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6.0 Crafting is Ludicrously a complete and total piece of Junk

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
6.0 Crafting is Ludicrously a complete and total piece of Junk

Void_Singer's Avatar


Void_Singer
02.25.2020 , 08:08 PM | #251
Quote: Originally Posted by Transcendent View Post
What were the overall material returns though? Did you see much higher Prototype and Premium materials in the Rich missions compared to Bountiful? Or were they roughly the same?[...].
~4 for Rich, 4.5 for bountiful artifacts... prototype was ~50% more mats from bountiful, and 50% less for premium...

it's quite possible Rich is meant to return more artifact pieces (and should) but that zero tells me that the entire range is being supplied by a single highly random number..... which is odd considering the stability of crit rates even at low counts, I had always assumed they used a double roll, or gausian function to make it behave more predictably*)

*
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phalczen's Avatar


phalczen
02.25.2020 , 09:09 PM | #252
Quote: Originally Posted by Void_Singer View Post
Wrong.

the only change in crit rate for grades 1-10 has been (and still is) the "subscriber bonus" which is +10% for orange difficulty, and +15% for yellow/green/grey..... these were leftovers from the base crit rate before F2P, but removed for F2P players... no other color difficulty modifiers have been in place for crewskils since launch... until 6.0 and grade 11
I have always understood that critical chance was modified by the mission difficulty, such that critical crew skill mission rewards would naturally become more likely as you leveled your skill and mission difficulties changed from orange to grey. I have always been a subscriber so I have never appreciated this to be an exclusive subscriber perk, and unlike other areas of the game, for example GSF, where the benefits of subscribing over F2P are clearly spelled out. There is no visual indication of this that I recall. However I have certainly been wrong before. I would appreciate a screenshot or a link to where the devs said this is a subscriber feature and not a natural effect of leveling your crew skill and missions decreasing in difficulty because of that.

Regardless, there is far more that you and I agree upon than this issue. Personally, I donít think the presence or absence of a stealth change to critical chance beyond the phenomenon I have described is the largest obstacle to crafting in 6.0 becoming fun or even tolerable. However, like I said, there are far more points you and I agree upon than this issue so if Iím wrong about critical chance than so be it.
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DanteYoda's Avatar


DanteYoda
02.25.2020 , 10:47 PM | #253
I guess they ruined it so people would use the cartel?

Transcendent's Avatar


Transcendent
02.26.2020 , 02:17 AM | #254
Quote: Originally Posted by Void_Singer View Post
~4 for Rich, 4.5 for bountiful artifacts... prototype was ~50% more mats from bountiful, and 50% less for premium...

it's quite possible Rich is meant to return more artifact pieces (and should) but that zero tells me that the entire range is being supplied by a single highly random number..... which is odd considering the stability of crit rates even at low counts, I had always assumed they used a double roll, or gausian function to make it behave more predictably*)

*
Spoiler
I had noticed the actual range of numbers was far wider than previous tiers, with no set minimum. Previously you could get something along the lines of 2-8, now it seems more akin to 0-20. They certainly could do with narrowing that range for grade 11, as well as matching the range to be closer to material requirements for the grade 11 crafting schematics.

They've definitely got the ability to tinker with it, we've seen that with the increase in premium material returns, they didn't go anywhere near far enough to compensate for the increased material requirements though. It's the sheer range that is possible that completely kills the crew gathering skills though.

Sadly it isn't much different to gathering in the open world, the nodes don't increase in line with the new material requirements, which then makes the parity between grade 11 and the previous grades in terms of time required far too much.
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Lhancelot's Avatar


Lhancelot
02.26.2020 , 05:48 AM | #255
Quote: Originally Posted by DanteYoda View Post
I guess they ruined it so people would use the cartel?
That's probably the most logical explanation behind their 6.0 crafting "update." They wrecked it from top to bottom. How does this accidentally happen, it's impossible.
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Void_Singer's Avatar


Void_Singer
02.26.2020 , 06:08 AM | #256
Quote: Originally Posted by phalczen View Post
I have always understood that critical chance was modified by the mission difficulty, such that critical crew skill mission rewards would naturally become more likely as you leveled your skill and mission difficulties changed from orange to grey. I have always been a subscriber so I have never appreciated this to be an exclusive subscriber perk, [...].
you can find mentions of the crit rate division for crew skills coing all the way back to 2012, although the original dev explanation of it seems lost to the ages. There used to also be a mention of the reduced crit rate on the F2P comparison page, but the current one on the EA site makes no mention.

things that do change for each color difficulty are failure rate (which was also recently increased in 6.0) for non-crafting crew skills, 0/1/5/10% grey/green/yellow/orange difficulty estimated prior to 6.0 (to my knowledge we never got a dev post on those, they were all community derived).... the new 6.0 values are higher, estimated at +5%. The other thing that changes based on color difficulty is the points awarded towards leveling a crew skill... 0, 1, 2-3, 4 for grey, green, yellow, orange


but you don't have to take my word for any of it, all these numbers are quite easily tested, and are surprisingly stable even at very low sample sizes for grade 1-10.... just as long as you add up the bonuses yourself, because the ingame displays have been wrong since 5.10, and never counted all bonuses anyways.

