You nerf healing because it's to powerful, then you buff operative healers to that they are the new OP class in PvP. Edited April 19, 2012 by Notannos

You nerf healing because it's to powerful, then you buff operative healers to that they are the new OP class in PvP.

 

 

/sign

 

Devs are stupid.

 

Nerf sorc healing to operative level pre 1.2

Buff operative healing to sorc level pre 1.2

 

Next month:

nerf healing overall for every class

buff damage again for ops, marauder, bh

nothing happens to sintanks

QQ on forums

Devs still suck

 

rinse and repeat boys.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Notannos
quote

Their decisions truly take my breath away. These guys never learn. Edited April 19, 2012 by Notannos
not constructive

First off Op healers were considered the underpowered healers, in general, before 1.2. (There are always exceptions to that with good players, but just saying, in general they were.)

Second off the actual nerf was to healing across the board due to expertise. As a scoundrel healer I've noticed my actual output (like main burst heal) is actually LOWER now in warzones.

Also, triage was nerfed (the automatic heal from cleanses). It was halved I think. That starts to add up since the cooldown for it was low.

 

Op healers got quality of life improvements. 3 stacks of upper hand instead of 2 doesn't help THAT much, as having 3 constantly rolling isn't really much better than 2 constantly rolling, as long as it's constant.

 

The only thing that was definitely buffed was the AOE heal, which was really bad to begin with.

 

I will agree we're pretty good in PVP just for our mobility now. But I'm still having a harder time keeping people up when they're focused, than in before 1.2.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Stenrik

As Stenrik said, really the only thing that changed for Operatives were quality of life (less micromanage) and the aoe (more burst, but longer CD). Other than that, they didn't get any healing output buffs.

First off Op healers were considered the underpowered healers, in general, before 1.2. (There are always exceptions to that with good players, but just saying, in general they were.)

Second off the actual nerf was to healing across the board due to expertise. As a scoundrel healer I've noticed my main burst heal is actually LOWER now in warzones.

 

Op healers got quality of life improvements. 3 stacks of upper hand instead of 2 doesn't help THAT much, as having 3 constantly rolling isn't really much better than 2 constantly rolling, as long as it's constant.

 

The only thing that was definitely buffed was the AOE heal, which was really bad to begin with.

 

I will agree we're pretty good in PVP just for our mobility now. But I'm still having a harder time keeping people up when they're focused, than in before 1.2.

 

I can see that with the 50 bracket. So you are most likely correct. Sorry about being to broad in my assessment. However, in the 10-49 bracket (you know, the fun PvP), they are so Overpowered as to be ridiculous. You can interupt them all you want, the only way you can kill them is if another opp.scound takes them on with their 5 interrupts/ stuns.

 

Is Guild Wars 2 out yet?

I can see that with the 50 bracket. So you are most likely correct. Sorry about being to broad in my assessment. However, in the 10-49 bracket (you know, the fun PvP), they are so Overpowered as to be ridiculous. You can interupt them all you want, the only way you can kill them is if another opp.scound takes them on with their 5 interrupts/ stuns.

 

Is Guild Wars 2 out yet?

 

Save your stun for when they're <30% health, as Ops/Scoundrels effectively get free instant casts at less than 30% HP.

Operative/Scoundrel healers seem to be the best all-around healers, IMO. Especially if they're teamed with a sorc/sage that bubbles their teammates - this tends to buy enough time for the Operative's HoT's and slightly weaker activated heals to suffice even against big burst damage attackers and op/scound healers tend to be much tougher to kill for many classes. Merc/Commando healers heal for significantly higher values and have a cooldown that causes them to be immune to interrupts for quite a while. Sorc/Sage healers (though they aren't bad at all if the player is experienced as a heal-spec) seem to be the easiest healers to counter with interrupts and always have been famous for their squishiness onces their bubble is down. If a healer is a good player (regardless of which class), they're still blatantly OP'd, since 1 really good healer can keep their entire team from dying - of course, they can't always keep everyone alive, since they're restricted by range and LoS and lets be honest, they can't be in 3 places at once on many occasions - and there are exceptions to keeping everyone alive with only one healer if the enemy has a lot of burst damage and their teammates aren't doing much to bother keeping themselves alive.

