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Can we please block players that we do not want to go up against?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Starfighter
Can we please block players that we do not want to go up against?

Gadikat's Avatar


Gadikat
06.06.2019 , 04:19 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthCasus View Post
Imagine tacking on a game mode, hear me out, to a game that trains you the basics of gameplay naturally, but not doing the same with a decent tutorial, you following(?), and when you try to get into playing said mode with said lack of experience, you get smashed repeatedly despite following the 'basics' you were shown! When matchmaking can't be dealt with due to a smaller population, these are the sort of complaints you'll see, but I'm sure the GSF community here aren't new to this. This is further exacerbated when aces fly together.

Don't get me wrong, I don't blame them for being good at it and wanting to play together, but it's a clear issue and you'd have to be delusional to arrive at any other conclusion. Joining their groups to be carried every now and then, watching the youtube videos, spending hours of game time flying around aimlessly and reading up on the meta will not pull the dead weight that years of experience leaves on the table and this is made even worse with the lack of a flow of requisition to play around with builds and upgrades that OBJECTIVELY provide better results. Some nights, I even wish it were possible to make certain people disappear from the queues for a little while but I'm realistic about it.

And no, flying against people who demolish you before you understand what happened will not make you better.
After a month of flying with people that (still can) demolish me and listening to their tips, I was topping boards. Your point doesn't address even half of what I brought up. People don't rely on the in-game for their rotation, they look up guides. Same with all aspects of operations.
If you think the point of joining good players is just to be carried then you're missing the point. The people who claim it's bored to be carried are right, it is, but that is an environment where one can learn to pull their weight. When one is DOING the carrying it's definitely less boring.
There's this hopeless attitude that just learning can't beat years of experience. Maybe not a full seasoned 4-man, yet, but 1v1 or 2v2 is a very achievable reality with only maybe a month's practise and short education on the meta.
This became apparent to me when flying in a 2-man with another player who started receiving pro instruction around the same time as I. There was a well-known ace flying solo on the other side. Map was Denon Dom. Just having the coordination and knowing the meta, we were able to keep ahead of the enemy ace in caps, and won the races to recap on trades. Scrubs with a bit of practice and knowledge could shut down an ace, without an ace directing them on their side.
In short while our group was wrecking the queue, but we figured if it didn't take us that long to become moderately proficient (compared to vet aces), then maybe with a small push on the community the general skill level of our server would rise. So far it has. I'm seeing randoms bringing out T3 strikes and emp fields to shutdown piledrivers. More scouts in dom matches. It's much harder to crack 30 kills in a TDM, and is happening far less often. Group v. group with solo backfills (half to 66% of the team) is more common.
^I think there is a very good case that this is more beneficial to solo q'rs as well^
It gives the attentive solo q'r a solid team foundation to rely when selecting their play. It also means the solo q'r is less likely to be pressured to carry. While very skilled solo q'rs willed probably have lower stats with this type of composition, green solo'rs will enjoy more freedom to explore their ability in GSF.
^^This reason also seems to be why it's primarily skilled solo q'rs complaining "on behalf" of less skilled players about groups. ^^

DarthCasus's Avatar


DarthCasus
06.07.2019 , 12:27 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Gadikat View Post
-snip-
None of that disproved what I said. Being demolished isn't fun. Being demolished without having a chance to react is not fun. Yes, the game does teach you basics and you can read the basics in the description of abilities, actives and passives. You do NOT always need guides to learn the base game but it helps and is recommended. Joining 'good' players accomplishes nothing for the newb as they still are in the tub struggling to stay afloat while the 'good' players do all the work. Some are helpful with answering questions but game sense pales in comparison to actual mechanical skill and upgrades. Or does being in group with them suddenly make me play better or earn req faster for upgrades?

A month of however long of practice is NOT enough to fly against the people I fly against. It shouldn't even take that long to be competitive. Your anecdote is just that while the very real situation of GSF is that it discouraged most people from ever returning and that's for a reason. Randoms on your team could easily be the alts of experienced flyers as well and you know that. It's still a well designed minigame but has terrible incentives, a barebones tutorial and understandably small community leftover from a larger one that withered away because the bad outweighed the good.

