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Carnage / Combat Set Bonuses and Tactical Items

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Sentinel / Marauder
Carnage / Combat Set Bonuses and Tactical Items
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EricMusco's Avatar

04.16.2019 , 09:59 AM | #1 This is the last staff post in this thread.  
Hey folks,

Following our Onslaught announcement at SW Celebration we want to start diving into feedback right away. I want to use this thread to talk about Tactical Item effects and Set Bonuses for Carnage and Combat Disciplines. Our goal for set bonuses is to introduce new bonuses, and potentially with even new sizes so you can mix and match. Tactical Items are a new item type that is meant to be build defining and most likely to directly impact how an ability works. For inspiration here are two completely made up Chain Lightning Examples:
  1. Chain Lightning now does all of its total damage to only one target, and no longer jumps.
  2. Chain Lightning now jumps even more and does additional damage to secondary targets.

That would allow you to take a standard ability and allow it to be modified to fit your playstyle. Please use this thread to brainstorm ideas and make as many recommendations as you would like! For context:
  • Tactical Items: These should modify one of your Advanced Class/Discipline abilities to work differently. The goal is for you to use the ability in situations you previously wouldn’t (more often, against specific targets, etc)
  • Set Bonuses: These should be focused on the broader “kind of tools” your class uses, but not specific abilities. Some examples are sets that center around bleeds, force damage, lightning, shields, cover, and so on.
Set bonuses, tacticals, both, let us know what you would like to see. I may not respond frequently in this thread but know that I am going to be compiling everything and sending it over to the team.

Eric Musco | Community Manager
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shyroman's Avatar

04.16.2019 , 10:30 AM | #2
A tactical item that changes ferocity back into a time based ability instead of stacks.
Ryann - Sniper | Ryannack - Sorcerer | Apophas - Marauder
Jesicca - Mercenary | Lindseey - Gunslinger
Origin - Honey Badgers
Star Forge

Spasi's Avatar

04.16.2019 , 04:22 PM | #3
You know this is perfect i have been b*tching about ataru being the acrobatic form with absolutely no acrobatic animations.Note all my suggestions aren't strictly for combat spec.

What i propose is a tactical item that makes Lance a 10 m leap kinda like zealous leap but without the interrupt and root(the grounded effect stays).

Or maybe a tactical item that makes clashing blast an aoe with reduced damage and have it with an animation kinda like Force Sweep.

Or maybe tactical that makes blade barrage into a focus maker at a bit less damage of course.Of course everyone will want the old channel master strike.So alternatively you can have the item bring back the old 3 s cast but have it being protected from any form of cc and give if 25% damage reduction while channeling.

Perhaps tactical that makes force camouflage into a vanish ability that takes you out of combat but increases the cooldown to 2 min or something.

Also one tactical that is useful for all 3 specs - Let us use zen at 15 stacks instead of 30 with half the stacks.That being a set bonus or tactical i don't care.(still stacks up to 30 max)

Another fun one is a tactical that heals you for 50% of the damage dealt by blade rush/slash but reduces the damage slightly.

Defense tactical items are also possible right? How about a tactical that makes guarded by the force into a 6 s(not counting the utility) ability that also heals you for 5% of your hp when hit, however the damage reduction is reduced from 99% to 70%.

One that MUST be implemented i think for all classes is a tactical that further reduces the cooldown of the cc breaker(Resolute in that case) by additional 30 s and also gives complete cc immunity for the next 6 s.

Maybe a tactical that makes Force Charge usable at any range with longer root and more damage but no focus generation.

Another defense one is tactical that makes rebuke into a 20 s ability(removes the need to be hit over and over again to get full duration) and instead of reflecting some damage back it heals you for 0.5% of your hp upon activation.(Jedi enforcer just increases the duration to 24 s and buffs the healing by 15%)

Lastly for defense is a tactical that cuts saber ward's duration down to 7 s but doubles the defenses received by the buff.

One offensive idea is to have a tactical that increases the damage done by blade blitz 350%(not counting the utility for it) but it loses 10 m dash range and 75% of its defense chance.Also the root protection from the ability is transferred to the utility.(You'll have to change up the animation a bit for that one)

Last normal idea is towards Force sweep, have it be a single target 2 s hard stun through a tactical of course.

A crazy one is a complete overhaul of Inspiration.It would be a tactical that changes the ability from what it is now a raid buff into a 3 m cooldown(still requires 30 centering) 15 s buff that heals the sentinel for 50% of all damage dealt but does not give any attack buffs.

Yet another more interesting one is having force kick being an actual attack.Either through a set bonus or a tactical.(when it becomes an attack dealing damage it still shouldn't respect the GCD but make it deal rather low damage like riposte)

Now for precision i have a few interesting ideas.One being give it 3 stacks overall at slightly higher cooldown but that is boring.

