Hi Chris (and community team, can you please forward this and make sure Chris gets it)

*** EDIT : I made some edits and might make more as discussions continue. Please note these ideas are not all my own, but considerations on how to tweak or compromise a system to suit a large spectrum of players ***

The latest pvp changes with the lockout and and change to how missions are completed needs tweaking because it’s having unforeseen side affects (which I think are working against what you intended) and are negativity affecting pvp.

(And giving some nasty people the tools to troll other players)

Lockout Timer

The 15 mins time is a bit too long. I understand the reason for the timer, but it’s affecting the rest of the queue when it reverts to a low pop scenario like 4v4. Which means it’s probably affecting the normal time queue too, but less noticeably. I can’t be sure, but maybe more arena starts popping (I’m sure you can check your metrics for that).

When it reverts to a low pop scenario, 15min lock out means we are getting longer and long pop times, especially in lowbie pvp because that’s essentially taking players out of the queue for 3 matches or more (if they decide to wait it out).

It’s also causing lopsided teams being made. Ie, 3v4 matches are much more common and are nearly always a loss.

Which brings me to my next point.

Winning to complete missions

While I understand the change is supposed to make people try and win instead of death match, it’s actually having a negative affect on player moral because they are unable to complete their missions.

This is especially true in low pop situations when you have the follow situations :

• Match making puts all one class on one team
  
• Match making allocation isn’t balanced
  
• Full premade vs pug
  
• Unbalanced team numbers, ie 3v4 matches.

These situations are not the fault of the players on the losing team. It’s the fault of the system and the players can’t do anything about it if they get one match after another where they lose because of these conditions. So they start feeling like there is no point in pvping because they can’t even complete their daily, weekly or conquest achievements.

(I literally played an hour of Low pop time arena’s last night with no wins because the system kept putting me on team with 3 people vs 4 man teams (which were mostly the same premade).

Both these changes has led some bad apples to use the situations to troll other players. Ie, said premade above was an all stealth team. They would kill two of us and then stealth out till the acid and wait to kill the last person. Then they would purposely lose the second round. In the third round they would do what they did in the first and kill two of us and stealth out again till the acid. Now I need to state we did start this with a 4 man pug originally, but after they did this in the first match, the fourth person quit in disgust and we had 3 players for the rest of the hour.

Under the old system, we would have left those matches to deprive those people the opportunity to troll us. But with the lock out timer in place, we had to stay or just stop queuing. Which is what some of us did because the pop times got longer and longer between each match.

What really grinds my gears is we don’t even get any reward towards completing our daily, weekly or conquests.

Under the old system you had setup so that a win = 2 points and a loss =1 point. If we still had this system, we would have been getting something for putting up with those bully trolls. But under the current system, we are penalised for leaving and we get nothing for staying. This system rewards the trolls and drives innocent players from the queue. Which slows down pops and makes people never want to pvp again.

Now I do understand the reason was to make winning count more than losing and it’s the right goal to strive for. But this “win” only reward system isn’t the way to do it,

Suggestions for tweaking the system

1. Change the lock out timer to 10mins during high volume queue times. This means the rest of the queue is less disrupted because people are not out of the queue for 15mins

2. Change the lock out timer to 5mins during low volume queue times (when it reverts to arena pops). There are already low numbers in the queue. The last thing we need is less people in the queue.

3. Revert the mission completion back to a points system. But change it so that a win = 3 points and a loss = 1 point. That means you still have to try harder to win matches or it’s an extended grind. But at least you get something for your effort.

Edit 3a. With bringing back the points system

Weekly = 30 points

Daily = 15 points

4. Reduce the size of premades in regs to two person. This is a compromise and still lets people play with friends and means you don’t need to make a seperate queue for premades (which we know is something you don’t want to do). It will also make it easier for the “matchmaking” system to work. And if there are 4 players in the queue in premades, it will put 1 premade on each team.

Edit *** notes on premades *** Alternative to keeping premades is making sure they only pop against others premades like they are supposed to. Currently the system pops first in and first out and if there are two premades in the selection queue they will put them on either team. But it doesn’t take into account how many premades are currently playing. So you can essentially have every game with one premades vs pugs if those premades aren’t waiting in the queue together.

4a. Solution to premades queuing is for the system to look at how many premades currently playing. How many are in the queue and how long till the matches end that have premades in them. Then working the queue system to slow or speed up pops depending on when those premade can be put in teams opposite each other. Under some circumstance, a premade might jump ahead in the queue if another premade has been waiting a while for a match. And in other circumstances, a premade might have to wait for another premade to finish a match.

5. Fix the system so it doesn’t make 3v4 matches. If the queue pops a 3v4 because someone declines, the match should not start. It should just put everyone back in the queue and make 3v3.

