This has become a global issue. We all know EA is greedy. Buying up lowbie development houses and ruining their beloved games and sucking the life out of the community.

Sound familiar??

Now with battlefront's crates countries have considered the Random Number Generated crates gambling. Just yesterday Hawaii was added to the ever growing list.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/22/state-legislators-call-eas-game-a-star-wars-themed-online-casino-preying-on-kids-vow-action.html

https://www.engadget.com/2017/11/22/belgium-moves-to-ban-star-wars-battlefront-2-style-loot-boxes/

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-11-22-star-wars-battlefront-2-loot-crates-belgian-gaming-commission-hawaii-chris-lee

https://news.google.com/news/story?ncl=dsBXRSlqC39zkgM55HWLL0gEzafKM&q=EA+gambling&lr=English&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjy2sLlwNLXAhUH1mMKHbuKBqMQqgIIKzAA&dogfood=no

Battlefront isn't the only game being investigated on their RNG systems, Overwatch is on the list as well.

Sure SWTOR is mostly cosmetic, but there are buyable boosts and insta level 60 and 65 tokens with a just announced insta 70 token coming soon.

People complain about high GTN prices when other dump money into cartel coins to get rare items to sell at high credit prices. People complain about credit farmers, bots, and spam. When there is a direct connection to high GTN prices and 3rd party credit sale websites.

People will spend their money on cartel coins for these RNG crates, effectively gambling yo get a rare item to use or sell to afford another item. People set up bots to gain CXP for RNG crates in a horrible end game gearing system.

Battlefront's crates are to skip content and get end game bonuses quicker. SWTOR's RNG crates are just as much of a gambling issue.

So when do we see a change?

A happy gamer is a good gamer willing to pay extra for cosmetic items via micro transactions. Piss off these customers, and stocks tumble when they stop buying, subscribing, and playing.

This is only the beginning. We need to take a stand now and speak with out bank accounts. Boycott all cartel purchases, unsub. If you want change, you'll have to do it where it hurts the most. The bottom line.

We can only hope...the beauty is, EA did this entirely to themselves by getting TOO greedy. It's beautiful

Actually it was the customers fault to follow through with it not EA

We can only hope...the beauty is, EA did this entirely to themselves by getting TOO greedy. It's beautiful

I completely agree! Now EA can be the example of what not to do. But hopefully it'll go further than just that.

We can only hope...the beauty is, EA did this entirely to themselves by getting TOO greedy. It's beautiful

As the saying goes, "you can shear a wookie many times, but skin him only once".

This has become a global issue. We all know EA is greedy. Buying up lowbie development houses and ruining their beloved games and sucking the life out of the community.

 

Sound familiar??

 

Now with battlefront's crates countries have considered the Random Number Generated crates gambling. Just yesterday Hawaii was added to the ever growing list.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/22/state-legislators-call-eas-game-a-star-wars-themed-online-casino-preying-on-kids-vow-action.html

 

https://www.engadget.com/2017/11/22/belgium-moves-to-ban-star-wars-battlefront-2-style-loot-boxes/

 

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-11-22-star-wars-battlefront-2-loot-crates-belgian-gaming-commission-hawaii-chris-lee

 

https://news.google.com/news/story?ncl=dsBXRSlqC39zkgM55HWLL0gEzafKM&q=EA+gambling&lr=English&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjy2sLlwNLXAhUH1mMKHbuKBqMQqgIIKzAA&dogfood=no

 

 

Battlefront isn't the only game being investigated on their RNG systems, Overwatch is on the list as well.

 

Sure SWTOR is mostly cosmetic, but there are buyable boosts and insta level 60 and 65 tokens with a just announced insta 70 token coming soon.

 

People complain about high GTN prices when other dump money into cartel coins to get rare items to sell at high credit prices. People complain about credit farmers, bots, and spam. When there is a direct connection to high GTN prices and 3rd party credit sale websites.

 

People will spend their money on cartel coins for these RNG crates, effectively gambling yo get a rare item to use or sell to afford another item. People set up bots to gain CXP for RNG crates in a horrible end game gearing system.