No one wants to be herded into the mode for a reward that benefits them outside of it to be slaughtered for a good while in the hopes of getting good eventually. It's common sense. I sympathize with OP though it's not reasonable. You know if GSF was removed from conquest and Ossus weekly, it would go the way of Uprisings like it once did across multiple servers.
Quote: Originally Posted by DragonTora View Post
ur being the "leet" one by letting the internet raise ur children and I would flash the bird to u if i could noob.
Quote: Originally Posted by BarrinMarshal
I know your part of the "Forum Apologist Five" group but stop

Gadikat's Avatar


Gadikat
06.07.2019 , 05:04 AM | #23
>"None of that disproved what I said."
>"Joining 'good' players does nothing for the newbs."
Are you illiterate? Because your response sounds like you struggle with basic reading comprehension. Go back, try again. Words can be tricky.

No, you don't get magically better. It's just like with any instruction. Be humble, be patient, and actually DO what you're told. If your response to pro advice "well thanks, I think I'm going to keep doing it this way though, that's 'my style,'" or whatever, then you won't improve at all. The point is that what you're currently doing isn't getting you W's and you need to change.

No one is herded in to GSF anymore than any other game mode. I don't see people complaining about being "herded into ops" when they don't have raid groups. Or "herded into" anything. Tired of this complaint from entitled ground players. I've been rudely chewed out for not knowing whatever strats for an op boss. Been hard and soft-kicked from raid groups and no one would teach me. That doesn't happen to me in GSF. Maybe if we mercilessly tore the ground players apart for their stupidity in the sky they'd shut up with this stupid complaint. I have no interest in helping some whiner who is only in q to get their crystal, and has no interest in actually playing. Get out of q. The game is for the people who play it. I want people to play, but I don't want people doing this^. And if that's you, you get no sympathy from me. Get rekt.

As far as 'we could've had pro alts on our side,' we didn't but for the sake of argument let's say we did. The named pro on the other side was still the superior individual pilot, and it was still winning the races to the says that won the game.
Additionally, being in the GSF and GSF Groupfinder discords will let you know the status of a whole bunch of aces at once.

As far as a month being not enough, you're wrong. Just so very wrong and talking completely out of your bottom. I've been present for, and helped train myself even, other pilots after me. While everyone is a little different; on average after about a month of instruction and practise a new pilot starts getting accused of hacking :P just popping in once to chat or q with an ace and then not talking to them again for like two weeks isn't going to cut it tho. That schedule involves logging like 3 times a week.

No one likes a whiner who refuses to learn. Or read.

Like simple stuff: you say newbs are all confused about dying so quickly. Literally a two minute conversation with a pro will clear up exactly how they're dying to what ship. THAT is something grouping with a pro will make you better at, immediately. One new guy asked about one-hit kills. Learned it actually was a legit thing, then better understood Los and defensive flying. He took that info back to his guild, now all of them know how to counter piledriving and avoid slugs with DO. It's like you're struggling with the basic concept of education, this is how it works buddy.

Not to mention you can see what their ship builds are (the aces), what they're flying to get 30+ kills. They'll tell you what you should be doing with what ship and when. Clarity and certainty do wonders for new pilots.

No one likes a game mode that is so easy you can compete from the get-go and doesn't reward knowledge nor skill. It's like you've never played a pvp game before in your life.
Maybe you haven't! In that case, it's pretty standard fare to die a bunch when you start out before getting good: A la CoD, a la Halo, a la TF2, a la counterstrike, a la Battlefront etc.

If you're expecting to waltz into a new pvp game with no instruction and have competitive scores with vet players, in any game, you're delusional.
And just like in any game, learning how it works from people who are better makes you better, if you can humble yourself enough to learn.

Drakkolich's Avatar


Drakkolich
06.07.2019 , 01:19 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthCasus View Post
Joining 'good' players accomplishes nothing for the newb as they still are in the tub struggling to stay afloat while the 'good' players do all the work. Some are helpful with answering questions but game sense pales in comparison to actual mechanical skill and upgrades. Or does being in group with them suddenly make me play better or earn req faster for upgrades?
When players join up with good players with the intention of learning how to become better they learn so much so fast. I'm constantly answering their questions, while simultaneously providing feedback to their flying. For example I might see them die while being very overextended and can provide immediate feedback on that, or maybe they're using the wrong ship for a certain situation. Simply joining good players in a group and playing games to get carried, I absolutely agree with you helps very little, it's the getting in voice chat having access to all your questions answered in real time and discussing builds and strategies that helps tremendously.

