Is English your 8th language or something? All the entities with damage reflect abilities currently reflect DoT damage. And BW has made a habit of inserting descriptions of how abilities work that are diametrically opposed to how they actually work.

*** are you talking about? There is no class ability that reflects damage.

But the description for net specifically says DIRECT DAMAGE, not ALL DAMAGE. Learn2****ingreadyouscrub.

If you've ever played a melee, you must be a horrible one. Letting a Merc open up a 30m gap from melee range because he put a 50% snare on you? Horrible. A competent melee will be able to hit the Merc for the full 9 second duration of Electro Net, while the Merc is doing what? Nothing for approximately half that time due to Saber Reflect. The bottom line is that the addition of Saber Reflect + Electro Net is a net add of several free GCDs to a competent melee player. For you, evidently not so much.

How is a melee going to stay on the merc when he nets you from 30m away? You can't use your gap closers or vanishes.

For someone with the name of macroeconomics, you definitely don't understand how the bigger picture works.

Juggernaut Vs Commando

 

Jagg: Saber Throw + Force Charge ~ 2-3,5k dmg

- Force Charge interrupt and stun Commando

- Commando cant stun Juggernaut - Force Charge gives the resistance to all stuns

Jagg: Sundering Assault + Smash ~ 7-8k dmg

Jagg: Force Push + Force Charge ~ 2 k dmg + interrupt, + resistance

Jagg: ravage - cant be interrupt ~ 3-4k dmg + Smash ~6k dmg

Jagg: Vicious Throw ~ 3-4k dmg

Commando is dead - Juggernauts have 90% hp

The same situation with Marauders

 

Last WZ:

My team: 4 Commando, 1 Guard, 1 Setn., 2 Sages

Enemy team: 1 Sorc., 4 Marauders, 3 Jugger.

We could not leave the respawn....

 

I have 5 item Elite WH and 20,5k hp, Commando is my main. I play this game from the beginning.

Anyone else think it's funny he spells juggernaut correctly, and then proceeds to use jagg? Like wtflol.

And apparently, in his scenario the commando is being played by a brain dead monkey because they just stand there and do nothing in the 1v1 against the jugg.

Anyone else think it's funny he spells juggernaut correctly, and then proceeds to use jagg? Like wtflol.

 

And apparently, in his scenario the commando is being played by a brain dead monkey because they just stand there and do nothing in the 1v1 against the jugg.

You think that ridiculous ? So take your commando and go kill jugg/marauder, powertech, assassin, operative.....

I wish you good luck...

Vanguard: Taunts, Grapple, Stealth scan, 10m Burst Dmg, aoe 3sec stun, 4m interrupt

 

Commando: 360° aoe Knockback + 5 sec slow, Stealth Scan, Cleanse, Off-Heals, 30m Burst Dmg, 30m interrupt, 8sec/30m mezz, rediculous amount of AOE,

 

and if specced gunnery: 4 sec Root and 70% slow on Full Auto (which helps your Team when focusing or peeling off)

Vanguard: all main abilities are instant cast in the greatest damage output spec

Commando: all main abilities are casted regardless of spec

think we found our problem......

(...)

How is a melee going to stay on the merc when he nets you from 30m away? You can't use your gap closers or vanishes.

(...)

There is no force on this Earth and in whole galaxy to make BW give us 30 m electro net. They think that 10 m stun is fine, so electro net would be 10 m for 100%. I know them too well.

 

It hits not much harder than Combat Spec Blade Storm without PS, and it still hits less hard than sweep which is what they'll be trying to stop from Focus Spec.

 

It hits much harder than a carnage mara's BS w/o gore. Focus gets 30% ArP and 6% extra damage from shii-cho.

 

For combat it doesn't matter that sweep is melee range. You're waiting to use PS till they blow their knockback anyway if you're smart. Everyone always thinks if you just stop PS > MS you've shut them down, but it's the PS part of that that's dangerous, and that comes up much more often and smart combat sents will look for their opportunity then destroy you with it. Diversion isn't gonna stop it when all they have to do is watch for it and then sweep because, again, Diversion isn't a subtle animation (unlike PS).

 

See thing about diversion being off GCD, is that you can use it right as they're using their ability. It's similar to popping saber ward on my guardian when I hear PT/VG laugh because they just proc rail shot and will thus use rail shot next, so I pop saber ward and get my 100% parry on it. Diversion works same way. You just have to be good enough to pop it when you know they're going to use something that you want to absorb.

 

Although, as you've pointed out, combat sents still have stasis, and they don't need to worry about singularity stacks, so they can use that to clear your Diversion from outside melee range. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

If they want to use stasis to clear it that's fine by me, that's one less way to them to get singularity and I'm also not stunned. I can proceed to run away so they can't hit me.

