RL politics shouldn't come into this at all, but it may affect business decisions. This issue is really divisive in general in the US right now, but much, much less so among younger people - the larger audience for these games.

And if there were big media hooplah, so what? That's free advertising.

Short version is that a lot has changed since March, which is the last this has been mentioned. There is concern over how this has affected the promised inclusion of this content.

I would mind the silence less if we'd had a response here, rather than needing to be naughty and make threads in General Discussion to get one.

It is also ... I'll go with "disappointing" that the Community Team, when it does reply, does so anonymously and in a manner that prevents said reply from appearing on the Dev Tracker which we are told to watch for updates.

There really is a different degree of non-reply here. Questions regarding this content are quarantined here. What information is doled out comes indirectly, to other threads, in a manner that can't be tracked and can't be associated with any person responsible.

I understand that sensitive topics need to be handled with care, and accept that BioWare might feel the need to move cautiously on that account. But there is such a thing as discrimination, and it is a bad thing. If this material -- and information regarding its implementation -- is being treated differently, and deprecated, because it regards sexual orientation, well... that really does push it into that category.

BioWare ought to understand that this looks bad.

I agree with a lot of what you wrote, Iosdia, but there are a couple of things I kind of take exception to...

Bioware has the shining reputation for gay friendly games, less becuase of genuinely positive gay character existing in there games, but rather becuase the standard in games is so low that by having any gay characters present in a role other than the most offensive camp equivalent of minstrels can be seen as positive. In any other form of media Bioware's stable of gay characters would have been slammed by critics for portraying negative stereotypes. So, uh, yeah, It'd be just great if they'd quit acting like we were whiny kids asking for a new flashpoint and some pimpin' armor with like force flames n' stuff.

They aren't that bad, seriously. Not compared to the straight characters, anyway. And you know why that is? Characterisation is a side issue in most Bioware games. The focus is usually on the main character, and romances and companion story lines are secondary considerations. There are a couple of characters (or instances of a character's actions) that have made me grind my teeth in frustration (like Sam's shower scene in ME3, or Serendipity from DA2 especially in MotA, or the armourer couple in DA:O), but on the whole there's nothing overly offensive about Bioware's serious portrayals of non-straight individuals. (I actually don't have a problem with the all-female race (Asari) idea, others may differ on that.)

Having said that, even if the SGR content was ready I'm not sure I'd want them to release it right now. America is just too crazy with the election right now. When it does come out it will be news. There will be videos of Jedi boys kissing on CNN with people from the PTC and FVRC there to explain about how the "homosexual agenda" is further encroaching upon the traditional family by promoting the gay lifestyle to children. All the while PR representatives of EA will sit there looking blank as they've spent so many years as whipping boy apologists to the media watchdogs on issues of gratuitous violence in games that they have no idea how to come out as promoters of something positive. Then someone from the RNC will say something, then someone from the DNC will respond to them, and then everyone will go indiscriminately crazy. It'll be this whole thing. Seriously though, I do doubt we will hear anything new about SGR until the post-election political cool down.

That is very American-o-centric thinking. You do realize that America is not the centre of the universe, right? I really don't think Bioware's decision whether or not to include SGRA content this year hinges on the American election. (This conversation is probably going to get the thread moderated...)

I just think not all companions are inclined to bisexuality.

Kaliyo is clearly bi, Jaesa (DS) could be. But I can't see Doc responding well to flirts coming from a male.

But once this is sorted out, I'm totally in favour of same sex relationships.

Speaking as someone who lives in America, and works in public policy; I don't even think it's healthy that the current American Politics influences events in the US let alone anywhere else in the world. That doesn't mean they don't though. If you compare the population of the US to everywhere else the game has been officially

released, guess which one is larger? USA! USA! #1 WHOOOO! I have no idea of the actual numbers, but I would guess at least half of the current subscribers are American just by the relative percentages of population. So, yeah, I think EA is probably going to be keeping a keen eye on the current climate in the country where a large percentage of it's customers live. It is a blatant lie that there is no such thing as bad publicity. All it'll take is for TOR to become known as "That Gay Jedi Game" and suddenly EA has a problem. As in teenage boys all over the country quitting after having to deal with their friends going "Dude! I can't believe you're playing that gay jedi game! You ***!"

All it'll take is for TOR to become known as "That Gay Jedi Game" and suddenly EA has a problem. As in teenage boys all over the country quitting after having to deal with their friends going "Dude! I can't believe you're playing that gay jedi game! You ***!"

