From the recent Q&A panel the last question and answer are as follows:

 

Lexiekaboom: 16 man Operations are much harder than 8 man Operations (to the point where most guilds can easily clear hard mode 8 man before being able to clear 16 man easy mode) but there is no loot difference at all to doing them. It's better to send your 16 man raid force to clear two 8 man instances .Is this oversight or design? What will be done to offset this in the future?

 

Gabe Amatangelo: This is not per design. The teams have been addressing this in the weekly patches to some degree and more so in Game Update 1.2. It is intended that 16 player mode is slightly easier than 8 player mode due to the fact that getting and coordinating 16 players is a larger hurdle in and of itself.

 

 

I would like to make a plea to the Dev's in regards to this and hope that like minded individuals will respond.

 

Please DO NOT make 16 man operations easier than 8 man. I would venture to say that a vast majority of guilds that chose to do 16 man content is because they prefer the challenge. I know this is the case for my guild. If a guild set out from the start to be a solely 16 man guild then they probably did so expecting a stiffer challenge.

 

The ideal situation would be for the two size of raids to be equal in difficulty, as well as equal in rewards. Or even better yet I would love the WOLTK model of the bigger raids being harder, as well as getting better rewards. I like the challenge. I like the prestige of completing harder content, and the rewards that come with that.

 

As it stands right now 16 man content IS harder and I like that. Now there are a few exceptions where 8 man SOA is harder than 16 in my opinion, as well as fabricator droid in Karaggas is harder on 8 man as well. Other than that 16's are as difficult or more so than 8's. I like this, and I'm bothered by the response to the question posted in the Q&A. I don't want the easier route. Yes getting 16 people on the same page is harder than 8. This much is true, but if people were already committed to 16's I bet they were already planning on and expecting a bigger challenge so it is accepted and welcomed.

 

So again I plea to the Dev's to NOT make 16's easier than 8's. Make them equal or keep them harder. I hope most 16 man guilds would agree.

Signed. We don't want to see them easier either.

Coming from some one who has only done 8 person ops and will probably never get a chance to do 16 person ops, I completely agree. In my mind 16 person ops should be marginally harder (even including the extra 8 people to coordinate) and drop marginally better loot (like a tier x.5 sort of thing).

 

Ideally this would encourage more people to run 16 person operations (not everyone raids just for the fun of it!) while still keeping a decent population of people who do 8 person ops.

make the raids harder and not easier and u wont loose a few 100 k subscribers

signed

Signed, if this game doesn't get harder soon we're just going to leave for something else.

Signed, if this game doesn't get harder soon we're just going to leave for something else.

 

I think many people are feeling this way. At least the hardcore raiders.

/signed

NO, I want them to make 8man and 4 man the hardest encounters. Its already too hard to find 16ppl. I want to play with my friends.

 

So please BW make the the content for 8man the hardest!

 

tyvm

 

and btw i quitted one month ago.

signed

I do hope they're aware this will hurt the game more than almost everything they've done to it so far.

 

Appealing to the more casual population with a subscription based model is not how to do it; there's going to be absolutely no competitive end-game. The content race is going to turn into 'who can get 8 people on right after servers come up on Tuesday.'

 

Pathetic. This Amatengalo guy really needs to find a new career path. Maybe insurance.

Edited February 20, 2012 by Kibaken

They should bring 8 man and 16 man on one Level. To make 16 man Easier just for the Reason that it is complicated to gather the 16 People is the stupiest answer i ever heard from a Game Designer....... what type of LSD did this guy´s kick into their Coke?

/signed

 

 

The only reason it's hard to get 16 people together is because there is no point.

 

Give 16 some better loot and people will try. There are lots of groups out there that are looking at 16...but end up splitting into two 8s.

 

 

Edit: I'm in a PvP guild, and even we are finding the PvE content too easy. I can only imagine it's a faceroll for the people who do PvE as their main focus.

Edited February 20, 2012 by Soazak

/signed

 

 

The only reason it's hard to get 16 people together is because there is no point.

 

Give 16 some better loot and people will try. There are lots of groups out there that are looking at 16...but end up splitting into two 8s.

 

Or there aren't 16 people there due to massive server population issues.

Or there aren't 16 people there due to massive server population issues.

 

Different issue entirely.

 

Larger raids should be more challenging than smaller ones. They should consider a difference in the 8/16 loot, before they assume that people are not doing them because they can't get the numbers together.

/signed

/signed

 

Make all the content bug free, but more difficult. Also, ffs use more than 1 tanks. You know that was the dumbest design decision yet. GZ and GA claim to have actually played MMO's before this job, and they should have known better to start.

/signed

 

I could understand the statement if it was the other way around, since casuals usually run smaller ops. It is just more easy to find 7 other player than 15. So let the 16 man be slightly (or even much) more difficult, so that 8 mans are more accessible for casuals - both in regards of manpower and difficulty.

 

As a hardcore raider myself, I (and probably most other hardcore raiders) even have no problem with these "easy" raids providing the same loot, codex entries, titles, etc.

 

However, the hardcorde raiders WANT a challenge. A challenge which is currently not in the game. Because it is the very first tier, it is understandable - although unexspected, since there is a Nightmare mode (which does not live up to its name).

 

Also, almost all guilds which are seriously raiding are raiding 16 man. Go on with this change and most of these guilds will break up:

 

If the new 8 man ops are more difficult, the hardcore guilds will reduce their rooster for the mainraid drastically. Some guilds of course will run multiple 8 mans, but there WILL be problems due to a first and second (or even third) string.

/signed

I agree that making 8 man the more complicated raiding level is a quick way to break up a lot of endgame guilds. We took our time gearing out 16 players for 16 man content instead of rushing straight through nightmare with our original group. We did this because 16 man content is and should be harder, and that was our goal from the beginning. We to are looking for a challenge, if we are required to condense to an 8 man raid group there will be a lot of people left out in the cold.

I'm happy with 16m being harder. But as they say the hard mode 8m shouldnt be easier then 16m normal.

/signed

signed

Signed

signed