They just fixed it.

 

I'm sorry a healer can actually heal in PvP.

Operatives are the only class that can't survive getting focused, so it's just a matter of people playing the game incorrectly. Operatives have the most healing done (not necessarily the best at saving people), and the other healers are better at clutch heals and PVP objectives.

I can see that with the 50 bracket. So you are most likely correct. Sorry about being to broad in my assessment. However, in the 10-49 bracket (you know, the fun PvP), they are so Overpowered as to be ridiculous. You can interupt them all you want, the only way you can kill them is if another opp.scound takes them on with their 5 interrupts/ stuns.

 

Is Guild Wars 2 out yet?

 

Hmm I haven't been on the <50 bracket in awhile. In general people on these boards will assume you're talking about the 50's one so it would be good to specify.

Actually, I would imagine that ALL healers are doing more in the <50 bracket since they don't have to contend with the uneven boosts from expertise, but I'm not positive about that since I don't fully understand the bolster.

 

I would also venture to guess that you're fighting a really good op healer. Most ops new to healing use their long, channeled heal too much and are very easily shut down by interrupts. The better ones use HoT's on everyone in order to get the procs required for their instant heal.

 

Also the more teammates they're around, the harder they are to kill. Why? Because the more HoT's they have rolling at once, the more they get their instant burst. If you focus them long enough that the HoT's on everyone wear off, they will run out of procs and won't be able to instant-cast heal on themselves. They will die quickly without resorting to their long-casted heal, which is easily interruptable.

Also, don't interrupt Diagnostic scan - it's usually used as a weak bait to get people to waste their interrupt.

 

But unless it's an alt or someone who just knows what they're doing, you'll probably have an easier time killing them than that.

 

Their defensive cooldowns are fairly weak, and their green dodge shield doesn't work against force attacks, so you can use that to your advantage if you can.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Stenrik

They just fixed it.

 

I'm sorry a healer can actually heal in PvP.

 

What? They changed healers with today's patch? I'm at work so I don't know what other potential changes might've occured besides wz rewards. But lots of healer QQ since 1.2 and I actually find most good healers still being hardcore. Sure, the undergeared healers are weak - but that's because everyone undergeared is weak.

Operatives are the only class that can't survive getting focused, so it's just a matter of people playing the game incorrectly. Operatives have the most healing done (not necessarily the best at saving people), and the other healers are better at clutch heals and PVP objectives.

 

Operatives are vulnerable to big burst damage classes and stun-locks, I agree. But sage/sorc healers seem to go down quicker under the same circumstance. Pretty much the only solo specs that can really light an operative healer up is carnage marauder due to roots/heal debuff + high burst damage during gore or dps geared tankasins with a proper stunlock and certain smash jugg specs. Their mobile healing is enough for them to LoS most powertechs (and they can purge DoT's/slows/debuffs). They're definitely the most difficult for a sorcerer to kill 1v1, but it CAN be done - it's just not worth all the time/force.

Operatives are vulnerable to big burst damage classes and stun-locks, I agree. But sage/sorc healers seem to go down quicker under the same circumstance. Pretty much the only solo specs that can really light an operative healer up is carnage marauder due to roots/heal debuff + high burst damage during gore or dps geared tankasins with a proper stunlock and certain smash jugg specs. Their mobile healing is enough for them to LoS most powertechs (and they can purge DoT's/slows/debuffs). They're definitely the most difficult for a sorcerer to kill 1v1, but it CAN be done - it's just not worth all the time/force.

 

As a Sorc and Operative that have played both rolls, I can talk a bit about this. For me on my Operative (2p WH, 6 augment slots, 18k buffed HP), Pyro's are bar-none-not-even-close the hardest class to survive against. Purge isn't awful, but it just doesn't really do as much as you'd expect. Their snare is reapplied so quickly its silly. I can dispel it 3 times in 5 seconds (two tox scans, one evasion) and its right back on the next GCD. As a Sorc healer, I actually far better vs them because of force speed and that I usually will be running with either elec bindings or WW.

