Yes its part of the game but until yesterday's patch you could avoid it if you were a sub. Now its harder to avoid it and it interferes with your game experience. Thats more what I meant

 

Maybe BioWare will make 2 sets of end game available. Stupid ones like Black Hole where you spend weeks on min-maxing and are available in-game and perfect ones that you can buy straight from the CM.

 

And yes last night we got a new Warzone but Im talking about this patch setting a precedent for the future.

The thing is that until yesterday I was sure that BioWare still had control over this game, but now Im sure that EA has full control over this game and makes all the decisions. We all know that EA is a cashcow milker and wont look around twice to turn every penny three times and nickle and dime as much as possible from its customers (see every sports game) and Im not surprised if they made the choice to put Warzones and Ops onto the CM without it being free for subscribers. I really honestly would not put it past them. If they make these choices it will of course ruin the game and wil turn into a "I have more money than you so I get to play more content than you even though we're both subscribers".

EA keeps forgetting that they dont have the loyal subjects like WoW has. People dont feel guilty towards themselves for quitting this game even if they have 12 lvl 50's.

 

If Cathar is a Cartel Market exclusive than that will be the end for me personally, I will continue on F2P to finish all the class quests and then be done with it. It kinda sucks because Id be leaving my guildmembers etc but nothing is worth that blatant show of power.

Well yes, if all the new stuff goes to the Cartel Shop then it would be bad indeed. And if it was possible to get endgame gear on in the shop I would be really sad. I am also hoping that there will be some way to buy the Cathar through legacy rather than the shop.

I still believe that War Zones and Operations will be free for subscribers, and if that was not to be the case I would be mightily disappointed. I guess it isn't wrong to remind the powers that be of what kind of items are ok for the shop, vain fluff items and the like, and what is not. So far I haven't felt sad about the items, I am actually thinking about getting the lawnmower with lights for my smuggler simply because it would suit her.

I am hoping that it will turn out ok than the Shop won't be used for content for the game such as Operations and War Zones. That those things will be free to subscribers. But I do foresee a steady influx of new gear, weapons(cool looking shells) and packs into the shop simply because it sells. I have a bad habit of wanting to own all the new stuff, so I actually scrambled to get all the new weapons from the previous cartel packs. Thytonian lightsaber and so on. Had to sit down and tell myself that at the current influx of new things it will not be possible for me to have all the shinies. I think this is where we will see the so called money grabbing, because those vainty items sells. I hear new cartel packs being opened on the fleet all the time.

If the shop would get endgame gear, I would get a megaphone and join you but I still think it won't be needed.

The Cartel Market is kinda like Anakin. First everything is all cute and dandy, then he starts messing up a bit but ya know, no harm no foul. Then next thing you know he's killing younglings and Force Choking the missus before ending up half burned. Then he will try to rule the galaxy under the evil Emperor. The question is, is there a Luke to save him from the Dark Side or will we have an alternate universe version where Luke dies or worse, joins the Dark Side

Yep that's pretty much it.

But instead of it taking 2.9 films for him to go mad/bad he's doing it in the first scene of Episode 1.

The problem with the way the Cashshop is going is there'll be nothing left of SWTOR to rescue if there ever comes a time when Bioware EA does indeed turn away from the Dark Side.

Yep that's pretty much it.

 

But instead of it taking 2.9 films for him to go mad/bad he's doing it in the first scene of Episode 1.

 

The problem with the way the Cashshop is going is there'll be nothing left of SWTOR to rescue if there ever comes a time when Bioware EA does indeed turn away from the Dark Side.

I would say right about after he met Jar Jar, he was off to a flying start in the beginning remember?

The game will turn into another MMO rather than THE Star Wars MMO

Well yes, if all the new stuff goes to the Cartel Shop then it would be bad indeed. And if it was possible to get endgame gear on in the shop I would be really sad. I am also hoping that there will be some way to buy the Cathar through legacy rather than the shop.

 

I still believe that War Zones and Operations will be free for subscribers, and if that was not to be the case I would be mightily disappointed. I guess it isn't wrong to remind the powers that be of what kind of items are ok for the shop, vain fluff items and the like, and what is not. So far I haven't felt sad about the items, I am actually thinking about getting the lawnmower with lights for my smuggler simply because it would suit her.

 

I am hoping that it will turn out ok than the Shop won't be used for content for the game such as Operations and War Zones. That those things will be free to subscribers. But I do foresee a steady influx of new gear, weapons(cool looking shells) and packs into the shop simply because it sells. I have a bad habit of wanting to own all the new stuff, so I actually scrambled to get all the new weapons from the previous cartel packs. Thytonian lightsaber and so on. Had to sit down and tell myself that at the current influx of new things it will not be possible for me to have all the shinies. I think this is where we will see the so called money grabbing, because those vainty items sells. I hear new cartel packs being opened on the fleet all the time.

