Why? Because the PVPers in this game have a documented and recorded history of ignoring the spirit of PVP and are known for kill-farming alts on the opposing side? Illum says hello.

unless these "conquest events" occur inside faction bases, you'll face pvp interference on a pvp server. which is the only point of rolling on a pvp server.

sounds like you shouldn't have rolled on a pvp server.

unless these "conquest events" occur inside faction bases, you'll face pvp interference on a pvp server. which is the only point of rolling on a pvp server.

I didn't.

I merely commented that any PVP aspect has to be balanced around the reality that PVPers in this game have a reputation for ignoring the spirit of PVP and simply farm kills on their friends' opposing faction alts.

Why? Because the PVPers in this game have a documented and recorded history of ignoring the spirit of PVP and are known for kill-farming alts on the opposing side? Illum says hello.

I wouldn't even bother if I were you. He has a rather faulty idea of sanity.

That might be the worst analogy I've ever heard. PVPers are murderers now. K.

Wow. I at least allowed the possibility that it would be read by someone intelligent.

And then I got you.

I can't help but point out this terrible logic.

 

There are murderers in this world.

 

But we might as well reward them for it, if it's going to happen anyways.

 

One of a thousand examples I could give for that logic being 100% awful.

That is insane logic. This is a game. If some player action happens, it should be rewarded. And as I mentioned, the very idea of Players being able to Conquer planets is begging to have PvP component

That is insane logic. This is a game. If some player action happens, it should be rewarded. And as I mentioned, the very idea of Players being able to Conquer planets is begging to have PvP component

As long as it doesn't impact the rest of the game, I'm all for it.

Why? Because the PVPers in this game have a documented and recorded history of ignoring the spirit of PVP and are known for kill-farming alts on the opposing side? Illum says hello.

Regular kill trading certainly happened, but I don't know of anyone that ever farmed alts on the opposite faction. Not many people had max level alts back then lol. People just organized it with other players through /say and such. Regardless, that was a long time ago, and it's foolish to use it as a justification for saying "sorry no open world for you guys just stay in warzones where you belong lel". It's sad that you can't even be satisfied with the fact that this new ability to "conquer" planets- which PvPers would love to be able to legitimately take part in- is primarily PvE based. No, you don't want PvPers to be able to be able to participate at all. Please, show us where the bad PvPer touched you.

Regular kill trading certainly happened, but I don't know of anyone that ever farmed alts on the opposite faction. Not many people had max level alts back then lol. People just organized it with other players through /say and such. Regardless, that was a long time ago, and it's foolish to use it as a justification for saying "sorry no open world for you guys just stay in warzones where you belong lel". It's sad that you can't even be satisfied with the fact that this new ability to "conquer" planets- which PvPers would love to be able to legitimately take part in- is primarily PvE based. No, you don't want PvPers to be able to be able to participate at all. Please, show us where the bad PvPer touched you.

PVPers are certainly free to partake in whatever PVE content they wish. They're simply not allowed to kill-farm like they did on Illum. If you have an idea of how to do PVP in a way that ensures that kill-farming can't happen again, then by all means, let's hear it.

PVPers are certainly free to partake in whatever PVE content they wish.

Awww, you really mean it? Deep down, I've always really wanted to be a carebear.

Awww, you really mean it? Deep down, I've always really wanted to be a carebear.

Show us where the PVEer touched you.

I didn't.

 

I merely commented that any PVP aspect has to be balanced around the reality that PVPers in this game have a reputation for ignoring the spirit of PVP and simply farm kills on their friends' opposing faction alts.

the spirit of pvp is to kill opposing faction players. your example is just that.

you're dictating what "has to" happen on servers that you don't play on?

 

the spirit of pvp is to kill opposing faction players. your example is just that.

Correction, the spirit of PVP is to kill opposing players who are fighting back. The 'letter' of PVP is simply killing opposing players.

Technically, killing someone who's standing there letting you kill him is Player vs Player, but it's not in the spirit of the game to do so. And yet, many PVPers are known to have done this.

That's why they have to be treated like children and the game designed to ensure that they can't ignore the spirit of PVPing.

In the email sent out yesterday, there is the line:

 

Conquest Events: use the power of your Stronghold to dominate these events and earn rewards.

 

You've always refered to player housing as a Stronghold and Guild housing as a Flagship. Can I read this to be that we will use our personal Stronghold somehow to compete in these events? Or, should it have been Flagship and not Stronghold?

