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0/20/21 - Actually pretty awesome


RiChess

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At my current lvl, 46, 0/20/21 is very strong 1v1, and can really dish out the AoE/DoT pain. I average ~300k-350k per match with it, about the same as full lethality for me, but the survivability and single target burst gains are massive due to the slows and buffed nades/EP. Yes energy is harder to manage, but it's way more fun to play and really kicks some butt. Maras and juggies seem to hate me when I use this build (the slows from IP really make it hard for them to melee), the extra attention is the only real downside for me. And it's the only sniper build I've used where people start coming after me, then turn tail and run when they feel 3 DoTs + EP starting to hit like a truck. :D

 

This is what I project it to look like fully fleshed out at lvl 50: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#400ZMIMboRbZhrbkrrhz.1

 

 

Thoughts?

Updated with even better hybrid spec, see post #14.

Edited by RiChess
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At my current lvl, 46, 0/20/21 is very strong 1v1, and can really dish out the AoE/DoT pain. I average ~300k-350k per match with it, about the same as full lethality for me, but the survivability and single target burst gains are massive due to the slows and buffed nades/EP. Yes energy is harder to manage, but it's way more fun to play and really kicks some butt. Maras and juggies seem to hate me when I use this build (the slows from IP really make it hard for them to melee), the extra attention is the only real downside for me. And it's the only sniper build I've used where people start coming after me, then turn tail and run when they feel 3 DoTs + EP starting to hit like a truck. :D

 

This is what I project it to look like fully fleshed out at lvl 50: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#400ZMIMboRbZhrbkrrhz.1

 

 

Thoughts?

 

Not this build again.. I already commented on it here http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=465403

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Not this build again.. I already commented on it here http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=465403

 

Most of your objections revolve around the slightly reduced ability of cull, and of course the cleansing. I don't use cull too much and very easily match and sometimes exceed, more of keeping all 3 DoTs on CD (energy permitting) and locking down targets with the slows from IP and CG, while nailing them with EP and Cull as needed. Granted I've only been using this spec for a few hours now, but from what I've seen is only increased damage potential. My last match was a voidstar where my team denied the enemy from even making it through the first door, and the match ended when we broke through in about a minute after attack round started. I still managed 230k damage with no deaths.

 

As for cleansing, it's not like full lethality makes you immune to it, it only replaces it with a super weak version that lasts 9sec. Plus lingering toxins is not very damaging at all, it hit for 71 damage per tick for me. An EP/nade buffed build in my experience fares better than full lethality for the rare situation when someone gets smart and cleanses.

 

Oh and with the exception of AoE poisoning and the rare chance that someone lasts long with less than 30% health, devouring microbes is pretty much useless the way I play. Takedown is bound to mousewheel up and the fight is over in less than a second after they are less than 20-30%

 

Probably about an hour after I specced into this build I challenged one of my guildy DPS sorcs during a social BT run ( expecting to get murdered, just wanted to see how well I could do). I'm lvl 46, he lvl 50. I have 1150 HP, he has nearly 16k. I know he's good because I group pvped with him pre 50 often and he always did well. Long story short, I didn't beat him (though I did eat through 2 bubbles and 15k HP), but he was down to about 1k health when he popped a heal then bubbled and killed me. I would have absolutely destroyed him if I were equally geared.

 

No way could I do that in MM, and I doubt full lethality would have done so well.

Edited by RiChess
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Play some more full lethality. It is really that powerful. As i said,nobody survives the second cull. If you say you did not feel energy problems, its because you havent been pressured enough to use all your abilities. 60 energy for 3 dots is extremly expensive. Edited by NoTomorrow
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Play some more full lethality. It is really that powerful. As i said,nobody survives the second cull. If you say you did not feel energy problems, its because you havent been pressured enough to use all your abilities. 60 energy for 3 dots is extremly expensive.

 

Even in the lowbies I have people survive the 2nd cull all the time. And believe me, I've pissed off enough SW to always be engaged. That's part of the reason I went hybrid, this build does very well against the in your face types. I don't cast all the dots at once, I intersperse with low or 0 energy attacks.

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I hate to get on the hybrids are bad bandwagon, cause Sniper really does have some of the most legitimately interesting hybrid builds.

 

But I really do have to question your activity in a fight, if you can afford to keep dropping 60 energy worthy of 18-21 second dots, without even having Energy Tank.

 

~300k is impressive (Although that could be from AoEing lots of lowbies in Voidstar..?) but I can't see this build ever managing more than 250-300k a match, even if played to perfection, because the energy just isn't there over 15 minutes.

 

I do strongly believe though, that regardless of pure mathematics, there are certain specs and builds where players will do 5-10% better, based on comfort alone. So I also don't doubt you're doing better than you were with full lethality (you'd have no reason to lie).