 

If the shop would get endgame gear, I would get a megaphone and join you but I still think it won't be needed.

Im not an inherent doomsayer but like you said, it needs to be pointed out that there's things they can and cannot do.

I still have faith that they'll turn around but my lack of faith is disturbing. (wow I keep thinking of more and more DV analogies)

And Im the same, I have one of each color crystal in my inventory and loads of everything because shiny! Must have! But I buy them off the GTN and not the cartel packs

Vanity items are fine, as long as its only vanity items and not PvE/PvP/Event items

I dont think its needed yet either, but Ill keep a spot free for ya in case it is

I don't know if you are being obtuse on purpose but link for what? something you can find with a click of fingers on official forums,website and third party websites where EA/BW is talking about life day event? or you are saying they never used the term event in regards with life day?

Ya...I know Dulfy put up a list of datamined items. I follow the game quite closely and never heard from EA\Bioware there was to be an event.

I think if there's one thing we can take away from this thread, it's this:

Players like in-game events.

I think it's because in-game events show that the devs still care about the players, and are willing to put in some real time and effort to enhance our experience beyond the regular day to day affairs in the game. Offering cartel market items doesn't do that, especially because they are making us pay real money beyond our subscription. That's sort of the opposite of "showing us they care." While it's too late for BioWare to put a Christmas event together now, I would like to see them put more events into the game in the future.

Some people might say that hosting in-game events is going above and beyond the call of duty. Developers are really only responsible for designing and maintaining the game itself, and aren't obligated to do more than that. To that I would say you're absolutely right, and that's the point. When I look at Rift, for all it's problems, I can honestly say that those devs care about their players. And while I'm not saying that BioWare "doesn't care," I will say that BioWare keeps their fans at arm's length, and I'd like to see that change.

-Macheath.

I don't see an issue.

 

These items are for show and not necessary at all.

 

If you want them pay up, if you can't afford them well then how can you afford $15 a month for a game?

 

It's like someone who doesn't tip a server well. If you can't afford the tip then how can you afford to eat out? oh that's because you can afford the tip you're just cheap and can't admit that to yourself.

How do you twist not tipping a server well into this discussion? It's not an issue of people not being able to afford it. It's an issue of people hoping for a live event based around Life Day, and at least so far only having Life Day themed items on the cartel market. I bought a few of the items, which meant I can obviously afford more cartel coins. But I am still mildly disappointed that they don't have a live event with quests related to the holiday. The quests wouldn't even need to have the same items as the ones in the cartel market, they could be different items or even just credits, exp and codex entries for all I care. But it would be nice to have such a live event I think.

So no, don't pull the "you're too cheap" to use the market card, put that card back into your behind where it belongs.

I think if there's one thing we can take away from this thread, it's this:

 

Players like in-game events.

 

I think it's because in-game events show that the devs still care about the players, and are willing to put in some real time and effort to enhance our experience beyond the regular day to day affairs in the game. Offering cartel market items doesn't do that, especially because they are making us pay real money beyond our subscription. That's sort of the opposite of "showing us they care." While it's too late for BioWare to put a Christmas event together now, I would like to see them put more events into the game in the future.

 

Some people might say that hosting in-game events is going above and beyond the call of duty. Developers are really only responsible for designing and maintaining the game itself, and aren't obligated to do more than that. To that I would say you're absolutely right, and that's the point. When I look at Rift, for all it's problems, I can honestly say that those devs care about their players. And while I'm not saying that BioWare "doesn't care," I will say that BioWare keeps their fans at arm's length, and I'd like to see that change.

 

-Macheath.

Mac, with all do respect brother. I couldn't care less if the Dev's cared about me. As long as the do their job and produce content. As far as what Rift does or doesn't, once I don't care...I don't play RIFT. Bioware said they were not gonna have holiday events in SWTOR. Just because there are a few re-color items reminiscent of an event in SWG does not construed there is/was/should be and event here.

Hi Bioware,

i hope you realize what are you doing. I hope you understand that is not a game like Farmville where you can add cows and cats to make people happy, and i hope this is not your best effort to make the game interesting.

I really, REALLY expected something cool from you, the masterminds of Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Baldur's Gate. But i guess that time is over.

The time of microtransaction has come, and this is what i think really ruins good games. Back to Star Wars Galaxies, i HAPPILY paid a subscription because it was a game so depth and cool that people didn't cared about the countless bugs because they had fun and there were a strong community to make up for it.