companion level dived by 2 and rounded down.
Legacy perk
Guild fortune set (there's some bugs with this one)
guild +crit or +efficiency skill
guild bonus perks for specific crew skill types

all those are directly additive

+success amps reduce failure rate
+efficiciency amps reduce time AFTER normal effieciency has been applied

and remember that Crit rate is not a percentage of total attempts, but of total successes (failure rate is rolled first as pass/fail, and crit is only rolled for on a pass)
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Sarova's Avatar


Sarova
02.26.2020 , 12:56 PM | #257
Quote: Originally Posted by Lhancelot View Post
I assume all this math stuff is painting a really inefficient picture regarding the crafting system. I don't even need mathematical proof, though. All I need to do is start trying to craft to realize it's awful.

Crafting should be engaging, I know crafting usually has the reputation of being boring but for many people (like me) I always enjoyed crafting on MMOs and many past games including SWTOR had fairly fun crafting systems.

SWTOR wasn't the best, but it was decent enough to give players many ways to make credits via crafting. Crafting also offered rare armor pieces too, the old recipes that were gained through reverse engineering the armor shells. So there were many useful features crafting offered players on SWTOR.

Then 6.0 happened. With no explanation of why, BW completely gutted and ripped out their old crafting system replacing it with a gigantic cluster-ckuf of a new crafting system. The best part was how players played the crafting system on the PTS and reported their findings immediately, that being the crafting system was illogical and crafting mats were beyond ridiculous in costs now.

Instead of heeding the players criticisms, BW ignored all crafting-related feedback while they were fairly receptive to other feedback related to other new game features BW felt were more important than crafting. It was as if they were told to go total dark on anything crafting-related, because all threads and posts focused on 6.0 crafting was met with crickets by Eric Musco and Co.

Now, months later, crafting on this game is still no longer a feature worth engaging in. And they have nothing to say on it, either. lol. Par for the course, though.
Somebody pin/sticky/broadcast this post as it sums up everything wrong with crafting 6.0 onwards.

Also, I'm stealing cluster-ckuf for repeated gratuitous use Can't believe I didn't think of this before seeing your use of it.
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battycoda's Avatar


battycoda
04.29.2020 , 11:50 PM | #258
Legacy bound 270 drops from just doing the story vs doing MM FPs to make 268s with a 20% chance to RE. Hmmm... I think will craft! (NOT)

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Lhancelot's Avatar


Lhancelot
04.30.2020 , 10:39 AM | #259
Quote: Originally Posted by Sarova View Post
Somebody pin/sticky/broadcast this post as it sums up everything wrong with crafting 6.0 onwards.

Also, I'm stealing cluster-ckuf for repeated gratuitous use Can't believe I didn't think of this before seeing your use of it.
lol I missed this post. ^

Not much difference wityh crafting imo. I still don't even bother doing augs now. I just buy kits and augs from players. I make enough to avoid crafting and messing with it myself as gearing a toon takes some time investment enough, and the tedious nature of crafting is just too much now.

I guess this is subjective though.

I used to craft up until just recently while many quit before that, too. I guess I should say, I met my threshold of patience with crafting and now won't bother with it on SWTOR. Glad others still do it though, lol. I will just buy from them.
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Tsillah's Avatar


Tsillah
05.01.2020 , 04:31 AM | #260
Quote: Originally Posted by Lhancelot View Post
lol I missed this post. ^

Not much difference wityh crafting imo. I still don't even bother doing augs now. I just buy kits and augs from players. I make enough to avoid crafting and messing with it myself as gearing a toon takes some time investment enough, and the tedious nature of crafting is just too much now.

I guess this is subjective though.

I used to craft up until just recently while many quit before that, too. I guess I should say, I met my threshold of patience with crafting and now won't bother with it on SWTOR. Glad others still do it though, lol. I will just buy from them.
Well subjective or not, I think you do have a point. I came back after another long break and one thing I looked at is crafting. The only positive change I've seen, and it is significant, is the increase in conquest mat rewards. That makes crafting augments or anything endgame a lot better.

I still feel that crafting overall is still very expensive and the input is too high for the output in general. You'd have to be a pretty dedicated crafter with a lot of resources to turn a profit out of endgame crafting. And for example the stims are only a small step up from the previous ones but for an enormous price increase. So there is definitely no proper balance in it still.

Since I have all the augment schems I need and conquest mats are easier to come by, it's worth crafting augments again, though I'm more interested in equipping my characters than actually turning it into a profit. So I suspect that I'll be selling them once I'm done outfitting my toons with augments (and I just have 3 characters left I think). Crafting is still not something I enjoy in the new expansion.
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