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Ranged facetanking melee

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Ranged facetanking melee

Jinre_the_Jedi's Avatar


Jinre_the_Jedi
03.28.2019 , 03:11 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by merovejec View Post
When you play dot sin you do have heals! A well played (not focused) dot sin can turn the tide of the match. You can compare my heals and the other sin in my group and the dmg done if I dotspread against a melee team.
Surely you see how using a picture which shows you not being focused, which is an ideal but unlikely circumstance, sets a false base line for others as far as what to expect when performing under legitimate ranked strategies from the enemy team, where the Hatred sin is recognized and focused/pressured accordingly?

Aside from that, I would agree with your assessment that of the three ranged classes, Sorc is the easiest to eliminate if they attempt to face tank. That being said, merc and sniper can't really consistently face tank you, they do need to kite occasionally. I think that your opinions on the skill set required of a sniper to succeed may also be off a bit, because a sniper who is face tanking like a merc won't put out the best results compared to someone who is getting up to reset their Ballistic Damper stacks and re-positioning throughout the fight to best take advantage of their abilities.

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
03.28.2019 , 06:25 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by varietasplus View Post
Would be nice with upcoming patch 6.0 if ranged classes would at least provide the illusion of not having good defense, mobility and equivalent damage output as a melee class at the same time. Makes melee inferior, you know. Current state of snipers and sorc DPS is beyond absurd, they don't even bother to move. And there are the mercs with 3 lives. Playing melee nowaways seems pretty masochistic. Working as intended, I guess.
Sorcs DPS? Are you sure you are playing 5.x version of swtor? Defence is good, but dps output is rubbish

EmperorRus's Avatar


EmperorRus
03.29.2019 , 01:47 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
Defence is good
...from a "Warzone" standpoint? Sure. Arenas? I wouldn't say so.

varietasplus's Avatar


varietasplus
03.29.2019 , 02:22 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
Sorcs DPS? Are you sure you are playing 5.x version of swtor? Defence is good, but dps output is rubbish
Saying it is rubbish is an overstatement, but damage output is undeniably inferior to most classes. Nevertheless, the class survives longer in 4 DPS SR than any SW/JK or VG/PT and their skill rotation can provide an unpleasant burst at a critical moment.

And that is the point: you yourself claim that defence is good. The class also has mobility, ranged attack and self-heal with Phase Walk and Force Barrier. Do you really expect them to be on par with melee DPS in terms of damage? What good a melee would be then?

It is not about sage DPS underperforming. The problem is that other ranged classes are overperforming. PVP/PVE balance could be easily resolved if passive damage increase was among the utilities, so every PVPer had to choose between damage output or mobility/defence/self-heal, not having all of those as opposed to melee.

Metthew's Avatar


Metthew
03.29.2019 , 06:55 AM | #15
Lightning sorcerer is a top tier spec guys, what are you all talking about? It just doesn't "facetank".
Erhart / Wilhemine | Darth Malgus | <Take a Seat>

JediMasterAlex's Avatar


JediMasterAlex
03.29.2019 , 07:18 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by varietasplus View Post
And that is the point: you yourself claim that defence is good. The class also has mobility, ranged attack and self-heal with Phase Walk and Force Barrier. Do you really expect them to be on par with melee DPS in terms of damage? What good a melee would be then?
Maras literally have better defense (stealth out and heal multiple times during a match), yet their damage output is much, much higher. Sure, they can't kite and self-heal during a fight, but if played properly, their survivability is greater than a madness sorc's, which is why maras are the second best pvp class.

Quote: Originally Posted by Metthew View Post
Lightning sorcerer is a top tier spec guys, what are you all talking about? It just doesn't "facetank".
There are barely any lightning sorcs on Star Forge that are any good, but even on DM I doubt it's "top tier". You would put it above mercs, maras, ops, and snipers?

merovejec's Avatar


merovejec
03.29.2019 , 07:20 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by JediMasterAlex View Post
There are barely any lightning sorcs on Star Forge that are any good, but even on DM I doubt it's "top tier". You would put it above mercs, maras, ops, and snipers?
The few people that play Lightning Sorcs on DM are very good with them.
Merovejec
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Metthew's Avatar


Metthew
03.29.2019 , 07:32 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by JediMasterAlex View Post
There are barely any lightning sorcs on Star Forge that are any good, but even on DM I doubt it's "top tier". You would put it above mercs, maras, ops, and snipers?
Lightning sorcerer is definitely above mara, operative and sniper, when played correctly. The class has great team utility, good pressure, and if focused, has great survivability because of all the DR.

Khaos is straight up godly on the class, though he doesn't deign to play the game that much these days. Kelevra thinks lightning is "boring", but at the beginning of the season he just placed his sorcerer top 5 (back then) and then stopped playing. Durmoth makes some questionable breaker choices I think, but you can watch him on twitch.tv/durmoth when he's online - he is top 2 right now and you can see directly how much the class can do by watching his stream.

Lyala was also streaming pushing three sorcerers / sages to top 3 by the end of last season - whatever your judgement of his rating is, as far as I can tell, those game were legit and he just was able to carry a lot of games with it. Marauder and sniper do not have that much carry potential.

If you were to ask for the power ratings (by class, depending on best spec available) in 4DPS games, I'd probably say it is:

Arsenal Merc ~ Lightning Sorc >~ Operative > Marauder ~= Sniper > Assassin > Juggernaut >>>>> PT

Presence of healer brings marauder to top tier and sniper second I think, and really boosts PT higher. Presence of tank AND healer both brings all classes about even.
Erhart / Wilhemine | Darth Malgus | <Take a Seat>

JediMasterAlex's Avatar


JediMasterAlex
03.29.2019 , 07:36 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Metthew View Post
Lightning sorcerer is definitely above mara, operative and sniper, when played correctly. The class has great team utility, good pressure, and if focused, has great survivability because of all the DR.

Khaos is straight up godly on the class, though he doesn't deign to play the game that much these days. Kelevra thinks lightning is "boring", but at the beginning of the season he just placed his sorcerer top 5 (back then) and then stopped playing. Durmoth makes some questionable breaker choices I think, but you can watch him on twitch.tv/durmoth when he's online - he is top 2 right now and you can see directly how much the class can do by watching his stream.
I don't think evaluating the spec just on the basis of how the very best players play it is very smart. Your 'when played correctly" should really be "when played exceptionally," because apparently only a handful of players in the entire game can do it. Whereas mara is far, far easier to play "correctly." Maybe lightning sorcs have a higher ceiling, but if you were to compare an average mara to an average lightning sorc, would your opinion be the same?

Metthew's Avatar


Metthew
03.29.2019 , 07:38 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by JediMasterAlex View Post
I don't think evaluating the spec just on the basis of how the very best players play it is very smart. Your 'when played correctly" should really be "when played exceptionally," because apparently only a handful of players in the entire game can do it. Whereas mara is far, far easier to play "correctly." Maybe lightning sorcs have a higher ceiling, but if you were to compare an average mara to an average lightning sorc, would your opinion be the same?
Sorry, I edited the post a bit because I didn't expect it to be read so quickly. But the average marauder and sniper are global material, just like the average merc and sorc, so I do not really care about average plays. Imbalance at the top level is arguably more important when looking at how the competition is being played out.

Some classes SHOULD be harder to play -- that's where the fun comes from.
Erhart / Wilhemine | Darth Malgus | <Take a Seat>