I think we need to open different thread for KDY.

Something like "Crazy Drive Yards"

Its just too much story's coming from there...

I was pondering KDY as a breeding ground for stupid and this thought came to me:

Perhaps it [meaning level-cap players having wrong gear, wrong stats, no idea what their class DOES] is a result of end-game being more 'difficult' than leveling. It is true that the leveling game allows you the opportunity to learn all these things, but it doesn't make you learn them. But once you hit end-game, well, operations and HM FPs, perhaps some Heroics in the dailies, you need to implement these things to succeed without being overgeared or carried through by others. I am not pining for a return to the pain that [so I am told] was original UO/EQ, but maybe the genre needs to hold the 'standard' a little higher in the hopes that more will rise to it?

So myself as my usual operative!Healer and a guildy with an assassin!Tank decide to hit a HM, load into Athiss, find a marauder and an assassin!DPS. Check their gear, raise a quick eyebrow at the assassin having the sorcerer healing 4 piece set but hey, maybe he wanted the force bonus, and he's in 78 mods and enhancements so how bad can it be? Oh boy...

Takes us a while to notice but the assassin is playing ranged. Just ranged. No swings of is sabre to be found. None. We call him out at the final boss and get told something along the lines of "I'm not a marauder idiots". O_o

Since I try to fix rather than ignore the issue after we're done I whisper him about it and after painfully decoding his idiocy it turns out he thought that using any melee attack meant he would have to stack STR.

A level 55, with a 4 piece set bonus, in otherwise 78s, thinking that an assassin needed STR for melee attacks.

I told him politely he was wrong, referred him to the forums and Dulfy, and logged out before my brain suffered further.

I am not pining for a return to the pain that [so I am told] was original UO/EQ, but maybe the genre needs to hold the 'standard' a little higher in the hopes that more will rise to it?

I think it's simply a matter of personal pride. One either wants to carry their own weight in a group setting, or one doesn't care.

Some people come to the forums, ask for advice, read guides, practice, pay attention, etc. These types of players actually care about what they're doing, and want to do a good job.

And then there are others that wind up in Group Finder thread stories

Watching the Commando get knocked off by the first Savrak smash after you explicitly told him that Hold The Line will make him immune. On the first round of panels the Sentinel runs for his panel and continues right off the side.

Luckily both me (the tank) and the healer were Dread Forged geared and knowledgeable so we pretty much two manned it while the DPS played whack-a-mole.

So myself as my usual operative!Healer and a guildy with an assassin!Tank decide to hit a HM, load into Athiss, find a marauder and an assassin!DPS. Check their gear, raise a quick eyebrow at the assassin having the sorcerer healing 4 piece set but hey, maybe he wanted the force bonus, and he's in 78 mods and enhancements so how bad can it be? Oh boy...

 

Takes us a while to notice but the assassin is playing ranged. Just ranged. No swings of is sabre to be found. None. We call him out at the final boss and get told something along the lines of "I'm not a marauder idiots". O_o

 

Since I try to fix rather than ignore the issue after we're done I whisper him about it and after painfully decoding his idiocy it turns out he thought that using any melee attack meant he would have to stack STR.

 

A level 55, with a 4 piece set bonus, in otherwise 78s, thinking that an assassin needed STR for melee attacks.

 

I told him politely he was wrong, referred him to the forums and Dulfy, and logged out before my brain suffered further.

Weirdly, if a Sorceror wanted to spam melee*, stacking strength would actually be necessary. For some bizarre reason, inquisitors/consulars only gain a willpower bonus to melee damage if they pick the assassin/shadow AC. Maybe he only checked the tooltip for melee bonus damage once on Korriban, and never noticed that willpower had started adding to damage once he became an assassin?

*Melee sorc should only be done if you want to be incredibly silly, AND your group is okay with it (probably because everybody's drinking. Man, that was a fun op even if we never got past the second boss). I'm just saying, if you wanted to optimize it some how, your best bet would be to take a set of adaptive gear from a warrior alt and equip that.