6. If a match starts with 2v2 or 3v3, then the back fills need to be locked once the match starts. There should be no back fills between rounds. There are many matches that start 3v3 and you win a round and then the second round the other team get a 4th person and it’s 3v4 and you lose the match because of it,

7. Fix the matchmaking in regs. I’m not sure what your system is for matchmaking, but it doesn’t work and hasn’t since it was implemented. If you can’t reliably make it work and openly tell us how it works, then remove the skill matchmaking and replace it with class matchmaking. Ie, keep it so that it limits how many healers and tanks are on each side. You could also tweak it more so that it evenly splits classes and class types across the teams or just remove it altogether and keep the healer/tank aspect in place.

8. We need map choice if you are going to have a lock out timer. I know you have said you are looking at this, but you should remove the lockout timers until you have that implemented. At the moment, you are just aggravating your player base because they get put into maps they don’t like.

9. The lockout timer needs to be able to tell if a player disconnects because of network problems or the server bugs out so that it doesn’t apply a deserter timer for no fault of their own. Other games that have deserter timers like World of Warcraft can tell the difference if you DC or leave on purpose.

10. Vote to kick should not apply a lockout timer. If you are going to keep vote to kick in the game, you need to stop it being exploited by people who use it to troll others.

Some suggestions on how to encourage playing to win and less death matching

1. Hide personal damage, kills, healing, tanking, deaths and damage taken stats from the rest of the team in objective pvp matches (8v8). These personal stats should still be visible to you, but only your own. Change them so only the player can see their own stats and not other people’s.

This would take away a reason to death match because people wouldn’t be able to epeen stats on the scoreboard

2. Keep the objective points and medals visible on the scoreboard at the end for objective pvp so that players can see what contribution their team mates make. These are what should matter the most in objective pvp and would encourage better team work.

3. Revamp the medal and objective points system so that each map type has its own unique ones to encourage better game play. You could keep a bunch of generic ones across the board and cull some others. Then add specific types of ones for each map type (I recognise this might take a bit of work, so I understand if it’s not possible. But if you can, it adds another possibility to rewards).

3a. A revamped medal system could add a system of extra rewards based on how many medals you receive. So even someone on the losing team who played well, might get more rewards than someone on the winning team who didn’t try.

4. Add better rewards for winning matches. The current ones still aren’t enough. Maybe add some extra things like reputation tokens, companion gifts and more tech frags (even for Lowbies).

Suggestion for giving people choice when queuing

Other games like World of Warcraft that give people choice have a mechanism to keep queues popping on the least popular maps. These same sort of mechanisms could be used here too.

Have two queues.

• One queue allows players to choose what maps they want to play (maybe they can deselect 3-4 they don’t want to play)
  
• The second queue is totally random (like we have now)
  
• Both are still linked and matches are made from taking players from both queues
  
• Add extra daily and weekly missions and unique rewards to queue up random. Make this the more enticing way to queue
  
• Arena should not be part of the choice selection during low queue times it should revert both queues to arena like it already does.
  

This gives players a choice of how they want to play without it negatively affecting queue times or locking out people from playing less popular maps,

Thank you for reading.

The one thing for me to take away is that they need to add map selections next.

Why not, I'd play only Voidstar as this is the most balanced map for PVP in this state.

Hi Chris /snip

 

Thank you for reading.

Great post, thank you. +1 Support

The one thing for me to take away is that they need to add map selections next.

I think this was mentioned in the live thingy (or so it's been said in posts here), so fingers crossed

Why not, I'd play only Voidstar as this is the most balanced map for PVP in this state.

And others would pick and choose too. Hopefully it won't affect queue times too much

Why not, I'd play only Voidstar as this is the most balanced map for PVP in this state.

lol probably same here tbh.

From the theory crafter's discord:

BioChris 8/12/20 at 3:38 PM EST:

No need to speculate about map selection [for regs]- we're adding it... Don't know yet [how we are going to implement it] - still working on the design... I think I said map or mode selection in the post. Again, still in design iteration.

https://discord.com/channels/613633744246407178/715836713037070406/743191731629064284

https://discord.com/channels/613633744246407178/715836713037070406/743192396631769308

https://discord.com/channels/613633744246407178/715836713037070406/743192630258827275

From the theory crafter's discord:

 

 

 

https://discord.com/channels/613633744246407178/715836713037070406/743191731629064284

 

https://discord.com/channels/613633744246407178/715836713037070406/743192396631769308

 

https://discord.com/channels/613633744246407178/715836713037070406/743192630258827275

Thanks for sharing that. ^

Increase the rewards for winning pretty significantly and I’ll be content. If you are trying to create a system that rewards winning, then go ahead and actually DO it. Current rewards make me feel like warzones are a waste of time. Farming flashpoints is around 2-3x better (with a win plus daily) or up to 20x better (loss). A stealth class on a SM FP can do over 200 tech frags in under 10 minutes. Compare with 10 frags for a 15 minute WZ loss.

