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Is It just me? Are Scouts a bit OP?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Starfighter
Is It just me? Are Scouts a bit OP?

Svarthrafn's Avatar


Svarthrafn
12.12.2013 , 07:14 PM | #101
One particular Scout build can potentially out-DPS strikes for a short period. Not everyone uses that particular build or ability.

As for turning fights, I don't do them. Ever. Turning fights make a scout into a sitting wet paper back when the opponent's strike or gunship buddies show up. I execute slashing attacks that leave me exposed for the shortest period of time possible, and never engage opponents that outnumber me.

I also don't engage other scouts one-on-one, but will engage strikes and gunships 1v1 because I have the ability to disengage at any time. I focus on speed and GTHO ability because as a scout pilot, I know just how killable they are when they get in over their head. Anytime I find myself on the small side of 2v1 it is GTHO time, because I only have so many cooldowns.

A lot of people here need to read the Dicta Boelke. Start applying those principles and you will be killing everything in no time, no matter what you fly.

TheLexinator's Avatar


TheLexinator
12.12.2013 , 07:24 PM | #102
As primarily a Scout pilot, I will say that in good hands (with enough practice), yes the Scout is currently the BEST 1V1 craft in the game. If anyone says otherwise, they are deluding themselves, or have not spent enough time/upgrades on the ship.

That said, this is a team game, and how often do you really find yourself in a 1V1 situation? I guess it's more common in PuG's, but why PuG when you can join your friends and actually use voice chat - the most OP thing this expansion... Trust me - ANY team with voice chat WILL win .

Gavin_Kelvar's Avatar


Gavin_Kelvar
12.12.2013 , 07:28 PM | #103
Quote: Originally Posted by Yorumi View Post
Well that's the thing though, the skill of the pilot. Strikes have extremely powerful directional shields and more hull hp. A scout is highly susceptible to shield piercing and range. Neither of these are giving one craft a significant advantage over the other. Considering what directional shields can do a strike can have virtual invulnerability for longer than a scout can.
true and I don't disagree with the idea that both starfighters being able to outfly the other depending on who has the greater skill. What I disagree with is the evasion mechanic which gives scouts RNG dodges in a twitch based game mode that can prolong a dogfight not because the scout is equally skilled but the accuracy penalty it applies requires a longer dogfight to shoot them down. Strikers survive based on pilot twitch skills as they will get minimal RNG dodges (10% evasion really isn't likely to make a difference the majority of the time) on the other hand it seems the argument in favor of evasion is that scouts survive on RNG dodges moreso than pilot skill.

It'd be like having a PvP ground match where you have to medium/heavy armor character who needs to manually dodge enemy attacks (GSF manually taking evasive action), perhaps in a mechanic that would be similar to manual blocking in Skyrim (to give an idea of what I'm talking about) with minimal RNG dodges going against a guy who is in light armor and can do the same manual dodges faster PLUS has a buff that gives him a sizable RNG dodge in case his manual dodge isn't enough. Yes the medium/heavy armor guy can still kill the light armor guy but he's contending with not only his opponent's twitch abilities but also his opponent's RNG defense whereas the light armor guy for all intents and purposes just has to contend with the twitch reflexes of their opponent. It may just be me but that doesn't sound balanced.

EDIT: as I've said in other posts I don't blame scouts for this and think they're OP; I blame a flawed game mechanic ported from a character stat based game mode but has no place in a twitch based game mode.

ObiWanJabroni's Avatar


ObiWanJabroni
12.12.2013 , 09:42 PM | #104
Quote: Originally Posted by Resipsal View Post
^ I think sentawan has this figured out. If Distortion Field and Blaster Overcharge were both nerfed, the Sting/Flashfire would no longer be able to exceed the strikers in both offense and defense. It would just be a meaner, tougher, slower version of the base scout, which is what one would expect.
There is a lot of misinformation in this thread.

First of all, lets do a breakdown of the flashfire/sting and the other scout side by side.