As far as mechanical skill and upgrades these also improve with a mentor speaking directly to you while flying. A big example to this is just 2 nights ago, I was flying with someone that asked very simply how on earth do you guys track people so well, I have a hard time keeping my reticule lined up and I went through a few things that could be hampering is ability to stay on target, after a few minutes we found out he didn't know that Pitching compared to Yawing makes you turn a lot faster and because he was turning so much slower then his enemies you just couldn't aim properly.

To answer if being grouped with good players make you earn req faster for upgrades, I have to blatantly yell OFCOURSE IT DOES. If you're winning more games you're earning more req, on top of that good players know how req is distributed and can explain to you what things you should be doing if your goal is to earn as much as possible. On top of the fact they can help you spend it more efficiently to gain the most power for your ship in the shortest time.


Quote: Originally Posted by DarthCasus View Post
A month of however long of practice is NOT enough to fly against the people I fly against. It shouldn't even take that long to be competitive. Your anecdote is just that while the very real situation of GSF is that it discouraged most people from ever returning and that's for a reason.
First up you're right you can't bridge the gap of 5 years of practice in a month, you can however improve a ridiculous amount. (Proud of you Gadikat, you've come so far in the last month)

The fact that you think it shouldn't take that long to be competitive is kind of a big red flag to me here. Do you think you should be able to earn the experience of someone that has played 1000's of matches in a month or do you mean requisition wise? Because it is very easy now to master literally every single ship in a month.

GSF is hard, and very different from the regular game, and I completely agree with the fact that the tutorial has needed a revamp for a very long time. However Bioware did give us an amazing teaching tool last year that has helped so much! The ability to create custom games with just a few friends let's you finally explore the GSF space without the pressure of being in an actual pvp game. This lets you test all sorts of things, learn the maps and just practice flying with friends. It's also an AMAZING teaching tool, I can't tell you how many players have learned so much in so little time using it.


I'm sorry I can't touch on the ground game stuff, because well I don't play it, I only play Swtor for GSF because I love it.

Anyways just wanted to hop in here and maybe clear up some confusion in the discussion, I hope that helps.
DrakolichDrakolích
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Gadikat's Avatar


Gadikat
06.07.2019 , 02:54 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Drakkolich View Post
First up you're right you can't bridge the gap of 5 years of practice in a month, you can however improve a ridiculous amount. (Proud of you Gadikat, you've come so far in the last month)
My point wasn't that you can make up the difference. I still can't touch any single player on your squad (but ty). My point was that it's enough to become proficient enough that you can have a shot at carrying a match with regs, which is more than enough to prevent a match from becoming a blowout.
It also gives a pilot some knowledge when they see an ace on the other side. While they might be more sklled, at least a pilot can get the knowledge for a sensible counter to that ace's ship/strat. It's something, as opposed to getting piledriven, or slice/emp-torp'd, or ion-slug'd. Just having an idea of what to do against those ships/pilots can help.

DarthCasus's Avatar


DarthCasus
06.08.2019 , 11:29 PM | #26
[QUOTE=Gadikat;9735751]-snip-/QUOTE]

Your rant was cute but amounted to a whole lot of smug nothing. Just letting ya know. You don't see anyone complaining.. in a thread where there are people complaining. Nevermidn the official forums being dead until BW screw up and people complain that the weeklies involve GSF again. Last word here, I'm not adding anything myself but it is what it is.

And I appreciate you being thoughtful in your responses Drakkolich, it did help ease the issues with trying to learn it but overall, I just deem it not for me. And there's still a few a**hats on this section of the forums, clearly.
Quote: Originally Posted by DragonTora View Post
ur being the "leet" one by letting the internet raise ur children and I would flash the bird to u if i could noob.
Quote: Originally Posted by BarrinMarshal
I know your part of the "Forum Apologist Five" group but stop

Gadikat's Avatar


Gadikat
06.10.2019 , 06:15 AM | #27
[QUOTE=DarthCasus;9736413]
Quote: Originally Posted by Gadikat View Post
-snip-/QUOTE]

Last word here, I'm not adding anything myself but it is what it is!

.....And there's still a few a**hats on this section of the forums, clearly.
Hahaha XD man you don't even read posts before attempting to write back hahahaha. Keep bringing the salt! You are keeping these forums nicely seasoned.
Last word here! Fergilicious!