 

As a Sorc DPS, I actually kill Operatives a bit easier than Sorc healers. When I'm dps, I roll with CT which can help keep them in LOS. The biggest issue is that Sorc healers can interupt FL, while Operative healers are normally out of range for that.

 

Overall, I've found in 1.2 that my sorc fares better in the Hybrid role (ie, put up 150k dmg/250k healing with more group CC and utility). While my Operative does a bit better in raw healing, especially on single targets. In groups, it can do well when your energy regen cd is available, otherwise you can fall behind and be energy starved in intensive fights.

Edited April 19, 2012 by alanisUDL

Operatives are the only class that can't survive getting focused.

 

Clearly you've played against very poor operatives.

***This is for pvp only not pve***

 

I think the entire issue is the expertise vrs dmg bonus vrs healing bonus. Then the ridiculous SW/JK dmg increase. that truly unbalanced pvp in swtor. I'm a pvp vet, 5 years on WoW and I have seen a lot of pvp unbalancing. Like shammys, locks and currently in WoW disc priest. 1.2 imo turned swtor into a fotm (flavor of the month) game. Op healing was the most difficult heals to learn in the game. Bh heals, ez to learn and play because you can't die. Sorcs heals were considerably harder than bh heals but as a sorc's you (could)* chain burst heal. Where Op heals could only cast 2 big heal spells without having to take a break. (yes i'm aware of injection, then probe rotation).

 

The quality of life changes, that were spoken about before, in previous forms, are just things the game should have launched with, like 3 stacks of TA. Ops don't heal well without TA (due to talents). If they really wanted to fix the issue of TA stacks, they could have made it so when you have 2 stacks of TA and the buff timer hits zero, you drop to 1 TA instead of 0 TA. which reminds me, bring back the audio que for TA, having to watch your bars to see if your HoTs gave you a TA is crap. You run around a lot in pvp having to look at your bars instead of what's going on in front of you is a huge handicap.

 

Back to why I started this post. The expertise balance is broken. Being able to do more dmg then heals by almost 6% is ridiculous, when you are in equal pvp gear, heals, dmg, and dmg reduction should be equal for all class types. Tanks and heals shouldn't get boned by dps in equal pvp gear. A test you could try in pvp, take your FoTM sw/jk and duel a healer any class in equal gear. If the healer can last 15-30 seconds you have balance, (although the healer will die and has no chance at beating a dps 1v1) and yes use skilled players. That can kite, slow, and los.

 

I challenge anyone who disagrees with the expertise imbalance to play a lvl 50 pvp healer, and see how quickly you get rolled. Other evidence to how unbalanced pvp healing is. On my server there is a good balance of pubs and imps, we use to have a abundance of healers on both sides. Now you are lucky if their is one healer per pvp match. Plus, pve healers have disappeared. If you are on the fleet you can read all the calls for HM healers. IMO the changes in 1.2 broke the games balance for pvp.

 

This forum is a plead for help from BW to balance pvp. You won't see a lot of threads on this topic because most players are jk/sw which BW buffed, and of course they are happy they can destroyed healers without any effort. I'm asking you to balance pvp, I love Star Wars, and I have been waiting for this game for almost 2 years. I don't want to stop playing.

Clearly you've played against very poor operatives.

 

No healer can consistently escape two DPS with similar gear/abilities as the healer. Operatives get their vanish on a 3 min cooldown, or their AoE mez (breakable on damage) on a 1 min CD.

 

Sorc can spec into Electric bindings and Backlash if they choose to, as well Force speed.

 

Mercs have heavy armor and their KB that slows, as well as their uninteruptable cooldown.

 

None of these classes last alone vs two equally-geared and talented DPS when any of these escape mechanisms are on CD.

