Two very simple changes.

1: Make Defense work against Force/Tech, aka Yellowdamage, not just White.

2: Make Shield work against Crits and not get completely bypassed by Autocrits.

Do these two simple things and Tank stats would become much more worthwhile in PvP.

I always liked how on WAR the tanks were impossibly hard to kill juggernauts. They protected other players, had strong defensives, and did low to mid range damage but never high dps. That's my favorite version of a MMO tank.

I would be all for a meta like that, but all we've seen over the past year is nerfs to DPS. That makes me question whether we truly need "more effective tanks" with less DPS - unless they properly balance DPS DCDs at the same time.

The problem we have now is stacked skanks that perform more effectively than sh**ty DPS in regs. A competent team with real DPS will destroy a makeup like that, but throw a typical pug regs group at them, and they get farmed while they can't kill anyone on the opposing team, healer or no healer. I can see how that could be bad for PVP as a whole because it discourages new players, although the effect is no different than a competent premade has on unorganized pugs. I guess it depends on frequency, i.e., when stacked skanks become more common than encountering a competent premade.

But in arenas, making tank stats more effective while nerfing tank DPS could be a disaster. It all depends on what they do to DPS DCDs. If those get nerfed properly, the resulting meta could be good. If not...see you in acid.

Do you want to see that during a voidstar?

I think a slight buff to resistance of some kind to yellow damage and internal damage may be called for but its not a must. I really think bioware should leave tanks alone and focus on bigger problems like the snipers and mercs first.

Its going to be a straight damage nerf. Im almost certain all they can afford to do at this point is paint elephants.

I think you are right, but I think it will be okay as long as they nerf DPS DCDs to make all of them perform at the level of DPS juggs and PTs. Overall TTK should be fine if they do that, and I for one would be happy to go back to 1 set of gear for my jugg.

I think you are right, but I think it will be okay as long as they nerf DPS DCDs to make all of them perform at the level of DPS juggs and PTs. Overall TTK should be fine if they do that, and I for one would be happy to go back to 1 set of gear for my jugg.

You mean the dps DCD balancing they havent managed in over a year? Sure, theyre finally going to get that right now.

As a guardian main since pre-2.0 ill be sticking with it. I predict an exodus of the less dedicated to concentration sents in 5.9.

You mean the dps DCD balancing they havent managed in over a year? Sure, theyre finally going to get that right now.

 

As a guardian main since pre-2.0 ill be sticking with it. I predict an exodus of the less dedicated to concentration sents in 5.9.

I'll stick with it too. What else is there for us die-hard Obi-wan Kenobi fans?

I'm skeptical too, but who knows? They might get it right. They said they wanted to get DPS numbers to their "target" so they could get actual data before moving on to utilities. *Maybe* they've done that. *Maybe* we'll see something that makes sense. *Maybe*

I'll stick with it too. What else is there for us die-hard Obi-wan Kenobi fans?

 

I'm skeptical too, but who knows? They might get it right. They said they wanted to get DPS numbers to their "target" so they could get actual data before moving on to utilities. *Maybe* they've done that. *Maybe* we'll see something that makes sense. *Maybe*

Honestly dps wise, the damage i think is perfectly fine. Its the DCD issue thats devastating.

For the obi wan kenobi class, its lacking in comparison to even our close cousins the sents. A focus guardian is literally a lesser concentration sent- damage, survivability, and arguably even utility.

Merc, sniper, mara need nerfing or guardian, sorc, shadow, pt need buffing, or some middle ground.

On the tank stat front, i just see no hope. Maybe im just a doomsdayer but if im right i predict only the diehards (and bads) will be left on guardians.

On the tank stat front, i just see no hope. Maybe im just a doomsdayer but if im right i predict only the diehards (and bads) will be left on TANK guardians.

Let me fix that for you 😉

I think dps guardians are mostly fine at the moment. They could use a little bit more mobility because of all the mez, slows, stuns, resistance and extra speed abilities. They are the least mobile class in the game, even snipers have more mobility to move around if they want to.

I don’t propose predation or anything stupid like that, but maybe some small passives on one or two abilities that would then increase speed a little.

Let me fix that for you 😉

 

I think dps guardians are mostly fine at the moment. They could use a little bit more mobility because of all the mez, slows, stuns, resistance and extra speed abilities. They are the least mobile class in the game, even snipers have more mobility to move around if they want to.

