I'm not saying they don't have some use, but I don't think they're well made.

 

The click-defense relics (particularly for guardians), only provide a 3.75-4% increase to defense chance for 20 seconds out of every 2 minutes. The same potential amount of time that proc-defense relics can be used.

 

Which, if procs occur as frequently as they, the proc-defense relic will be up for the same amount of time, but this is where it gets tricky. Chances are they won't proc every time all the time they're able to, so there will be less time. But they are the only relics with +defense on them.

 

Then you have the shield/absorb-clicky relic, or the absorb-proc relic... Both of which don't seem to be useful for a Guardian/Jugg tank. But on the other hand I am prioritizing defense so much that it is surely highest into the diminishing returns so I would want to get something that gives me boatloads of not-defense, right?

 

... These relics suck. I wish I just had a relic that gave me a +25% chance to dodge for 5 seconds every 2 minutes. Or a +~50% chance to shield for 5 seconds. Then I'd actually have another cooldown.

Guardians have cooldowns out the butt. We don't need more. Relics should be more or less used on cooldown to make life easier overall for your healers, unless something crazy is coming up and you need to pop and stack everything you've got.

I had a very firm understanding that's how it should go. I was more asking which of the options is the best for a guardian? None of them look particularly good.

I had a very firm understanding that's how it should go. I was more asking which of the options is the best for a guardian? None of them look particularly good.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=655108

 

Answers your question quickly and concisely, and answers it for every class, not just one.

None of them look particularly good.

 

If you don't think any of them look particularly good, it's because you don't really understand them.

 

First off, the def proc relic is friggin' amazing. Assuming you're actually tanking something, the cycle rate between procs is *roughly* 25 seconds (it's a 30% chance upon being *attacked*, not dodging an attack so, on average, it takes ~3 attacks for it to proc on you). This means you're packing about a 25% uptime, which equates to over 150 defense on average (specific amounts depend upon the rank of the relic) on top of the passive defense it provides. That's a *lot* (more than what you get out of any single other piece of gear).

 

Secondly, *never* use the def use relics. The def relics are terrible, mainly because they have a 20 second duration compared to the shield/abs relic's 30 seconds. *Yes*, Shield/Abs is less comparatively useful for Guards and VGs, but the extra 10 seconds has a *huge* impact, not to mention that it affects F/T as well as M/R.

 

No relic is going to be "omg, this is disgustingly amazing!". For comparison's sake, their total contribution is generally in-line with what your belt and bracers provide. If you think that none of them are *good* options, then you need to actually look at them (and actually do some math rather than make arbitrary assumptions)

Edited July 9, 2013 by Kitru

If you think that none of them are *good* options, then you need to actually look at them (and actually do some math rather than make arbitrary assumptions)

 

First, thank you for your input.

 

Second, jump up my butt. I did the math, none of them looked good. Now granted I didn't see that the absorb/shield is 30 seconds, but I purchased all of the relics (after reselling them back to regain the token), and I looked at a before/after effect of how much my stats actually increased by %, and they were all very pitiful.

Second, jump up my butt.

 

You're the one coming onto the forums to whine about how terrible you think the relics when they're perfectly fine. Just because you make flawed assumptions about how much they *should* provide doesn't impact the fact that they provide a very tangible and useful benefit.

 

I looked at a before/after effect of how much my stats actually increased by %, and they were all very pitiful.

 

Just because they're not massive buffs like the standard CDs doesn't mean that they're pitiful. Hell, they're not even supposed to really be compared to them. On my Shadow, I don't compare the healing proc relic to Harnessed Shadows, and DPS don't compare the damage proc relics to any of their attacks. You're talking about a piece of *equipment* here, not a fundamental aspect of a class. No single piece of equipment is supposed to completely boggle the mind because they're all intended to be incremental advantages. 5% higher Shield and Absorb for 30 seconds every 2 minutes might not seem like much, but, in practice, it's actually very effective. ~7% additional defense for ~25% of the time is a crapton.

You're an acerbic jacknape who only came in here to lord over your higher expertise. I was looking for advice, and you use that to leverage an ego boost for yourself by pointing out how little I know.

 

Shame on you.

You're an acerbic jacknape who only came in here to lord over your higher expertise. I was looking for advice, and you use that to leverage an ego boost for yourself by pointing out how little I know.

 

Shame on you.

 

Actually, I hang around here to help people become better at the game and learn as much as they can about it. I don't get an ego boost about any of it. I find the information itself and the community interesting enough to take part in.