I'm glad I wasn't the only one that noticed that , it seems from reading it a few times and the lines of text after it , about guild ships , that indeed these conquest events might not only be for guilds but individuals owning strongholds too. It's a shame eric didn't post about it really as many asked if there would be content for people outside of guilds.

Cheers,

BadOrb.

Correction, the spirit of PVP is to kill opposing players who are fighting back. The 'letter' of PVP is simply killing opposing players.

 

Technically, killing someone who's standing there letting you kill him is Player vs Player, but it's not in the spirit of the game to do so. And yet, many PVPers are known to have done this.

 

That's why they have to be treated like children and the game designed to ensure that they can't ignore the spirit of PVPing.

Where are you getting evidence that kill-trading has ever been a serious problem with this game? Your own anecdotal experience?

Forgive me, but that sounds like a pretty shaky foundation for sweeping claims about how PVPers "have to be treated".

Has it ever happened? Sure. But there's also been win-trading in Arenas, that doesn't mean the whole concept of Ranked PVP should be thrown out.

Correction, the spirit of PVP is to kill opposing players who are fighting back. The 'letter' of PVP is simply killing opposing players.

 

Technically, killing someone who's standing there letting you kill him is Player vs Player, but it's not in the spirit of the game to do so. And yet, many PVPers are known to have done this.

 

That's why they have to be treated like children and the game designed to ensure that they can't ignore the spirit of PVPing.

Observation: Unfortunately most meatbags who prefer PvP don't understand this concept. It's at the point to where it's practically physically impossible for them to comprehend it. So when they have restrictions placed on them, they whine about it. Which is what they do anyway.

Aside: At least they do on my server on Republic side. Whine and argue in General Chat.

PVPers are certainly free to partake in whatever PVE content they wish. They're simply not allowed to kill-farm like they did on Illum. If you have an idea of how to do PVP in a way that ensures that kill-farming can't happen again, then by all means, let's hear it.

People are really smart about circumventing any forms of restriction, so there is not abuse-proof method of stopping that from happening.

People are really smart about circumventing any forms of restriction, so there is not abuse-proof method of stopping that from happening.

No dude he's right, it's way better to have no content than potentially exploitable content. Wait what

Can you elaborate on that ? I'm just curious. I have heard of that game, but never played it.

I'll try not to bloviate.

Ryzom, formerly known as the Saga of Ryzom, is a strong example of how a game company (or, in this case, multiple game companies) can take a really strong story idea (in this instance: You're a Homin living on a planet that's essentially a giant worldtree - no metal, contiguous world, sandbox style, etc.), add a war element, and end up with a hot mess afterward.

In this particular game, controllable outposts were added for guild warfare. After the dust settled post-server merge (the game is finally down to just one server - no idea how it manages to stay alive, but I suspect the story's got a lot to do with it), the largest guilds controlled these outposts and the items they produced. These items added powerful boosts to in-game craftable weapons, which soon caused several paradigm shifts.

The two most important? The coin of the realm - the dapper - was rendered completely worthless as the largest guilds refused to accept them in trade for the uberitems. Soon, the entire economy became resource-based.

(I'd like to note that I don't have a particular problem with a resource-based economy... but I am STRONGLY in the minority there!)

Since the largest guilds were in control of the economy after that, hardly anyone bothered to create any more guilds. Survival depended on joining one of the few guilds in control of the outposts, because A) only they had access to the ubermaterials and B) the economy went resource-based - to buy anything worthwhile, one needed to work like a Japanese beaver or simply join one of the guilds in control.

I don't think I have to tell you how stagnant that gets - particularly if, as in the case of Ryzom, the power guilds in charge of the desirable, controllable properties don't really feel like changing the status quo.

That's why I'm exceptionally concerned about this one particular facet of the new update. If Conquest means ANY kind of in-game advantage a player can't get elsewhere (preferably without buying - no one likes a wallet warrior, after all) then odds are pretty good something like this can happen.

I don't want to see that here. SWTOR's a great game with a vibrant, diverse community. Bioware would do very well to preserve that, as it is the game's strongest draw by far. -bp

I lol'd, you know the conquest for world is PVE related right?, Having this on RP servers or PVE servers is nothing. you want this on pvp servers? i mean every server has RP people, Pve People, PVP people, having them to focus solely on pvp server will piss each and everysingle person on non-PVP server.

