1. I feel that my class is perceived by others as it would have no identity other than having intercede, i think ppl know that my beloved jug doesnt have anything "unique" to it and everything that a jug does another class can do it better.

2. I feel that my jug is missing something i play as a tank and i think ive said this more than enough in the past but i feel as if my jug was a low class sith outside some cutscenes and its reliance on white damage its a curse in pvp.

Playing as a tanking juggernaut.

1. How do you think your Juggernaut spec is perceived by other classes?

Perceived as the least useful of the 3 tank classes due to the lack of a pull ability and almost no ranged abilities. Considered the standard melee tank from every MMO that's ever existed.

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

Having a 50 juggernaut and a 50 vanguard, I feel like I'm missing some important tools when I'm playing as a jugg tank. I feel helpless trying to tank multiple mobs at once and in fights that require mobility I really miss the ranged abilities available to other tank classes.

1. How do you think your Juggernaut spec is perceived by other classes?

Melee tank - I don't think many people consider Juggernaut DPS (positively or negatively). Has trouble with multiple mobs, does fine against single target bosses.

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

Tank specced - Patch 1.3 made group aggro possible, however, keeping group aggro is still limited to 3 abilities, 2 have 10+s cooldowns. 1.3 changes are adequate but keeping group aggro is still tough as well as boring. AoE radius is small, so using force push necessary to tighten up ranged mobs. Single target tanking is fine.

DPS (vengeance) specced - Parity with other DPS classes for single target - perhaps even a little ahead of some classes. Lags in Area of Effect DPS, but this is rarely is an issue in either PvE or PvP.

I think Immortal is perceived as a liability compared to other tanks. Their lower threat, especially AOE threat makes DPS classes rather group with the other tanks.

I feel like Immortal is good as long as DPS knows that they need to watch their threat. This does not often work in PUG groups. I feel like it needs another Rage consuming skill to use during long fights when you end up with more Rage than you can really use.

.

 

Here are the two questions that we’d like to ask (please only post about specific specs that you actively play, and don’t forget to tell us which one you’re talking about!):

 

1. How do you think your Juggernaut spec is perceived by other classes?

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

1. DPS:I am viewed as a liability by pugs in certain FP and against some OP bosses and that my dps is substandard. Tank speced: I am viewed at the bottom of teh tanking classes

2.DPS: I see my rage specced juggs as having a lot of utility in pulling trash and bursting down mobs. Bosses however have too many abilities and hinder my burst by having me waste a smash. Certain encounters also mitigate my burst by making me wait to use it against higher priority targets. Bombers vs trandoshans vs Kephess

Tank: I feel as if I can hold my own vs any boss/mob due to our CDs I feel as if sonic scream needs to be looked at .

1. How do you think your Juggernaut spec is perceived by other classes?

As a tank I think others see me as unable to tank groups effectively, difficulty surviving hard hitting bosses like Kephess, and that I require overgeared healers to keep me up even on trash.

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

Much the same as others; I dont hold aggro on groups, I take huge amounts of damage when other tanks dont, I have a hard time positioning since I need to LOS. The only time I feel really comfortable with my ability to tank is one on one, I realize this is the main purpose of my tank, but I feel that a touch more utility would do wonders. More aoe threat generation, less reliance on auto attack, better damage mitigation or scaling mitigation with gear. A CC would be nice, marauders have one, why dont we?

Its not the easiest tank class to play, in fact its the most difficult, however I feel that we are given a bad rap by inept and or lazy players.

I've rarely ran as DPS, when I have my numbers just dont compare to pure dps or even hybrid dps classes, its a shame that the class that was meant to feel the most Star Warsesque is the one with the least utility.

1) Like others I feel like we are perceived as the weakest tank. Overgeared for a fight, I still have had healers complain that I was too squishy. (i.e. the offtank on Kephess.)

2) I think Jugg tanks work well for highly skilled players (maybe personal conceit) but that the margin for error is extremely slim. If I don't do my taunts just right or abilities just right I can completely screw up a spread out group of mobs. Also have trouble with agro when paired with well geared DPS if my "rotation" isn't exceptionally tight.

Addendum for 1 - PVE DPS - I think others also perceive us as weak, and there are fights where being melee is a liability. If you are a liability and "weak" you aren't wanted.

I play a Juggernaut Tank, 31/7/2.

There's only a couple things I think need to be changed

1: Remove Intimidation and put Revenge in its place.

2: To replace it, add something like Deafening Defense, except it would make Enraged Defense cost 1>2 less Rage, and remove the threat dumping. Also make it decrease damage taken by 5-10%.