Now, not only my 13 € per month are not enough, but you also want more from me, and i happily pay more for a thing that i like...if the money spent is worth it. But sadly, after playing for 1 year, i realized that i'm not having fun anymore, that i play because I HAVE TO, not because I WANT.

So yes, if i don't like it i don't have to play it, is that right? Yes, and i will do just that, cancel my subscription and go on. And the point of my thread is not about my feelings.

The point is that i don't see the passion from you anymore. This is going to be another money sink game. I don't want to say you are spitting on your fanbase the way you are developing this game, but there more than just a few hints about it so, really, i don't know what to think anymore.

Bioware, remember how much you were appreciated by your fans. Just think about it, because you are losing loyal customers every day.

The time of microtransaction has come, and this is what i think really ruins good games.

Its not just in MMOs, its in single player games to now, NBA 2k13 you can buy skill points instead of playing the game lol, in the new Football manager you can buy a bigger stadion for real money etc. etc.

Sad direction for gaming.

I don't post much. Ever, really. But I started playing this game during the beta and have been subbed ever since.

 

The trend of charging your SUBSCRIBERS for content is getting out of hand. The Cartel Packs were a little over the line, imo, but I was initially fine with it. Then the Life Day pack came out and it fully crossed the line. 2000 coins is much more than any subscriber should have to pay to get content for a game they are already paying for.

 

Since when is it ok to paygate stuff from SUBSCRIBERS?

 

You are already getting our money on a monthly basis, why are you nickel and dime-ing us?

Agreed. I pre-ordered the game before launch (just the regular edition), and have had a 6 month recurring sub ever since. I spent about 500 CCs on buying Rocket Boots and all the upgrades (a great deal for the 5 mil it usually costs for a legacy wide perk). Even then, I come up about 1000 CCs short of buying the stuff to celebrate Life Day with. I honestly feel betrayed. I thought they said subscribers wouldn't have to pay to participate in events (and here I assume holidays are events as well).

 

Yes, I've been subbed since launch but I'm seriously pissed now...

It seems that our subscriptions goes into the pocket of developers who work on the cartel cash shop to suck out our money even more.

Nothing is pay gated. Subs have gotten a crapton of free CC and will continue to get free CC as long as they stay subbed (enough to bring the cost of the monthly sub down to less than $10 if I reckon correctly). With my free coinage, I have already bought some stuff from the store and still have enough left over right now to buy the LD pack AND still have left over coinage after that. You have been subbed longer than I have so should have had more coinage. If you no longer have it, it's not BW's fault you blew it when there were leaks months ago that LD stuff would be in the Cartel store in December.

BJ

Since there is so much anger about the actual situation i think its best to make a "Community Sticky" .. means you all subscribe this thread and post actively.. so bEAware will see

this is the HOT TOPIC ...

And maybe then they listen !!!

so please discuss here and subscribe to this thread !!!

link collection below:

If you're unhappy with the Cartel Market stuff, cancel your sub

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=570713

December's Life Day - An Event or only themed Cartel Packs?

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=565517

Jeff Hickman - cartel market "mastermind"

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=570758

Bioware xmas is a time for giving

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=570747

My last effort: I implore you, BioWare - Put the money back into the game!!

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=570668

1.6 Cartel Market has gone a little too far...

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=570329

Has anyone successfully unlocked a Heroic Space Weekly?

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=570779

Pay2Win Space Missions ???

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=569897

Am I the only one?

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=570767

life day items on cartel market insulting.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=569851

Hey Bioware, is that you?

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=570788

"you guys are going to die when you see it"

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=570493

SWG never charged for Life Day gifts

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=570584

Nothing is pay gated. Subs have gotten a crapton of free CC and will continue to get free CC as long as they stay subbed (enough to bring the cost of the monthly sub down to less than $10 if I reckon correctly). With my free coinage, I have already bought some stuff from the store and still have enough left over right now to buy the LD pack AND still have left over coinage after that. You have been subbed longer than I have so should have had more coinage. If you no longer have it, it's not BW's fault you blew it when there were leaks months ago that LD stuff would be in the Cartel store in December.

 

BJ

I disagree many F2P MMORPG give subsrcibers (or the equiverlent) up to their subscription amount (in RL cash) worth of cashshop coins.

And remember they ONLY reason you can buy ONE Life Day pack this year is because you were given up to 2900CC in a lump sum, once that lump sum is gone you have to rely on your monthly income which would take at least 4 months to save up for ONE Life Day Pack.

So what would you say was an unreasonable price per charater?

 

It's between 2400CC and 5500CC obviously.

