun will get there, well taking a personal shuttle isn't such a good idea. Kun may be good but how good a pilot is he? Can he evade an entire fleet that may or may not be waiting for him? Will he take that risk?

 

I have been thinking, and I think the best plan of attack concerning Malachor V would be to take the Mandalorian Fleet to Malachor, and then have he and his Brotherhood (roughly 20 Sith adepts) invade the planet via Basilisk War Droids. They are highly maneuverable, heavily armoured and could operate in the vacuum of space. Perfect for landing on Malachor's surface. And I'm sure the Brotherhood and Kun could use the Force to protect them from the vacuum of space as well. Nonetheless, Traya won't be there.

 

Where will Traya be? Well as soon as she senses Kun approaching Malachor V she leave with Sion, some assassins and the entirety of her fleet, go mobile. Then destroy any vessels surrounding Yavin 4 and lie in ambush nearby. When Kun returns from his failed voyage she springs the trap and decimates his forces, and perhaps him with it. If he escapes to his temple, orbital bombardment. Well that is at least how I see Traya winning - not sure about Kun but I'm sure you can come up with something.

 

Just where will Traya be during the Battle of Yavin? The Mandalorian Fleet should be able to handle Traya's Fleet (Basilisks are very capable at taking out cruisers). If Traya's on Yavin, they won't bombard it because that will take out Traya as well. If she's on the Ravager, it will probably (I stress that as the Ravager is one tough ship) be destroyed by concentrated fire from the Mando fleet.

 

Here's a scenario for after Coruscant and Malachor. Exar Kun commands Ulic to regroup at Yavin for another attack on Xizor (Ulic having 'procured' the location Xizor's HQ from a lackey), and he returns with the Mando fleet. Ulic's fleet will be well underway by the time the Mando fleet heads out from Malachor.

 

Now, the Mando fleet is going to get there first no matter what. The Mando ships are very tough so they can take what the Ravager will dish out for a time. But Ulic's fleet will arrive mid-battle and allow their combined forces to destroy Traya's fleet or make them flee. Either way, her fleet will be ruined by the attack.

Out of curiosity, what would Traya be able to do using the Force and Kun's temples on Yavin IV? I know in some of the books Luke's apprentices (who are not nearly as trained in the Force as Traya would be) were able to use the temples to push away a fleet of Imperial ships. From that, I'd assume Traya could probably manage something at least as devastating to any of Kun's ships in the area. Is that a safe assumption? (asking because assumptions don't seem to go over well in these, lol )

Out of curiosity, what would Traya be able to do using the Force and Kun's temples on Yavin IV? I know in some of the books Luke's apprentices (who are not nearly as trained in the Force as Traya would be) were able to use the temples to push away a fleet of Imperial ships. From that, I'd assume Traya could probably manage something at least as devastating to any of Kun's ships in the area. Is that a safe assumption? (asking because assumptions don't seem to go over well in these, lol )

 

That was done by Dorsk 81 and it killed him.

Just where will Traya be during the Battle of Yavin? The Mandalorian Fleet should be able to handle Traya's Fleet (Basilisks are very capable at taking out cruisers). If Traya's on Yavin, they won't bombard it because that will take out Traya as well. If she's on the Ravager, it will probably (I stress that as the Ravager is one tough ship) be destroyed by concentrated fire from the Mando fleet.

 

Here's a scenario for after Coruscant and Malachor. Exar Kun commands Ulic to regroup at Yavin for another attack on Xizor (Ulic having 'procured' the location Xizor's HQ from a lackey), and he returns with the Mando fleet. Ulic's fleet will be well underway by the time the Mando fleet heads out from Malachor.

 

Now, the Mando fleet is going to get there first no matter what. The Mando ships are very tough so they can take what the Ravager will dish out for a time. But Ulic's fleet will arrive mid-battle and allow their combined forces to destroy Traya's fleet or make them flee. Either way, her fleet will be ruined by the attack.

There is one problem with this. Ulic is all the way in the Core on Coruscant. Yavin 4 is in the Outer Rim Territories. It would take 5 days or more for Ulic to get his fleet to Yavin 4. Not only would he therefore be far to late to join the battle, but he would have given Xizor a week to prepare his forces, and it would take another week to get to Mustafar. In such a time Xizor could have done all manner of things, including attack Yavin 4. Basically such a strategy would be unwise.