3: Dark Blood should decrease all damage by 2>4%. And Endure Pain should not make you lose health, unless you're over max in which case, if it ends while you're over max it should bring you back down to max health

18 Immortal, 23 Vengeance

1) I think this spec is perceived as a capable tank in PvE and PvP. Some people know that this is a strong 1v1 spec in PvP (with mostly DPS gear), but this spec might be best known for being a great Huttball carrier.

2) I think this spec is great in PvE. I also like this spec in unranked PvP. However, in ranked PvP, I feel like my lower DPS (relative to Assassins) may be a liability.

Rage

1) This is percieved as a weak spec in PvE. On the other hand, it's considered overpowered by many in PvP as a result of the massive Smash hits.

2) I think it's a decent spec in PvP (haven't played it in PvE since 1.2), but the bottom of the tree still forces you to spend points in virtually worthless skills (Vicious Slash, Force Choke pushback, ect.)

I play a hybrid of Vengeance and Rage. (Damage role)

1) I think most people consider Rage to be overpowered, especially in PvP, and Vengeance to be underpowered.

2) Rage spec has amazing AoE damage and very good single target as well; I've seen Juggernauts consistently put out more DPS than a well geared Marauder or Sniper on Explosive Conflict Hard Mode, though of course some is due to player not spec. I play a hybrid spec because I PvP a lot - I really love the big Smashes from Rage combined with the rage generation of Vengeance.

1. How do you think your Juggernaut spec is perceived by other classes?

Since 1.3 and the threat increase, there is more respect for the Juggernaut in the tanking role. I still have trouble with some Campaign geared DPS classes. The only Juggernauts in PVE are generally tank spec'd because the DPS spec's are not viable for the enrage timers of current Hard/Nightmare Mode content.

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

I really want to DPS in this class, it seems like it "should" be really powerful. Even in the best gear, the DPS of Juggernaut is at least 20 percent below what other classes can do. I would really like to see this changed.

1. How do you think your Juggernaut spec is perceived by other classes?

- Even fully campaign geared, I would be the last choice for Hard Mode Denova if 2 other similarly geared classes were available due to the spikiness of Juggernaut tanks. We need more sustainable short-cooldown defensive abilities to lower our spikiness in end-game.

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

- Looking at parsers I feel we do the least damage of other tanks in endgame, we are the spikiest, and it seems all our good utility would-be tank abilities are in other trees or in the Marauder class. We have too simplistic un-tankish late-tier talents in the Immortal tree, i.e. Force Push cooldown. I think the marauder has better short-cooldown damage soaking abilities then the Juggernaut. Our internal/elemental resistance needs to be looked at as well, because most bosses deal this kind of damage. Overall I'm not too happy with our defensive capabilities being limited to just 2 cooldowns.

Rage:

1. How do you think your Juggernaut spec is perceived by other classes?

In PvP, a one trick pony, a class that outside its big crits offers nothing to PvP groups and is the easiest spec/class to lockdown and kill in the game

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

While I love rage I do feel like a bit of a Dinosaur/football player past his prime. While I can do very well with the spec I do feel like I am clutching on to a spec past its prime. The spec lacks any proper form of sustained dmg, it is far to squishy relative to classes that can do similar burst. It also has atrocious resource generation and management

Vengeance:

1. How do you think your Juggernaut spec is perceived by other classes?

I think people massively underrate Vengeance in what it can do, its started to however be massively respected in PvE by people how know

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

It does fantastic dmg in both PvE and PvP however it lacks the on demand burst that is sometimes called for in situations and at times I feel like a poor mans marauder; apart from my taunts and tanky aspects I feel they can do almost everything I can do better.

Compared to rage I feel Immortal and my ability to stance dance and off tank or carry the ball as well as a full on tank is fantastic

Thanks for taking the initiative to gather feedback Bioware. I will be providing feedback for all three 50s (juggernaut, powertech, mercenary).

Immortal PvE

1. How do you think your Juggernaut spec is perceived by other classes?

Gets the job done, but not the first choice... nor the second.

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

Immortal is a joke, I'm sorry. I run 18/23 for tanking HM EC, and 8/31/2 for tanking everything else (in soresu with tank gear and shield of course). Tank DPS tickles, and was further nerfed in 1.3. All the upper tiers in immortal need to be looked at seriously and we should get something valuable for our 31-point *crushing-blow-that-does-not-crush-too-hard*. Vengeance has better talents than immortal for *tanking* purposes. Many threads have been written on this subject, so I will not re-hash them here. We could use an endurance boost in our skill tree as well.

Vengeance PvE

1. How do you think your Juggernaut spec is perceived by other classes?

Not too bad for DPS. However why bring a juggernaut warrior, when you can bring a marauder with their superior DPS AND raid-wide benefits AND superior defensive skills as a dps?

