Okay. I will say this. The HUD for GSF could be better.

The ship type descriptions are misleading.

The fact that ships are always moving forward rather you want them to or not makes certain tasks more difficult then they should be. The methods on how to do basic things are not explained well or accurately. It's all trial and error learning and the zero communication makes it a worse learning curve.

Okay. I've played about 10 matches and I'm already done with it. I've won 8 out of the 10 matches. However let me sum up what experienced from all 3 ship types.

First the Strike fighter.

It is just fast enough to get into a dog fight but feels painfully slow. It's missile locking also painfully slow. It's missiles are what makes it must useful as it's kinda pathetic in dog fights. The Strike fighter feels slow and is difficult to keep up.. With well anything except the Gun ships..

The gunships or the blimp sniper as I think of them.. Okay here's an idea. Make the largest ship be not only the slowest ship but also make it's primary weapon the weakest. Give it long range gun that can actually hit ships. But make the hits so weak that they'll fly out of line of sight before you can make a single kill with it. All well everything and everyone can get the drop on you because the sniper zoom takes away the HUD with the warning and all the jaz to warn you that your in trouble. Yeah annoy players by calling the over glorified sniper ship with weak weapons "The Gunship" Describing it as a heavy fighter. Don't even think of using it for a dog fight. You will be out maneuvered by a kite.

The Scout... The only ship that's accurately described. Fast, agile, small, not as durable as the others. It's true. However the problems with the scout which are present on all ships.. Are amplified to an extent. It's fast.. Too fast for it's own good. Okay an example. I was in a Dog fight with an empire strike ship. I was on his tail. Now the real kicker he used his slowness to get away. (I know your thinking "Wait what?") Okay All ships are always moving forward regardless what your facing or even if it's in your best interest to stop. I was so close to the Strike fighter that I could read the "How's my driving" sticker. So I discovered the slowest you can go is not the same on all ships. I was slowing and doing everything possible to not get closer.. I was trying to stop and I ended up passing. Simply because the Strike fighter can go even slower.

The two aiming recitals is clunky and not very elegant and confusing to first timers. It took me a moment to realize the fixed middle one was not the real one but rather the smaller one that moved all over the place was the real one.

To capture a point you have to destroy 3 fixed npc turrets.. Which is made harder by the complete inability to stop moving forward and just hover. Then you gotta get really really close to the structure which is tricky especially given you have no ability to stop and hover.

Now.. Why would I be complaining about an PVP system where I won 8 out of 10? Let me explain why.

First 2 out of the 10 matches I topped the kills. With 2 and 3 kills. That's right 2 and 3 kills! Why are kill counts so low? Okay the biggest player killer is the environment. More often then not somebody is killed by colliding into a building or rock then they are by a dog fight. It's very difficult to maintain a dogfight for any length of time and the simple reason is afterburners. First response to taking any hit is to just hit the afterburners and get away. Which isn't very hard. The down side is 90% of the match you are just flying around landing a hit on an random enemy only to have them spooked and have to choose another target when they get away..

The only guns being fired that consistently damage and make kills are the turrets it seems.

I've had more fun and less head ache in regular warzones even with a much less generous win ratio and whining on chat.

The point is. GSF is a boring addition to the game. Not very well thought out and quite frankly a downgrade from the regular space missions. The rail shooters. Yeah I know. The rail shooters? They're more fun? I wouldn't call them exciting but yes they're more fun. Why because GSF is that disappointing.

next time you play... Try pressing X

(even better, next time you play something for the first time, try reading the instructions)

next time you play... Try pressing X

 

(even better, next time you play something for the first time, try reading the instructions)

You mean the tutorial that tells you only how to customize your ships and queue up? Or did you mean the little description that tells you to win the game you need to control the three points until you reach the goal amount of points first?

Because those instructions were exactly what were needed. (Yeah I'm being sarcastic.)

Pressing X allows you to come to a complete stop and hover.

Also, this was in the tutorial,OP, If you'd pay attention, you'd know how to stop.

On the side note - personally I don't like GSF either, played a couple of games, won most, just like you, never doing it again. Maybe it's just me, but the current mode seems like just Alderaan Civil War in space, and pretty boring as well. Controls - mouse sensitivity working very differently then in normal play, making it a nightmare to aim and steer. At first I lowered it in the game settings, but I'm not a person who sits on fleet, I'd rather do stuff while waiting for groups, and having to alter setting every 15 mins is putting me off. Also, the overcrowded HUD - it's a fact. Probably other issues I had with it yesterday, but I simply threw it out of my mind by this morning.

