Simple, it would cost too much, and EA barely supports this game.

New Class >> New story >> More Voice acting >> More coding >> Class has to have a mirror equivalent >> Mirror Class needs a story >> Classes need 2 adv classes >> Adv classes need 3 disciplines.

I reject the notion that game developers cant figure out which of the existing classes cut scenes would work for a hypothetical new class with fps, ops, planetaries, etc.

 

I mean with no thought whatsoever Id say smuggler responses for a non force user and jedi knight for a force user but I bet if it was my job to figure this out I could comb through each and every sequence to pick and choose and shoehorn in a new class right in there with very little new voice acting.

 

I appreciate how its easier to rail on about what cant be done and why but we really all benefit and look much smarter when we try to imagine the limits of what can.

It's not just about what the *character* says (and, following your suggestion literally as written, do you really want the new class to be obliged to sound like a Jedi even if it's a Sith?), but also about what *NPCs* say. If a new Impside Force User class *isn't* a Sith, should it be greeted universally as "My Lord"? (In some places, the Sith Warrior and Sith Inquisitor greetings are *both* incorrect - a new ImpFU, Sith or not, is neither "Dark Lord" nor "Lord Wrath".)

So no, borrowing lines from another class isn't the right solution. Almost all the shortcuts would get the new class marked out immediately as "lame" to a lesser or greater extent. People will expect a new set of lines spoken in a new set of voices, with NPCs responding correctly, and a new story(1). That is *expensive*.

And regarding the last part: *I* didn't say it *can't* be done, but that if it is done, it will be hugely expensive compared to adding a class to other MMORPGs. If the projections by their business analysts say that the estimated present and future costs(2) will exceed the estimated possible financial benefits, it won't happen. While I doubt they have access to any specific figures on what other MMORPGs gained in revenue when they added new classes, you can usually infer a reasonable estimate from the published results during times when such releases have happened.

Games with class-independent stories, and especially games (er, most of them) with no references to class in their stories, are significantly cheaper to add classes.

Final point: adding a new playable species is much cheaper in SWTOR than adding a new class. New species (and above all the ones they've chosen to add) have no impact on game mechanics, armour sets, spoken dialogue (except for a sprinkling of lines that they've so far ignored) and so on. They don't change the stories to any measurable extent. So the cost is a bit of UI, some artwork, customisation options, and a few toggles in Togruta and Nautolans to force-hide helmets. That's it.

(1) It's SWTOR. Who's going to be pleased by a new class pair that doesn't have stories on the same scale as the existing four class pairs?

(2) Present costs: what it will cost to implement the new class, including story writers, game-mechanics analysis and implementation, voice actors, mechanics testing, PvP balance testing, new UI, new lore entries, a new class ship, changes to the Fleet and other spaceports and orbital stations to accommodate the new ship (where exactly *would* you put the new class's hangar?), and so on and so on.

Future costs: all future story development would have its cost increased by the need to record more player lines, more class-specific NPC greetings and suchlike, blah blah blah.

I reject the notion that game developers cant figure out which of the existing classes cut scenes would work for a hypothetical new class with fps, ops, planetaries, etc.

 

I mean with no thought whatsoever Id say smuggler responses for a non force user and jedi knight for a force user but I bet if it was my job to figure this out I could comb through each and every sequence to pick and choose and shoehorn in a new class right in there with very little new voice acting.

That's not how that works, though. You can't pick and choose with the voice acting because their voice has to be consistent throughout the game. So if you pick the Jedi Knight as the "voice" for this hypothetical class, the Jedi Knight's dialogue will have to be used for the entire game for that class. If they used different voices, it'd be incredibly jarring and the class would end up having different voices from scene to scene.

Plus, if they just used the Jedi Knight's dialogue for the entire game, they're not really a new class at that point, are they? The dialogue will make clear at some point they're a Jedi, since you took the dialogue from the Jedi Knight, so why even make them a new class? Just make them a third advanced class of the Jedi Knight at that point and save yourself the headache.

That's the biggest issue with what you're suggesting, I think they'd get pretty heavily criticized for reusing the voice acting and dialogue and it wouldn't exactly look imaginative either unless the class gameplay was just really inspired. An advanced class is a fine compromise and a much smaller logistical headache, far more realistic in my eyes.

