Cmon bioware. This is the most useless class in pve in dps specs! The worst dps on dps challenges because this class was not properly designed. Change it!

As far as I am aware the class may not have the highest DPS, but what you gain in return is a massive amount of raid utility. You have a raid wide buff, sorc bubble, off heals, force pull, and a combat rez. Couple that with the fact that it is a ranged class and has great AOE damage and you get an amazing class. I will not argue that sorc DPS for the dot spec may be a little low, but it is far from a useless class.

As far as I am aware the class may not have the highest DPS, but what you gain in return is a massive amount of raid utility. You have a raid wide buff, sorc bubble, off heals, force pull, and a combat rez. Couple that with the fact that it is a ranged class and has great AOE damage and you get an amazing class. I will not argue that sorc DPS for the dot spec may be a little low, but it is far from a useless class.

But when you try and do all that stuff, the complexity of the class is enormous. Just the sustained DPS rotations are ridiculously complex and then to have it be low AND complex is a hard pill to swallow.

But when you try and do all that stuff, the complexity of the class is enormous. Just the sustained DPS rotations are ridiculously complex and then to have it be low AND complex is a hard pill to swallow.

 

The number of abilities does not make the class hard to play. The rotations are very simple and you never have to worry about your energy consumption as DPS. There may be some people who can't handle all the extra things sorcerers can do, but none of them are required to play the class.

But its basically the laughing stock of the DPS classes. Come on. The Sorc should be one of the most powerful beings in the Star Wars Universe(unless he has a lightsaber siting on his arm chair)

That is true, but I would argue that PT dps is in an even worse spot than sorcerers.

PT dps is in an awesome place. Pyro atm is the top parsing spec and AP still has rlly good sustained dps with the best burst in the game. Having 1 pt is basically metta for most NiM raid groups.

PT dps is in an awesome place. Pyro atm is the top parsing spec and AP still has rlly good sustained dps with the best burst in the game. Having 1 pt is basically metta for most NiM raid groups.

 

As much as I sympathize with the plight of sage dps (you guys are squishy as crap), I do feel the need to point out that VG dps is just as squishy... And melee too!

Sorc dps rotations complex?

 

Madness is the easiest dot-spec in the game and lightning is a very simple priority system, not to mention both specs have infinite force.

 

Also saying sorcs have off-heals and bubbles is misleading because to utilize these you have to sacrifice your already low dps.

Buoware have been lying to us on how balance should work. Madness is sustained rDPS and its dps is so low compare to burstly mDPS.. even though they should be on the same target dps. Any range class is better thn a sorc. People who are trying to say that we sorcs are crying too much are wrong. I am a top sorc on a dummy and I can do revan hm as a sorc dps but there is no way my sorc is usefull. I do 5.1k on core burn as a sorc while on a merc arsenal i can do over 6,5k. I rerolled on mara and managed to do 6,5k on core without even trying hard.

 

So yeah sorc need a big buff otherwise it still will be the wors dps class for NiM content and ranked pvp.

 

PT is the best mDPS atm. Feels like good players left the game and only casual players stayed that don't do NiM contend and Tr but do sm and unranked and saying thet sorcs are ok.. tired or u guys...

Edited December 20, 2017 by BraverDre

Buoware have been lying to us on how balance should work. Madness is sustained rDPS and its dps is so low compare to burstly mDPS.. even though they should be on the same target dps. Any range class is better thn a sorc. People who are trying to say that we sorcs are crying too much are wrong. I am a top sorc on a dummy and I can do revan hm as a sorc dps but there is no way my sorc is usefull. I do 5.1k on core burn as a sorc while on a merc arsenal i can do over 6,5k. I rerolled on mara and managed to do 6,5k on core without even trying hard.

 

So yeah sorc need a big buff otherwise it still will be the wors dps class for NiM content and ranked pvp.

 

PT is the best mDPS atm. Feels like good players left the game and only casual players stayed that don't do NiM contend and Tr but do sm and unranked and saying thet sorcs are ok.. tired or u guys...

 

Top sorc parse in 2017? LuL. Do you want a cookie? You complain about sorc dps. Have you even cleared all of the NiM content as one this tier? If not then I really don't think you are in a position to talk about what/why sorc is "bad". Lightning is perfectly fine where it is. Madness does need a boost for sure, but all I ever see from you is complaints with no concrete ideas on what could/should be changed. Do you want sorc to be better or do you just want to complain about how bad it is? Based on your post history over the last year I would say it's the latter.

brave is the type of kid who drools while playing sorcs and yells lightbing zssshsh zhsshsh cuz it's too hard for him to pronounce lightning .