Anyway, not saying that it's bad, just that it's not expanding my game in any way, and from what I see, I'm not alone in this.

You mean the tutorial that tells you only how to customize your ships and queue up? Or did you mean the little description that tells you to win the game you need to control the three points until you reach the goal amount of points first?

 

Because those instructions were exactly what were needed. (Yeah I'm being sarcastic.)

Though it sounds like it might be too little too late, there was a pretty comprehensive playable tutorial level that explained most of what you're talking about.

Kill counts are probably going to climb as people get more familiar with GSF and start upgrading their ships, as well.

But, I appreciate that it's not everyone's cup of tea. I'm not even sure if it's mine yet!

Why are people bashing this update so much? Yes it take a learning curve to play this. Yes this takes a small amount of skill to play. If you don't understand a game try to understand its mechanics, don't bash the game; it is your fault.

My only problem is that we can't inspect anyones ship I made mine so cool but no one can see it b.c I'm so fast and I destory them equally as fast.

Okay. I will say this. The HUD for GSF could be better.

 

The ship type descriptions are misleading.

 

The fact that ships are always moving forward rather you want them to or not makes certain tasks more difficult then they should be. The methods on how to do basic things are not explained well or accurately. It's all trial and error learning and the zero communication makes it a worse learning curve.

 

hit X and your ship will stop completely. You're always to turn your ship still but you'll turn very slowly.

 

Okay. I've played about 10 matches and I'm already done with it. I've won 8 out of the 10 matches. However let me sum up what experienced from all 3 ship types.

 

First the Strike fighter.

 

It is just fast enough to get into a dog fight but feels painfully slow. It's missile locking also painfully slow. It's missiles are what makes it must useful as it's kinda pathetic in dog fights. The Strike fighter feels slow and is difficult to keep up.. With well anything except the Gun ships..

 

The strike fighter bring very heavy damage at the cost of sub-par mobility. The main tip I can give you is buy the ion gun as your opening weapon. Switch to another gun as soon as the shields are down. most players will be dead before they have a chance to try to get away.

 

The gunships or the blimp sniper as I think of them.. Okay here's an idea. Make the largest ship be not only the slowest ship but also make it's primary weapon the weakest. Give it long range gun that can actually hit ships. But make the hits so weak that they'll fly out of line of sight before you can make a single kill with it. All well everything and everyone can get the drop on you because the sniper zoom takes away the HUD with the warning and all the jaz to warn you that your in trouble. Yeah annoy players by calling the over glorified sniper ship with weak weapons "The Gunship" Describing it as a heavy fighter. Don't even think of using it for a dog fight. You will be out maneuvered by a kite.

 

The gunship is great in dog fights, but it requires you get a few upgrades first. Before then it's best to hang out 10 - 15km away the objectives and pick off targets your team is fighting. Think of the gunship as a quick snope FPS player, when it comes to mid and close range fights.

 

The Scout... The only ship that's accurately described. Fast, agile, small, not as durable as the others. It's true. However the problems with the scout which are present on all ships.. Are amplified to an extent. It's fast.. Too fast for it's own good. Okay an example. I was in a Dog fight with an empire strike ship. I was on his tail. Now the real kicker he used his slowness to get away. (I know your thinking "Wait what?") Okay All ships are always moving forward regardless what your facing or even if it's in your best interest to stop. I was so close to the Strike fighter that I could read the "How's my driving" sticker. So I discovered the slowest you can go is not the same on all ships. I was slowing and doing everything possible to not get closer.. I was trying to stop and I ended up passing. Simply because the Strike fighter can go even slower.

 

I tend to play the scout as a hit and run ship. Avoiding getting myself into 1 vs 1 fights; rather I change targets often which leads to multiple targets trailing after me (easy for my team to kill) while I focus on the targets that are still following my team.

 

The two aiming recitals is clunky and not very elegant and confusing to first timers. It took me a moment to realize the fixed middle one was not the real one but rather the smaller one that moved all over the place was the real one.

 

To capture a point you have to destroy 3 fixed npc turrets.. Which is made harder by the complete inability to stop moving forward and just hover. Then you gotta get really really close to the structure which is tricky especially given you have no ability to stop and hover.

 

1.) Tip: always check the option menu before you play a game. If you did you would have the list of keybinds for skills.

 

2.) Strike fighters can boost all power to weapons and take down the turrets before they can get a shot off, if they're quick enough. While the gunships can take the turrets down from 15km away.