 

One attack makes the difference, but my point is that everyone will have a relatively low hitting ability they can waste on Diversion, and then get on with it. One GCD can make the difference for a shadow in a good 1v1. It won't make the difference for us.

 

It all depends on how good you are and how well you can use it. Diversion is going to take a lot of skill to use well, and I'm glad for it.

 

Yes you can decide when to use it, but again it's not subtle and smart people will definitely look for it. You don't get to go "Oh he's using BS" and pop Diversion. At that point the damage is going to go through. They'll see it, they'll use their low damaging force/tech ability (honestly only one I'm having trouble thinking of one for is Infiltration Shadow, but I'm sure I can find something, and that's assuming it doesn't just count shadow technique), and then they'll continue on with the pwnage.

 

Diversion being off GCD means it's a reactive skill, and not proactive in that you use it and wait for enemy to hit you. Instead, you are waiting for them to do something that you want it to absorb. The animation doesn't really matter that much.

 

One attack dodged. One. Count 'em.

 

I'm wondering what happens if you get hit by two or more force/tech attacks from different players at the same time. How does diversion work then? I'm hoping it absorbs both lol.

 

This is how grounding totem worked in WoW. It's only supposed to absorb one attack, but when two attacks go off same time, it absorbed both.

 

 

Again, if you think Focus Blade Storm is worth blocking, then so is Combat's, even without PS. Even without the armor pen they still have a 30% boost to it's crit multiplier. Also I don't think you quite appreciate the carnage 5 Blade Rushes in a row can do to a person when they have 100% armor penetration. (Zen reduces the GCD to 1 second for that ability).

 

Already explained above focus BS hits harder than combat BS w/o 100% ArP.

 

Diversion has no bearing on melee/ranged so not sure why you mention zen.

 

It can definitely happen.

 

Yeah on a combat sent who has his 100% ArP up and uses dispatch it can happen. But at that point is already overkill, and guardians don't get any talents to make dispatch crit harder.

 

 

The shadow changes alone are pretty amazing. I'm surprised that's not getting more press. Tank Hybrids smacking you in the face with Shadowstrike?

 

That depends on what the % proc is. Hybrid tanks already get at least 1 point in duplicity which is 10% chance to makes maul do 30% more damage while costing 75% less. The face thing isn't an issue, never hard to get behind or to side of someone to maul them.

 

You say that but I can't for the life of me figure out why. Didn't one of the tooltips mention needing both sabers? Wasn't it you pointing out a little while ago that it was most likely for sentinels only? Make up your mind yeah?

 

Learn2read? Dual saber throw is the one I was talking about that requires 2 sabers to use and is thus for sents only. Saber reflect could be for both, but I doubt it. There's a guardian tanking talent that buffs it, but nothing from sent trees which is why I believe it's only for guardians.

 

Any shadow with cooldowns and looking to ball carry can stay alive for 9 seconds. We also don't know if resilience will cleanse it.

 

Resilience will most likely cleanse it, but it's cd is much longer than the net's.

 

I'm not saying electro net isn't pretty cool. All of these abilities from all of these classes are going to be game changers, but electro net looks like pretty much it to me for gunnery, whereas others are getting pretty interesting changes in their trees as well.

 

Aside from sin's phasewalk and the sage force barrier, I don't think the other class stuff are bigger "game changers" than net.

 

Electro Net is pretty much our only hope for unique utility right now, otherwise we're staying out of ranked warzones for the indefinite future.

 

And it's damn good utility.

You think that ridiculous ? So take your commando and go kill jugg/marauder, powertech, assassin, operative.....

I wish you good luck...

I don't need luck because I'm not trying to 1v1 people in WZs like a baddie.

There is no force on this Earth and in whole galaxy to make BW give us 30 m electro net. They think that 10 m stun is fine, so electro net would be 10 m for 100%. I know them too well.

Every ranged class's snare is 30m. Good try though.

Then it's time for you to post those aswesome videos and skills then.

they won't.

i've been in many forum discussions vs. "merc is fine", "l2p", you know the rest.

yet, when i provide parses and SS evidence, the discussion always turns into hearsay and opinion.

i have a VG/assault and a Merc/pyro...i gave my VG the gear my Merc was wearing. instantly, my VG did + ~150-200 DPS...on a dummy, that can't interrupt!!!

in PvP, the disparity is exponential. when it's all about TTK and burst, commando/merc has little to no shot. that is just FACT!

sure, there are superior players that make the class work. but, look at the numbers. go to torparse and see how well these classes are performing...

then, use common sense and a little brain power and realize commando/merc is severly hindered!!

they won't.

 

i've been in many forum discussions vs. "merc is fine", "l2p", you know the rest.