But but sion u r a "failure". Come back to carrying me as a tank please.

Buoware have been lying to us on how balance should work. Madness is sustained rDPS and its dps is so low compare to burstly mDPS.. even though they should be on the same target dps. Any range class is better thn a sorc. People who are trying to say that we sorcs are crying too much are wrong. I am a top sorc on a dummy and I can do revan hm as a sorc dps but there is no way my sorc is usefull. I do 5.1k on core burn as a sorc while on a merc arsenal i can do over 6,5k. I rerolled on mara and managed to do 6,5k on core without even trying hard.

 

So yeah sorc need a big buff otherwise it still will be the wors dps class for NiM content and ranked pvp.

 

PT is the best mDPS atm. Feels like good players left the game and only casual players stayed that don't do NiM contend and Tr but do sm and unranked and saying thet sorcs are ok.. tired or u guys...

 

I have seen you go into every other's classes forum and defend why they were nerfed more and harder than they should have been based on what reason's were given by Bioware for doing so. At the same time I have seen you ask for buffs when you're spec [madness] is one of the VERY few specs in the game that did not get nerfed in the class balalacing fiasco of 5.x, but in fact got BUFFed.

 

You want two buffs in a meta that has seen multiple specs nerfed repeatedly? You are out of your mind if you think any spec or class in this game deserves multiple buffs back to back in this meta, all the more so that Madness is a ranged spec. This is a ranged meta, if sorcs were so bad you wouldn't see 700 million of them in WZ. I would make the claim, that after mercs and snipers, and sometimes even more than snipers, you see more sorcs in WZs than any other class. Furthermore, at least in WZ, Sorc DPS, especially Madness is far from suck, in fact, I see Madness toping the scoreboard on ocassion. I know a few Lightining sorcs who seem to be able to rip a merc or sniper's *** apart and Mara's but smart use of their utility choices, slows, and their 35' attack range which is only equaled by snipers.

 

Anyone who thinks that Sorc DPS should be anything but on the lower side is not being impartial in their appraisal of their classes. Madness is a ranged sustained dot-spread class, and I've seen you asking for better burst. A sustained, ranged dot-spread spec, sure, because good burst makes sense than, right?

 

Of course you're mara should do better DPS. What idiot would think that it should be any other way? It's a melee class = harder and less range and here's a couple of other reasons why it should do more damage than your sorc - It can't heal, it can't off heal, it can't switch specs, it can't attack from 30' when mechanics force it to move out of it's attack range [and if you're really doing Revan HM, don't tell me that range doesn't matter and you have the same up time on your mara as your sorc, becauses that's a ball faced lie. You're not the only one who has ever done Revan HM on a Mara.], it can't teleport, it can't pull people out of danger, it can't get healed AT THE EXACT SAME TIME it does damage [that's a more valid argument for Lightning, but it isn't for Madness], it has half the CC options [sorcs have reactive CC ability], it's not as flexibly mobile,it cannot move as fast as a Sorc can, and last but not least, it's alot safer to play a sorc than it is to play a Mara, sorcs aren't within 4' of bosses all the time [pretty much never] time, which is exactly where Maras have to be most of the time. Where you get the idea that Madness is hard to play, I can't even begin to imagine, even Lighting is harder than madness.

 

Defenses are valid arguments to make in PVP, Sorc defenses and heals aren't valid arguments with regard to DPS output in PVE. You will always have healers around to heal you, in addition to having the option of healing yourself. Sorc heals may come at the expense of some DPS [More lightning than madness], but, it's a nice option to have, and one that Maras don't have at all. Adding to that argument, there is the old standby which I'm sure if you are so a master raider that you have undoubtedly heard - You can't DPS when you are dead. So, a dps loss to heal one's self, is a far smaller dps loss than death is.

 

 

Ohh yeah, and last time I checked, Sorc dps isn't the lowest, but I don't see you calling for buffs to that class that is under you.

 

You don't want balance, you don't want fair, you don't even want what's best for the game. You want Sorc superiority. If, you wanted balance, fair, and what's best for the game, you wouldn't be doing two things.

 

1 - Going into every other class forum when they get nerfed and applauding BW for nerfing them and defending even those nerfs that are completely unfounded.