 

Of course, I'm not going to say that I don't have an abrasive personality, especially when I'm dealing without someone who is well out of their depth while thinking they know what they're talking about. Pretty much anyone on these forums will tell you that I have strong tendency to conversationally wail on people that don't know what they're talking about, and, comically enough, many people find it to be a rather endearing trait since I, apparently, treat people legitimately asking questions and admitting to their own ignorance with a surprising amount of patience.

 

You're the one that started a thread complaining about how *terrible* the relics were without actually knowing enough about them to actually make an educated decision about any of it. I corrected you and matter of factly told you that you had a completely flawed interpretation of the relics as well as obviously getting the math wrong. I never insulted you beyond telling you that you didn't know what you were talking about (which is patently obvious and less of an insult than it is a factual observation).

 

Conversely, you decided to guess my intentions as a self-aggrandizing show off with a need to inflate my own sense of self importance by correcting someone when they got something wrong rather than someone with little patience for idiots complaining about things they have no reason to complain about and is active in correcting misinformation and ensuring that useful information gets spread to anyone interested in learning it.

 

Next time, I suggest you have the humility and maturity to realize you're wrong when corrected rather than throwing a tantrum and casting aspersions about someone just because they didn't coddle when you were explicitly wrong and they corrected you (though I do applaud you for the most excellent use of "acerbic jacknape"; I found it most amusing especially since I often describe myself in a very similar manner).

 

If you had asked what the best relics were and why, I would have provided an answer with a coherent and comprehensive explanation for each of them. I just really don't have much tolerance for misinformation or overreactions from people drawing flawed conclusions from said misinformation. It's got nothing to do with my own ego (at least consciously).

 

As such, shame on *you*. I've done *craptons* for this community so I don't really feel the need to quash new players for any reason other than making sure they know more after the encounter than they did before.

Edited July 4, 2013 by Kitru

You wouldn't have such a massive reply if you didn't think you needed to defend yourself against a legitimate critique of your behavior.

 

Someone called you out on being a bully. No matter how right you are, that doesn't change that you're trying to demean someone to make yourself feel good.

Kurtdunn,

 

Quit playing the victim. You came in being all passive aggressive. Be civil and you will learn alot.

He admitted that he behaves in a rude manner, and even self-applies the title 'acerbic jacknape,' a quality that was abundantly clear in his reply. Now its true I should have worded my original post in a most positive and constructive manner, but I am justified in standing up for myself.

 

And there's nothing passive aggressive about this. I am being clear, direct and concise in what I disapprove of in his behavior, and I am in no way coy in condemning it.

Edited July 5, 2013 by KurtDunn

I am in no way coy in condemning it.

 

You said "Shame on you". How is that *not* being coy and self-righteous?

 

I admit to considering myself a jack-***, but it doesn't stop my behavior from being entirely justified when you start off the conversation as if you actually *know* what you're talking about when you're really utterly wrong. Hell, you explicitly said you did the math and, comically enough, *didn't even get the math right*.

 

Go back and reread my reply to you and *look* for anything that is explicitly attempting to make you look like an idiot rather than correcting your misinformation. Don't attempt to infer a tone that you don't even know applies. The only insult you'll be able to find is in telling you that you have no clue what you're talking about (once again, entirely true). Just because you felt bad because someone came along and told you outright rather than approaching the fact in a roundabout matter doesn't make that person a bully. Curt, mayhaps, but not a bully in any sense. To qualify as a bully, I'd have to do it to pretty much *everyone* who demonstrates a lack of knowledge. Since I only behave this way to people who puff up their chests and start proclaiming that they know something that's explicitly *wrong*, it's not bullying so much as taking the wind out of the sails of a blowhard. You provoked me by acting as if you *did* know what you were talking about. I simply stepped up and showed you how little you actually knew (and making sure you *knew* how little that was).

 

I don't hang around the internet (hell, I do that in real life too) and *get off* on telling people they're idiots and explaining exactly *why* they're idiots in that manner. I do it because, unless you correct people, they'll continue to believe that misinformation, and, unless you correct someone who explicitly believes that they *know* what they're talking about in the manner I used (i.e. conversational curbstomping), they'll continue to run around acting like that time and time again.

 

You're just angry that I made you feel like an idiot and, as such, feel the need to make *me* the villain by calling me a bully rather than simply admitting that you actually *deserved* it.

 

Also, concerning the length, look at my signature. I'm verbose in nature because I enjoy providing comprehensive answers and exploring multiple aspects of a topic. It has nothing to do with a sense of guilt. I wrote a response that long because I felt that was the length needed to correct you.