 

I think it comes down to a battle between Traya's fleet and Kun's Mandalorian Fleet. We don't really have any idea of numbers at least for Kun but we can look at how there ships match up

 

Traya's Fleet:

 

1 Centurion-class battlecruiser

 

1,200 metres

 

6 Medium turbolaser cannons

 

6 Ion cannons

 

6 Laser cannons

 

6 Tractor beam batteries

 

Proton torpedo launchers

 

96 Sith Interceptors

 

7+ Interdictor-class cruiser

 

600 metres

 

5 Medium turbolaser cannons

 

6 Laser cannons

 

3 Tractor beam batteries

 

4 Gravity well projectors

 

48 Sith interceptors

 

Exar Kun's Fleet:

 

Kyramud-type battleship

 

752 metres

 

25 Medium turbolasers

 

12 Medium ion cannons

 

10 Heavy concussion missile launchers

 

6 Tractor beam projectors

 

36 Starfighters

 

Basilisk War Droids

 

Shaadlar-type troopship

 

130 metres

 

10 Medium turbolasers

 

6 Medium ion cannons

 

10 Light concussion missile launchers

 

There are also other factors to consider. Kun has Basilik war droids will be extremely proficient in tearing at the hulls of Traya's fleet. Kun also has himself and his Brotherhood leading the assault who could presumably board their opponents ships and sabotage them from the inside. Or board the Ravager and kill Traya (if she is onboard). Kun will also have hoards of Massassi warriors on the ground, guarding his temple.

 

Traya has her Sith assassins, who could infiltrate the ships in the midst of the battle and sabotage them - having stealth capabilities would make a move more successful. To make this even more effective Traya could have the assassins board Kun's fleet before the battle above Malachor V. (Like Sion did with the Harbinger) and could turn one of Kun's capital ships against him. Traya will also have the element of surprise, and Kun's fleet would be operating at only two thirds of its strength, he would likely leave a small portion of his force behind on Yavin IV which Traya could eliminate before hand. Or Traya could literally drive one of her ships into Kun's ship kamikaze style (element of surprise would help with that.)

 

And I'm not sure if the Ravager would be so easily destroyed in the battle. Its possible but I think Traya will be down on the surface. And if Kun flees to the surface Traya can just fly back up, or just move. (Yavin IV is a big place)

There is one problem with this. Ulic is all the way in the Core on Coruscant. Yavin 4 is in the Outer Rim Territories. It would take 5 days or more for Ulic to get his fleet to Yavin 4. Not only would he therefore be far to late to join the battle, but he would have given Xizor a week to prepare his forces, and it would take another week to get to Mustafar. In such a time Xizor could have done all manner of things, including attack Yavin 4. Basically such a strategy would be unwise.

 

So Ulic will have to pursue Xizor to Mustafar. And procuring defenses is going to take some time. By the time Ulic arrives, Xizor will probably have mustered some defenses, but not enough to hold Ulic back.

 

I think it comes down to a battle between Traya's fleet and Kun's Mandalorian Fleet. We don't really have any idea of numbers at least for Kun but we can look at how there ships match up

 

Traya's Fleet:

 

1 Centurion-class battlecruiser

 

1,200 metres

 

6 Medium turbolaser cannons

 

6 Ion cannons

 

6 Laser cannons

 

6 Tractor beam batteries

 

Proton torpedo launchers

 

96 Sith Interceptors

 

7+ Interdictor-class cruiser

 

600 metres

 

5 Medium turbolaser cannons

 

6 Laser cannons

 

3 Tractor beam batteries

 

4 Gravity well projectors

 

48 Sith interceptors

 

Exar Kun's Fleet:

 

Kyramud-type battleship

 

752 metres

 

25 Medium turbolasers

 

12 Medium ion cannons

 

10 Heavy concussion missile launchers

 

6 Tractor beam projectors

 

36 Starfighters

 

Basilisk War Droids

 

Shaadlar-type troopship

 

130 metres

 

10 Medium turbolasers

 

6 Medium ion cannons

 

10 Light concussion missile launchers

 

 

Based off of the above stats, I would say Kun's fleet is superior. And with the Mandalorian emphasis on firepower, I feel the Mando ships could outgun the Interdictors. We should also remember that the Mandalorian fleet at this time is larger than the one used by Mandalore the Ultimate (IIRC).

 

There are also other factors to consider. Kun has Basilik war droids will be extremely proficient in tearing at the hulls of Traya's fleet. Kun also has himself and his Brotherhood leading the assault who could presumably board their opponents ships and sabotage them from the inside. Or board the Ravager and kill Traya (if she is onboard). Kun will also have hoards of Massassi warriors on the ground, guarding his temple.