 

2 - Supporting the class balancing strategy that BW is using currently, which by it's very essence ensure's that class balance can never be even remotely achieved.

 

You call for nerfs of literealy every other single class, you cackle with delight at every other classes nerf, but than you have the balls to cry rivers because your spec didn't get buffed TWICE?? - Stop using defensives, survival, or what DCDs the other ranged specs have as a basis for anything to due with class balance, because under the current system which you are trying to make them stick too, and which you site with glee and applaud BW whenever any other class get's nerfed justly or not, DCDs nor survival, nor utility, nor DPS loss due to self healing, or that you can't attack when you're totally invulnerable, or any other variable for that matter, because none of that matters under the current strategy being used for class balance. These things should matter, but they don't. But honestly, it wouldn't be much better for sorcs if they did matter, because there would be quite a few reasons why their dps should still be on the lower end, because they have so many other abilities and support capabilities that they are unmatched in.

 

 

For the record, I have always supported Sorcs even though I never have no would I ever even consider playing one, they are always my first choice to have as an Ally. If I can have any class to buddy up with in PVP, I'd pick a sorc every single time because they are useful as hell, have so many abilities that can effect objectives, and are the best support class in the entire game due to their diversity and ability to effect other plays beneficially.

 

Keeping calling for nerfs of everyone around you. Keep going into other class forums when they get nerfed and applaud the BW for nerfing them. Keep thinking that you are owed a second buff in the same meta where virtually every other class has specs that were nerfed multiple times and are a lot harder to play then madness. Keep trying to work your class to the top by stepping over and on everyone else's with joy. - No spec in this game, in this meta of unrelenting and at times even baseless nerfs, deserves a double buff. People would lose their minds.

 

Karma's a bytch.

 

P.S. That you base the current DPS pecking order on the top parses on Parsely explains a lot, about a great many of your opinions.

well played sorc is still super annoying to deal with, they still have a overloaded kit with lots of utility.

 

sorcs is the only class with 3 oops i messed up button.

aoe knock back

speed boost every few seconds

teleport thats game changing

pull

free damage mitigation bubbles that can be applied on allies.

much easier energy management, force > heat/ammo/energy

one of the best instant self heals

leave me along bubble

2 decent dps spec

best and easiest heal spec

 

before any buffs can be given to sorc, their utility will need to be lowered significantly

Sorc dmg relative to other ranged:

 

Madness with high alacrity is almost as good as IO - flawless parses will be between 9.5k and 10k depending on crits (whereas IO right now, played flawlessly, is between 9600-10.3k - a wider range).

 

Lightning is still lagging behind a bit, doing between 9300-9800. Arsenal and Marksman do between 9300-9700, so lightning is a little ahead of the curve. Virulence and Engineering are way overperforming (10k+) but are rng-heavy.

Edited December 25, 2017 by Hoppinswtor

Hahah some of u guys just want sorc to be bad. Go do NiM and see how bad u will perform on dps challenges compare to other classes. I rerolled already and I have 0 problems playing on the other class but I hate how devs ruined my favorite class in the game after listening to warzone noobs in 4.0.

brave is the type of kid who drools while playing sorcs and yells lightbing zssshsh zhsshsh cuz it's too hard for him to pronounce lightning .

 

Hahaha its madness that I worry about.

Are you seriously saying that DPS Sorcerers should care about Off-Heals? Or pulling someone from danger? Are you f**king serious? DPS Sorcerers concentrate on damage input, whom from the Sorcerers players who play DPS spec would concentrate on Off-Healing or Pulling someone out of danger? Are you telling me that when you play Scoundrel/Operative, you do off heal when you play pure DPS spec? Come on, don't make me laugh... NO ONE from the DPS who play Healer Classes, heal anyone during an OP... even when its too late or the Healers themselves are indanger... and in most casses most healers do just fine in OPs, without Off-Heal... and as far for Healing in PvP Ranked Matches... the only skill which a sorcerer DPS use as a heal, is the Unnatural Preservation in the most tough moments and still doesn't help... because in the next second... you took double more damage... and on top of that, if you use the Bubble, it gets squished on the second hit... where is the Balance in that? Because I see none... and I am Sorcerer DPS, with 248 Item Ratings, who does daily PvP ranked... and I still have a hard time surviving... because its almost Impossible! Especially if Marauder is behind you with a slow and saber throws... there is NO BALANCE in that! No matter what you tell me...

The specs are pretty much fine; it's the defensive that needs adjusting, because you waste too many GCDs trying to keep yourself alive in pvp.

