bryceman Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 So when I take a gander at the balance tree, I see a bunch of stuff that seems like a waste for a operation like the top ability Sever Force. I have always gone up to the talents that make the dots hit harder then go on over to tele to get the faster tele throw casts. Can someone explain to me why picking up sever force would be worth giving up a faster tele throw AND possible faster force regen with Concentration? I parse pretty well and if going full balance might add some dps then I am willing to change some things up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerJBD Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 (edited) So when I take a gander at the balance tree, I see a bunch of stuff that seems like a waste for a operation like the top ability Sever Force. I have always gone up to the talents that make the dots hit harder then go on over to tele to get the faster tele throw casts. Can someone explain to me why picking up sever force would be worth giving up a faster tele throw AND possible faster force regen with Concentration? I parse pretty well and if going full balance might add some dps then I am willing to change some things up. For starters, concentration is useless even in the hybrid build. TK Throw is your filler in either full balance or the top parsing hybrid (1/12/28). Using Disturbance, even with a Presence of Mind proc, is a DPS loss from just spamming TK Throw. Using Disturbance for force regen is just a complete waste. Whatever build you choose (assuming it isn't full TK), dump concentration, stop using Disturbance, and you will see an increase in your DPS. As for why someone would prefer a full balance build, Sever Force is a better ability than you think it is. It has a very high damage per cast time, and in operation encounters like Toth and Zorn or Firebrand and Stormcaller, being able to throw Weaken Mind and Creeping Terror on both bosses vastly increases your DPS. Also, it can be cast on the run, which makes a full balance spec more mobile than the hybrid, where you have to stand still to channel TK Throw more. The hybrid is a bit easier because you use so few abilities and have one less DOT to track, but I prefer full balance and get slightly better DPS out of it than the hybrid build on most boss fights. Either way, the difference in DPS between full balance and the 1/12/28 hybrid is slight. So use whichever one you prefer. Edited February 10, 2013 by SoonerJBD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibbon Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 So when I take a gander at the balance tree, I see a bunch of stuff that seems like a waste for a operation like the top ability Sever Force. I have always gone up to the talents that make the dots hit harder then go on over to tele to get the faster tele throw casts. Can someone explain to me why picking up sever force would be worth giving up a faster tele throw AND possible faster force regen with Concentration? I parse pretty well and if going full balance might add some dps then I am willing to change some things up. First, everything Sooner said - totally agree. Personally I chose to go full balance. It really is a matter of tracking your dots and not clipping them. On tanks in EC I can easily pull out 1900+ DPS. It is one of a few fights where I really shine because spreading dots picks up good dps. The timer on weaken mind is about the same as two cooldowns for sever force - so that helps track your dots fairly effectively. Rotation might look like this on tanks: WM - SV - WM - FiB - TT - MC - SV - TT - TT - TT - repeat, etc, etc I usually kite the tanks as well so sometimes need to interrupt a TT and throw in a project. on one target it is a little bit more watchful since you do not want to refresh your SV when it is only half worn off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerJBD Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 The timer on weaken mind is about the same as two cooldowns for sever force - so that helps track your dots fairly effectively. Even better, the cooldown on Sever Force (9 seconds) is exactly half of its duration, meaning you throw it on one target, throw it on the other right when it comes off cooldown and repeat. You never have to worry about clipping it if you use it off cooldown on both targets. Weaking Mind is a little tougher to track on two targets. It is difficult to be perfect refreshing Weaken Mind while not screwing up the rest of your rotation, but if you can manage it, you can pull sick DPS. My favorite fight with a full balance build is Nightmare Jarg and Sorno. I can pull ridiculously high DPS in that fight because of the double dotting and hitting them both with FiB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryceman Posted February 13, 2013 Author Share Posted February 13, 2013 Thanks for the feedback guys; I was using hybrid for the longest time but after trying out full balance, I think it is a little more useful for ops since you get another dot. My last question is how do you manage force effectively? I find myself on the longer boss fights on the