 

Traya has her Sith assassins, who could infiltrate the ships in the midst of the battle and sabotage them - having stealth capabilities would make a move more successful. To make this even more effective Traya could have the assassins board Kun's fleet before the battle above Malachor V. (Like Sion did with the Harbinger) and could turn one of Kun's capital ships against him. Traya will also have the element of surprise, and Kun's fleet would be operating at only two thirds of its strength, he would likely leave a small portion of his force behind on Yavin IV which Traya could eliminate before hand. Or Traya could literally drive one of her ships into Kun's ship kamikaze style (element of surprise would help with that.)

 

And I'm not sure if the Ravager would be so easily destroyed in the battle. Its possible but I think Traya will be down on the surface. And if Kun flees to the surface Traya can just fly back up, or just move. (Yavin IV is a big place)

 

If Kun leaves a portion of the Mando fleet at Yavin, then Traya's fleet will still be damaged, weakening its overall strength. I have a feeling the Ravager would be the primary target of the Mandalorian fleet. The overall firepower of the Mandalorian fleet is greater than the firepower of Traya's fleet. Add in the Basilisks and Traya's fleet is in trouble.

 

The assassins could do some damage, but then Traya would be depriving herself of protection. Whether she is on the ground or on the Ravager, sending Assassins out will make her vulnerable. Also, if Traya attacks the planet, her forces will be defeated by the hordes of Massassi. So she would have to bombard the Massassi in order to gain victory there. But even if she does, like you said 'Yavin is a big place,' the Massassi will be difficult to root out.

 

If she's on the Ravager, Kun will board it and defeat her. If she's on the planet below, Kun will go down there and kill her. She will be forced to run or hide. And Kun would see her shuttle take off, so he will pursue her, or have some fighters or Basilisks take her shuttle out.

 

If she's on the Ravager, Kun will board it and defeat her. If she's on the planet below, Kun will go down there and kill her. She will be forced to run or hide. And Kun would see her shuttle take off, so he will pursue her, or have some fighters or Basilisks take her shuttle out.

 

I don't think Kun will have that easy of a time killing Traya. She was incredibly smart and if she chose to ambush him it would be in a situation in which she could win. Shw would be picking the situation; if she wasn't at an advatage she would flee. For the same reasons, Kun would never be able to fight her one-on-one. Instead he would also fight SIon and her most powerful students and maybe even some soldiers. His greater strenght in the force wouldn't matter.

 

Also her assassins could wreak some serious havoc on Kun's fleet. I also doubt that his apprentices would have an easy time fighting them. Traya's assassins became more powerful to match their opponents and specialized in killing force sensitives. So while Kun could beat them, they would be able to inflict massive casualties in an ambush; enough to even the odds atleast.

So Ulic will have to pursue Xizor to Mustafar. And procuring defenses is going to take some time. By the time Ulic arrives, Xizor will probably have mustered some defenses, but not enough to hold Ulic back.

Agreed.

Based off of the above stats, I would say Kun's fleet is superior. And with the Mandalorian emphasis on firepower, I feel the Mando ships could outgun the Interdictors. We should also remember that the Mandalorian fleet at this time is larger than the one used by Mandalore the Ultimate (IIRC).

I think you remember incorrectly. () Wookieepedia says this:

 

The Mandalorian Fleet was used throughout the history of the Mandalorians. The largest known fleet was the Neo-Crusader Fleet during the Mandalorian Wars.

 

Which makes sense otherwise Kun would have simply overrun the Republic and won easily. I'm really not sure the Mando fleet was that big... I mean the only mention of its usage I can find is when the Mandalorians invaded the Teta system and Ulic challenged Mandalore to a duel. In that battle I reckon there were about three Kyramud-type battleships (see this picture, notice three sets of blue rays) And maybe nine or ten Shaadlar-type troopships. I think we can probably assume this was the full force (maybe more if you disagree)

If Kun leaves a portion of the Mando fleet at Yavin, then Traya's fleet will still be damaged, weakening its overall strength. I have a feeling the Ravager would be the primary target of the Mandalorian fleet. The overall firepower of the Mandalorian fleet is greater than the firepower of Traya's fleet. Add in the Basilisks and Traya's fleet is in trouble.

Definitely true but look at it from this perspective, Traya is going to have to battle all of them eventually, but battling them in two parts is a lot easier. And yeah, the Ravager will probably be the main target, Traya would be safer on the ground.

The assassins could do some damage, but then Traya would be depriving herself of protection. Whether she is on the ground or on the Ravager, sending Assassins out will make her vulnerable. Also, if Traya attacks the planet, her forces will be defeated by the hordes of Massassi. So she would have to bombard the Massassi in order to gain victory there. But even if she does, like you said 'Yavin is a big place,' the Massassi will be difficult to root out.