I appreciate how its easier to rail on about what cant be done and why but we really all benefit and look much smarter when we try to imagine the limits of what can.

I don't care about "looking smarter" and I don't find it "easy" to rail against this considering I would love a fully new class, but I'm being realistic here for the sake of not setting expectations too high for the future. An actual, separate, new class just doesn't seem feasible to me without heavy concessions made that would counterbalance any benefits the new class would bring.

That has nothing to do with the developers not being able to figure something out for it either, I'm sure they could come up with solutions we'd be happy with as players, but they need the resources to implement those solutions too. That's why a new class is unrealistic. Otherwise, starting them at the Outlander story would work. But the resources required to even do that much, given the things I outlined in my previous post, would be prohibitive. Again, unless they make concessions that would cause the class to be seen as lazy, which would completely defeat the purpose of doing this.

I'm sorry if you feel like this is just railing on why things can't be done, but I want the devs to focus their efforts on things that will bring the most value to the game and I don't think this would work out well given the concessions they'd have to make to get it done. I'd be thrilled if they could make it work, but I don't expect it of them because I've given it thought and realized how enormous of an effort it would be.

That's not how that works, though. You can't pick and choose with the voice acting because their voice has to be consistent throughout the game. So if you pick the Jedi Knight as the "voice" for this hypothetical class, the Jedi Knight's dialogue will have to be used for the entire game for that class. If they used different voices, it'd be incredibly jarring and the class would end up having different voices from scene to scene.

 

Plus, if they just used the Jedi Knight's dialogue for the entire game, they're not really a new class at that point, are they? The dialogue will make clear at some point they're a Jedi, since you took the dialogue from the Jedi Knight, so why even make them a new class? Just make them a third advanced class of the Jedi Knight at that point and save yourself the headache.

 

That's the biggest issue with what you're suggesting, I think they'd get pretty heavily criticized for reusing the voice acting and dialogue and it wouldn't exactly look imaginative either unless the class gameplay was just really inspired. An advanced class is a fine compromise and a much smaller logistical headache, far more realistic in my eyes.

 

 

 

I don't care about "looking smarter" and I don't find it "easy" to rail against this considering I would love a fully new class, but I'm being realistic here for the sake of not setting expectations too high for the future. An actual, separate, new class just doesn't seem feasible to me without heavy concessions made that would counterbalance any benefits the new class would bring.

 

That has nothing to do with the developers not being able to figure something out for it either, I'm sure they could come up with solutions we'd be happy with as players, but they need the resources to implement those solutions too. That's why a new class is unrealistic. Otherwise, starting them at the Outlander story would work. But the resources required to even do that much, given the things I outlined in my previous post, would be prohibitive. Again, unless they make concessions that would cause the class to be seen as lazy, which would completely defeat the purpose of doing this.

 

I'm sorry if you feel like this is just railing on why things can't be done, but I want the devs to focus their efforts on things that will bring the most value to the game and I don't think this would work out well given the concessions they'd have to make to get it done. I'd be thrilled if they could make it work, but I don't expect it of them because I've given it thought and realized how enormous of an effort it would be.

Thank you for this post. While it may seem to some one that we railing on that we don't want this. Most of us would love some new classes but we are also realistic that if it can't be done right like the others then what is the point of it. What sets SWTOR apart from other MMO is their fully voiced stories and using the same voice actor for another class really wouldn't work as you said it would be seem as lazy and that would not please most people.

Do you honestly beleive that the folks at EA and Bioware don't have teams of business analysts crunching the numbers on whether a new class would be profitable or not? I'd wager there are plenty of devs who would love to get the resources to add this sort of thing, and they get told by the bean-counters exactly what a money pit it would be.

Those bean counters nickel and diming people as much as possible and trying to ship out broken, unfinished games for maximum profit are cheap and greedy but don't understand gamers. Look at Mass Effect Andromeda and Anthem as recent BioWare examples. Not exactly cash cows to the surprise of those bean counters.