Killing the first boss in a SM flashpoint gives 20 tech frags plus loot. That’s twice as much as a WZ loss (10 frags), in much less time.

The fastest way to gear for pvp should not be to NOT pvp.

EDIT: Just for giggles, let’s do the math on how long it would take to gear for 6 piece SB plus tactical. At 3k frags apiece, that would be 21k frags. Assuming 10 frags per loss, 100 per win (25 plus 75 for daily), ignoring weekly for now.

So:

21k / 10 = 2100 WZ losses x 15 minutes = 31500 minutes = 525 hours

21k / 100 = 210 WZ wins x 15 minutes = 3150 minutes = 52.5 hours

Now let’s use my 200 frags in under 10 minutes per SM FP:

21k / 200 = 105 FP x 10 minutes = 1050 minutes = 17.5 hours

So running SM FP is, assuming you win every WZ plus get the daily, ignoring the weekly...3 times faster for gearing for pvp. A 50% win rate would put it at around 95 hours, or around 5.5 times slower than SM FP.

trixxie suggestion 4 won't work since people will then try to sync queue so they end up on the same team as their other guild mate premades

people have done this in the past,...

sync queuing is also been done in other games, it's all to combat/by-pass any premade restriction

Hi Chris (and community team, can you please forward this and make sure Chris gets it)

 

...snip

 

Thank you for reading.

You're fast becoming my favorite poster. I love these suggestions.

4. Reduce the size of premades in regs to two person. This is a compromise and still lets people play with friends and means you don’t need to make a seperate queue for premades (which we know isn’t something don’t want to do). It will also make it easier for the “matchmaking” system to work. And if there are 4 players in the queue in premades, it will put 1 premade on each team.

In my eyes you are one of the most valued contributor to the PVPer community, but your hate for premades nullifies your reputation and this suggestion makes you look dumb (which of course you are not) and extremely shortsighted.

It is ridiculous that people won't bother forming a guild (or a group inside a PVE guild) to play regs at a given time on a regular basis. Instead, you relentlessly try to force the developer to eliminate the fundamental aspect of an MMO (be part of a community) and hinder players teaming up with their friends or guildies they can rely on. It may come as a surprise, but while (or instead of) waiting in the queue, we talk about different topics and have fun, because this is how we imagine quality time spent together.

You mistake premades for number farmers, because you probably have not encountered objective-orientated PVP guilds. My guild is made up of good, but not outstanding players of all classes. We make random groups, do not really care about team composition in any aspect. We don't have augments or min/maxed gear either. We know our classes, how to counter other classes and what needs to be done in a warzone to win. We don't have voice chat, we use ops chat as everyone else to call for help or to adjust tactics. We never global anyone, we do not run from turret to turret as a horde. We split, cover nodes, take side turrets at start and defend. We rarely end up on top in terms of DPS, but always top objective medals. Winning (achieving the objectives) gives the fight a meaning, squasing pugs does not satisfy or appeal to us at all.

As you can see, there is nothing special about us, our skills do not exceed that of an average player should have.

How is it our fault that pugs can not live up to these minimal standards? You wish to punish us by not letting queue together, instead you would force us into random groups made of clueless and/or ignorant players, because you would find it "fair". You also claim premades would stop queueing if they faced another premade every time. You are all so wrong. Number farmers would get what they want anyway. Number farmers Vs Objective players would both achieve their goals in the same warzone. Objective Vs Objective premade are thrilled to defeat the other guild since it boost their reputation. There is no sweeter victory than the latter, trust me. We sometimes find ourselves against each other when running two groups simultaneously - the best way to improve ourselves.

To sum it up, your suggestion is totally irrational and approaching the matter from an inappropriate angle. You simply wish to eliminate a symptom (premades perform better) instead of solving the problem (matchmaking). Premades are not the problem, player skill levels and mentality are. Good random players can defeat any premade. I support all your suggestions in the tread but this quoted one. The real solution would be to rework/introduce elo to reg and distribute players evenly, reward winning properly and eliminate all incentives to play in a different manner. Restricting group size to two is irreconcilable with an MMO.

In my eyes you are one of the most valued contributor to the PVPer community, but your hate for premades nullifies your reputation and this suggestion makes you look dumb (which of course you are not) and extremely shortsighted.