 

If she's on the Ravager, Kun will board it and defeat her. If she's on the planet below, Kun will go down there and kill her. She will be forced to run or hide. And Kun would see her shuttle take off, so he will pursue her, or have some fighters or Basilisks take her shuttle out.

Don't forget Sion. But I agree, she definitely needs a space advantage to defeat the Massassi warriors. But wait a minute, if Traya defeats the defensive force before her ambush, she's got time to wipe them out then. Then she can hunker down in the temple. And also remember that as she will be the one doing the ambush, she can set the field i.e. go down to Yavin before Kun arrives. And her Force concealment will hide her from him.

 

I think it all depends on the space battle really. Traya will likely be down on the surface, and in order to kill her he will have to destroy her fleet first, or at least be winning the battle. And vice versa. But then again, will Traya be there at all? What if she leaves Sion to lead the battle, and sneaks back to Malachor V after Kun is gone? Or goes to the Tomb of Freedon Nadd on Dxun? (which I suppose is part of her powerbase as she controlled it at one point.) Again though, if Traya's forces are defeated over Yavin 4 she will be left with nothing and eventually lose. So again, depends on the space battle.

For the space battle I think Traya's assassins could gain control of some of Kun's ships. Even if they olny took a tiny portion of his fleet, having your own ships turn on you would be harful to morale. In addtion, since Kun wouldn't be expecting it, they could inflict a large amount of damage. With luck this could even trow Kun's fleet into dissaray. If Traya had a good plan she should be able to win. Edited January 27, 2013 by cjlcw

Agreed.

 

So we have eliminated Xizor, then?

 

I think you remember incorrectly. () Wookieepedia says this:

 

The Mandalorian Fleet was used throughout the history of the Mandalorians. The largest known fleet was the Neo-Crusader Fleet during the Mandalorian Wars.

 

Which makes sense otherwise Kun would have simply overrun the Republic and won easily. I'm really not sure the Mando fleet was that big... I mean the only mention of its usage I can find is when the Mandalorians invaded the Teta system and Ulic challenged Mandalore to a duel. In that battle I reckon there were about three Kyramud-type battleships (see this picture, notice three sets of blue rays) And maybe nine or ten Shaadlar-type troopships. I think we can probably assume this was the full force (maybe more if you disagree)

Definitely true but look at it from this perspective, Traya is going to have to battle all of them eventually, but battling them in two parts is a lot easier. And yeah, the Ravager will probably be the main target, Traya would be safer on the ground.

 

Conflicting sources? Or simply ill interpretation on my part? Probably the latter. Though I will say that there are probably more than just three capital ships for the Mandos. They made several attacks before the Great Sith War, so there could be more.

 

Don't forget Sion. But I agree, she definitely needs a space advantage to defeat the Massassi warriors. But wait a minute, if Traya defeats the defensive force before her ambush, she's got time to wipe them out then. Then she can hunker down in the temple. And also remember that as she will be the one doing the ambush, she can set the field i.e. go down to Yavin before Kun arrives. And her Force concealment will hide her from him.

 

I think it all depends on the space battle really. Traya will likely be down on the surface, and in order to kill her he will have to destroy her fleet first, or at least be winning the battle. And vice versa. But then again, will Traya be there at all? What if she leaves Sion to lead the battle, and sneaks back to Malachor V after Kun is gone? Or goes to the Tomb of Freedon Nadd on Dxun? (which I suppose is part of her powerbase as she controlled it at one point.) Again though, if Traya's forces are defeated over Yavin 4 she will be left with nothing and eventually lose. So again, depends on the space battle.

 

Sion will be of little issue, as Kun can simply incapacitate him with Sith Magic or a Force Blast. He can be incapacitated, which will allow Kun to engage Traya at his leisure.

 

Bombarding the planet risks leaving survivng Massassi, and Kun could arrive while they are bombarding the planet, which gives him the element of surprise (or evens it out ). And if Traya decides to invade Yavin, she risks utter defeat as the Massassi hordes have dealt with a combined army of Jedi and Republic troops.

 

We should also remember that the Ravager and four Interdictors held a stalemate with four Hammerhead cruisers (which are much weaker than the Kyramud). So three Kyramud, (say about) ten Shaadlars, and the Basilisks should do well.

 

Traya can run as much as she wants, but once her fleet is gone, she's done. And Kun can make a tactical retreat and regroup with the (presumably) successful Tetan Navy and return to finish off whatever is left of Traya's fleet.