Maybe its time for a full rework of how precision works.Instead of it giving armor penetration it actually increases your global cooldown from 1.5 to 2.0 s, still being affected by zen's alacrity or any alacrity for that matter of course and what it does is it makes next 2-3 abilities used ,out of a few options like lance, blade rush, blade barrage, dispatch, clashing blast, into a melee ability with massive damage that roots the opponent for a second.And my craziest idea is all of the abilities buffed by this new precision would turn into small dashes.Not much bigger than 5-7 meters.Depending on which one you use additional effect will be added like if you use clashing blast the damage will be yellow and still affected by all the passives from the spec.If for instance dispatch is used, the dash is longer but can't be used if the target is under 30% health. Amount of enemies hit is also dependent on the ability used.Minimum being 2 for clashing blast, dispatch and lance.Blade barrage - 3 and 5 for blade rush.While dashing you're unprotected by cc or damage.And yes i am aware how hard this will be to code and implement, and that its too much for the game.BUT I WANT IT DAMMIT.

Take what you will from this precision rework i have come up with but 1 thing from it can be implemented.Like for instance give us a tactical that would change precision into a buff that does what it does now - 100% amour penetration but also on top of that increases the damage done by the abilities by 35%.Downside being that while in precision global cooldown is 2.0 s not 1.5 s.To make it feel not as awkward change up the animations while in precision to be a bit slower.That would make stacking alacrity much more effective.

I really have a vision for combat to be a highly mobile dashing disaster.It is because Ataru form utilized by the spec is supposed to very acrobatic very hard hitting and very tiring.But i have a few more ideas.

Like for instance making blade rush into the following :Instead of it being spam-able ability you can use a tactical item to make it into a 2-stack attack(Like operative's roll) you use it once and than a second time(different animation) with much higher damage but with a cooldown.If push comes to shove you can spam cyclone slash instead.

I just want it to be that incredibly high burst spec that gets tired very fast(runs out of cooldowns and doesn't have much else to do until cooldown come up).It might be selfish and bad design but i think most of what i propose is pretty reasonable rest is just dreams.

Now i waited a bit to have the idea completely ready in my head.Dispatch is a skill that you can have a lot of fun with.My idea is a tactical item that changes dispatch in a very interesting way.So what it does is when the opponent is hit with dispatch, the lightsaber thrown remains impaled in them, giving them an uncleasable debuff(Change the animation to guardian's whirling blade and make it come from the left as if the sentinel has thrown their offhand).Dispatch itself cannot be used unless hand of justice is ative(buff from combat spec that makes dispatch usable of target of any health).Until that debuff is consumed the sentinel cannot activate ataru form's strike on the affected target. Debuff is activated by any sentinel attack dealing 75% of dispatch's original damage as yellow damage and the debuff is consumed.It's done as bonus damage following the attack(comes after the attack is done like ataru proc).And that's when it gets interesting.If activated by an attack affected by precision additional effects are activated.For instance if lance is used it pulls the target from up to a 10 m range and roots them(if target is immune to cc lance cant be activated on that target).If clashing blast is used it automatically crits the additional proc.If blade rush is used, proc stuns the opponent for 2s.If hit with Force Sweep the proc is aoe and deals damage to all affected by sweep.If blade barrage activates the debuff you get an additional use of blade barrage (resets the cooldown of blade barrage ).And if cyclone slash slash procs all targets hit by the attack get overwhelmed debuff and receive 10% more damage from aoe attacks.I dont know how broken that will be but it will be extremely fun nonetheless.And if you make an animation where the sent pulls out his/her saber from the enemy signifying the proc(clashing blast just makes it come back as if it concludes dispatch animation same for other ranged attacks) and does a flip i will be the happiest man alive. Something fun you can do with that is return one-handed skill animations.At least for when the saber is inside the opponent.It just makes sense.For lance change it to the old riposte animation.For blade rush maybe Sundering strike animation?(guardian's main focus builder) For twin saber throw you can have the sentinel pull his/her saber back first and than throw them.And zealous strike is easy - just give it the sunder(juggernaut rage builder) animation.For the marauder animations basically do the same thing.I am even trying to think of ways to cut your workload with this.The only thing i see here that would be kinda hard to do is how the lightsaber will physically stay inside the opponent.And you have to create 1-2 relatively simple animations.

That concludes my wall of text.I hope you reread it and see how much i have added and of course use some of it.

PS: If there isn't a set bonus that increases the amount of precision stacks we will riot you know this right?

shyroman's Avatar

04.16.2019 , 04:46 PM | #4
Another tactical item idea: it significantly increases the amount of berserk stacks you get. From 6 to 12. That would be enough to get 2 consecutive ferocities under berserk.
Ryann - Sniper | Ryannack - Sorcerer | Apophas - Marauder
Jesicca - Mercenary | Lindseey - Gunslinger
Origin - Honey Badgers
Star Forge

Kaizersan's Avatar

04.16.2019 , 09:21 PM | #5
For tac items they should be developed around allowing players to change their unique spec abilities in a way that can set them apart from each other like for Jedi Sent you could have a tac item that combines dual saber throw and leg slash giving the move root or slow movement based on utilities taken

captainwesson's Avatar

04.17.2019 , 12:04 AM | #6
Precision/Ferocity is fine. Giving an option to change it into a timed ability might be nice, so perhaps some should be able to take that option instead. But there’s a lot to consider, and PvP balance is a major one. PvE: ok whatever, most things die fast anyway and abilities would just enhance or speed up the process (or make it more fun). But balancing PvP could be a nightmare.