Operatives are the only class that can't survive getting focused, so it's just a matter of people playing the game incorrectly. Operatives have the most healing done (not necessarily the best at saving people), and the other healers are better at clutch heals and PVP objectives.

 

Most laughable thing I've ever read. Other healers are better at clutch healing? Really? sub 30% and you spam them until the other dps that's killing them is dead and you don't think that's clutch?

 

Really guy?.....really? Let's look at this from a "team" perspective: Your buddy who is sub 30% is yelling on vent to save him. Your dps teammates run to his aid to save him because the reason he's not dead = Surgical Probe Spam + hots + instant AOE (Granted it doesn't heal for much, but it's still instant). If a sorc was healing him, he'd be dead because the sorc would've been blown the hell up. (He would've got a bubble off at least? WOO, one save per 17 seconds) The merc would've lasted a little longer, but the teammate would've died because their instant scan heal is only usable what...every 21? seconds (not sure, I know it's near that) and they would've heat capped before it was useable again. Meanwhile, an operative healer has Flash Bang (buys time to top off) and the best mobility heals in the GAME + the major deciding CLUTCH heal of Instant free Surgical probe spams sub 30%.

 

As for your focus fire comment: Everyone dies to focus fire, but the amount of people // classes on you that you can survive through is a world of difference. Operatives will usually die 2v1 in the current game state (before it was 3) where as mercs and sorcs are easily soloable by the majority of classes in the game.

 

Operative healers have always been ridiculously good because of their mobility. (I know a few that could kite 2 people with ease and never die while healing their team pre 1.2.) Now you just see them more because the other healers have re-rolled DPS or Op/Smugs. Like I said before, Sorcs are stupid easy to kill because they can't heal through 1v1 damage at all and Merc's will eventually heat cap themselves.

Movement is and always will be the major factor in PVP healing. If rated WZ's did go live, all you would've seen is 2 operative healers + -insert marauder/tanksin dps here

How bad is your DPS if you can't burst down a Sawbones who is just spamming EMP while their HOTs tick? I mean, EMP does about 3k if it crits, considerably less if it doesn't. Double stacked HOTs is ticking for perhaps 1.5k every 3 seconds. So, that means you need to be doing 7.5k damage every 2 GCDs if everything crits which it never will. If you have two DPS attacking a healer and you aren't doing 2k damage each per GCD (including dots, etc., if necessary) then the issue is with you.

 

Against two competent DPS I can kite them and survive for quite a long time but I'm not going to be coming even close to killing them and I will go down as soon as I have to eat a 4s stun. Now, against average DPS myself and a good tank can survive against 5 people for quite a long time but again we aren't winning the fight and, frankly, a tank+healer should be able to survive for a while - it's what they are designed to do. If those 5 average DPSers are actually good the survival time will go down considerably as they CC me while hitting the tank.

 

Really, Sawbones healers aren't that good against people who know how to fight us. We have mobility but no way to save somebody who is getting properly focused (3 DPS focusing can take down a target in maybe 3GCDs. It takes at least one GCD before I can even see somebody is being focused, probably two because somebody on 60% health won't immediately set alarm bells ringing if other people are also taking damage. I can then throw out a UWM and hope that it crits - if it doesn't the person will be dead before I can fire off another and EMP doesn't heal for enough to make a difference on a target taking heavy damage unless they are also guarded/taunted.

 

TLDR: Sawbones healers are only really tough to take down if we are guarded and another healer is also nearby. If you run into me when I'm with a Tank and a Seer... then I'll seem immortal unless you bring a coordinated group of the same size to the fight.

No healer can consistently escape two DPS with similar gear/abilities as the healer. Operatives get their vanish on a 3 min cooldown, or their AoE mez (breakable on damage) on a 1 min CD.

 

Sorc can spec into Electric bindings and Backlash if they choose to, as well Force speed.

 

Mercs have heavy armor and their KB that slows, as well as their uninteruptable cooldown.

 

None of these classes last alone vs two equally-geared and talented DPS when any of these escape mechanisms are on CD.