 

Battlefront's crates are to skip content and get end game bonuses quicker. SWTOR's RNG crates are just as much of a gambling issue.

 

So when do we see a change?

 

A happy gamer is a good gamer willing to pay extra for cosmetic items via micro transactions. Piss off these customers, and stocks tumble when they stop buying, subscribing, and playing.

 

This is only the beginning. We need to take a stand now and speak with out bank accounts. Boycott all cartel purchases, unsub. If you want change, you'll have to do it where it hurts the most. The bottom line.

Yeah, go ahead and boycott the game! Watch it fall off the wagon when EA shuts it down instantly. Like your boycott will ever have the intended effect you are looking for!

You want the change you are looking for? Consider the game being canned.

You want it to hurt the most? By all means and make sure every customer feels it including Bioware.

No i don't agree with the crates and neither do i agree with the level 70 token, but there is nothing i can do about it if Bioware has decided not to engage in their community any further.

Not really sure where the consternation from about the max level character token. You're buying a service.. There is no gambling. You pay x and you get y. No different than going to a store and purchasing a new set of shoes.

Blizzard has been offering this same service for the last two expansions with the caveat that you can get a true max level (much like now) until near the end of the expansion. They even give you a boost into the most current content with the purchase of the expansion.

As far as the crates go.. Don't hold your breath as far as the US goes. There are all kinds of interstate laws and unless Hawaii can get 50 other states to follow I don't see anything significant happening. The current political climate favors big business. Heck look at what is going to be happening with Net Neutrality.. 22 Million people have spoken against it, but Pai is going to remove it anyway in the name of big business.

What some of you are failing to understand is that you cannot actually purchase any RNG items for actual real life currency in SWTOR. It can be, and is, different for some games... where you direct purchase an item from a microtransaction store for actual real life currency. SWTOR is NOT one of these. Some other games.... "may be" and "may" have to make some tweaks to their transaction business models to avoid any legal violations of any new legal ordinances.

A) All items sourced through the CM can only be purchased using a token currency (CCs) which can and are used for a variety of things that players want to do in game. Like appearance changes, or additional character slots, etc. etc. So it is NOT a given that CCs are only used for "alleged" "gambling".

B) Further, a lot of the actual CCs in float in game (~ 30% +/-) are not actually purchased, but rather granted as incentives for subscribers, incentives for referrals, and even gifted awards from the studio (either to all players or to players that meet certain conditions.

Point being....... the producers of SWTOR have legally decoupled real life currency from in game token currency on multiple levels. [some may in turn claim that they are simply gaming current law..... but that is something game players are actually not qualified to assess, much less act upon]. Plus, CCs cannot be returned or traded for real life currency either, nor can they be gambled in game for a chance to get more CCs. CCs in SWTOR have no actual cash redemption value whatsoever. For this current passion about cheering governments for investigating and setting limits on what and how micro-tranactions are legally applicable... you are going to come out the other side of events very disappointed.

As for RNG...... sorry ... but there is nothing inherently illegal about RNG in games.... where the only winnable outcome is a virtual item which you never actually as a player own (it is viritual IP retained by the studio that they let you use for as long as you play the game and qualify to do so). There may or may not be some changes that studios will be forced to make to comply with any changes in laws in the future..... but that does not mean micro-transactions are going to go bye bye.... much less any random nature to gaining items in game.

So much conflation and wishful thinking going on about this recently in the forum. It's a lot of wasted energy and emotions.... much like just about every forum topic. Have fun with that.. and don't cry later when the resulting outcome is not what you actually wanted or railed against.

What some of you are failing to understand is that you cannot actually purchase any RNG items for actual real life currency in SWTOR. It can be, and is, different for some games... where you direct purchase an item from a microtransaction store for actual real life currency. SWTOR is NOT one of these. Some other games.... "may be" and "may" have to make some tweaks to their transaction business models to avoid any legal violations of any new legal ordinances.

 

A) All items sourced through the CM can only be purchased using a token currency (CCs) which can and are used for a variety of things that players want to do in game. Like appearance changes, or additional character slots, etc. etc. So it is NOT a given that CCs are only used for "alleged" "gambling".