For some bizarre reason, inquisitors/consulars only gain a willpower bonus to melee damage if they pick the assassin/shadow AC.

Even more bizarre : inquisitors and consulars actually gain a bonus to melee from willpower. Sorcerers and Sages lose it when taking their AC.

Perhaps it [meaning level-cap players having wrong gear, wrong stats, no idea what their class DOES] is a result of end-game being more 'difficult' than leveling. It is true that the leveling game allows you the opportunity to learn all these things, but it doesn't make you learn them. But once you hit end-game, well, operations and HM FPs, perhaps some Heroics in the dailies, you need to implement these things to succeed without being overgeared or carried through by others. I am not pining for a return to the pain that [so I am told] was original UO/EQ, but maybe the genre needs to hold the 'standard' a little higher in the hopes that more will rise to it?

Knight story:

- plenty of bosses that require you to do this: attack -> interrupt -> attack -> attack -> interrupt -> attack -> interrupt (there's reason why you get 3 interrupts early in the game).

- pretty much the reason why so many people think Valis, Praven and Angral are difficult to beat.

Trooper story:

- plenty of fights where CC or Hold the Line is very useful.

Oh, just as an aside --Irony:

 

PvP in SW: tOR carries little to no penalty on death (except maybe having to run back to where you were, boo-hoo).

 

PvE in SW: tOR penalty-on-death can get really expensive, really quickly.

 

Am I the only one who finds this strange?

PvE is designed to be winnable. It may be difficult at times, but with the right tactics the encounters can always be won with zero casualties. The penalties are there to encourage players to find the right tactics instead of just zerging until the boss dies.

PvP, in contrast, is designed to end in the death of some of the participants. A player of average skill can expect to die approximately as many times as he kills other players. Death penalties are removed to encourage players to engage in combat, even if they are not the top dog.

Best one from yesterday:

Level 20 KC spec'd Shadow who used lightsaber. No, I didn't forget to write "double-bladed".

Shadow used:

- Saber Strike when low on force

- Double Strike

- TK Throw

- kept Force Wave on cooldown religiously

- Stealth once

Didn't answer when asked about his weapon of choice. This person is going to hit brick wall at the speed of light on Belsavis if not earlier.

HM Czerka Corporate Labs. 23K know it all Merc!DPS who had no relics and had "I only got this toon to 55 yesterday [insult, insult, insult]".

Good for you. Next time spend some time doing dailies to get some relics, learn some manners, and maybe you won't need to be carried through next time (and from his achievements he wasn't a poor little new player, just a lazy one).

Though it was satisfying to see him get taken out during Chief Zokar (his random grenade attacks were eating half this guys health, so I was already getting real sick of healing his hide). He stood in a red circle for too long and BAM, no more merc

If I wasn't always playing during the slower times I swear I'd have an achievement for kicking players by now...

Czerka Corporate Labs. 23K know it all Merc!DPS who had no relics and had "I only got this toon to 55 yesterday [insult, insult, insult]".

HM? If it was SM then you can't be serious.

HM? If it was SM then you can't be serious.

sounds like hard mode since the grenades actually hurt and zokar lived long enough to get to the red circle phase

I really love those red circles. I hope they never get nerved since its really nice to learn that red = bad = dead. Can't learn that one soon enough. I'm often amazed that people still are being killed by those circles. Yes you don't have much time to walk out of them but hey ...... how much time does the gravity circle of Corrupter zero give you ;-)

Speaking about CZ. Slightly offtopic since it involves guildruns but its kinda funny to see people getting hanged in the air on Corrupter Zero HM when you tell them about 10 seconds in advance that they need to move out in about 10 seconds. The 1st gravity circle always spawns right after you killed the 1st addwave ;-)

Czerka Corporate Labs. 23K know it all Merc!DPS who had no relics and had "I only got this toon to 55 yesterday [insult, insult, insult]".