Sorry for the confusion. The 2400 CC is acceptable to me based on the cost per CC when the 5500 pack of CCs are bought. Which makes about 137.5 CC per dollar, bringing the reduced cost of the pack down to about $17.50 as I recall. That breaks down the individual items to $10 for the Robe set, $5 for the speeder, and $2.50 for the rest. Those are numbers I am comfortable spending for those items. For the other Armor sets in the CM which offer addtional pieces, I think their costs are around $12-$14 or so, which I find acceptable.

The cheapest Life Day item of clothing on my server is a pair of Life Day boot for 440,000 Credits.

 

There are 7 Life Day items of clothing in total, with the most expensive being 700,000 Credits.

Considering the asking price for many other items on the GTN. That sounds pretty reasonable to me for limited time "holiday" items.

BJ

Sorry for the confusion. The 2400 CC is acceptable to me based on the cost per CC when the 5500 pack of CCs are bought. Which makes about 137.5 CC per dollar, bringing the reduced cost of the pack down to about $17.50 as I recall. That breaks down the individual items to $10 for the Robe set, $5 for the speeder, and $2.50 for the rest. Those are numbers I am comfortable spending for those items. For the other Armor sets in the CM which offer addtional pieces, I think their costs are around $12-$14 or so, which I find acceptable.

 

BJ

Ah I see. Yeah for general cosmetic stuff the pricing isn't terrible (as a pack anyway) although it's not cheap either, but for novelty goods I still find it bonkers at over 1 months $ subscription cost per character.

Considering the asking price for many other items on the GTN. That sounds pretty reasonable to me for limited time "holiday" items.

 

BJ

It's cheaper than many Cartel items on my server, but I've never seen them go for anything like 70,000 Credits as mentioned.

So you don't actually understand what pay to win means, do you? Because it doesn't mean that it's ONLY available through monetary means, it means that someone can pay to receive a hefty advancement over others who are playing the game.

No. It just means that there currently is no accepted official definition of the term P2W at this point in time. What it does mean is that everyone will interpret it to suit their own argument. Personally, I view the term based on it's origins to characterize Eastern Market games like ZT On-line:

1) Allowing a player to buy equipment in a cash shop that gives enough of a distinct power creep that he can beat a lesser equipped player, but one who is much more skilled at the game, solely because of the equipment advantage. And the only way for the more skilled player to regain the advantage is to buy said equipment because nothing else available in game via game play is equal or better than the cash shop equipment.

2) Content in game is effectively gated to a specific set of equipment and cannot be accessed or completed successfully without said equipment and that equipment can only be acquired via a cash shop.

So all we have right now is a battle of opinions. I personally do not feel any line has been crossed and that there is a long way to go before that line is even reached. It is your right to feel otherwise, but those who do not agree with you are not wrong - just as you are not to feel the way you do.

BJ

Yeah i'm insulted.

will I buy them?

No

*shrug*

BW is no more.

the people who manege this game now are people in black suits with big bellies full with cash, they have no feelings or love for this game, they care only about money, you dont beleive me? well look at which direction the game is heading to.

Sad Sad Sad, the only image i get when i remember the time when i check the new trailers and class progression videos while EXITED to death and now.

I disagree many F2P MMORPG give subsrcibers (or the equiverlent) up to their subscription amount (in RL cash) worth of cashshop coins.

 

And remember they ONLY reason you can buy ONE Life Day pack this year is because you were given up to 2900CC in a lump sum, once that lump sum is gone you have to rely on your monthly income which would take at least 4 months to save up for ONE Life Day Pack.

Which is fine for those games. Would it be great if BW does that here? Of course, but I'm not crying over it. Whether we get the free coins or not has no bearing on my staying subbed to the game. Getting one Life Day pack is acceptable to me - based on my reasonings in the previous post. Again, I still get free coins - maybe not as much as other games, but I am not playing those games, I am paying and playing SWTOR. What I get here is not yet unreasonable to me, and I can get everything I want over time without having to pay one dime more than my monthly sub - either via the free coins or via the GTN. So yes, I will call to task those who think this is forcing subs to pay more money because in truth it is not.

Ah I see. Yeah for general cosmetic stuff the pricing isn't terrible (as a pack anyway) although it's not cheap either, but for novelty goods I still find it bonkers at over 1 months $ subscription cost per character.

This whole game is a novelty. It is a form of enterainment where we are playing (and paying) for pixels on a screen. The fact that a holiday pack is $17.50 is not much of an issue for me when I have spent thousands of dollars over the last 30 years for what amounts to pretty much the same thing.

BJ

You all are being ridiculous.

This wasn't just "cats and cows". This was a patch that included a new warzone and new tier of PvP gear.

We also recently got 3-4 hours of content in the HK line. Before that we got a new operation and new tier of PvE content.

I mean seriously-- just because there is a lawnmower with Christmas lights on the cartel shop doesn't mean that's *all* there is.