 

Now.. Why would I be complaining about an PVP system where I won 8 out of 10? Let me explain why.

 

First 2 out of the 10 matches I topped the kills. With 2 and 3 kills. That's right 2 and 3 kills! Why are kill counts so low? Okay the biggest player killer is the environment. More often then not somebody is killed by colliding into a building or rock then they are by a dog fight. It's very difficult to maintain a dogfight for any length of time and the simple reason is afterburners. First response to taking any hit is to just hit the afterburners and get away. Which isn't very hard. The down side is 90% of the match you are just flying around landing a hit on an random enemy only to have them spooked and have to choose another target when they get away..

 

There are many ways to temporarily EMP the enemy. Making escape impossible. The scout does this the best. While the fighter and gunship have the DPS to just kill them before they have a chance to get away.

 

The only guns being fired that consistently damage and make kills are the turrets it seems.

 

Give it a few days and the skill level of the "average gamer" will improve, then you'll see less suicides and then people will be on the forums complaining that turrets aren't enough protection.

 

I've had more fun and less head ache in regular warzones even with a much less generous win ratio and whining on chat.

 

Optional content, take it or leave it

 

The point is. GSF is a boring addition to the game. Not very well thought out and quite frankly a downgrade from the regular space missions. The rail shooters. Yeah I know. The rail shooters? They're more fun? I wouldn't call them exciting but yes they're more fun. Why because GSF is that disappointing.

For many this is the best thing we'll see in a long time since the old star wars flight sims got canceled. It may not be as good but it's still very entertaining.

Why are people bashing this update so much? Yes it take a learning curve to play this. Yes this takes a small amount of skill to play. If you don't understand a game try to understand its mechanics, don't bash the game; it is your fault.

My only problem is that we can't inspect anyones ship I made mine so cool but no one can see it b.c I'm so fast and I destory them equally as fast.

Enjoy the fact that only you can see the pretty pixels?

Why are people bashing this update so much? Yes it take a learning curve to play this. Yes this takes a small amount of skill to play. If you don't understand a game try to understand its mechanics, don't bash the game; it is your fault.

My only problem is that we can't inspect anyones ship I made mine so cool but no one can see it b.c I'm so fast and I destory them equally as fast.

No one here bashing anything, just people expressing their opinions of it and sharing whether they like it or not, that all.

A lot of the issues in the OP can be addressed with upgrading components i.e. turning thrusters to increase maneuverability. I reckon give it some time, see how upgrading affects your ship, then review again.

I personally am enjoying the hell out of this, and find the controls intuitive. But I've played as a pilot in BF3 and Planetside 2 and ARMA3 so it all kind of makes sense for me.

In regards to the point about kills, I love that the kill counts are low, it makes it satisfying to get them .

OP I honestly do not feel as you do. A lot of SWTOR gamers like me have been wishing for this since release. I for one have been enjoying this xpack and have spent the entire day que for GS. These are some of the things I like about the Xpack

1. the wzs are huge and there is plenty of LOS opportunities making skill and challenge possible and a requirement.

2. its not a button smashing free for all.

3. low rez times, your not spending a lot of time behind a barrier.

4. its not a overly frustrating experience.

5. its not a CC fest.

6. NO BOLSTER, you put the time in and upgrade your ship.

7. its not discriminative about lvl, you can que up at lvl 1 and join with all lvl 1-55 so less que times, or in theory it should be short.

8. Not FOTOM apparent or dependant to win the match.

9. the possibilities of what they can add to it is endless, im thinking of figher vrs capital ship or ranked guild vrs guild capital ship / fighter vrs capital ship.

to be honest I think this is BWs best work to date and they did a fantastic job on this xpack.

I like how the OP suddenly disappeared after making a HUGE fuss about not being able to stop, then mocking people who told him to press X (the actual way to stop lol)

Classic/

No one here bashing anything, just people expressing their opinions of it and sharing whether they like it or not, that all.

Not many ship models, some take cartel coins, thumb pad or joy stick =( horrid controls.

Just canceled my sub.

I like how the OP suddenly disappeared after making a HUGE fuss about not being able to stop, then mocking people who told him to press X (the actual way to stop lol)

 

Classic/

Gave me a chuckle, lol.

The system could do with some improvements but it's still easily the most fun i've yet had in TOR.

My 2 pew pews.

You mean the tutorial that tells you only how to customize your ships and queue up? Or did you mean the little description that tells you to win the game you need to control the three points until you reach the goal amount of points first?

 

Because those instructions were exactly what were needed. (Yeah I'm being sarcastic.)