 

Good for you. Next time spend some time doing dailies to get some relics, learn some manners, and maybe you won't need to be carried through next time (and from his achievements he wasn't a poor little new player, just a lazy one).

 

Though it was satisfying to see him get taken out during Chief Zokar (his random grenade attacks were eating half this guys health, so I was already getting real sick of healing his hide). He stood in a red circle for too long and BAM, no more merc

 

If I wasn't always playing during the slower times I swear I'd have an achievement for kicking players by now...

I thought you were talking about me for a sec.

I did a random que today for a FP or whatever. Still no idea what it was. But luckily we had one guy leave before it started and the good folks told me I was severely under geared. They were nice enough to point me in the right direction to get properly geared before doing end game stuff. I got my Merc to level 55, first character I made and I been playing since launch So I had no idea what I was doing. Dodged a bullet. Sometimes it's better just to ask before doing something, luckily for me the people I was with were pretty forgiving.

HM? If it was SM then you can't be serious.

Course it was HM (edited in main post to say that). If it had been SM that Merc would have been kicked for his language and I would have pulled a DPS!Companion out. At least Miss Temple is polite

Course it was HM (edited in main post to say that). If it had been SM that Merc would have been kicked for his language and I would have pulled a DPS!Companion out. At least Miss Temple is polite

You think in a SM Czerka FP people have enough time to kick somebody for "language"? Those are usually over by the time the vote's done

You think in a SM Czerka FP people have enough time to kick somebody for "language"? Those are usually over by the time the vote's done

For abusive and foul language directed at other players, yep If I could teach companions to move out if red circles without me manually making them I'd do it in HMs too. It's my pet hate, there's never a need for it (even if the FP is over in a blink).

HM Czerka Corporate Labs. 23K know it all Merc!DPS who had no relics and had "I only got this toon to 55 yesterday [insult, insult, insult]".

 

Good for you. Next time spend some time doing dailies to get some relics, learn some manners, and maybe you won't need to be carried through next time (and from his achievements he wasn't a poor little new player, just a lazy one).

 

Though it was satisfying to see him get taken out during Chief Zokar (his random grenade attacks were eating half this guys health, so I was already getting real sick of healing his hide). He stood in a red circle for too long and BAM, no more merc

 

If I wasn't always playing during the slower times I swear I'd have an achievement for kicking players by now...

The key points here are the attitude and the language. Good enough reasons to kick/let die/whatever.

But the bit about 23k merc, experienced player? Can very possibly hold his/her own. (Though you usually have enough of some sort of comms for relics by lvl 55, so that is a bit odd.)

With new characters I level up I enjoy going in to the HM's with just-barely-recommended (but properly itemized) gear to these things just as I reach 50/55/whatever. However, I'm polite and if I get any comments about my gear, I say that if I'm underperforming, I'll leave, but to give me a shot. Even as tank or healer.

[angrypost]

Three FPs I've done today --all fails, naturally-- had Merc or Mando healers...with tanking stats on their gear.

And no, not the levelling ones either, the level-cap [HARD] versions.

I mean Defense rating, OK, I can kinda see that, along with the Relic of Reactive Warding, as those at least theoretically benefit all classes, even if they're far from optimal for non-tanks.

But Shield and/or Absorption? On a Merc?

So many bads.

Why, in the name of every God that ever was/is/will be are there

So.

Many.

BADS!!

In this game?

Why?

I like to think that I am at least decently competent, but there cannot exist any player that is either good enough, nor yet patient enough to carry this level of fail through all this game's content, all the bloody time.

The same fails, the same reasons, the same loud-mouthed punk know it-all attitudes, the same "1337 PvP'ers!!11111" tanking in PvP damager-gear whilst never stopping bunny-hopping (you move slower doing that in this game, by the way) and getting the group wiped on the same damned content, the same crap guilds whose GMs I can't charge back for yet another 40k creds repair-bills that were 100% avoidable with just a dram of brains...