That said, here are a few things I think could be good if there was thought put into them.

I agree with Spasi, Ataru should be more acrobatic. Even if the damage and timing stays the same, make different animations/options. Currently Blade Barrage/Ravage is the only animation that really involves us spinning it doing something really “acrobatic”. And in my opinion, Barrage does that better than the Ravage animation.

So give us something like: “Activating Force Leap within 4 meters of target will cause the character to flip over/behind target, striking them twice (same damage, but two quick hits, one on the head, one in the back). Affected targets suffer “Confusion”, which lowers the target’s defense and accuracy by 5% for 3 seconds.

Another option could be to change the Barrage/Ravage into the old Master Strike animation. Still stack-based, so there’s no need to worry about the “Precision time window” anymore with that.

Other ideas for acrobatic changes would be fun.

Dispatch: since it has the potential to pass by enemies anyway, it could be changed to deal a small amount of aoe damage to any targets in its path.

The “many small dashes” is an interesting one, perhaps it pauses just long enough to let one change directions? Or it turns into a “Zig-zag escape” ability instead, going back and forth a couple times before stopping.

Turning mad dash into a backward ability would be interesting as well, or turns into a backflip to reposition oneself in a fight.

Another one I saw mentioned was kinda neat: leg slash. Or turning twin saber throw into a semi-slow that affects all targets. This would have to be well balanced for PvP however.

On the subject of PvP, one change that could help with the overload of slows and roots would be this: “Transcendence now can purge all movement impairing affects for group members within 20 meters, AND gives immunity to such effects for 5 seconds.”

Giving the ability to charge/leap near a target in cover. This does not remove the target from cover, but lands the player within 5 meters of the target. It also still helps give some benefit to cover, but enhances the fight by providing a way to overcome that immunity which cover currently has.

As for the Force Cloak idea: I’ve always loved the idea of Maras and Sents getting a full stealth-out, doing a quick heal out of combat, and then rejoining. I also always considered maras/sents would most likely be very overpowered at that point. I’ll let the PvP balance team decide that one.

Also while I’m thinking about it, Sentinels have a better interrupt animation than Maras do, and that’s just silly. If a Sent gets to Kick someone in the face, a Mara should at least be able to do that. Or something cooler. Idea: maybe a Sent kicks them, a Mara does a flip over them and bashes their skull?

Turn Cyclone Slash into a full 360 ability, slightly lower the damage (maybe....but I’d honestly rather not). But instead of forward slashing, the character simply spins with both lightsabers. Similar to blade blitz/mad dash, just stationary. Still benefits from Precision/Ferocity.

Pacify has the utility Zealous Judgement that reduces Force/Tech damage by 75%, but it can’t be used on bosses. I’d like to see it usable. It doesn’t need to decrease the boss accuracy, but still should give the player the damage reduction benefit. This can simply help with survivability a tiny bit more. Not necessary, but would be a welcome option.

TheSpiceIsRIght's Avatar

04.17.2019 , 02:29 AM | #7
You guys realize dual saber throw slows on live right?
<FAILURE> - Satele Shan
World First Slayer of the Machine Gods

Spasi's Avatar

04.17.2019 , 03:22 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by captainwesson View Post
The “many small dashes” is an interesting one, perhaps it pauses just long enough to let one change directions? Or it turns into a “Zig-zag escape” ability instead, going back and forth a couple times before stopping.
My idea was the ability itself is buffed to make it into a small dash and yes it gives time to pause and you can chain them.Its waay to wild for this game and it would be a coding nightmare but its fun nonetheless.I also fixed the mess i wrote last night.Reread it to see exactly what i meant.

captainwesson's Avatar

04.17.2019 , 09:49 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by TheSpiceIsRIght View Post
You guys realize dual saber throw slows on live right?
Whoops! I never noticed that part. Lol well then strike that.

CVSickle's Avatar

04.18.2019 , 07:22 AM | #10
So this is a pretty simple idea for a tactical item.

I like the old space missions, and the item you had that toggled you between a firing damage buff and a shield Regen buff was pretty cool.

I think it could be interesting to have a "stance change" toggle ability that would buff your damage or decrease you GCD when toggled off, but buff your defense somehow when toggled on.

This could be useful in bosses to get extra damage in when burning, but get some extra survivability when the boss is doing the burning. The buff to damage output would reduce your defense, and the increased defense would come with reduced damage output. Basically, you'd become more effective, but only at the cost of switching your stance with the new abilitiy

Also, I realize this would be extra work, but if when toggling defense my toon held his lightsabers backwards (think the Force Unleashed style), that would help make sure I don't forget the stance I'm currently in (and look AWESOME).