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Powertech: Tanking and You


Mayol's Avatar


Mayol
02.01.2012 , 09:15 PM | #61
Ok another problem.

I've noticed that most tank builds (including my own) take Blaster Augs. After some playing around I'm fairly certain it's not what it's cracked up to be. Here's a copy pasta from what I posted in another thread about Ion Cell's current state:


=======

First off, Bioware have really screwed up their tooltips. First off, here's the Ion Cell tooltip:

Quote:
Loads your rifle with an ion powercell, giving ranged attacks a 15% chance to deal
390 additional energy damage. Increases armor by 60%, decreases all damage taken by 5% and increases shield chance by 15%. While Ion Cell is active, threat generated is increased by 50%. Only one cell can be active at a time. Ion Jolts can only occur once every 1.5 seconds.
Firstly, it's a 15% chance to deal energy damage. Note at the end of this tooltip, it refers to this extra damage as Ion Jolt. So that's what I call it.

Now look at the tooltip for Ion Overload, the 2nd tier skill in the Shield Specialist tree:

Quote:
Stockstrike now has a 100% chance to trigger your Ion Cell. In addition, when Ion Cell deals damage, it has a 100% chance to shock the target for 125 additional damage over 6 seconds.
From very simple expermentation it's blindingly obvious that all reference to Ion Cell is in fact reference to Ion Jolt. So all the skills referring to Ion Cell are in fact ONLY improving Ion Jolt.

In my Vanguard's case, Ion Jolts should be doing 572 damage, yet they do 153. It is broken. No mob has 75% damage reduction. Also, the damage variance is very low leading me to believe either mob armor is not reducing energy damage like it should, or Ion Jolt is doing elemental damage.

Ion Overload's DoT, in my tooltip, states it will do around 200 over 9 seconds. In reality it does 3 ticks of 89-92 damage, giving around 270 total. This fits pretty well as I have talents to increase damage by 25% and 8%. But again, if it is energy damage as it claims it should be getting reduced by armor and should not be doing 100%.

So yes, Ion JOLT is borked, and Bioware need to change the wording on an awful lot of tooltips and skills to reflect exactly what they improve.

=========


Taking this into account, I'm fairly certain Blaster Augs is ONLY increasing Ion Jolt (and its overload dot) by 8%. Which, in its current broken state, is not very much at all. Around 10dps with my current gear IF it procs every 1.5 seconds and the DoT is up 100%.

I'm thinking putting the point into Pulse Cannon cooldown reduction would be a point better spent until Ion Jolt/Ion Cell is fixed.

Or, if you're going Gut over EB, it'd be much better spent on the Gut/IP +3% damage bonus.

Thoughts?

Acke's Avatar


Acke
02.02.2012 , 07:28 AM | #62
Again, awsome initative to post.

Been reading alot of the posts now and i totaly missed out Power Armour. Sounds way better then Soldiers Endurance i got now. Basically 100dmg reducted on 5k dmg inc. Compared to static +480HP (got 16k hp now).
This build (as posted before) looks PVE rock solid to me:
http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801G0GrdorogzZMsbZb.1

How ever, about the Gut talks.
I wont try that. I cant even emagine where the ads would be when i get to last one to Gutit.

Mortar Voley, Pulse Canon, Sonic Round does the job good enough at HM but that can ofc change to ads at larger "raids".

=)

Escaflownae's Avatar


Escaflownae
02.02.2012 , 10:49 AM | #63
Quote: Originally Posted by Mayol View Post
Ok another problem.

I've noticed that most tank builds (including my own) take Blaster Augs. After some playing around I'm fairly certain it's not what it's cracked up to be. Here's a copy pasta from what I posted in another thread about Ion Cell's current state:


=======

First off, Bioware have really screwed up their tooltips. First off, here's the Ion Cell tooltip:



Firstly, it's a 15% chance to deal energy damage. Note at the end of this tooltip, it refers to this extra damage as Ion Jolt. So that's what I call it.

Now look at the tooltip for Ion Overload, the 2nd tier skill in the Shield Specialist tree:



From very simple expermentation it's blindingly obvious that all reference to Ion Cell is in fact reference to Ion Jolt. So all the skills referring to Ion Cell are in fact ONLY improving Ion Jolt.

In my Vanguard's case, Ion Jolts should be doing 572 damage, yet they do 153. It is broken. No mob has 75% damage reduction. Also, the damage variance is very low leading me to believe either mob armor is not reducing energy damage like it should, or Ion Jolt is doing elemental damage.

Ion Overload's DoT, in my tooltip, states it will do around 200 over 9 seconds. In reality it does 3 ticks of 89-92 damage, giving around 270 total. This fits pretty well as I have talents to increase damage by 25% and 8%. But again, if it is energy damage as it claims it should be getting reduced by armor and should not be doing 100%.

So yes, Ion JOLT is borked, and Bioware need to change the wording on an awful lot of tooltips and skills to reflect exactly what they improve.

=========


Taking this into account, I'm fairly certain Blaster Augs is ONLY increasing Ion Jolt (and its overload dot) by 8%. Which, in its current broken state, is not very much at all. Around 10dps with my current gear IF it procs every 1.5 seconds and the DoT is up 100%.

I'm thinking putting the point into Pulse Cannon cooldown reduction would be a point better spent until Ion Jolt/Ion Cell is fixed.

Or, if you're going Gut over EB, it'd be much better spent on the Gut/IP +3% damage bonus.