 

The damage isn't too far off the mark. With the new augments, a passable madness parse is like 9800; a passable lightning parse is like 9550. That's not too far from the other ranged classes. Madness only needs about a 200 dps increase; lightning needs maybe 50 at most. If bioware simply buffed Demolish overall damage by 11 percent for madness, and buffed Thundering Blast by 2 percent, they would hit these targets.

 

Moving static barrier off the GCD (and giving it a 4 second cooldown) would go a long way. Better yet, move resurgence off the GCD as well (but extend its CD to 9 seconds). This would still emphasize kiting while rewarding players with high apm by increasing their DPS under pressure.

Edited January 2, 2018 by Hoppinswtor

The specs are pretty much fine; it's the defensive that needs adjusting, because you waste too many GCDs trying to keep yourself alive in pvp.

 

The damage isn't too far off the mark. With the new augments, a passable madness parse is like 9800; a passable lightning parse is like 9550. That's not too far from the other ranged classes. Madness only needs about a 200 dps increase; lightning needs maybe 50 at most. If bioware simply buffed Demolish overall damage by 11 percent for madness, and buffed Thundering Blast by 2 percent, they would hit these targets.

 

Moving static barrier off the GCD (and giving it a 4 second cooldown) would go a long way. Better yet, move resurgence off the GCD as well (but extend its CD to 9 seconds). This would still emphasize kiting while rewarding players with high apm by increasing their DPS under pressure.

 

I totally agree witg u. These changes would fix the broken class. I wish they will do that

In the nearest future like 5.7

Edited January 3, 2018 by BraverDre

I really hate to be that guy but coming from the progression grind in wow to raid ops over here i feel I can't keep my mouth shut about this.

Sorce/sage is bottom of the pack sure.... but bottom of the pack in swtor is 10-15% below the top. I celebrate that because frankly 10-15% Is AWESOME for a dps gap in an mmo anymore. It's hard to get much closer than that and coming from wow where literally 1 item on a class can make the difference of 20+% on your parse ea/bioware have done a pretty good job.

 

Sadly if numbers are involved there has to be a top and there has to be a bottom. But every spec in this game is capable of pulling the required dps to down bosses without anyone else needing to make up for their lack there of. Vs other leaders in the mmo world where there are gaps big enough to make certain specs a true liability to have in your team....

 

Sorry to whatever spec ends up on the bottom because people will always view it as terrible and weak but grats to the devs for having such a tight race in the parse potential through what is pretty damn good balance.

I really hate to be that guy but coming from the progression grind in wow to raid ops over here i feel I can't keep my mouth shut about this.

Sorce/sage is bottom of the pack sure.... but bottom of the pack in swtor is 10-15% below the top. I celebrate that because frankly 10-15% Is AWESOME for a dps gap in an mmo anymore. It's hard to get much closer than that and coming from wow where literally 1 item on a class can make the difference of 20+% on your parse ea/bioware have done a pretty good job.

 

Sadly if numbers are involved there has to be a top and there has to be a bottom. But every spec in this game is capable of pulling the required dps to down bosses without anyone else needing to make up for their lack there of. Vs other leaders in the mmo world where there are gaps big enough to make certain specs a true liability to have in your team....

 

Sorry to whatever spec ends up on the bottom because people will always view it as terrible and weak but grats to the devs for having such a tight race in the parse potential through what is pretty damn good balance.

 

Sorry but u are wrong. Sorc dps classes are broken and cant pass most NiM dps checks without beeing carried. Feels like u are talking about something u are not 100% sure about. This class is so broken that it feels like it should not even exist as a dps. Devs should delete sorc dps or fix it.

 

I would never recommend playing the game as a sorc if they want to do end game content like NiM or ranked pvp.

Edited January 4, 2018 by BraverDre

I think the mentality of dps is all that matters has absolutely obliterated specs, classes, and even whole games in the past. To everyone who overlooks raid utility I have to say shame... (because I'm not really a pvper but this could potentially stand against that as well). As others have pointed out dead dps is 0 dps. Groups that get hung up on progression are often held up due to a mentality that is "I must deeps and fill my role at all times no matter what" then end up dead of end up with a dead team mate they could have saved. A couple GCDs to save someone are worth so much more than the extra 20-30k damage you could have put on that boss. Not to mention your damage buff for the raid should easily close the gap that they have to "carry" you through. If you give everyone even a 50dps increase through that then you can easily make a point there is 300+ dps would be gone if you weren't brought. That extra boost helps get your group through burn phases and more. The pull can legit save someone from fire/cc they got hit with and at a small cost of 1 gcd.