This issue about cost can EASILY be solved if they want to or bother to. Ask yourself what really contribute to a new class? Most of it has got to do with the abilities. If the cost is too prohibitive on the storyline side (voice acting and what not), then DON'T develop a NEW char but instead use existing class but however ADD ON A NEW DISCIPLINE on top of the 3 existing that we have. Everything stay put except that every existing class now has a 4th discipline.

This 4th discipline MUST be innovative and totally new to the existing and not just repeat and rehash of old stuffs else you will not have the effect of playing a new class. This 4th discipline can even be a non-combat class ability (or alternatively every existing class can now have 2 disciplines concurrently, one combat (which is existing) and one non-combat).

This way of implementing so-called a new class would not incurred any exorbitant cost on the production. Agree?

What could the devs possibly add that brings any real value to starting yet another character? People hold up WoW as the example of adding new classes, but what does Blizzard really do other than introduce something new that's wildly overpowered compared to all the old stuff so that players have no choice but to use the new stuff to stay competitive in PvP and maximize efficiency in PvE? They've had to release WoW Classic to recapture people who liked it just fine before all that.

There's nothing that a new class or discipline is going to do in terms of game mechanics that isn't already accomplished by an existing class / disciplilne. The principal appeal of SWTOR is the story content, the consistent voice acting, and the fact that numerous class stories are interlaced to some degree to make the game feel like one consistent world where each class is influencing the same primary galactic events. Tacking on a new class without that level of story detail is nothing but a cheap gimmick that might yield some very short-term revitalization, but only until the novelty wears off.

I can't wait to have this same tired discussion again in a day or two when someone else posts this exact same thread again.

There's nothing that a new class or discipline is going to do in terms of game mechanics that isn't already accomplished by an existing class / disciplilne.

That is not true at all. In your opinion that may be the case. But as far as my imagination can afford, there are so many so many things that BW has not exploited on their current existing platform. To the outside world, it would seem that they are laying to waste such a luxury that is awaiting them on their existing platform but which they either ignore or don't feel motivated to want to capture it. If you choose to play within the confine of the box, that is your choice. But still the size of this box is still a parameter which you can stretch.

Like I said in my previous post, it is not just implementing class which is just a surface symptom. It is the underlying message which you are sending via the kind of content which you push out in the so-called expansion. I love this game too much that is why I want to put in my voice on this matter, otherwise I can't be bother. I can understand the kind of thinking pre-ANTHEM launch. But now Anthem has shown its report card, I wonder if there is any chance of a re-think of the kind of luxury wasted lying untouched on SWTOR which they may want to re-visit. If they still cannot see it, then employ someone who can.

That is not true at all. In your opinion that may be the case. But as far as my imagination can afford, there are so many so many things that BW has not exploited on their current existing platform. To the outside world, it would seem that they are laying to waste such a luxury that is awaiting them on their existing platform but which they either ignore or don't feel motivated to want to capture it. If you choose to play within the confine of the box, that is your choice. But still the size of this box is still a parameter which you can stretch.

 

Like I said in my previous post, it is not just implementing class which is just a surface symptom. It is the underlying message which you are sending via the kind of content which you push out in the so-called expansion. I love this game too much that is why I want to put in my voice on this matter, otherwise I can't be bother. I can understand the kind of thinking pre-ANTHEM launch. But now Anthem has shown its report card, I wonder if there is any chance of a re-think of the kind of luxury wasted lying untouched on SWTOR which they may want to re-visit. If they still cannot see it, then employ someone who can.

Then help us feeble-minded Hutts who are stuck in a box and are abject failures in imagination. Setting aside the financial / resource constraint issues, I still fully contend that...

Given SWTOR's huge plethora of classes and sub-classes available at launch, I can't think of anything a new class would bring outside of some different animations. The only semi-plausible one I can think of is a hand to hand combat class. But let's be clear -- the distinction would be graphics only.

The other suggestions I've seen have nothing to do with combat or role, but lore -- and the lore explanations I've seen strain credibility.

If it is so easy, enlighten us. If there "are so many things" BW could explore it should be easy for you to choose at least one.

It's difficult to take your criticisms of us having a failure of imagination when you write in generic platitudes and can't imagine one on your own.