Edited by clearsighted
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I have used the 0/20/21 build and it does have a lot of DPS potential but it suffers from a misconception about IP. IP does not count towards the damage done by Cull. I have tested this on a training dummy. If you don't believe me try it for yourself. Go to a training dummy and cast corrosive dart on it and then cull and look at how the yellow numbers look with 1 DoT on it. Then wait for corrosive dart to wear off and cast IP. Then use Cull on the dummy and you will see you get none of the damage from the IP during Cull.
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I have used the 0/20/21 build and it does have a lot of DPS potential but it suffers from a misconception about IP. IP does not count towards the damage done by Cull. I have tested this on a training dummy. If you don't believe me try it for yourself. Go to a training dummy and cast corrosive dart on it and then cull and look at how the yellow numbers look with 1 DoT on it. Then wait for corrosive dart to wear off and cast IP. Then use Cull on the dummy and you will see you get none of the damage from the IP during Cull.

 

This is where reading the tooltips comes in handy. ^.^ You are 100% correct, but this doesn't worry me because I can still use CG and PD to get 2 stacks of poison for cull if I want.

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Despite what everyone else thinks I love the engie/leth hybrid builds. I prefer this build to yours though.http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#400bZrI0bRoZGbbkrrhz.1

 

Something to remember is that you don't need to keep IP up all the time, Its really not all that important IMO. The reason you get into engineering is only for explosive engineering, cluster bombs and imperial methods. Everything else is either a secondary benefit (IP and engineers tool belt) or something you should get regardless of spec(gear head and energy tanks).

 

I love this build, I was never able to get used to a full lethality build. I always preformed well with it, but it wasn't fun or satisfying for me. I can acknowledge that full lethality is better DPS, but this build works for me and is extremly fun to play.

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Despite what everyone else thinks I love the engie/leth hybrid builds. I prefer this build to yours though.http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#400bZrI0bRoZGbbkrrhz.1

 

Something to remember is that you don't need to keep IP up all the time, Its really not all that important IMO. The reason you get into engineering is only for explosive engineering, cluster bombs and imperial methods. Everything else is either a secondary benefit (IP and engineers tool belt) or something you should get regardless of spec(gear head and energy tanks).

 

I love this build, I was never able to get used to a full lethality build. I always preformed well with it, but it wasn't fun or satisfying for me. I can acknowledge that full lethality is better DPS, but this build works for me and is extremly fun to play.

 

Here is a spec I came across last night, you sacrifice cull, but you get a free adrenaline probe every minute + the energy regen from crits. It looks like it would have enough energy output to sustain heavy duty DoTing/AoE. I'll test it once the the reset cost resets. Not paying 100k to respec. :D

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#400ZrI0bRRboZhrbkrMh.1

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Ok so I got a chance to test the build you'll see in my screen shot tonight, all I can say is... wow. I did 368k in my first match. This build really rocks maps like void star and huttball. Proof that hybrids can do as well as full point builds.

 

You'll see that I had no deaths, which you might say contributed to my DPS quite a bit, well yeah. This build has a good deal of survivability with the slows, reduced CD FB and Debilitate, and finally the ability to pop shield probes back to back while kiting. You will be *very* hard to kill if you play this build right.

 

Scoreboard: http://i49.tinypic.com/28c27tz.jpg

Build: http://i50.tinypic.com/v5fh9s.jpg

 

Update: My second Huttball match with the build, http://i49.tinypic.com/rtnepw.jpg

 

I feel like I could have cranked out even more DPS if I had used EP more. And this build will be even more potent when I hit 50 and can put 3 points into 12% extra DoT crit chance.

Edited by RiChess
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I'd say you test this build in the 50ies bracked and we'll see how well it performs then. Not trying to be rude, but I don't think the 10-49 PVP is an actual representation of what is viable on the long term and what not.

Trust me, I will. Only 4 lvls to go.

 

Also.

 

People seem to have this idea that good power builds used in the lowbies magically suck when you hit 50. I have two 50 toons, and every spec that worked in the lowbies worked in the 50s. I used a similar spec on my BH (pyrotech, all DoTs and proced RS) and kicked *** in the lowbies and carried it very well into the 50s. Yes the survivability will go down but my 3 dots will still be ticking after I die.

 

Stop hating on hybrids and play it for yourself. I think you'll like it. ;)

Edited by RiChess
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Trust me, I will. Only 4 lvls to go.

 

Also.

 

People seem to have this idea that good power builds used in the lowbies magically suck when you hit 50. I have two 50 toons, and every spec that worked in the lowbies worked in the 50s. I used a similar spec on my BH (pyrotech, all DoTs and proced RS) and kicked *** in the lowbies and carried it very well into the 50s. Yes the survivability will go down but my 3 dots will still be ticking after I die.

 

Stop hating on hybrids and play it for yourself. I think you'll like it. ;)

 

It's not that people hate hybrids...it's that if a hybrid outperforms a spec that goes all the way up, it's first on the chopping block for "adjustments." Just look at Sorcerer/Sage.

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