 

I'm not saying being higher wouldn't be nice... I mean who doesn't like sliding their face across their keyboard and being number 1? But the gap isn't that big. This game has a difference between the specs which is expected but that gap is so small it ain't funny. It's just dps is a good trade for being able to have a large impact on a fight. Frankly for GS being able to reduce all damage on the whole raid by 20% for 20 seconds I would say they might do too much damage. That is a spell that can single handedly change an attempt. Sorc has some of the best spells that are hidden on usefulness to logs that people overlook. It's a shame.

 

Oh and if your raid lead is hanging you out to dry because your dps wasn't up to snuff because you saved someone or tried to save someone then you should look at them and their mental stability as a stumbling block more than trying to blame a class. All the classes in tor are made to offer so much more than just dps. But if it's not able to be measured people don't care about it and whine about what can be measured.

 

What is the worth of a good raider? What makes a good player? Is it how well they can use the same static rotation of 50% of their spells that they get to practice on day after day to eek out that last 20dps their spec limits them too (maybe changing the duration of a fight by 5-10 seconds)? Or is it how well they use the spells that can't be practiced by simple spam on a dummy but can alter the outcome of a fight entirely?

 

10% less damage than the top classes isn't going to make your team fail. Mistakes that kill you because your trying to prove your place on a team will.

I think the mentality of dps is all that matters has absolutely obliterated specs, classes, and even whole games in the past. To everyone who overlooks raid utility I have to say shame... (because I'm not really a pvper but this could potentially stand against that as well). As others have pointed out dead dps is 0 dps. Groups that get hung up on progression are often held up due to a mentality that is "I must deeps and fill my role at all times no matter what" then end up dead of end up with a dead team mate they could have saved. A couple GCDs to save someone are worth so much more than the extra 20-30k damage you could have put on that boss. Not to mention your damage buff for the raid should easily close the gap that they have to "carry" you through. If you give everyone even a 50dps increase through that then you can easily make a point there is 300+ dps would be gone if you weren't brought. That extra boost helps get your group through burn phases and more. The pull can legit save someone from fire/cc they got hit with and at a small cost of 1 gcd.

 

I'm not saying being higher wouldn't be nice... I mean who doesn't like sliding their face across their keyboard and being number 1? But the gap isn't that big. This game has a difference between the specs which is expected but that gap is so small it ain't funny. It's just dps is a good trade for being able to have a large impact on a fight. Frankly for GS being able to reduce all damage on the whole raid by 20% for 20 seconds I would say they might do too much damage. That is a spell that can single handedly change an attempt. Sorc has some of the best spells that are hidden on usefulness to logs that people overlook. It's a shame.

 

Oh and if your raid lead is hanging you out to dry because your dps wasn't up to snuff because you saved someone or tried to save someone then you should look at them and their mental stability as a stumbling block more than trying to blame a class. All the classes in tor are made to offer so much more than just dps. But if it's not able to be measured people don't care about it and whine about what can be measured.

 

What is the worth of a good raider? What makes a good player? Is it how well they can use the same static rotation of 50% of their spells that they get to practice on day after day to eek out that last 20dps their spec limits them too (maybe changing the duration of a fight by 5-10 seconds)? Or is it how well they use the spells that can't be practiced by simple spam on a dummy but can alter the outcome of a fight entirely?

 

10% less damage than the top classes isn't going to make your team fail. Mistakes that kill you because your trying to prove your place on a team will.

 

If you think that such a thing is more important then the damage output... I must disagree. I will tell you why, because each class has its own raid buff... but they still have higher damage output... while sorcerers hang in the back... sorry but that is the reality. While their raid buff is as valuable as any other... One raid buff skill, can't overcome the lack of damage. Simply because it will help, but it won't pull you to the top. I am not sure why there should be top and bottom DPS, that would be unbalanced. A game which is balanced is a game which equally gives important skills to all classes and the same damage output for DPS and the same defense and threat levels for tanks, and the same healing outputs as the rest... that is truly balanced game and Bioware is far from that... if they continue to use this stupid table of higher and lower... they will never have happy players. That how things truly are. If they want true balance they should consider putting DPS and the rest of the stats for the specific classes on the same pedestal if not with skills then with gear...

Edited January 4, 2018 by SammuelColdheart