For the space battle I think Traya's assassins could gain control of some of Kun's ships. Even if they olny took a tiny portion of his fleet, having your own ships turn on you would be harful to morale. In addtion, since Kun wouldn't be expecting it, they could inflict a large amount of damage. With luck this could even trow Kun's fleet into dissaray. If Traya had a good plan she should be able to win.

 

Looking at the Mando ships, I don't see a way for the assassins to board them. I don't see any hangars on it, so where do they board it? Looking at pictures, it seems they open up to allow fighters and War Droids out.

 

And on another note, the Kyramuds carry 3 Shaadlars so add nine more to my scenario Beni.

 

Edit: I just looked through my guide to vehicles and vessels and the Kyramud isn't in there.

 

So judging from the pictures on Wookieepedia, I would say that the kyramud opens up to allow ships and War droids out.

Edited January 27, 2013 by Aurbere

We should also remember that the Ravager and four Interdictors held a stalemate with four Hammerhead cruisers (which are much weaker than the Kyramud). So three Kyramud, (say about) ten Shaadlars, and the Basilisks should do well.

If your referring to the Battle of Telos IV then you are again somewhat mistaken (Oh Aurbere ) There were Four hammerheads but also 6 Foray-class blockade runners as well as an additional complement of starfighters. Led by renowned Admiral Carth Onasi. And even then the Republic fleet would have lost if the Ravager had not been destroyed. We also have to consider there would be more Interdictors in this battle. Roughly about 10. (There were 6+ in the Battle of Telos - and we know Sion had 1, it also says this was what was left of the fleet indicating there where more. 3 more seems reasonable, dispute this if you wish)

 

I'll leave others to debate your other points. However yes the Kyramuds carried Shaadlars but its obvious that those Shaadlars we saw in the picture where deployed by the Kyramuds, not already there. So thats 3 Kyramuds and 9 Shaadlars. I'm not sure if there were actually more, the Mando's where on a crusade remember, I only think they struck at one place at at time, rather than multiple fronts. Although they may have 1 or 2 in reserve... but they would probably be defending Mandalore, or simply remain in reserve.

 

We also have to consider fighters. Kun would have about 100+ (not including Basiliks) but Traya has roughly 550 which could overwhelm the Basilisk war droids.

If your referring to the Battle of Telos IV then you are again somewhat mistaken (Oh Aurbere ) There were Four hammerheads but also 6 Foray-class blockade runners as well as an additional complement of starfighters. Led by renowned Admiral Carth Onasi. And even then the Republic fleet would have lost if the Ravager had not been destroyed. We also have to consider there would be more Interdictors in this battle. Roughly about 10. (There were 6+ in the Battle of Telos - and we know Sion had 1, it also says this was what was left of the fleet indicating there where more. 3 more seems reasonable, dispute this if you wish)

 

I'll leave others to debate your other points. However yes the Kyramuds carried Shaadlars but its obvious that those Shaadlars we saw in the picture where deployed by the Kyramuds, not already there. So thats 3 Kyramuds and 9 Shaadlars. I'm not sure if there were actually more, the Mando's where on a crusade remember, I only think they struck at one place at at time, rather than multiple fronts. Although they may have 1 or 2 in reserve... but they would probably be defending Mandalore, or simply remain in reserve.

 

We also have to consider fighters. Kun would have about 100+ (not including Basiliks) but Traya has roughly 550 which could overwhelm the Basilisk war droids.

 

Yeah, you're right. I was about to edit that post. Silly me

 

Well then, Kun will have to retreat and regroup with Ulic. I have a feeling the Tetan Navy in combination with the Mandalorian fleet could handle Traya's fleet. Obviously Traya's fleet has more firepower, but when a squadron of Chaos Fighters can take out or severely cripple cruisers, you see Kun's fleet catch up.

 

Edit: Again, though, the exact numbers of Kun's fleet are unknown. But we should note that the Krath were fighting battles across the galaxy, so it is large.

Edited January 27, 2013 by Aurbere

Yeah, you're right. I was about to edit that post. Silly me

 

Well then, Kun will have to retreat and regroup with Ulic. I have a feeling the Tetan Navy in combination with the Mandalorian fleet could handle Traya's fleet. Obviously Traya's fleet has more firepower, but when a squadron of Chaos Fighters can take out or severely cripple cruisers, you see Kun's fleet catch up.

 

Edit: Again, though, the exact numbers of Kun's fleet are unknown. But we should note that the Krath were fighting battles across the galaxy, so it is large.

 

How could Kun retreat; couldn't the interdicters use their gravity well generators to hold his fleet in system. If that's the case Kun wouldn't stand a chance.