I don’t propose predation or anything stupid like that, but maybe some small passives on one or two abilities that would then increase speed a little.

name one way a mara isn't superior. i'll be on guardian one way or another as it's been my main class for literal years. but a mara atm is strictly superior in anything except tank.

If it's a straight damage nerf to tanks than at least give us access to 248 B mods and the high endurance enhancements (can't remember name). Doubt they will though.

oh but we already do because command crates!

/sarcasm

name one way a mara isn't superior. i'll be on guardian one way or another as it's been my main class for literal years. but a mara atm is strictly superior in anything except tank.

Maybe they are in ranked, but I can hold my own against 90% or Mara’s in regs, so I’ll be on my Jugg or Guardian regardless. I don’t think they are that far behind. They do the same amount of damage “if” a Jugg can stay on target. Because as I said, juggs main weakness is mobility. Not defence (in regs) and not Dps.

Maybe they need some anti focus ability for Ranked because they are the only class that doesn’t have one. But dps is good and buffing defence would make them OP.

Maybe they are in ranked, but I can hold my own against 90% or Mara’s in regs, so I’ll be on my Jugg or Guardian regardless. I don’t think they are that far behind. They do the same amount of damage “if” a Jugg can stay on target. Because as I said, juggs main weakness is mobility. Not defence (in regs) and not Dps.

Maybe they need some anti focus ability for Ranked because they are the only class that doesn’t have one. But dps is good and buffing defence would make them OP.

The point isn't that guardians can't do well in the right hands. I go vigi on mine on the odd occasion someone else wants to tank, and destroy stuff perfectly fine.

Bear in mind as well I'm a tank normally, and to one of the better known healers from harbinger. My character is probably the second most focused person on our team because it's assumed im the tank. Focus is not something guardians handle well (ironically enough). So its possible my situation is skewed to where I am trying to work the class with its worst possible scenario.

We are all of course entitled to our opinions, and in mine the super mobile glass cannon class is supposed to be the maras. They should be the best damage, with super mobility, but squishy once you pin them down. This is, in my opinion, why maras do not get self heals. I would like it to be knownhow overrated the guardian self heal is in comparison to actual DR based DCDs. Especially with the horrendous scaling/ninja nerf that came with 5.0, and since it was never fixed, i can only assume was intended.

Guardians are the heavy armor wearing bulwarks of the battlefield. We should be lower damage, lower mobility, but better survivability. Again, this is all my interpretation and opinion. The very name "juggernaut" implies the slow but strong behemoth. This is reflected in the fact that, as you yourself say, we have the lesser mobility. The issue, in my opinion, is we are also strictly worse in both damage and survivability. As i believe maras are intended and should be the top damage dealers, i therefore believe we should have the better sirvivability. Add to that things like force camo and trancendence and mara has arguably better utility as well. I say arguably because dps has taunt (which has no repercussions) and technically guard (though if I'm tanking and catch some squishy dps trying to guard everyone while getting annhilated, prepare for me to rage on you).

I don't play guardians to be a lesser mara. As it stands currently guardians are literally a poor mans sentinel. I'm just too devoted to the class to change. If i wanted to duel wield i would have a long time ago.

If the state of things isnt obvious this came up in a tanking thread because, if they do destroy pvp tanking in 5.9, there is literally no reason to run a guardian over a sentinel. A similar argument can be made for PT/merc. Since sorc dps is the butt of swtor jokes and because of stealth, I'd argue dps shadows main competition isn't sage, but operatives. Who i cant peg as well. Ive seen really good ones and really bad operatives; there doesn't seem to be much average.

TLDR: the point is, i hang around guardian when i dps because im incredibly devoted to it. Sentinel is the strictly better class in every aspect: dps, survivability, mobility, and arguably even utility.

Let me fix that for you 😉

 

I think dps guardians are mostly fine at the moment. They could use a little bit more mobility because of all the mez, slows, stuns, resistance and extra speed abilities. They are the least mobile class in the game, even snipers have more mobility to move around if they want to.

I don’t propose predation or anything stupid like that, but maybe some small passives on one or two abilities that would then increase speed a little.

This isnt being an elitist, or dissing on regstars because I am one, but balancing this game around regular warzones in their current state is pointless. You can make any spec viable in regs nomatter how **** it is because the average team you face in regs is so unorganized and clueless they cannot exploit weaknesses of any kind.