 

B) Further, a lot of the actual CCs in float in game (~ 30% +/-) are not actually purchased, but rather granted as incentives for subscribers, incentives for referrals, and even gifted awards from the studio (either to all players or to players that meet certain conditions.

 

Point being....... the producers of SWTOR have legally decoupled real life currency from in game token currency on multiple levels. [some may in turn claim that they are simply gaming current law..... but that is something game players are actually not qualified to assess, much less act upon]. Plus, CCs cannot be returned or traded for real life currency either, nor can they be gambled in game for a chance to get more CCs. CCs in SWTOR have no actual cash redemption value whatsoever. For this current passion about cheering governments for investigating and setting limits on what and how micro-tranactions are legally applicable... you are going to come out the other side of events very disappointed.

 

As for RNG...... sorry ... but there is nothing inherently illegal about RNG in games.... where the only winnable outcome is a virtual item which you never actually as a player own (it is viritual IP retained by the studio that they let you use for as long as you play the game and qualify to do so). There may or may not be some changes that studios will be forced to make to comply with any changes in laws in the future..... but that does not mean micro-transactions are going to go bye bye.... much less any random nature to gaining items in game.

 

So much conflation and wishful thinking going on about this recently in the forum. It's a lot of wasted energy and emotions.... much like just about every forum topic. Have fun with that.. and don't cry later when the resulting outcome is not what you actually wanted or railed against.

What a joke.

What a joke.

The reality is that legislation is way behind on the technological developments of today. The Dutch senate has a law to pass to control online gambling and until it passes there is no official law for this sort of thing anyway. However, if the Dutch gambling authority regards loot crates like the ones they wanted to put in BF2 unfavourably they could be subject to a temporary ban till the law comes into effect. But then it needs to be proven that you can buy RNG crates for money and make money with that as well.

Considering credit sellers and auction sites where such RNG items are being sold today even for real money, the question will be how that is viewed.

In Belgium the gambling authority investigated loot crates and have concluded they are gambling and should not exist in games and they want to bring this to the EU for legislation.

A French Minister has written an open letter now to the French gambling authority to request an investigation into this as well.

It's hard to say where this all leads but the EU is in the process of dealing with these topics and making legislation for it and this outrage could very well colour this legislation. Personally I hope it does, but time will have to tell.

Overwatch doesn't even allow trading between players if I read it right but China also is on top of this topic.

In the US all it takes is some organized parent groups to get wind of this I suppose.

What some of you are failing to understand is that you cannot actually purchase any RNG items for actual real life currency in SWTOR. It can be, and is, different for some games... where you direct purchase an item from a microtransaction store for actual real life currency. SWTOR is NOT one of these. Some other games.... "may be" and "may" have to make some tweaks to their transaction business models to avoid any legal violations of any new legal ordinances.

 

A) All items sourced through the CM can only be purchased using a token currency (CCs) which can and are used for a variety of things that players want to do in game. Like appearance changes, or additional character slots, etc. etc. So it is NOT a given that CCs are only used for "alleged" "gambling".

 

B) Further, a lot of the actual CCs in float in game (~ 30% +/-) are not actually purchased, but rather granted as incentives for subscribers, incentives for referrals, and even gifted awards from the studio (either to all players or to players that meet certain conditions.

 

Point being....... the producers of SWTOR have legally decoupled real life currency from in game token currency on multiple levels. [some may in turn claim that they are simply gaming current law..... but that is something game players are actually not qualified to assess, much less act upon]. Plus, CCs cannot be returned or traded for real life currency either, nor can they be gambled in game for a chance to get more CCs. CCs in SWTOR have no actual cash redemption value whatsoever. For this current passion about cheering governments for investigating and setting limits on what and how micro-tranactions are legally applicable... you are going to come out the other side of events very disappointed.