very low end of the force spectrum and I do not want to end up losing dps because I don't have the force to get something off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerJBD Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 You really shouldn't run low on force unless you are using your bubble or project too much. Make sure you don't clip your dots, both to maximize DPS and conserve force. Also, let your TK throw channel completely. I put two points in Inner Strength, which makes my TK throw generate force. Never run into problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryceman Posted February 14, 2013 Author Share Posted February 14, 2013 (edited) You really shouldn't run low on force unless you are using your bubble or project too much. Make sure you don't clip your dots, both to maximize DPS and conserve force. Also, let your TK throw channel completely. I put two points in Inner Strength, which makes my TK throw generate force. Never run into problems. I only run into issues on fights that require a lot of aoe damage like the first boss of TfB or Kep on EC NiM. Force quake just ruins my force supply. Also I do not use project unless I am on the move and do not have the proc for a instant disturbance. The only time i ever use project in my standing rotation is on a burn phase AND only have a fast rock throw proc. I usually sneak it in right after the fast rock throw happens. Edited February 14, 2013 by bryceman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerJBD Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 I only run into issues on fights that require a lot of aoe damage like the first boss of TfB or Kep on EC NiM. Force quake just ruins my force supply. Also I do not use project unless I am on the move and do not have the proc for a instant disturbance. The only time i ever use project in my standing rotation is on a burn phase AND only have a fast rock throw proc. I usually sneak it in right after the fast rock throw happens. You also shouldn't be using disturbance. It is a DPS loss from simply spamming TK Throw. If you can time it right, movement is the right time to refresh your dots. Force Quake will deplete your force somewhat, but you shouldn't be running out on the Writhing Horror fight. You should only need 1 or 2 force quakes for the little adds assuming at least someone else in the group has decent AOE. You have to balance how often you use force quake in the trandoshan phase on Kephess. You can use a couple, then use TK throw to regenerate a little force and give your resources a breather. You can also use noble sacrifice for a quick regen. Use your self heal right after a couple of noble sacrifices and it is essentially like free force regen. I don't know where all your points are. Some people put three points in Clamoring Force for the boost to Mind Crush, but I prefer those points in Inner Strength as the DPS loss from losing Clamoring Force is very small and allows me more flexibility in using project and force quake in certain phases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theRaiders Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 As Full Balance I parse over 1800 on Ops dummy - and I compete and have beaten top sentinels that parse well over 2000 on Ops Dummy as full balance in our Raid groups. My guildmates are surprised how well i can do in Ops with my sage. Even though everyone typically gets more DPS on Kephess in TFB - I run around 2600 DPS on that fight alone, and over 1650 on other bosses in TFB, including consistently hitting over 1M damage on final boss in TFB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimusMagnus Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 As Full Balance I parse over 1800 on Ops dummy - and I compete and have beaten top sentinels that parse well over 2000 on Ops Dummy as full balance in our Raid groups. My guildmates are surprised how well i can do in Ops with my sage. Even though everyone typically gets more DPS on Kephess in TFB - I run around 2600 DPS on that fight alone, and over 1650 on other bosses in TFB, including consistently hitting over 1M damage on final boss in TFB. Hey what is your rotation on this build? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theRaiders Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Hey what is your rotation on this build? Thanks. I could tell you, but would have to /stuck you...JK MC --> WM --> FiB --> SF --> TT x4 (rinse + repeat) use potency for FiB + first TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimusMagnus Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 I could tell you, but would have to /stuck you...JK MC --> WM --> FiB --> SF --> TT x4 (rinse + repeat) use potency for FiB + first TT I know you said use potency for FIB and the first TT. However, how would the rotation look like with my Dread Guard of Boundless Ages Relic +350 Power and my or my Exotech Attack Adrenal 535 Power for 15 seconds into my rotation? Sorry to be a pain in the butt, but I am trying to maximize my DPS? Thanks again, I really appreciate the advise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khak Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 (edited) ok what i prefer to do is as you are casting mind crush have your fingers over your cd keys (or whatever they are bound to) and then as you cast wm pop all your cd's(fp, relic, mental alacrity(if on pts or post 2.0), and adrenal). Why you ask? well they are not bound to the gcd so activating them while wm resets the gcd saves precious seconds spent clicking them and more time casting your rotation . then go through the rotation like the previous guy said. If you are a visual learner I will link you this video from elidhu(the #1 dps sage in the world arguably) who explains it all probably better then I can without talking to you over a voice chat system http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmIrJUu8NoE I will also like to point out this is referring to a full balance or hybrid bal/tele spec rotation. this is not the best starter for telekinetic spec for obvious reasons. Also the video i linked is from elidhu parsing on live not the pts. However, I think it explains your question Edited March 9, 2013 by khak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theRaiders Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 I know you said use potency for FIB and the first TT. However, how would the rotation look like with my Dread Guard of Boundless Ages Relic +350 Power and my or my Exotech Attack Adrenal 535 Power for 15 seconds into my rotation? Sorry to be a pain in the butt, but I am trying to maximize my DPS? Thanks again, I really appreciate the advise. I always lead with my relic + adrenal...so the potency gets the best crit. However, during fights like Kephess in EC NiM i hold my adrenal + relic for the walker drain phases. Otherwise, like this: relic-adrenal-mc-wm-FP-fib-sf-tt x4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimusMagnus Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I always lead with my relic + adrenal...so the potency gets the best crit. However, during fights like Kephess in EC NiM i hold my adrenal + relic for the walker drain phases. Otherwise, like this: relic-adrenal-mc-wm-FP-fib-sf-tt x4 I implemented these changes, and I noticed a nice spike in my DPS. Thanks again for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theRaiders Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I implemented these changes, and I noticed a nice spike in my DPS. Thanks again for your help. Anytime - and for the secret sauce, what other relic do you use with the on-use dread guard power? If you are not using the Dread Guard elemental proc relic, I would highly recommend getting that ASAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimusMagnus Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Anytime - and for the secret sauce, what other relic do you use with the on-use dread guard power? If you are not using the Dread Guard elemental proc relic, I would highly recommend getting that ASAP. Yes, I am currently using the Dread Guard elemental relic. Good thing I read Elidhu's post before purchasing my relic. I would have been soooo pissed if I purchased the wrong one. Would you happen to have the BIS link? I wanted to make sure I get the correct level (61 or 63) Mods, Armor and enhancements for my Sage. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sekketh Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 best Relics are the Elite war hero ones i use boundless ages Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theRaiders Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 (edited) best Relics are the Elite war hero ones i use boundless ages I strongly beg to differ for PvE ...for PvP yes, go with Elite War Hero, but 110% sure not for PvE. For PvE go with Dread guard Bountless Ages (Power on-use) and Dread Gaurd Proc Relic for elemental damage increase. Edit: My opinion above is based on a balance build for DPS Edited March 15, 2013 by theRaiders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJNJ Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 The DG proc is better when you only dotting 1 boss. The EWH power relic gets exponentially better the more people you are fighting. To outright say that DG proc is the best I feel is false. Granted I'm lazy as hell so I run a proc and an EWH relic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerJBD Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 The DG proc is better when you only dotting 1 boss. The EWH power relic gets exponentially better the more people you are fighting. To outright say that DG proc is the best I feel is false. Granted I'm lazy as hell so I run a proc and an EWH relic I see where you are going with this. You are suggesting that because the proc is limited in how often it can go off, if you are dotting multiple bosses, you think the additional power is best. But the numbers show otherwise. The DG proc and DG power clicky are better DPS regardless of how many enemies you are fighting in PvE. The difference in DPS between the proc relic and the EWH power relic just isn't close enough that multi-dotting makes much of a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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