 

Sorc utility skills that require giving up full healing potential. Yea. Mercs. Knockback with a slow, scary. Why is he getting force choked by that guy he just knocked back? Nevermind, he's dead.

 

Now, against average DPS myself and a good tank can survive against 5 people for quite a long time....

 

Rated warzones are going to make forum qq priceless.

Meanwhile, an operative healer has Flash Bang (buys time to top off) and the best mobility heals in the GAME + the major deciding CLUTCH heal of Instant free Surgical probe spams sub 30%.

 

You are overestimating how much healing SP actually does. It certain helps a bit, but it is far from I-win. I'd still trade it for the bubble any day of the week.

Most laughable thing I've ever read. Other healers are better at clutch healing? Really? sub 30% and you spam them until the other dps that's killing them is dead and you don't think that's clutch?

 

I play an Op healer and I to top healing every game, I know what I'm talking about here. Probe spam doesn't keep anyone alive, but things like 3k sorc bubbles do.

Really guy?.....really? Let's look at this from a "team" perspective: Your buddy who is sub 30% is yelling on vent to save him. Your dps teammates run to his aid to save him because the reason he's not dead = Surgical Probe Spam + hots + instant AOE (Granted it doesn't heal for much, but it's still instant). If a sorc was healing him, he'd be dead because the sorc would've been blown the hell up. (He would've got a bubble off at least? WOO, one save per 17 seconds) The merc would've lasted a little longer, but the teammate would've died because their instant scan heal is only usable what...every 21? seconds (not sure, I know it's near that) and they would've heat capped before it was useable again. Meanwhile, an operative healer has Flash Bang (buys time to top off) and the best mobility heals in the GAME + the major deciding CLUTCH heal of Instant free Surgical probe spams sub 30%.

 

You don't play an operative it seems to me. Probe rarely ever saves anyone under 30%, it just keeps them alive long enough for another healer to actually do the topping off. Operatives are sustain healers, they can't have massive HPS on single targets without a lot of GCD's. Operatives steadily heal an entire op with hots and random surgical probes but they definitely don't save anybody alone. I hit 700k healing all the time by throwing hots everywhere but probe spam or even kolto infusion spam won't save anyone. You don't have time to hot someone when they're under 30% either.

 

As for your focus fire comment: Everyone dies to focus fire, but the amount of people // classes on you that you can survive through is a world of difference. Operatives will usually die 2v1 in the current game state (before it was 3) where as mercs and sorcs are easily soloable by the majority of classes in the game.

 

Not everyone dies to focus fire. Sorcs have their bubble, a knock back, and a sprint. Commandos have there jesus mode shield, a knock back, and uninterpretable heals. Operatives are forced to heal through damage which is usually impossible without help.

 

Operative healers have always been ridiculously good because of their mobility. (I know a few that could kite 2 people with ease and never die while healing their team pre 1.2.) Now you just see them more because the other healers have re-rolled DPS or Op/Smugs. Like I said before, Sorcs are stupid easy to kill because they can't heal through 1v1 damage at all and Merc's will eventually heat cap themselves.

 

Operatives are good at raw raid healing, but the other classes are better at everything else. Single target healing, pvp objectives, etc.

 

 

Movement is and always will be the major factor in PVP healing. If rated WZ's did go live, all you would've seen is 2 operative healers + -insert marauder/tanksin dps here

 

Everyone bases their opinions on the derp unorganized PVP that's going on right now. When ranked warzones go live the top teams will be mostly classes with knock backs and sprints because that's how you win the objectives. One operative healer is good for the raw healing, but if it's huttball you'll want the sorc/merc there to knockback and sprint. If it's voidstar or novare you want the knockbacks for bridges and cliffs.

 

TL;DR: people think OPs are OP because they get the highest healing done when winning at PVP is far more than the charts.

Ops/Smugs are the only healers worth having in pvp right now.

Ops/Smugs are the only healers worth having in pvp right now.

 

zzzzzzz

 

People are in for a rude awakening come ranked warzones.

Ops/Smugs are the only healers worth having in pvp right now.

 

False.