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

Actually great fun to play, and great synergy with using the various abilities. However we could use some lovin... my suggestion is to make fury mechanics a baseline warrior abiltity. Our DPS could sure use the bloodthirst, and our tanks could sure use a good defensive usage of fury.

PvP

Great at Huttball, great at guarding healers and provide nice DPS without being overpowered and invincible like our brethren *cough* marauders *cough*.

I only PvE on my Juggernaut specced Immortal or hybrid-tank.

1. It's commenly known that Immortal's DPS are lower than that of other tanks, usually something not held against me, but it's still something that doesn't escape even the people that don't play the class.

Sometimes others overlook the recent add in AoE threat, a past weakness that's fixed.

I never had a problem with single target threat, knowing how it works and when to taunt in order to maintain aggro, sometimes people however expect me to lose the mob - I can only imagine because of previous encounters with less taunting Juggernauts.

I play an assassin tank to ... they're my 'active' twinks (as in I raid with them frequently) ... and I'm asked to help out the other 8-man main operation if they lack a tank and can choose freely - so I don't think anyone thinks there's a difference between me playing Darkness or Immortal.

2. The damage and as a result single target threat has to be looked at. The defensive cooldowns and mitigation are very nice and while I can't actively augment my survivability like an assassin I have to deal less with damage spikes in most fights.

Juggernaut is the best off-tank however, using Intercede on the main tank who then taunts the boss gives you another short CD defensive cooldown if you communicate sufficiently.

I love the animation of the character and it feels more sithy than the assassin.

Some armor options don't look to hot though ... this of course is highly subjective but I like my armor iconic, simple and without mich useless extra armor like gigantic shoulderpads etc.

Sonic Barrier absorb a little more damage or even better Foce Scream could have a lower cooldown for the spec, simply knowing you're actively boosting your mitigation is fun as a tank.

Enraged Defense should be augmented by the talent tree in a way that it doesn't drop threat anymore - it's a last resort cooldown as a tank and can be quite risky with strong damage dealers and impossible in encounters with threat drops.

And of course ... this probably also shows in your data ... Immortal's damage is behind a lot.

1. How do you think your Juggernaut spec is perceived by other classes?

I have no idea.

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

Immortal PvE: It feels like there are too many abilities to find room (and easily-accessible keybinds) for, too little damage (and thus too little threat), and too little AoE. Crushing Blow's AoE takes too much setup for an incredibly tiny radius and middling damage. If the stars align and I manage to get and keep aggro on everything I need to get and keep aggro on, it's extremely fun. More often than not, though, I'm running around like a chicken with its head cut off trying to keep track of all the chaos.

1. How do you think your Juggernaut spec is perceived by other classes?

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

1. Melee so not as good as ranged for tanking or dps. lots of utility in pvp, especially huttball. Annoying to kill.

2. I love the survivability but wish tanking was more viable in pvp. I love push and charge (and choke!) Two things I might focus on is the resolve for force charge and the balance between range having an advantage over melee classes.

1. How do you think your Juggernaut spec is perceived by other classes?

Overcrowded. Juggernauts are a dime a dozen, so if you're not tanking, you're unwelcome. Really, melee DPS in general is highly overpopulated, which I view as a genre-driven issue. Jedi/Sith are the coolest things in Star Wars, so everyone wants to be one.

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

I like playing my Juggernaut, but I feel there's too many 'conditional' buttons on my bar. I DPS as vengeance, and I've got 3 different rage dump abilities to weave together. You've got Force Scream, Impale and Shatter, and they all really do the same thing. Add in the 'if immobilized' and 'if disabled' strikes, and the 'if below 20% health' strike, and I find myself needing 4 extra fingers.

So I'd like to see fewer powers that are more flexilble/usable more often. Combine Shatter and Impale into one atttack that does good damage with a DOT component that's up every 4.5 seconds, instead of 2 marginally different attacks up every 9 seconds. The same goes for Vicious Kick and Pommel Strike. Randomize the animation if you want to have both looks. Right now there's too many buttons and not enough space in my UI to make good use of them.

I play Vengeance and Rage primarily

1. How do you think your Guardian spec is perceived by other classes?

I think most others consider DPS Juggernaut to be sub par compared to the other melee specs available in game. We are seen as tanks and damage soaker's in PvP. Rage is perhaps viewed with more respect due to its high burst in PvP. Vengeance is seen as somewhat of a liability .

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

I feel that Vengeance is not...for lack of a better word "complicated" enough. The rotation is overly simple and boring to perform. Something as simple as having procs to monitor (ie chance to proc a free Vicious Throw when ever you're impale deals damage for example) would go along way in increasing the fun factor.