 

As for RNG...... sorry ... but there is nothing inherently illegal about RNG in games.... where the only winnable outcome is a virtual item which you never actually as a player own (it is viritual IP retained by the studio that they let you use for as long as you play the game and qualify to do so). There may or may not be some changes that studios will be forced to make to comply with any changes in laws in the future..... but that does not mean micro-transactions are going to go bye bye.... much less any random nature to gaining items in game.

 

So much conflation and wishful thinking going on about this recently in the forum. It's a lot of wasted energy and emotions.... much like just about every forum topic. Have fun with that.. and don't cry later when the resulting outcome is not what you actually wanted or railed against.

Cognitive bias

What some of you are failing to understand is that you cannot actually purchase any RNG items for actual real life currency in SWTOR. It can be, and is, different for some games... where you direct purchase an item from a microtransaction store for actual real life currency. SWTOR is NOT one of these. Some other games.... "may be" and "may" have to make some tweaks to their transaction business models to avoid any legal violations of any new legal ordinances.

 

A) All items sourced through the CM can only be purchased using a token currency (CCs) which can and are used for a variety of things that players want to do in game. Like appearance changes, or additional character slots, etc. etc. So it is NOT a given that CCs are only used for "alleged" "gambling".

 

B) Further, a lot of the actual CCs in float in game (~ 30% +/-) are not actually purchased, but rather granted as incentives for subscribers, incentives for referrals, and even gifted awards from the studio (either to all players or to players that meet certain conditions.

 

Point being....... the producers of SWTOR have legally decoupled real life currency from in game token currency on multiple levels. [some may in turn claim that they are simply gaming current law..... but that is something game players are actually not qualified to assess, much less act upon]. Plus, CCs cannot be returned or traded for real life currency either, nor can they be gambled in game for a chance to get more CCs. CCs in SWTOR have no actual cash redemption value whatsoever. For this current passion about cheering governments for investigating and setting limits on what and how micro-tranactions are legally applicable... you are going to come out the other side of events very disappointed.

 

As for RNG...... sorry ... but there is nothing inherently illegal about RNG in games.... where the only winnable outcome is a virtual item which you never actually as a player own (it is viritual IP retained by the studio that they let you use for as long as you play the game and qualify to do so). There may or may not be some changes that studios will be forced to make to comply with any changes in laws in the future..... but that does not mean micro-transactions are going to go bye bye.... much less any random nature to gaining items in game.

 

So much conflation and wishful thinking going on about this recently in the forum. It's a lot of wasted energy and emotions.... much like just about every forum topic. Have fun with that.. and don't cry later when the resulting outcome is not what you actually wanted or railed against.

TL;DR you players are wrong, Bioware is right, RNG rocks and so do random loot boxes.

There are also questions about the law and/ or morality of letting people buy blind crates in the hope of reward. - (IANAL ) There are places in the world and probably states in the US where minors gambling is not legal. - but things like that are certainly frowned upon in the EU. Some blind boxes have to give specific percentages of chance of the outcome here in the UK.

I don't object to people spending money for specific items in a cash shop - so long as its cosmetic and not a path to an in-game advantage that others are denied for want of cash. - And those things should really be trade-able for in game currency.

But yeah. They tried it and got burned. - Hopefully it'll put a few nails in the RNG loot/gear coffin.

I completely agree! Now EA can be the example of what not to do. But hopefully it'll go further than just that.

One can only hope that others will now start to take notice and I'm not just talking other gaming businesses. I've come to decide that I have no problem with some regulations on the types of things EA has tried to pull off.

SNIP.... when the resulting outcome is not what you actually wanted or railed against.

Well if thats the case it would be par for the course with bioware and how they have handled things in the past.

the 70 tokens as well as the current 60/65 outlander tokens are time savers.

battlefronts rng crates gamble that you will get some time saving bonuses.

thats the common relationship im making when talking about the tokens

i dont mind rng crates when it is cosmetic gear. to customize the look of your characters. thats cool.

but to shorten end game time or insta levels and outright better gear from the start (P2W) im not a fan of. whales will excell and drive away long term players.

we all know what EA has done to smaller design studios. bioware is no different. they have followed everything the EA teet has said. even things they know would be against the original goals of SWTOR and what the community wants overall. theres plenty of threads on the swtor forums

I forgot to mention Disney has shown it's discontent for what EA has done with Battlefront's gambler's crates

Disney has threatened to pull EA's Star Wars exclusivity away due to the bad press, Reddit posts and country/state gambling investigations.