Dps jugg needs some serious love. If you dont believe me, go play 100 matches of solo ranked as a dps jugg and see how that goes for you.

This isnt being an elitist, or dissing on regstars because I am one, but balancing this game around regular warzones in their current state is pointless. You can make any spec viable in regs nomatter how **** it is because the average team you face in regs is so unorganized and clueless they cannot exploit weaknesses of any kind.

 

Dps jugg needs some serious love. If you dont believe me, go play 100 matches of solo ranked as a dps jugg and see how that goes for you.

The problem is ranked and regs are two different formats. Usually what works in one, makes the other one OP or useless. This is why we don’t have balance. Arena can only accommodate 4 people on the team and the combinations from 24 specs is a lot to balance around a team of only 4 players.

It makes more sense to balance around 8 players because there are 8 advanced classes. Ideally we would still have ranked 8 man to balance around, but of course we don’t.

Because we have these two formats of objective and arena, balance is impossible across all classes and specs. It’s a pipe dream people wish for. So what happens is a bunch of people play enough to work out the top 4 best cookie cutter specs to play in arena and they become the FOTM classes in both formats.

Of course there will still be some other viable specs, because player skills aren’t equal and some people can play the worst spec in the game and make it OP. There will also be some other specs that are close to being in the top 4 and they will also be seen as viable. You also have classes that do extremely well if they have a trinity team.

Remember, what works in team ranked, doesn’t always work in solo ranked or regs. Essentially there really is three formats to balance around and not just the two I said.

From my point of view, it makes sense to balance around the format that the most amount of people play. Ranked is played by less people than regs. This obviously isn’t perfect.

It’s too late in this games limited remaining life span for them to go changing things majorly, they just don’t have the funds. But if they did, I would suggest they have a special utility tree for Ranked and balance pve and pvp separately.

The problem is ranked and regs are two different formats. Usually what works in one, makes the other one OP or useless. This is why we don’t have balance. Arena can only accommodate 4 people on the team and the combinations from 24 specs is a lot to balance around a team of only 4 players.

Its not ranked that makes guardians useless, nor am i even claiming uselessness. Im saying totally outclassed. All we have that maras dont is the ability to tank. So unless youre a diehard like me, why would you not just go learn the better class?

It makes more sense to balance around 8 players because there are 8 advanced classes. Ideally we would still have ranked 8 man to balance around, but of course we don’t.

Because we have these two formats of objective and arena, balance is impossible across all classes and specs. It’s a pipe dream people wish for. So what happens is a bunch of people play enough to work out the top 4 best cookie cutter specs to play in arena and they become the FOTM classes in both formats.

I avoided ranked as soon as i got my mats (despite having what im told is a reasonable rating) so i prefer not to talk about it. Quite frankly, i just dont like the arena format.

As far as fotm rerollers, well with over a year of the same issues seemingly being ignored, yeah. People are going to swap to what is most viable. Which is entirely the point i was making. From a dps players perspective, unless youre attached to the class, why would you play a guardian over a sentinel? A sentinel hits harder, is less kitable, lives longer, and arguably has better team utility.

That is the real reason you see most guardians tanking.

Of course there will still be some other viable specs, because player skills aren’t equal and some people can play the worst spec in the game and make it OP. There will also be some other specs that are close to being in the top 4 and they will also be seen as viable. You also have classes that do extremely well if they have a trinity team.

Good players are good and bad players are bad. Duh.

Balancing around not a trinity is just dumb.

Either way my original point stands.

Remember, what works in team ranked, doesn’t always work in solo ranked or regs. Essentially there really is three formats to balance around and not just the two I said.

From my point of view, it makes sense to balance around the format that the most amount of people play. Ranked is played by less people than regs. This obviously isn’t perfect.

Most of the issues people have are the same regardless. As i said i feel guardians and sentinels have distinct design differences that are not being realized. This is true regardless of format. A sentinel is simply better in every category of measurement, in any format. Again, sent has better damage, survivability, mobility, and possibly team utility.

It’s too late in this games limited remaining life span for them to go changing things majorly, they just don’t have the funds. But if they did, I would suggest they have a special utility tree for Ranked and balance pve and pvp separately.

This is why i dont want them mucking with skanking.

If they cant afford (or more likely dont have the knowledge to) fix the underlying root cause, dont paint the elephant.

They havent figured out how to fix mercs in over a year.

