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This is a joke


TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
06.30.2019 , 07:30 PM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by Sir-steve View Post
originally I figured they were just jerks, now I suspect they're doing it as a form of win trading. They kick a non-grouped member, throw the match and thereby throw off suspicion for a loss. That's my theory anyway.
I guess that’s plausible

JediMasterAlex's Avatar


JediMasterAlex
06.30.2019 , 11:11 PM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
I guess that’s plausible
It's possible, but I kind of doubt it. Kicking players is pretty rare. There are two scenarios where I see kicking happen.

One is just when a certain player or players decide that a person is too bad to be in the queue. If the player being kicked is clearly trying to win and isn't saying anything to suggest that they aren't trying their best, then kicking that person is totally unjustified.

A second, related scenario is when a player is playing poorly and when confronted about it, they are either in complete denial about their bad play or they claim to be there "just for the mats." In those cases, kicking becomes increasingly justified in my opinion. I'll give an example. Yesterday there was a guardian tank in queue in solos on Star Forge. This tank refused to ever swap guard. He was told repeatedly, by several different players, sometimes with specific directions, how to guard swap. He wouldn't do it. For those not aware, a tank refusing to guard swap is like a dps refusing to do damage. It's not optional. He started telling people to stop telling him how to play and that he was there for crystals. Well, by the third match in a row of this, his team, including me, decided to kick him. Totally justified in my opinion. He was actively ruining games and he knew it. There's no place for that garbage in ranked.

So, sometimes kicking is uncalled for, and shouldn't be done. There certainly are real victims of it, and it sucks that that happens. But if you're just playing ranked for mats, and you don't know what you're doing, and you won't even listen to the most basic advice about how to play, then they were probably justified in kicking you.

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
06.30.2019 , 11:37 PM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by JediMasterAlex View Post
A second, related scenario is when a player is playing poorly and when confronted about it, they are either in complete denial about their bad play or they claim to be there "just for the mats." In those cases, kicking becomes increasingly justified in my opinion..
I totally understand this sentiment, but it's wrong. BW implicitly made it so when they created that asinine weekly for a monumental crystal. I'm with you. I think that's how it should be. But that is not how this season is "designed." BW wants ppl in there no matter how bad. As long as they're trying to win (not afking/throwing) I don't think there's anything you can do. And for those who don't try and are willing to lose 50 matches in a row, I mean...that's how I feel about <pvp guild> ignoring objectives in WZs. so part of me thinks "it serves you right" sort of thing (even though it usually hurts ppl who have nothing to do with whoever's ruining your pvp life).
Krack

JediMasterAlex's Avatar


JediMasterAlex
07.01.2019 , 08:53 AM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by foxmob View Post
I totally understand this sentiment, but it's wrong. BW implicitly made it so when they created that asinine weekly for a monumental crystal. I'm with you. I think that's how it should be. But that is not how this season is "designed." BW wants ppl in there no matter how bad. As long as they're trying to win (not afking/throwing) I don't think there's anything you can do. And for those who don't try and are willing to lose 50 matches in a row, I mean...that's how I feel about <pvp guild> ignoring objectives in WZs. so part of me thinks "it serves you right" sort of thing (even though it usually hurts ppl who have nothing to do with whoever's ruining your pvp life).
But the people I'm talking about aren't really trying to win, that's the point. Remember, I said "increasingly justified," meaning that you shouldn't automatically kick someone for being there for the mats. You can be there for the mats, and still be trying to win. And if you're playing really poorly, but you take on advice and try to do better, that's all I can ask. But when people sit there and just play terribly, and when they've been told how to play better, and they clearly don't care at all about whether they win or lose because they're just there for mats...that's unacceptable.

By the way, I've only participated in kicking about 3 or 4 people in hundreds and hundreds of matches over the last year or so. It's quite a rare thing for someone to be a bad enough person to justify doing it.