Dasty

That is not true at all. In your opinion that may be the case. But as far as my imagination can afford, there are so many so many things that BW has not exploited on their current existing platform. To the outside world, it would seem that they are laying to waste such a luxury that is awaiting them on their existing platform but which they either ignore or don't feel motivated to want to capture it. If you choose to play within the confine of the box, that is your choice. But still the size of this box is still a parameter which you can stretch.

 

Like I said in my previous post, it is not just implementing class which is just a surface symptom. It is the underlying message which you are sending via the kind of content which you push out in the so-called expansion. I love this game too much that is why I want to put in my voice on this matter, otherwise I can't be bother. I can understand the kind of thinking pre-ANTHEM launch. But now Anthem has shown its report card, I wonder if there is any chance of a re-think of the kind of luxury wasted lying untouched on SWTOR which they may want to re-visit. If they still cannot see it, then employ someone who can.

I am with you. With a little imagination and some dev work they could add many new things to the game including new classes. As for costs, none of us know what their budget is or how much they can spend on development.

You'd think people in this thread were personal BW book accountants the way they so confidently presume what BW can and cannot afford. Some people even condemn the idea of a new class being added. Why?

Actually if you look, there are other threads on this topic, and in fact even some lore ideas have been tossed on top of some of the ideas for new classes in the game.

Olbuzzard has a post somewhere, and I even created one less than a month ago with the idea of adding a melee healing class, sort of like a Warrior Priest or Disciple of Khaine if you are familiar with WAR, the old RvR MMO.

So you aren't alone in having ideas or thoughts of new things to add to the game like new classes.

BH Tracker/Trooper Ranger

"The Tracker/Ranger uses the environment to it's advantage."

Archetype: Ranged stealth dps with a support role.

Weapon: Sniper rifle

Camouflage: Blends into environment, making player undetectable.

Snipe shot: High damage shot used out of stealth.

Razornet: Aoe snare and bleed. Placed by movable reticule.

Seeker droid: Medium damage, explodes on contact

Call of the wild: Teammates gain damage buff when near Tracker/Ranger

Last resort: High damage 360* aoe emanating from center of player , can only be used when health is below 30%

Lure: Taunt

Mask scent: Agro drop

Reasoning: Provides BH and Trooper a niche, stealth and sniper rifles, they don't have.

If it is so easy, enlighten us. If there "are so many things" BW could explore it should be easy for you to choose at least one.

 

It's difficult to take your criticisms of us having a failure of imagination when you write in generic platitudes and can't imagine one on your own.

 

Dasty

First I am not criticizing. Some people are imaginative, and some people are not. Some people are tall, some are short. Why would I criticize a tall person just because he is tall? Likewise why would I criticize an unimaginative people when that is what they are? Imaginative is not a virtue nor is it a sin. It is just an attribute. What you use for that imaginative brain is what counts. I will cringe on a highly imaginative criminal and hope instead that unimaginative attribute on such criminal would be a virtue and bring more benefit to the world instead. Again that allegation of criticism is your opinion and which is not my intent.

Furthermore, there is no need for me to enlighten anyone. First, I don't have the capability. I am not Buddha. Second, I see more damage of doing so than letting the ppl who do the work do the thinking. I am not going to provide the fish and then these ppl take the fish and then sit around doing nothing and just waiting for ppl to feed them the next fish.

Don't take my word for it on the above paragraph. And also don't dismiss my word in my previous post. If you want evidence of imaginative innovation (not from stupid me of course), just spend some time playing OTHER MMOs. Just go visit other MMOs and experience for yourselves the things they HAVE ALREADY IMPLEMENTED YEARS AGO in their MMOs. Give some thought about these 'innovatiions' in other MMOs and imagine its context if implemented in SWTOR. It is not difficult. I am not just plugging empty ideas from the air. Let the other MMO dev enlighten you instead.

BH Tracker/Trooper Ranger

"The Tracker/Ranger uses the environment to it's advantage."

Archetype: Ranged stealth dps with a support role.

Weapon: Sniper rifle

 

Camouflage: Blends into environment, making player undetectable.

Snipe shot: High damage shot used out of stealth.