Personally, for Rage spec I feel that reliance on Smash is letting it down. Keep the "build up" mechanic but give it a single target nuke as well as (or instead of Smash) so that Smash can be used for AoE.

For Dps In general I feel that the Juggernaut doesn't bring enough to a group, no utility like our marauder brethren can deliver. We are not worth brining.

Vengeance DPS (//)

As with other hybrid classes, you always feel that there is something to prove. More work has to be put it to excelling at your role when it feels that the 'pure' classes sing "Anything you can do, I can do better". The only true raid assistance we bring to the table is the ability to act as an emergency off-tank, but this is fraught with limitations (loss of all Rage when changing stances, difficulty of a non-Immortal Jugg to raise Rage while expending it to keep threat) and does not have the superior cooldown abilities brought by an Assassin or Marauder. Simply put, between the extra defensive abilities and raid utility (Shroud/Rez and Bloodthirst), unless the skill disparity is large there is little reason to take a Juggernaut over the other melee DPS classes.

Up-time disparity is our largest weakness when compared to other DPS classes, especially ranged. Nearly every boss encounter and a fair amount of trash places unequal burden upon melee in general. Running a damage parser it's easy to see the difference between an stationary/equal fight (combat dummies or the tanks in EC) and one where you are forced to spend a disproportionate amount of time chasing enemies/avoiding mechanics (such as Kephiss or the twins).

I understand that the 'melee hate' has been inherent in encounter design since time immemorial. Boss mechanics designed to hinder tanks effect melee dps and rarely ranged while effects that hinder range are usually raid-wide and hinder melee dps as well. The oft-used balance to this is to attempt to increase melee damage a bit in the hope that it all evens out but I don't think we've quite reached that balance yet. I've seen the 5% gap mentioned as the acceptable range that the Balance Team sets between 'top and bottom' dps classes. It's a fair compromise, but I fear it may be a 'dummy-meter' metric and not one based off of the up-time/down-time disparity in actual encounters.

To help close the gap? Perhaps a combination of changing boss mechanics to force ranged dps to move more often than they do, tuning up melee damage a bit, or decreasing the cooldowns of our one distance-closing move (Force Charge) or our one real ranged ability (Saber Throw). Force Scream/Vicious Throw are 'ranged' yes, but most mechanics will easily place you outside it's 10m range.

The last two options will likely have an effect on PvP I imagine, but since I'm not an active PvP'er I cannot comment. I give the suggestions only based on PvE experience.

Overall things are pretty well in-hand, but it weighs a bit knowing that, thanks to forces I cannot control, the best I can achieve is a certain percentage of what other classes in the same role can do. Thank you for opening these threads, hopefully something positive will come from them.

1. I Feel juggernaut is lacking something very signature move compared to other classes, For an example we got intercede and force push that's true. But something is still missing that make screams this is a juggernaut you are facing kind of offensive ability. But overall I am happy with the design in both rage and vengeance compared to marauder's own trees.

2. You got Shien form and all abilities perfectly fine both lore wise and gameplay wise. I got no single complaints at all and they feel unique as dmg dealers compared to other classes in both pvp and pve.

Playing as a DPS Jugg

1. How do you think your Juggernaut spec is perceived by other classes?

I was told by the top Raiding guild on my server (or one of the top), that they only take "Real DPS classes." I feel like everyone sees Juggs as ONLY tanks, even my guild has said that I'm the only DPS Jugg they've ever seen or had.

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

I really do think a DPS Jugg is the weak link, sure they can pull off average DPS, but on parsers and such you never see a Jugg stand out like an agent, Marauder, or Sorcerer does. I've thought about re-rolling for a Marauder or Agent, because I get laughed at so much - but I've just put so much work into my Jugg that leaving would probably make me want to quit instead.

I play immortal 31/6/4 tank, and while our threat gen seems the same to me after 1.3 I think due to the damage reduction we suffered, pvp is where I feel our main issues are.

1) I think other class's see my class as a none-threat in pvp, while harder to kill then some class's we are just no threat damage wise to anyone.

2) Although the one thing we excel at seems to be guarding a healer, the only time my jugg/tank feels epic is when I'm carrying the ball in huttball the rest of the time when trying to attack some one it feels like we just being kept out of arms reach and not contributing to the fight.

Before 1.3 when fighting it felt like you where tanking trying to get your 5 stacks of sunder on the enemy and building up to your big hit with crushing blow, that's not the case anymore.

I don't see how certain class's can tank just as well but still do massive damage and burn us down with easy.

Immortal spec

1- Traditional single target tank.

2- The recent loss of DPS is noticeable, but the control over multiple is also a bit improved. Could be improved a bit further with added radius to the 2 cooldown force abilities.