 

and to state the fact that if this was pvp related and you want to see this only on pvp server then why dont u start about complaining that in pve and rp servers about the flaging part where other people can still attack you.

 

There on every servers RP, PVP and PVE guilds, heck there are even RP PVP PVE Guilds all in one and u want to deny most of the people that fact? im on a pvp and a pve server and both side are happy about the conquest stuff.

 

and like i said before its PVE related so you prolly wont even be fighting against other players but NPC's. if you still think this is bad, then start complaining about HM and NiM modes where only (supposedly ) the best of the best can get it done and get the best of the best pve gear that's available in the game atm which gets the guild well known and allot of items which arent available in other modes, so having the best of the best guild ranking on top to get bonus and other buff isn't anything new, the same for pvp ranks getting rewards for being the best of the best.

 

so stop talking about things that dont even make sense.

 

OT, glad for the delay, means they will take their time, making it better then it would have been at early access previous date. Happy for both stronghold and guild conquest rank, same as GSF and PVP has ranks.

My GOD, you can't type. I'll try to translate as best as I can, in order by paragraph:

* Considering none of us have even seen an alpha of this concept - and the change was just announced - I don't see how you can be so all-fired sure things won't change in development as they are wont to do. If it remains just a PvE thing that everyone can do, then there's no issue. But I doubt strongly that'll be the case as more details are announced.

* I'm sorry. I sat and stared at the second paragraph for a while but couldn't see a coherent point. It seems like you were simply upset that I mentioned PvPers by name. If that's the case... I don't know what to tell you, man. If it isn't, kindly clarify. Thanks in advance.

* You'll forgive me if I ignore anecdotal evidence in favor of the historical record RE: MMO gaming, I'm sure. But kudos on getting a proper poll done on the topic so quickly. Do you work for Quinnipiac or something? (Look it up.)

* In that whole mess, one pseudoword stands out - "prolly". (I assume you meant "probably" and were just extremely pressed for time.) It doesn't sound like you're as certain as to what's going to happen, or what the final product will be.

No one is. There's no final product yet and no definite list of features. Perfect time to raise concerns, isn't it? That way it can be avoided if someone else comes along and says "let's make this a guild war thang!"

Ounce of prevention and all that. -bp

If some player action happens, it should be rewarded.

No, no, it shouldn't.

Guy robs a guild bank, takes 20m credits. Should BW give him 1000 CC too, to reward him for taking action?

Guy ragequits a group finder group. Should BW give him the loot of every mob he would've killed?

Guy plays through the Sith Inquisitor class story five times. Should BW give him 500 CC, simply for doing something?

No.

No, no, it shouldn't.

 

Guy robs a guild bank, takes 20m credits. Should BW give him 1000 CC too, to reward him for taking action?

 

Guy ragequits a group finder group. Should BW give him the loot of every mob he would've killed?

 

Guy plays through the Sith Inquisitor class story five times. Should BW give him 500 CC, simply for doing something?

 

 

No.

You are correct in that it is silly to claim that ALL player actions should be rewarded. However, open world pvp (you know, players engaging in the actual war, on the actual planets of the game), is probably worthy of encouragement.

Where are you getting evidence that kill-trading has ever been a serious problem with this game? Your own anecdotal experience?

 

Forgive me, but that sounds like a pretty shaky foundation for sweeping claims about how PVPers "have to be treated".

 

Has it ever happened? Sure. But there's also been win-trading in Arenas, that doesn't mean the whole concept of Ranked PVP should be thrown out.

One of the reasons OWPvP was cut from Ilum was due to the Kill Trading and people not wanting to fight in the way it was intended.

And Arenas are different from OWPvP because you are talking about it in an Controlled environment with limited players plus bioware can easily find those that take part in win-trading.

OWPvP is a different monster with no control variable

As long as the PVP component doesn't interfere with the PVE side of things, sure.

 

Oh, and it doesn't lead to farming kills with your friends on opposing-side alts.

Hrm, thats why you have PvE servers?

You are correct in that it is silly to claim that ALL player actions should be rewarded. However, open world pvp (you know, players engaging in the actual war, on the actual planets of the game), is probably worthy of encouragement.

See, this is why I don't put you on ignore. Because eventually you come back with a completely accurate statement that I can't help high-fiving