No, I mean the tutorial mission that you seemingly skipped and proceded to go straight into actual combat.

And the results were as expected because of that...

No one here bashing anything, just people expressing their opinions of it and sharing whether they like it or not, that all.

Well I would call it bashing when someone plays the game without reading the instructions and then comes to the forums complaining about things that they would have known if they just bothered to pay attention.

I mean, most of his complaints were actually centered around the "fact" that you couldn't actually stop the ship... which you can.

And the rest of the complaints seem to boil down to learning how to play. And I hate saying L2P to people, but the OP needs to practice some more so he understands what the roles of the different fighters are...

The tutorial certainly does need some polishing - it in no way prepares you for an actual match.

I think it was a mistake not to have at least a few PvE missions to allow people to train on and get used to the controls and gameplay before diving into the real-deal. This is essentially the equivalent of rolling a new toon and plunging into a warzone right after the character customization screen.

That said, many of the OP's points are simple misunderstandings due to the harsh learning curve that comes along with this content. I'll repost some tips I posted in another thread:

• Turn down "camera look sensitivity" in preferences to a very low value (mine is at 2%)
   
  
• Remap F1-F3 buttons to mouse buttons 3-5 (I put weapons power to mouse button 4, shields to button 5, and engines to button3) - F4 can just stay (it is essentially worthless to run around with balanced power)
   
  
• Try to find someone who appears to "know what their doing" and follow them around as a wingman - you'll be less likely to be picked off than if you're by yourself
  

The tutorial certainly does need some polishing - it in no way prepares you for an actual match.

 

I think it was a mistake not to have at least a few PvE missions to allow people to train on and get used to the controls and gameplay before diving into the real-deal.

Apparently, there was a problem with the AI for PvE. I just hope they get it sorted and start releasing PvE content for GSF.

That said, without mob AI, that tutorial is probably as good as it's going to get.

Also, nice list. I agree with all points

Apparently, there was a problem with the AI for PvE. I just hope they get it sorted and start releasing PvE content for GSF.

Yeah they have said that, but really - the turrets in PvP seem to have reasonable AI. They could have at least had you capture 3 nodes in the tutorial with an increasing number of turrets that actually fire back at you like they do in a match. I don't see how that would be too tough to pull off.

The tutorial could have been lengthened to include both maps as well, to give players a chance to fly around the battlefields and check out the layout. The Kuat Shipyards node seems to be especially problematic for new players - navigating in and around the infrastructure there. Allowing you to do that without someone chasing you would at least give a new player a chance to hone thier flying skills a bit before the pew pew starts.

Yeah they have said that, but really - the turrets in PvP seem to have reasonable AI.

Yeah but turrets are stationary.

3-D space pathing is hard to get right. I mean look at the ground pathing of mobs, you couldn´t say these are very smart.

Birds don´t fly 6-axis style but use the same ground pathing as the mobs. Look at Makeb if you throw down birds somewhere they are actually using the stairs to get back up to you.

Even a space sim like X-Rebirth doesn´t get the pathing right all the time. Ships bump into stations or get stuck somewhere.

The only games I remember which got the 3D pathing right in a convincing way, were the Wing Commander and X-Wing series.

Now imagine multiplayer space PvE with co-op or even mobs+PvP scenarios, those NPCs would need a really sophisticated artifical intelligence.

Lol..OP! Did you even bother to try the actual tutorial?? You know the one that teaches you how to actually fly and explains quite well how to do it?

I dont think you did. You just put your head in the sand and rushed in there because you thought you would be a natural at flying around didint you?

Well whatever you did, I think its a bit premature even bother doing a thread about how dissapointed you are, before you have actually tried to learn to play it.

Impatience, sloppiness and inexperience is your enemy here mate, not GS itself.

Yeah but turrets are stationary.

But they are proven to be capable of shooting back - that's existing AI tech that could have been utilized in the tutorial. Better than nothing for training imo.

But they are proven to be capable of shooting back - that's existing AI tech that could have been utilized in the tutorial. Better than nothing for training imo.

As I explained above, making a turret shoot at some coordinates is not the difficult part.

Making a NPC ship move around in six axis 3D space, adjusting speed, deciding who to attack, avoiding 3D objects are the difficult parts. The AI in GSF is just a barebone, but you don´t need much more in a PvP warzone anyway.

I don´t see PVE happening anytime soon, and if it would happen it would certainly be something very different than warzones to queue up.

GS is just an extension of arenas/warzones.

What you want is Jump to Lightspeed (yeah I want that too)