Razornet: Aoe snare and bleed. Placed by movable reticule.

Seeker droid: Medium damage, explodes on contact

Call of the wild: Teammates gain damage buff when near Tracker/Ranger

Last resort: High damage 360* aoe emanating from center of player , can only be used when health is below 30%

Lure: Taunt

Mask scent: Agro drop

 

Reasoning: Provides BH and Trooper a niche, stealth and sniper rifles, they don't have.

I kind of like this. A bit Nova-ish from Heroes of the Storm, but I could see it. Not big on the Lure ability. Why would a ranged stealth want a taunt?

Hugs,

Dasty

I kind of like this. A bit Nova-ish from Heroes of the Storm, but I could see it. Not big on the Lure ability. Why would a ranged stealth want a taunt?

 

Hugs,

 

Dasty

Well, I was trying to keep it in the wilderness theme. Taunt may not work. I'm open to suggestions. Maybe a debuff? I want to separate it from snipers per se and give it more support.

“New classes is something we have discussed for a long time. It’s something I think we all would like to do. But yes, adding them to the original story is something that would probably stop that from going forward. We have looked at lots of ways to do it and talked a lot about how we could add new classes,” the dev reportedly said.

https://massivelyop.com/2016/07/22/star-wars-the-old-republic-devs-get-cagey-on-the-subject-of-new-ops-and-classes/

It's not just about what the *character* says (and, following your suggestion literally as written, do you really want the new class to be obliged to sound like a Jedi even if it's a Sith?), but also about what *NPCs* say. If a new Impside Force User class *isn't* a Sith, should it be greeted universally as "My Lord"? (In some places, the Sith Warrior and Sith Inquisitor greetings are *both* incorrect - a new ImpFU, Sith or not, is neither "Dark Lord" nor "Lord Wrath".)

 

So no, borrowing lines from another class isn't the right solution. Almost all the shortcuts would get the new class marked out immediately as "lame" to a lesser or greater extent. People will expect a new set of lines spoken in a new set of voices, with NPCs responding correctly, and a new story(1). That is *expensive*.

 

And regarding the last part: *I* didn't say it *can't* be done, but that if it is done, it will be hugely expensive compared to adding a class to other MMORPGs. If the projections by their business analysts say that the estimated present and future costs(2) will exceed the estimated possible financial benefits, it won't happen. While I doubt they have access to any specific figures on what other MMORPGs gained in revenue when they added new classes, you can usually infer a reasonable estimate from the published results during times when such releases have happened.

 

Games with class-independent stories, and especially games (er, most of them) with no references to class in their stories, are significantly cheaper to add classes.

 

Final point: adding a new playable species is much cheaper in SWTOR than adding a new class. New species (and above all the ones they've chosen to add) have no impact on game mechanics, armour sets, spoken dialogue (except for a sprinkling of lines that they've so far ignored) and so on. They don't change the stories to any measurable extent. So the cost is a bit of UI, some artwork, customisation options, and a few toggles in Togruta and Nautolans to force-hide helmets. That's it.

 

(1) It's SWTOR. Who's going to be pleased by a new class pair that doesn't have stories on the same scale as the existing four class pairs?

 

(2) Present costs: what it will cost to implement the new class, including story writers, game-mechanics analysis and implementation, voice actors, mechanics testing, PvP balance testing, new UI, new lore entries, a new class ship, changes to the Fleet and other spaceports and orbital stations to accommodate the new ship (where exactly *would* you put the new class's hangar?), and so on and so on.

 

Future costs: all future story development would have its cost increased by the need to record more player lines, more class-specific NPC greetings and suchlike, blah blah blah.

As much as I would prefer to see a new class ADDED … this is pretty much the truth. Call it by whatever label you want .. but the bottom line is it is expensive. (Like it or not … that's just how it is)

The only thing that MIGHT work … (and that's a BIG might) … Would be to add a class that could be justified as being added POST KotFE / ET … A good writer could do that without any problem. BUT .. again !! it is expensive for a number of reasons. Any such addition to the game IMO should come AFTER 6.0 launch IF (and inly IF ) … 6.0 were successfully enough to defray the expense of development.