Are you forgetting the fact that we've already had the "gay Jedi" controversy? Right wingers over there have already been up in arms about homosexuality in SWTOR - yes, they were complaining about it even while there was none to be had.

This may well backfire on them (the wingnuts) later when it does get introduced and turns out to be a completely optional non-issue for everyone else.

So, yeah, I think EA is probably going to be keeping a keen eye on the current climate in the country where a large percentage of it's customers live.

My point, and Zandilar has already alluded to it, is that the current political climate in America shouldn't make a scrap of difference. They've already had the Gay Jedi Game controversy and BW:A remained firm on it being a non-issue.

Are you forgetting the fact that we've already had the "gay Jedi" controversy? Right wingers over there have already been up in arms about homosexuality in SWTOR - yes, they were complaining about it even while there was none to be had.

 

This may well backfire on them (the wingnuts) later when it does get introduced and turns out to be a completely optional non-issue for everyone else.

Yes, I do remember the "Transsexual Darth Vader" thing. It is a fairly standard tactic surrogate groups for the Family Research Council use. It is a smarter tactic than you'd think too. The idea is that some tiny, but suspiciously well funded, group raises a big stink about something coinciding with the initial announcement of a major gay friendly media project (at this point the slightly more respectable PTC will express support for the FRC surrogate group, and condemn whatever it is they're upset about. Drawing some initial media attention to the whole thing). Then the small group (for TOR it is IIRC South Florida Family Values Coalition) will declare a boycott. Then immediately prior to the premiere the Parent's Television Council will fully step in trying to create a mass protest and drawing a ridiculous amount of media attention (the real purpose of this is as near as I've ever been able to tell to give them a chance to go on all of the major news shows and say "your children" and "gay" as many times as possible in a two minute segment). The main reason this is done like this is that the real FRC (a group that is now on the Southern Poverty Law Center's list of Anti-Gay Hate Groups) is never involved, allowing it to maintain its (very shaky) image as a high brow political think tank above such things base tactics. Plus, to the completely uninformed, it looks like the larger groups like the PTC are only steeping in to help out some small town family values group defend their right to raise their children in the way of their choosing in the face of amoral corporate whatever... bleh. If you're really interested in the inner workings of this kind of thing check out pretty much any book by David Brock published after 2001.

Anyway, my point about the election is that the PTC can usually manage to get about two days worth of news coverage out of something like their complaint about TOR. If it becomes part of the news cycle while the campaign is still going on though, some intern for the Romney campaign will tweet about it and suddenly those two days becomes two weeks worth of insane coverage like the recent chik-fill-a thing. If that happens I doubt it would be a fun couple of weeks for TOR players...

There is a new thread discussing same-gender content currently open on General Discussion, started by a newcomer rather than any of us usual suspects. You can find it here. I have suggested to the Community Team that it might be a better place to contain the ongoing discussion than in this unending thread on Story and Lore which, after eight months, is still desolate of any Community Representative response. If it is still open when you see this, I hope you will take time to post.

God that thread devolved quickly, haters of the idea just have to go in and derail the thread so it gets locked...

Thread locked by community team, reason: a thread about this topic already existed.

Well it grew to 21 pages in 7 hours, that is like the fastest growing thread we have had in general discussion in a long time.

and.... thread was closed once again

Hello everyone.

 

Because a thread about this topic already exists, we'll be closing this thread in order to consolidate discussion. We encourage you to join the existing discussion of this topic here.

 

Additionally, we have had to remove several posts in this thread for inappropriate content and rudeness. We wish to ensure a safe, friendly environment for our online community. When posting, please remember to remain respectful and within the guidelines of the Rules of Conduct.

 

Thanks!

Well it grew to 21 pages in 7 hours, that is like the fastest growing thread we have had in general discussion in a long time.

That means that it got attention so it was successful in my opinion. It got its message sent.

Finding it hard to come up with a reason why this is avoided like the plague by cms/devs.

I'd like to know if it's been scrapped (if its been scrapped, which seems likely) due to resources or is it not compatible with the lowest common denominator (f2p).

If they said that SGRA have been delayed along with other story content due to the sudden implementing of F2P, though I would be disappointed, I would most importantly be understanding. But this continuing silence is starting to make me feel we're being Joss by them instead.

I have no problem with it, but I don't think it's coming. I don't think they are going to pay all the necessary companion voice actors to come back and do those parts, any more than they are going to pay them to come back for a 4th chapter. At this point we'll be lucky to get substantive game-play content.

I was just checking in to see if the same gender relationships have been added yet. Meh, guess not.

I have not played in about 5 months. I logged into the game a few months ago ... disappointed.