 

yet, when i provide parses and SS evidence, the discussion always turns into hearsay and opinion.

 

i have a VG/assault and a Merc/pyro...i gave my VG the gear my Merc was wearing. instantly, my VG did + ~150-200 DPS...on a dummy, that can't interrupt!!!

 

in PvP, the disparity is exponential. when it's all about TTK and burst, commando/merc has little to no shot. that is just FACT!

 

sure, there are superior players that make the class work. but, look at the numbers. go to torparse and see how well these classes are performing...

 

then, use common sense and a little brain power and realize commando/merc is severly hindered!!

that is exactely what i did and what kind of results i had.

luckily i have the legacy gun, so in only costed a couple of thousand credits to get my powertech full ewh instantly.

I don't need luck because I'm not trying to 1v1 people in WZs like a baddie.

But others will 1v1 you, what you gonna do then? R.I.P.

Again, as I stated earlier, given the vagaries of the English language, the text can easily be seen as stating Saber Reflect affects direct single target ranged attacks. And tech and force attacks. The mobs currently in the game with a reflect ability DO reflect DoT damage.

--

Edited in this part: I read the last few pages and realize this has been discussed enuff. I disagree with the interpretation but I do agree with the fact that regardless of what it says....you never know whats going to actually happen lol. I left my comment below even though its pretty much been talked about enough by now

------

The thing is, "Single target direct attack" is describing a Non-DoT attack. There are "direct" and "DoT" attacks. Just going by the English language with no context will make your point true. But in this context, it specifies "Direct" which specifically rules out DoTs.

If you read Rupture and certain skill boxes, there is a damage boost to the DoT portion of the damage (or maybe just the Direct portion?)....so its clear the game can differentiate DoT and Direct damage, even when coming from the same source...or same attack.

Saber Reflect will not reflect DoTs or AoEs, by description IMO....strictly because it says "Direct"

Are you serious?!

 

AOE damage is completely overrated. AOE damage doesn't take down 2 healers. AOE damage on the scale of 2k per target, doesn't even compare to smash. A cast heal that consumes ammo, takes 2 seconds to cast, is interruptable and is almost entirely useless 95% of the time. The knockback seems great - until you realize you just knocked them all back to leap range as you're rooted/smashed to death.

 

Gunnery is a worthless spec in PvP. I know some guys can do well with it, but they are certainly not playing top tier players. Every time I see a Merc against me spamming tracer missile, it fills me with joy knowing just how much I'll shut him down the entire match. The only way they are successful, is against a team that anyone would have beaten. The dependence on cast times KILLS the class. The range of the attack means nothing when it takes longer to cast a single attack than it does to close the gap. Sadly, that's the biggest problem with this spec is just how flipping stationary it must be.

 

The ONLY thing a Commando has going for it over Vanguard, is the 30m interrupt. Otherwise, Vanguard is undeniably better and more team oriented.

When Aoe dmg is overrated why are people playing Smash?

1 Pt isnt going to kill a Healer aswell. But a commando that drops Plasma Grenade, Sticky, Mortar Volley into a group will give the 2 healers cracy amount of Health to heal back up.

You can knock em away after they charged!!! Knock em away to prevent that super smash on your stunned healer. And powertechs dont charge btw!!! Knock em away so you can finish a cap on novare etc.

You can cast Advanced Medical Probe Instant in gunnery with 5 stacks. You can use Tech Override for another instant Medical Probe.

It still sounds like you are fighting alone. GET A TEAM!

Vanguard: all main abilities are instant cast in the greatest damage output spec

Commando: all main abilities are casted regardless of spec

 

think we found our problem......

Vanguard: 10m range

Commando: 30m range (only 50% are casted, HIB and Demo Round are instant)

Vanguard: gets randomly smashed because he has to stick in the frontline, gets focusfired more often because he is

standing next to the enemy, gets bubble stunned 24/7

Commando: does not get randomly smashed, does not get bubble stunned 24/7, has it easier beeing on the focus

target in time

Commando: 30m range (only 50% are casted, HIB and Demo Round are instant)

Yes and... how often do you use you instants one? Every 15 seconds? And during those 15 seconds, won't you need to use your channeled attacks to deal some damage in the meantime? Meaning maybe that our instants represents around 30% of you overall dps? Meaning maybe that during those channeld attack we might, MIGHT, get interrupted/pushed like 1-3 times in a row whileeating instant attack from opponents? Naaaah, what am I saying, of course not, let me just go spam my tracers & unload at, OMG, 30 meters range against a Warrior, yes,hmmmm, yes, to me all the love & glory in the Ranked Warzones !!!!,

Dude, you really are a newbie, it's okay, the harsh reality will sooner or later hit you full face.

EDIT: HA, just found out you are just trolling, good laugh mate, now go back to your lolsmasher.