That alone has huge implications across many other companies and their RNG system in games and mobile games.

.

Computer based Random Number Generators are not random at all. They are just complicated algorithms. Nothing is random in a computer. Percentages can be tuned.

Star Wars-themed online casino using predatory practices towards underage community to spend money.

We can only hope...the beauty is, EA did this entirely to themselves by getting TOO greedy. It's beautiful

Yes and looking forward to a refund check for all the money spent.

This has become a global issue. We all know EA is greedy. Buying up lowbie development houses and ruining their beloved games and sucking the life out of the community.

 

Sound familiar??

 

Now with battlefront's crates countries have considered the Random Number Generated crates gambling. Just yesterday Hawaii was added to the ever growing list.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/22/state-legislators-call-eas-game-a-star-wars-themed-online-casino-preying-on-kids-vow-action.html

 

https://www.engadget.com/2017/11/22/belgium-moves-to-ban-star-wars-battlefront-2-style-loot-boxes/

 

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-11-22-star-wars-battlefront-2-loot-crates-belgian-gaming-commission-hawaii-chris-lee

 

https://news.google.com/news/story?ncl=dsBXRSlqC39zkgM55HWLL0gEzafKM&q=EA+gambling&lr=English&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjy2sLlwNLXAhUH1mMKHbuKBqMQqgIIKzAA&dogfood=no

 

 

Battlefront isn't the only game being investigated on their RNG systems, Overwatch is on the list as well.

 

Sure SWTOR is mostly cosmetic, but there are buyable boosts and insta level 60 and 65 tokens with a just announced insta 70 token coming soon.

 

People complain about high GTN prices when other dump money into cartel coins to get rare items to sell at high credit prices. People complain about credit farmers, bots, and spam. When there is a direct connection to high GTN prices and 3rd party credit sale websites.

 

People will spend their money on cartel coins for these RNG crates, effectively gambling yo get a rare item to use or sell to afford another item. People set up bots to gain CXP for RNG crates in a horrible end game gearing system.

 

Battlefront's crates are to skip content and get end game bonuses quicker. SWTOR's RNG crates are just as much of a gambling issue.

 

So when do we see a change?

 

A happy gamer is a good gamer willing to pay extra for cosmetic items via micro transactions. Piss off these customers, and stocks tumble when they stop buying, subscribing, and playing.

 

This is only the beginning. We need to take a stand now and speak with out bank accounts. Boycott all cartel purchases, unsub. If you want change, you'll have to do it where it hurts the most. The bottom line.

I've seen a concerted effort to bring items as direct sales. Lately. Might have to do with the law and the amount of complaints. I believe that is all that is necessary to resolve these issues. I take issue with the loot RNG in context of not having a direct purchase option. If you sell the stuff and want to offer an RNG as a complimentary option system I think that is fair. I think the recent adjustment to the cartel market over the last few months to add more direct purchase resolved this issue for me as a gamer and consumer in this game.

I've seen a concerted effort to bring items as direct sales. Lately. Might have to do with the law and the amount of complaints. I believe that is all that is necessary to resolve these issues. I take issue with the loot RNG in context of not having a direct purchase option. If you sell the stuff and want to offer an RNG as a complimentary option system I think that is fair. I think the recent adjustment to the cartel market over the last few months to add more direct purchase resolved this issue for me as a gamer and consumer in this game.

Well, it all depends. Right now, even if I approve the initiative of more direct sales (should have been in this game since the begining), there will still be some other questions or problem to solve, like if it's "normal" to spend 5k cartel coins (40euro) for just a lightsaber, who cost as much as the whole game. But that's not the same subject at all

Belgium, Australia, France, The Netherlands and USA have started investigating the loot boxes as gambling.

It's interesting to watch this play out

Battlefront 2 has been voted worst game on metacritic with a 0.9 rating