Edited July 9, 2013 by Kitru

Y'know what, I apologize.

 

I was overly defensive when you insinuated that I didn't know what I was talking about, telling me to do more work before posting on the forum felt like a very strong rebuff and I overreacted.

 

And I forgive you for your part in this tango. Because ultimately, I'd rather have peace of mind. Happy fourth of July.

Edited July 5, 2013 by KurtDunn

You said "Shame on you". How is that *not* being coy and self-righteous?

 

I admit to considering myself a jack-***, but it doesn't stop my behavior from being entirely justified when you start off the conversation as if you actually *know* what you're talking about when you're really utterly wrong. Hell, you explicitly said you did the math and, comically enough, *didn't even get the math right*.

 

Go back and reread my reply to you and *look* for anything that is explicitly attempting to make you look like an idiot rather than correcting your misinformation. Don't attempt to infer a tone that you don't even know applies. The only insult you'll be able to find is in telling you that you have no clue what you're talking about (once again, entirely true). Just because you felt bad because someone came along and told you outright rather than approaching the fact in a roundabout matter doesn't make that person a bully. Curt, mayhaps, but not a bully in any sense. To qualify as a bully, I'd have to do it to pretty much *everyone* who demonstrates a lack of knowledge. Since I only behave this way to people who puff up their chests and start proclaiming that they know something that's explicitly *wrong*, it's not bullying so much as taking the wind out of the sails of a blowhard. You provoked me by acting as if you *did* know what you were talking about. I simply stepped up and showed you how little you actually knew (and making sure you *knew* how little that was).

 

I don't hang around the internet (hell, I do that in real life too) and *get off* on telling people they're idiots and explaining exactly *why* they're idiots in that manner. I do it because, unless you correct people, they'll continue to believe that misinformation, and, unless you correct someone who explicitly believes that they *know* what they're talking about in the manner I used (i.e. conversational curbstomping), they'll continue to run around acting like that time and time again.

 

You're just angry that I made you feel like an idiot and, as such, feel the need to make *me* the villain by calling me a bully rather than simply admitting that you actually *deserved* it.

 

Also, concerning the length, look at my signature. I'm verbose in nature because I enjoy providing comprehensive answers and exploring multiple aspects of a topic. It has nothing to do with a sense of guilt. I wrote a response that wrong because I felt that was the length needed to correct you.

 

Kitru is there anyway you could tell me what word of the day calenders you use? Reading your posts always brings me to dictionary.com and made me realize I need to expand my vocabulary.

Kitru is there anyway you could tell me what word of the day calenders you use? Reading your posts always brings me to dictionary.com and made me realize I need to expand my vocabulary.

 

I just read. A lot. Years and years and years of reading purely for entertainment value. Plus, I get bored when I'm writing and have to use a non-technical term multiple times. In high school, I had one English teacher who couldn't believe I didn't write with a thesaurus open at my side until the first time we had an in-class essay and a second one who actually took points off of a paper because she had to bring out a dictionary when *grading* said paper to understand some of the word choices I used (none of which *I* thought were difficult to understand and, honestly, more accurately reflected my intent, interpretation, and description of the topic).

 

Basically, words are boring unless you find the fun ones.

KurtDunn,

Click on the poster's name on the left side of th post.

Then on the bottom right, click "Add xxxxxxx to your ignore list"

 

Not only will this make your forum expierence less confontational, with conservative and selective use it will eliminate the number of posts you have to wade through by half and the amount of text on your screen by 90%. And you won't miss a thing. Seriously.

You wouldn't have such a massive reply if you didn't think you needed to defend yourself against a legitimate critique of your behavior.

 

Someone called you out on being a bully. No matter how right you are, that doesn't change that you're trying to demean someone to make yourself feel good.

 

Out of the year or so I've seen Kitru posting on these forums, all he's ever done is be helpful and explain things. There is a difference between being condescending and stating facts, something that a certain ex-girlfriend of mine didn't understand and something that you don't seem to understand either. He provided legitimate advice and logic as to why your conclusions were wrong and you decided to get defensive and call him a bully. This is entirely illogical and particularly childish.

 

On to the actual topic of this thread, Kitru is right about the defense proc relic being amazing. It will easily bump up your defense chance by ~5% when it procs which is huge. Ideally, the second relic you'll want as a Guardian is the EWH static defense relic, but if you don't have it, then like Kitru said, the on use Shield/Absorb relic is pretty great. These are mathematically (check Dipstik's thread on these forums) the best relics for Guardian tanks.

 

On a final note, I very much enjoyed you flaunting your lexicon there Kitru.