I don't understand how people think the devs need to bring back the voice actors for this "change"... This was something that was to happen on launch. The voices would have been done already.

This whole thing erks me. If it is not added by the end of the year, I'm done with the game (not like I'm playing it anyways). Not renewing my subscription. Yes, it is that important to me. I'm tired of this already.

If they said that SGRA have been delayed along with other story content due to the sudden implementing of F2P, though I would be disappointed, I would most importantly be understanding. But this continuing silence is starting to make me feel we're being Joss by them instead.

A little info would be nice. I will be ok for as long as I have a new alt see the story for. Want to experience all the classes, and then my fav ones will be replayed with a female-female relationship in order to see something new. It is the story-part of this game that got me hooked personally. And I very much look forward to new companion-convos and a new story-arc. I would understand if it had been delayed for a bit, but it would be nice to know that.

I most often start a new bioware game playing a female protagonist with a male companion. But after a few runs through the game it is fun to explore a different romance-arc with a female companion to see something new. Loved FemWarden and Alistair in DA:O, but also enjoyed FemWarden and Leliana very much. Same goes for FemShep and Kaidan verses FemShep both Liara and Samantha Traynor. The moment we get new romance-arcs I will happily start a new character to experience it. But I'm lucky in the fact that I have plenty of classes to play until then, so I'm not stressed for it immediate implementation. Keeping all fingers crossed that there will be some info on it soon.

i feel kinda bad, my repeated requests for different species choices feels kinda childish and stupid now.

No no, not at all. We should all get the chance to express a desire for new features to be implemented. That's what the forums are for.

Realistically nobody needs to visit the forums in order to play the game. We only come here for two reasons - communication and information. Currently, from the developers, we're not getting anything much of either - none of us are, no matter what our issues with the current game are.

One of the things that confuses me the most about vehement, vitriolic and venomous detractors of this matter, to be quite honest, is that they don't seem to comprehend that we're all in the same boat. We all have the same main problem of not getting enough information out of the developers.

Calls of 'shut up and get back in your box' seem utterly illogical to me, no matter what people think about the actual feature being requested, and seeing people demand SGRAs be given little to no attention because it's something 'only a loud minority wants' also stuns and sours me.

Statements like 'work on things everyone will enjoy' are totally erroneous. I won't enjoy any PvP-related feature they put in because I don't PvP and I greatly dislike even the chance of accidentally flagging by wandering too close to an enemy medical outpost (like I did on Hoth). But I still support the calls for more info on, and more implementation of, PvP options because I feel they deserve an answer, and because I want people to have things in this game that they'll enjoy even if I won't. And I find it disheartening that so very often doesn't work in reverse.

I think we should be working together on this, right across the board. I've considered making a new thread specifically on it but I don't really want to watch it dissolve into a hideous bout of bigoted ranting before getting trimmed and deleted. Currently I don't see Bioware giving people any real incentive to start new inquisitive and supportive threads.

But if everyone right across the forums started supporting each others' calls for information then no matter where the devs and community team members went they'd see the same thing - people calling for information and supporting each others' calls for information too. Calls for SGRA information, PvP information, new species information, space battles information and so on - it's not hard to ignore a few voices ina mad jumble but if everyone is saying the same thing there's no way they can fail to hear.

I was just checking in to see if the same gender relationships have been added yet. Meh, guess not.

 

I have not played in about 5 months. I logged into the game a few months ago ... disappointed.

 

I don't understand how people think the devs need to bring back the voice actors for this "change"... This was something that was to happen on launch. The voices would have been done already.

 

This whole thing erks me. If it is not added by the end of the year, I'm done with the game (not like I'm playing it anyways). Not renewing my subscription. Yes, it is that important to me. I'm tired of this already.

This is how I feel as well. Especially with TSW and GW2 being more LGBT inclusive. *sadness*

I have used the "Report Post" button on the closure post to request that the thread on Genera Discussion be re-opened, for the reasons I raised here, and asked that the Community Team reconsider how this subject is restricted on this forum.

Do I expect any result? Not at all. I have learned from experience that the Community Team gives this subject no response, whether we post there and here. But I am going to make sure they know how I feel about that. Politely, of course.

I have used the "Report Post" button on the closure post to request that the thread on Genera Discussion be re-opened, for the reasons I raised here, and asked that the Community Team reconsider how this subject is restricted on this forum.

 

Do I expect any result? Not at all. I have learned from experience that the Community Team gives this subject no response, whether we post there and here. But I am going to make sure they know how I feel about that. Politely, of course.

For what it's worth best of luck!