You cant just "brute force" your way through ECSM. Sorry, but it's true. You still need to know the boss fights.

Progress groups are on an so much high level of gameplay that they can brute force through ANYTHING.

Besides NiM is not for the "general public" - it's aimed towards guilds that wants a challenge.

So, Story Mode is not a challenge at all ?

Thanks for proving me : Exactly THIS is the way of eliticist thinking !

Progress groups are on an so much high level of gameplay that they can brute force through ANYTHING.

I understand what you're saying, but you're also assuming that youre running with your Guildies, but even there certain rules have to be observed. Case in point: The Drouks in Explosive Conflict. I have seen level 55 mdps go into the fight against Zorn, which of course leads to them getting wiped because of the Fearful debuff which causes their damage to get reflected right back onto them. The healer burns up all of the Force pool trying to keep the dps up and then the tank dies. Time to wipe it!!

 

So, Story Mode is not a challenge at all ?

Thanks for proving me : Exactly THIS is the way of eliticist thinking !

No SM is not a challenge, if you are struggling with SM it's not because the content is challenging (because it's not) but because the players are challenged (excuse the pun) and why on earth is stating the truth "elitist"??

Sm is *extremely* forgiving to the point of being ridiculous

No SM is not a challenge, if you are struggling with SM it's not because the content is challenging (because it's not) but because the players are challenged (excuse the pun) and why on earth is stating the truth "elitist"??

There are a LOT of challenged people running SM ops then.

You cant just "brute force" your way through ECSM. Sorry, but it's true. You still need to know the boss fights.

I have 4-manned ECSM (1 tank, 2 dps and 1 healer) where I was tanking both Zorn / Toth, same thing with Stormcaller / Firebrand, so yeah, you can brute force your way through. Some guildies 4-manned TfB SM up to and including Dreadguards. We have also 8-manned TfB SM 16-man and 7-manned SV SM with 1 healer. So yeah, it is possible.

SM are a joke. You do not need VOIP for them. Guild can do HM without VOIP, but not PUGs. NiM needs VOIP.

So, Story Mode is not a challenge at all ?

Thanks for proving me : Exactly THIS is the way of eliticist thinking !

What are you trying to imply here? I don't have anything against SM OPs and the people that run them. What you might consider the greatest challenge in the game, I might consider as a pure snooze-fest. It's just a matter of perspective. I'm just pointing out that SM operations are not a challenge. Good for you if you consider SM operations to be a challenge.

In my opinion:

SM = PUGs / casuals, easy to do without VOIP.

HM = Semi-hardcore players that wants a challenge without too much frustration. VOIP is useful.

NiM = More hardcore players that wants a challenge with more mechanics. Requires good understanding of class / rotation / mechanics and team coordination. VOIP needed.

I have 4-manned ECSM (1 tank, 2 dps and 1 healer) where I was tanking both Zorn / Toth, same thing with Stormcaller / Firebrand, so yeah, you can brute force your way through. Some guildies 4-manned TfB SM up to and including Dreadguards. We have also 8-manned TfB SM 16-man and 7-manned SV SM with 1 healer. So yeah, it is possible.

 

SM are a joke. You do not need VOIP for them. Guild can do HM without VOIP, but not PUGs. NiM needs VOIP.

I'm not saying YOU can't do it, but you probably took experienced Guildies who have run it thousands of times. Try doing that with a PUG and see if you can get the same result. You probably will, but you will probably also wipe a couple of times.

For the record, with another guild we've also cleared all World of Warcraft content back in the day until Cataclysm arrived without voice chat.

You did not clear SSC/TK through Sunwell or any of the WOTLK hard mode raids without voice chat unless they weren't current content when you cleared them.

You did not clear SSC/TK through Sunwell or any of the WOTLK hard mode raids without voice chat unless they weren't current content when you cleared them.

Nihilum did

I am not sure it is necessary to discuss usefulness of VOIP in operations in this thread. It does not change the fact that if someone is asking you to have one, you better do or look for another group. Who cares what their motivation is raise your hand?

Now before anyone raises their hand, I don't really care who does.

I am not sure it is necessary to discuss usefulness of VOIP in operations in this thread. It does not change the fact that if someone is asking you to have one, you better do or look for another group.

Yeah, true....so TL;DR, a lot of people require them, so either get one (they're very simple and easy to use, and free) or else just keep trying until you find groups that don't require it.

what folks above me said.

real time communication is invaluable for a successful operation, especially hard mode one. especially since TOR doesn't allow for operations announcement macros (basically, instead of typing in chat, you click a pre typed sentence you saved with one button - saves often necessary time)

in my experience, in TOR most people use either teamspeak or mumble (mumble can be a bit temperamental to set up) both take up very little space on your harddrive and are quick to set up. haven't used ventrilo since I stopped playing WoW (I don't do much content requiring voice in other MMO's I play)

I highly doubt bioware would ever implement in game voice chat, because at this point most people are too used to using their third party programs they can utilize across multiple games on the same account. it would be unnecessary waste of resources.

(and yes, you don't need to have a mice and talk, in fact, most people prefer that you don't - keeps the channel empty for strategy explanations and in fight callouts)

Yes, for HM you need VoIP. The operations were designed around you having the ability to communicate.

I doubt any PUg groups hit HM ops and complete with without some forum of Voip. Only after a large number of completed attempts would I think VoIP might not be needed.

You can get away without having VoIP in SM and it can still be a pain in the arse to not use it but I don't think for HM you want to try the ops without it unless you got some gamers that have done it enough they just know what to do and when and sadly - That just doesn't happen often enough to rely on it.

VoIP is the way to go.

For difficult content, you typically need it. If people don't know the fights, you 100% need it as explaining in chat is cumbersome and slow. There are plenty of fights where the raid leader needs to make a decision and call it out (which pillar to go to in TfB Kephess, when to start ignoring mechanics and burn, whether to fail a phase in Operator, coordinating percentages on two different mobs, etc). Raids also go much smoother when major mechanics are called out, a few reminders can be the difference between a wipe and a win. You can do some of that stuff through chat, but you generally don't have the time to stop and type.

As for why it's not built into the game, people wouldn't use it. Other MMOs have integrated voice chat, and for the most part people still use their own voice servers because they are more flexible, they can admin them themselves, and they aren't tied to the game. They also don't have to conform to game rules, there would almost certainly be some kinds of restrictions on profanity for in-game voice chat, nobody wants to deal with that.