Shield Regen Rate-
Sting/Flashfire: 74.8
Novadive/Blackbolt: 104.0

Max Shield Capacity-
1040 for each

Max Hull-
Sting/Flashfire: 1026
Novadive/Blackbolt: 950

Engine Power Capacity-
Sting/Flashfire: 100
Novadive/Blackbolt: 108

Engine Regen Rate-
Sting/Flashfire: 5.4/sec
Novadive/Blackbolt: 5.0/sec

Sensor detection is 2k higher in the Novadive/Blackbolt at 19.5k without buffs from abilities or companions. The Flashfire/Sting only can boost theirs through companions.

Evasion-
This is the tricky one. Stock with no abilities slotted all of them are 10%. With the abilities slotted they come with, the Flashfire/Sting has 25% without using cooldowns, and the Novadive/Blackbolt has 14%. Both however, have access to all the passive buffs, and can therefore be the same.

So in reality, if you think the 76 hull damage and the .4 engine regen rate make it meaner, tougher, etc...go ahead and keep thinking that. The things you EARNED by saving up the 5000 req for are the clusters and the quads. A fair trade off, considering you paid a premium out of the gate before you could even upgrade them.

Now, as for pilots of other ships that want Blaster Overcharge and Distortion Shield nerfed, and essentially nerfing all scout pilots who use those abilities, let me ask you this:

Do you have abilities that raise your accuracy?
Do you have abilities that grant damage reduction?
Can you plan a build that will help to negate the bonuses of scouts?

Answer to all three is most definitely yes. So if scouts are such a problem, why doesn't anyone want to plan a build for them? I'll tell you why. Because you found what you think is the optimal cookie cutter build for highest possible damage and you don't want to make the hard choice of utility vs maximum DPS.

Learn your class.
Play.
Take notes...and we'll revisit this in a few months time when there are more players AND ALL THE SHIPS ARE ACTUALLY IN THE GAME. Another thing most of you don't take into consideration is we aren't playing with a full deck here. There is at least one other ship that still isn't in game, maybe two, if the bomber isn't the cloaker.

HOW IN YOUR RIGHT DAMN MIND CAN YOU BALANCE A GAME WITHOUT ALL THE INFORMATION????
You can't. So stop trying.
Maryann'Cotton-55 Sniper | Cotton-eyed'Joe-55 Gunslinger

Tarder'Sauce-55 Juggernaut | Andurin-55 Guardian

Knorwig-55 Sage | Pootie'Tang -43 Sorceror

Voltare- 55 Commando | Johnny'Chimpo-35 Mercenary

Anarchos- 55 Assassin | Dante- 55 Operative

Eripio- 55 Powertech | Magudir- 55 Sentinel

ObiWanJabroni's Avatar


ObiWanJabroni
12.12.2013 , 09:49 PM | #105
Quote: Originally Posted by ObiWanJabroni View Post
There is a lot of misinformation in this thread.

First of all, lets do a breakdown of the flashfire/sting and the other scout side by side.

Shield Regen Rate-
Sting/Flashfire: 74.8
Novadive/Blackbolt: 104.0

Max Shield Capacity-
1040 for each

Max Hull-
Sting/Flashfire: 1026
Novadive/Blackbolt: 950

Engine Power Capacity-
Sting/Flashfire: 100
Novadive/Blackbolt: 108

Engine Regen Rate-
Sting/Flashfire: 5.4/sec
Novadive/Blackbolt: 5.0/sec

Sensor detection is 2k higher in the Novadive/Blackbolt at 19.5k without buffs from abilities or companions. The Flashfire/Sting only can boost theirs through companions.

Evasion-
This is the tricky one. Stock with no abilities slotted all of them are 10%. With the abilities slotted they come with, the Flashfire/Sting has 25% without using cooldowns, and the Novadive/Blackbolt has 14%. Both however, have access to all the passive buffs, and can therefore be the same.

So in reality, if you think the 76 hull damage and the .4 engine regen rate make it meaner, tougher, etc...go ahead and keep thinking that. The things you EARNED by saving up the 5000 req for are the clusters and the quads. A fair trade off, considering you paid a premium out of the gate before you could even upgrade them.