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
07.01.2019 , 12:22 PM | #35
well, maybe musco will chime in here, but I'm quite sure that ignoring "advice" from teammates isn't a reasonable excuse to kick someone from grp. they're just "taking longer to get the reward" than other players.

tbh, I would act like the sin (in my Q last week) did as well: he stated that he would continue to queue all night and nothing the guy[s] berating him said would stop him. all it takes is one person to flip out and it crystallizes the determination of the poor player to not cooperate. oh. they'll still try, but don't expect them to listen to your advice after you (or 2 other ppl next to you) just told him he's a sh*tter, never Q, and /quit life. honestly, what do ppl expect? and don't tell me that isn't what happens even when you're not the one doing it. I've been on the other end.
Krack

JediMasterAlex's Avatar


JediMasterAlex
07.01.2019 , 01:07 PM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by foxmob View Post
well, maybe musco will chime in here, but I'm quite sure that ignoring "advice" from teammates isn't a reasonable excuse to kick someone from grp.
That's not at all what I meant. Did you read my example? I'm not talking about subjective "advice." I'm talking about a tank that refused to ever swap guard. That is not an optional thing to do. A tank not guard swapping is like if a dps were to just run around the map using mobility abilities and emotes while doing literally 0 damage. That's the kind of play I'm talking about. I am NOT just talking about bad players. There are completely terrible players that queue all the time that I would never dream of kicking, because they're trying to play, they're just bad.

But a tank not guard swapping, and other equivalents, are not trying to win. The part about other players telling them repeatedly how to do basic things is just to prove that they are aware that they are not playing the game to a minimum standard of competence. Playing like that, when you must know better, is functionally indistinguishable from throwing, which surely is what the kick system is meant for. I'm not sure how else to explain it to you.

Quote: Originally Posted by foxmob View Post
tbh, I would act like the sin (in my Q last week) did as well: he stated that he would continue to queue all night and nothing the guy[s] berating him said would stop him. all it takes is one person to flip out and it crystallizes the determination of the poor player to not cooperate. oh. they'll still try, but don't expect them to listen to your advice after you (or 2 other ppl next to you) just told him he's a sh*tter, never Q, and /quit life. honestly, what do ppl expect? and don't tell me that isn't what happens even when you're not the one doing it. I've been on the other end.
That is such a childish attitude, and it is far, far worse behavior than mere trash talking. The people ruining games with that kind of stubborn, terrible attitude are the actual problem, not the "toxicity" from people playing to win.

Lhancelot's Avatar


Lhancelot
07.01.2019 , 01:49 PM | #37
Quote: Originally Posted by Sir-steve View Post
originally I figured they were just jerks, now I suspect they're doing it as a form of win trading. They kick a non-grouped member, throw the match and thereby throw off suspicion for a loss. That's my theory anyway.
Yep. There was a thread that was created by a guy complaining about being booted by groups to properly skew the matches for one side to win easily. Pretty sure it’s somewhere on the forums still.
The Revival of SWTOR: Petition for More Funding and Resources
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http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=959696

JediMasterAlex's Avatar


JediMasterAlex
07.01.2019 , 02:08 PM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by Lhancelot View Post
Yep. There was a thread that was created by a guy complaining about being booted by groups to properly skew the matches for one side to win easily. Pretty sure it’s somewhere on the forums still.
Maybe this is happening at off hours on EU servers. I wouldn't know. But I can say with a reasonable degree of confidence that this never happens on Star Forge during regular playing hours. And I believe the person who has talked about that is Mero, who gets kicked for other obvious reasons. Best to always take what he says with a huge grain of salt.

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
07.01.2019 , 02:24 PM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by JediMasterAlex View Post
That is such a childish attitude, and it is far, far worse behavior than mere trash talking. The people ruining games with that kind of stubborn, terrible attitude are the actual problem, not the "toxicity" from people playing to win.
So who's childish? The guy ignoring advice, be it good or bad, because he's being called names? Or the guys calling him names?

DavidAtkinson's Avatar


DavidAtkinson
07.01.2019 , 03:19 PM | #40
Again... one of those threads...

Ranked has always been full of people with horrible attitude and hostility towards beginners... No, mats aren't to blame here.

It was like this long before mats were added. And by the way, mats were added to make more people que and get to know ranked since the population is getting lower every season.