They havent figured out how to pigeon hole the dps specs into the categories they defined in something like 6 months to a year.

And theyre going to fix skanking?

Call me skeptical.

Id much rather they address the elephants in the room than make seperste trees for ranked and unranked pvp.

Pvp and pve whatever, id still rather they fix the elephants in the room.

Arenas was always a dumb niche format anyways, most people dislike it and ranked has never been very popular in this game. For the most part its always been 2 metas, hard swap where whoever times their CC is better and dot spread/pressure where you just clump things up and spam aoe, and because the amount of players who participate has always been abysmal, you either get team ranked with the same few teams constantly playing each other with the best ones becoming defined and others rarely queueing, or solo where all sorts of BS makes rank there almost meaningless.

The problem is 8v8 ranked came at a time when subs were already bleeding out, so they went to a smaller format to coax the player base into participating since its difficult to organize 8 (and 8v8 solo ranked never would have taken off).

The unfortunate thing is, the PvP in this game in the regular 8v8 warzones, is actually pretty fun. It was one of the few things people really liked at launch, and even the devs were taken back by it, they didn't expect the player base to enjoy the PvP so much.

But they didn't emphasize it enough, Ilum was broken and unfinished, the engine chokes and dies when too many players/effects are on screen at once, they couldn't produce story and raid content fast enough to maintain subs at endgame, and the rest is history, and now the game's carcass is held afloat by cartel whales, people unwilling to let go of ingame friendships, and diehard Star Wars fans who know they have very little else to go to get their Star Wars fix.

Bleh.

It seems to me that everytime they change stats to balance PVP, it just seems to create an OP class or kills the viability of another. They nerfed sorcs and PT DPS so much that they are basically useless in PVP. As far as the changes that all PVP players want well you have to consider PVE players. These changes usually impact both sides.Also this leads to alot of people rolling the flavor of the week class and unbalancing combat. There has got to be a better way to balance PVP without creating or destroying a class.

This is why i keep saying: if you're too incompetent to fix the issue leave it alone.

They need to nerf overpowered healers if they are to buff tank's defensives.

This I agree on. When you have a Mara and a semi decent Jugg unable to kill a Sorc healer, there is something wrong.

All I do in objective pvp is focus the healers on my Jugg or Mara. I can literally pump 3 mil damage into a Sorc healer at over 3500, while also getting help from others and can’t kill a lot of them all match. It should not take half a team focusing 1 healer to kill them.

Add another one or two healers to the mix and it’s an absolute joke. If they won’t fix the OP healing, they need to make it so the most amount of healers a side can have is one.

Arenas was always a dumb niche format anyways, most people dislike it and ranked has never been very popular in this game. For the most part its always been 2 metas, hard swap where whoever times their CC is better and dot spread/pressure where you just clump things up and spam aoe, and because the amount of players who participate has always been abysmal, you either get team ranked with the same few teams constantly playing each other with the best ones becoming defined and others rarely queueing, or solo where all sorts of BS makes rank there almost meaningless.

 

The problem is 8v8 ranked came at a time when subs were already bleeding out, so they went to a smaller format to coax the player base into participating since its difficult to organize 8 (and 8v8 solo ranked never would have taken off).

 

The unfortunate thing is, the PvP in this game in the regular 8v8 warzones, is actually pretty fun. It was one of the few things people really liked at launch, and even the devs were taken back by it, they didn't expect the player base to enjoy the PvP so much.

 

But they didn't emphasize it enough, Ilum was broken and unfinished, the engine chokes and dies when too many players/effects are on screen at once, they couldn't produce story and raid content fast enough to maintain subs at endgame, and the rest is history, and now the game's carcass is held afloat by cartel whales, people unwilling to let go of ingame friendships, and diehard Star Wars fans who know they have very little else to go to get their Star Wars fix.

 

Bleh.

I think if they had made the 8 man ranked queue the same as you queue for regs, it would have worked. Then you could still have premades and solo players together. It failed because you had to find 8 skilled players of the right classes to make a premade of 8 people. Solo or casual players were locked out. It also became the domain of only a few teams because there was no random variety available like you have in regs. If they had made it like regs, you wouldn’t have had any of those problems and it would have worked.

I think that is why they added a solo queue for arena. Otherwise, why add a solo queue at all. Its obvious they recognised the problem of even forming 4 man premade teams. So why didn’t they try a solo queue for 8 man?