Focus got nerfed pretty good, so not everyone got a flat across the board buff. Bubble stun also got nerfed so it's self only. The two biggest things people complained about--and rightly so--got nerfed. Some of the other class buffs were either meh--like vigilance guardian buffs--to pretty good--deception assassins.

 

1.7 is coming out tom so ya, there's no class changes. The datamined stuff are most likely expansion.

They've said they're nerfing bubbles. They haven't said how yet to my knowledge nor do the datamines contain anything to my knowledge at this time.

You're making some pretty big assumptions in this thread and proving the old saying regarding assumptions in the process. You're better than this dude. I've seen you post. I know you aren't stupid. Why you are saying blatantly stupid things?

Don't have time atm to respond to the rest, but rest assured I will.

Got full.. fairly optimized WH gear for my 50 commando, for PvP i usually roll assault, i'm not going to say i'm in anyway a brilliant player but had a commando since BETA so i know the class fairly well. The most i get in WZs is about 270-350k.

I then decided to do my first ever PvP game on my Gunslinger who had 0 expertise... and i got 520k DPS.. i was amazed at how little damage my commando was doing when compared to other classes once i was actually playing them

Yes and... how often do you use you instants one? Every 15 seconds? And during those 15 seconds, won't you need to use your channeled attacks to deal some damage in the meantime? Meaning maybe that our instants represents around 30% of you overall dps? Meaning maybe that during those channeld attack we might, MIGHT, get interrupted/pushed like 1-3 times in a row whileeating instant attack from opponents? Naaaah, what am I saying, of course not, let me just go spam my tracers & unload at, OMG, 30 meters range against a Warrior, yes,hmmmm, yes, to me all the love & glory in the Ranked Warzones !!!!,

 

Dude, you really are a newbie, it's okay, the harsh reality will sooner or later hit you full face.

 

 

EDIT: HA, just found out you are just trolling, good laugh mate, now go back to your lolsmasher.

The best thing in RBGs is a smasher leaping right into your backline or even behind it to reach your range DDs and get instantely focus fired and killed within 1 global because he just jumped out of guard/heal range.

The best thing in RBGs is a smasher leaping right into your backline or even behind it to reach your range DDs and get instantely focus fired and killed within 1 global because he just jumped out of guard/heal range.

Focus fired by who?

Oh wait, don't tell me, don't tell me...

By all the DPS Mercs and commandos right! :D:D

Roflcopter. Isn't it about time you go bait a class you actually play?

Every ranged class's snare is 30m. Good try though.

Cryo Grenade got nerfed to 10m so there is an argument for either side.

Vanguard: 10m range

Commando: 30m range (only 50% are casted, HIB and Demo Round are instant)

 

Vanguard: gets randomly smashed because he has to stick in the frontline, gets focusfired more often because he is

standing next to the enemy, gets bubble stunned 24/7

Commando: does not get randomly smashed, does not get bubble stunned 24/7, has it easier beeing on the focus

target in time

the VAST majority if fighting in this game occurs within 10m. it is just the nature of the maps and the objectives.

and you know what? Powertech's shorter range has not hurt my play even a tiny bit. bubble stun is annoying, but a little bit of smarts and you can get out of range of that sucker and pop if with explosive dart. and it is far easier to manage positioning bc i never have to stop moving to cast.

and merc/mandos dont get "randomly" smashed. we get intentionally smashed. regardless of intent, the damage still hurts the same.

Post deleted,

I don't wanna start flame war about stuff we discussed in past.

But others will 1v1 you, what you gonna do then? R.I.P.

That's what friends and good positioning are for?

That's what friends and good positioning are for?

Sure, only to be beaten by other friends and good positioning... WITH BETTER CLASSES (R.I.P. II :da comeback).

They've said they're nerfing bubbles. They haven't said how yet to my knowledge nor do the datamines contain anything to my knowledge at this time.

 

You're making some pretty big assumptions in this thread and proving the old saying regarding assumptions in the process. You're better than this dude. I've seen you post. I know you aren't stupid. Why you are saying blatantly stupid things?

 

Don't have time atm to respond to the rest, but rest assured I will.

Have you not read the stuff on darth hater? It says kinetic collapse is self only. That is the bubble stun talent. It got nerfed like BW said they would.

The focus changes are all mostly nerfs so I'm not assuming anything. Singularity going from 4 stack to 3 stacks is a 25% damage nerf right off the bat.

I'm not making any assumptions that is outside of what is said in the stuff on darth hater. All of us are making assumptions in the regards that this datamined stuff may or may not all go through, but that is a moot point.

Sure, only to be beaten by other friends and good positioning... WITH BETTER CLASSES (R.I.P. II :da comeback).

Cool story bro.