Thoughts?
From my tests I've been noticing that the vanguards "threat" is horribly low. I can't switch to another target for more than a few seconds before someone pulls that last target off me. Thats after a full rotation.

They really need to add more threat mechanics to our class. I don't even care if it's just on one skill we are highly lacking in the threat department from my research.
Courage is not the absence of fear, but the strength to do what is right in the face of it.

Need a referral? Here you go

Escaflownae's Avatar


Escaflownae
02.02.2012 , 10:51 AM | #64
Quote: Originally Posted by Acke View Post
Again, awsome initative to post.

Been reading alot of the posts now and i totaly missed out Power Armour. Sounds way better then Soldiers Endurance i got now. Basically 100dmg reducted on 5k dmg inc. Compared to static +480HP (got 16k hp now).
This build (as posted before) looks PVE rock solid to me:
http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801G0GrdorogzZMsbZb.1

How ever, about the Gut talks.
I wont try that. I cant even emagine where the ads would be when i get to last one to Gutit.

Mortar Voley, Pulse Canon, Sonic Round does the job good enough at HM but that can ofc change to ads at larger "raids".

=)
Gut was mostly for holding threat on your focus and secondary focus targets and not and end fight mechanic anyway.
Courage is not the absence of fear, but the strength to do what is right in the face of it.

Need a referral? Here you go

tamagawa's Avatar


tamagawa
02.06.2012 , 08:33 AM | #65
Hi all,

thanks for this excellent guide. It really helped my skills.

While some of you are already discussing high end mechanics let me ask some basic noob questions:

on riot strike you say

Quote:
Riot Strike - this is not a damage move or a threat move... Please please understand spamming it will do nothing. It will not interrupt an instant cast spell even if you hit it at the right time. This is however a great interrupt skill.
I don't really get what you're saying here. What will riot strike do and when is it used ?


Cells aren't metioned in the guide, but Ionized Ignition is talented, which belongs to Plasma Cell. But what I understand from the Cell description is that Ion Cell is 'the' tanking Cell as it increases threat and shield etc.
Why do I talend on Plasma Cell?

Any hints appreciated.

Tama

Escaflownae's Avatar


Escaflownae
02.07.2012 , 07:49 AM | #66
Quote: Originally Posted by tamagawa View Post
Hi all,

thanks for this excellent guide. It really helped my skills.

While some of you are already discussing high end mechanics let me ask some basic noob questions:

on riot strike you say



I don't really get what you're saying here. What will riot strike do and when is it used ?
What I'm saying here is I noticed a lot of vanguards trying to use riot strike as a threat move or in a standard rotation that wasn't in an attempt to interrupt a skill. This skill is an interrupt meaning that it's only purpose is to stop long cast spells\abilities from hitting you if interrupted in time.

Quote: Originally Posted by tamagawa View Post
Cells aren't metioned in the guide, but Ionized Ignition is talented, which belongs to Plasma Cell. But what I understand from the Cell description is that Ion Cell is 'the' tanking Cell as it increases threat and shield etc.
Why do I talend on Plasma Cell?

Any hints appreciated.

Tama
Plasma cell isn't what you want to use for tanking. There is at one point a mention that we can get a talent that benefits all cells ion, plasma, and the other one but that has more to do with just doing extra damage just tanking stats.
Courage is not the absence of fear, but the strength to do what is right in the face of it.

Need a referral? Here you go

pauldevries's Avatar


pauldevries
02.10.2012 , 12:56 PM | #67
I saw a post that mentioned that the GUARD DOES NOT TAKE 50% OF DAMAGE IN PVE - ONLY PVP?????

REALLY? If so, how coudl they possibly define it as such - i assume 90% of players and all those who do not come on the forums would assume they are taking on 50% of the incoming damage on their healer when teh guard is on their healer....

tobarstep's Avatar


tobarstep
02.12.2012 , 08:44 PM | #68
Quote: Originally Posted by pauldevries View Post
I saw a post that mentioned that the GUARD DOES NOT TAKE 50% OF DAMAGE IN PVE - ONLY PVP?????

REALLY? If so, how coudl they possibly define it as such - i assume 90% of players and all those who do not come on the forums would assume they are taking on 50% of the incoming damage on their healer when teh guard is on their healer....
This would be more about reading tooltips carefully. The tooltip for guard clearly says it transfers damage from enemy players. Now, I know a lot of people (even experienced players) totally missed that for the longest time, but it is right there in the description. Such a damage transfer would be suicidal in most PvE boss fights anyway.

Koganei's Avatar


Koganei
02.13.2012 , 02:26 AM | #69
I couldn't find this in the first page so sorry if this has already been asked or if it's just something obvious but I was wondering how important accuracy is as a Vanguard tank. Are our important skills (e.g. stockstrike, hib, etc) affected by the normal accuracy or by the special attack accuracy? Do we need 100% on the 'normal' accuracy for threat gen?
Koganei
<Passion>

GreenLantern's Avatar


GreenLantern
02.18.2012 , 09:25 PM | #70
I've tested Ion jolts as well...some mechanic involving it is broken for sure. Not sure why it's so underwhelming but it needs to be repaired. Also, blaster Augs/SS Damage shouldn't be taken over the Endurance talent post 50 anyway. Both are underwhelming compared to the exponential health increase of End. by %
Gary was here. Ash is a loser!
<Rude Dudes>