Now, as for pilots of other ships that want Blaster Overcharge and Distortion Shield nerfed, and essentially nerfing all scout pilots who use those abilities, let me ask you this:

Do you have abilities that raise your accuracy?
Do you have abilities that grant damage reduction?
Can you plan a build that will help to negate the bonuses of scouts?

Answer to all three is most definitely yes. So if scouts are such a problem, why doesn't anyone want to plan a build for them? I'll tell you why. Because you found what you think is the optimal cookie cutter build for highest possible damage and you don't want to make the hard choice of utility vs maximum DPS.

Learn your class.
Play.
Take notes...and we'll revisit this in a few months time when there are more players AND ALL THE SHIPS ARE ACTUALLY IN THE GAME. Another thing most of you don't take into consideration is we aren't playing with a full deck here. There is at least one other ship that still isn't in game, maybe two, if the bomber isn't the cloaker.

HOW IN YOUR RIGHT DAMN MIND CAN YOU BALANCE A GAME WITHOUT ALL THE INFORMATION????
You can't. So stop trying.

Also, just stop claiming the scouts exceed strikers in offense and defense. They don't. They exceed them in short BURST PERIODS, but not overall.
Maryann'Cotton-55 Sniper | Cotton-eyed'Joe-55 Gunslinger

Tarder'Sauce-55 Juggernaut | Andurin-55 Guardian

Knorwig-55 Sage | Pootie'Tang -43 Sorceror

Voltare- 55 Commando | Johnny'Chimpo-35 Mercenary

Anarchos- 55 Assassin | Dante- 55 Operative

Eripio- 55 Powertech | Magudir- 55 Sentinel

mr_sim's Avatar


mr_sim
12.12.2013 , 10:03 PM | #106
Really the thread is actually about the fact that scouts are performing like Space Superiority Fighters. Which makes no sense when you have the Striker trying to be so much the same thing.

Scout should be fast response and harassment fighters that rely on slashing attacks or "Knife" range attacks.

In the example of Domination scenario they should damage turrets and draw away defenders from control points or be fast reinforcements to falling control points, sprinkled with scouting > tracking > disrupting > eventually killing gunships.

Helig's Avatar


Helig
12.12.2013 , 10:14 PM | #107
I'd rather buff Striker shields than nerf Distortion. I'd also love to see a Shield that blocks shield penetration.
"I'm not *giving* him cake, I'm *assaulting* him with cake!" - Pinkamena Diane Pie

mr_sim's Avatar


mr_sim
12.12.2013 , 10:20 PM | #108
Quote: Originally Posted by Helig View Post
I'd rather buff Striker shields than nerf Distortion. I'd also love to see a Shield that blocks shield penetration.
As a striker pilot I'm actually very satisfied by striker shields("He's satisfied!!! nerf that") I don't need anymore shield for myself and I certainly don't need to have to take down more shield every striker I have to deal with.

I really do regret the title for this thread. Based on the conversation I'm seeing I should have called it "Scout, what is your role anyway?"

Helig's Avatar


Helig
12.12.2013 , 10:23 PM | #109
Quote: Originally Posted by mr_sim View Post
As a striker pilot I'm actually very satisfied by striker shields("He's satisfied!!! nerf that") I don't need anymore shield for myself and I certainly don't need to have to take down more shield every striker I have to deal with.

I really do regret the title for this thread. Based on the conversation I'm seeing I should have called it "Scout, what is your role anyway?"
I think that shield pen protection should be a unique Striker feature. Directional are OK 1v1, but Strikers don't have anything great for general combat.
"I'm not *giving* him cake, I'm *assaulting* him with cake!" - Pinkamena Diane Pie

mr_sim's Avatar


mr_sim
12.12.2013 , 10:32 PM | #110
Quote: Originally Posted by Helig View Post
I think that shield pen protection should be a unique Striker feature. Directional are OK 1v1, but Strikers don't have anything great for general combat.
Not sure I follow what your suggesting.

I use directional shields, they save my butt in head to head and let my rebalance my shields when one arc falls if i cycle through them. Also directional shields bring me back to my happy Tie fighter days.