Dealing with this, it's simply not humanly possible

Why are all too many SW: tOR players so awfully, gratingly, insufferably, hideously bad?

[/angrypost]

Ok I have another weird moment that happened today, actually

Took my sith mara into the daily's today to level her up a bit, rolled KDY, and seemed to have a very good team. Then w/o warning, no chat or nothing, I think one of the healers just left

Me, the dps mara, tank jugg, and a sorc are left going so I hit refresh and we get another.

It happens a second time! Person ups an leaves the group with no warning. Now I'm really confused.

Third time's the charm. Rolled a 52 Healer Sorc, and we cleared KDY in pretty good time, but that was just an odd experience.

I've noticed that lately with KDY. Sometimes people throw a fit, othertimes they ditch after a single wipe, or even if one person dies. Force forbid if the tank (assuming one phased in and you're not commando-tanking or scoundrel-tanking) died because of all the aggro focused on them while dps is burning adds from someone's fumbled knockback.

But it's, for the most part, just KDY.

I dunno-- maybe some people are just tired of dealing with the oddballs running it?

I think some of the people who do weird things in KDY do it on purpose. Few days ago I was in a group that had 3 weird people in they went and clicked consoles in Major fight just because they can. They were all like that "do it! I love it when they rage!".

I guess they try to drive people away from tactical FPs so they can run real FPs. But it doesn't really work if they end up on someone's ignore list.

A few days ago I did a Kuat on my lowbe guardian tank. We had the holy trinity so it should have been an easy run. However 1 of the dps'ers thought it was a good idea to jump in 1st and focus the strongest mobs mostly. Add in that he like his knockback and it wasn't fun to tank on my guardian (only had forcesweep as AoE ability, no AoE taunt or other AoE's yet).

I thought to drop a little hint and I switched to focus stance and typed in chat if could plz switch to tankstance. His answer: "Okey, np" and he switched and went on his merry way acting like a tank. I didn't feel like whispering him about the reason I asked him to tank instead of me so I'll never know if the hint dropped or not

Anyway ... I just came out of a TfB SM pug. After we downed Operator someone did the 'my guild needs me i'm out'-excuse. Ofc its 100% possible that his guild really needed him but I find it rather strange that:

a - Its sunday today

b - It was sunday morning (except maybe if he lived in the US but those are scarse here)

c - it was right after the weekly

d - After we called him out on it he justified it with "You didnt specify a full run when inviting"

e - after I whispered him why he was insulting out intelligence he once again said it was guildy who needed his help

Combine all of this and I call BS The group was very good and it took us only 20-25 minutes to clear the miniboss trash + trash + kephess + the terror.

EDIT:

The best thing I ever saw was an entire guild quitting the ops. Apparently their GM called them out of the ops. It was when DF was still new and pugs wiped horribly at the second boss. Normally people leaving are not a big issue but they were with 6 or 7 people ;-)

EDIT2:

Just did a DF SM pugrun where we noticed a lot of people needing on anything they liked. On the last boss opsleader had enough of it and decided to do masterlooter. In the end there was so much QQ about it. Even tough he gave it away fair. Lol ....

They should change the name of Kuat Drive Yards to "Leeroy's Garage."

(ATT'N: Lowbie Shadow tanks -- I understand that you don't have any real AoE threat-builders other than your knock-back yet, but could you please stop knocking things out of my Sab-Slinger's AoEs after I've dropped them? Thank you.)

They should change the name of Kuat Drive Yards to "Leeroy's Garage."

 

(ATT'N: Lowbie Shadow tanks -- I understand that you don't have any real AoE threat-builders other than your knock-back yet, but could you please stop knocking things out of my Sab-Slinger's AoEs after I've dropped them? Thank you.)

Shadow tanks have AOE-threat since 14 level. It's called Discharge or Force breach.

But unfortunatly some players don't know it