 

It is ridiculous that people won't bother forming a guild (or a group inside a PVE guild) to play regs at a given time on a regular basis. Instead, you relentlessly try to force the developer to eliminate the fundamental aspect of an MMO (be part of a community) and hinder players teaming up with their friends or guildies they can rely on. It may come as a surprise, but while (or instead of) waiting in the queue, we talk about different topics and have fun, because this is how we imagine quality time spent together.

 

You mistake premades for number farmers, because you probably have not encountered objective-orientated PVP guilds. My guild is made up of good, but not outstanding players of all classes. We make random groups, do not really care about team composition in any aspect. We don't have augments or min/maxed gear either. We know our classes, how to counter other classes and what needs to be done in a warzone to win. We don't have voice chat, we use ops chat as everyone else to call for help or to adjust tactics. We never global anyone, we do not run from turret to turret as a horde. We split, cover nodes, take side turrets at start and defend. We rarely end up on top in terms of DPS, but always top objective medals.

 

As you can see, there is nothing special about us, our skills do not exceed that of an average player should have.

How is it our fault that pugs can not live up to these minimal standards? You wish to punish us by not letting queue together, instead you would force us into random groups made of clueless and/or ignorant players, because you would find it "fair". You also claim premades would stop queueing if they faced another premade every time. You are all so wrong. Number farmers would get what they want anyway. Number farmers Vs Objective players would both achieve their goals in the same warzone. Objective Vs Objective premade are thrilled to defeat the other guild since it boost their reputation. There is no sweeter victory than the latter, trust me. We sometimes find ourselves against each other when running two groups simultaneously - the best way to improve ourselves.

 

To sum it up, your suggestion is totally irrational and approaching the matter from an inappropriate angle. You simply wish to eliminate a symptom (premades perform better) instead of solving the problem (matchmaking). Premades are not the problem, player skill levels and mentality are. Good random players can defeat any premade. I support all your suggestions in the tread but this quoted one. The real solution would be to rework/introduce elo to reg and distribute players evenly, reward winning properly and eliminate all incentives to play in a different manner. Restricting group size to two is irreconcilable with an MMO.

There's already limitations to how many can create a "premade." What is the big deal just tweaking this number?

I am just trying to understand how it is such an affront to you if they made it so people only could create 2-man premade groups?

This would still give you some choice but would not allow for one premade to basically command half of a team in the WZ, potentially giving 50% of a team voice and/or better coordination with 4-man premades.

Another scenario is when both groups end up with premades, well now you potentially have an entire team with coordinated attacks and defenses possibly even using voice to give an even more superior advantage over what could also be a 100% PUG group of players.

I can see people's point about why premades of 4-man groups is too much for a WZ that only carries 8 players per team.

I thought it was unnecessary to try to indicate someone is dumb because they don't like others having massive advantages over them in PVP, which is what a premade has over PUGs, that's just the truth of it whether you like premades or hate them.

The true debate boils down to is it worth making a group of 4 happy over making potentially 12 others unhappy? I don't know.

9. The lockout timer needs to be able to tell if a player disconnects because of network problems or the server bugs out so that it doesn’t apply a deserter timer for no fault of their own. Other games that have deserter timers like World of Warcraft can tell the difference if you DC or leave on purpose.

No, World of Warcraft can't tell the difference. That's impossible for any game to determine. Historically, people have unplugged their Ethernet cable or turned off their cable modem to fake a disconnect. Unless you're claiming that MMOs are sentient and psychic, no game will ever be able to make this determination about an external condition.

As far as the rest of the suggestions, it will take time for player behavior to change. Time for the other PvP change to get implemented. Let the existing changes simmer on the stove, as it were.

cause its a MMO and not a single-player game, trying to restrict players from playing with their friends? Chris was right about the forum feedback lol

Okay, no change to premade group size, but premades can only be matched with other premades or against a group of equal size so as to prevent a premade group of four friends from dominating against the two or three other people in the queue as was identified as happening to Trixxie. It is almost like you do not even pay attention to what people are angry about and just dismiss them out of hand because you have an issue with them. It is a good thing that Chris does not do that.

It is almost like you do not even pay attention to what people are angry about and just dismiss them out of hand because you have an issue with them.

People have been complaining since the beginning of the game. This is an MMO. Make some friends and make your own premade.

People have been complaining since the beginning of the game. This is an MMO. Make some friends and make your own premade.

I do not PVP. I have no use for it. I would be just fine if PVP was completely removed from the game. But other people like to PVP, and when they describe situations such as being put into 3v4 matches, and sometimes in 2v4 matches, with the exact same people, against the exact same group, repeatedly, it is easy to see that the current situation has some problems and needs to be addressed. Even by someone who thinks that PVP is a complete waste of resources.

But no, let us just keep things the same. Can not change anything because then people can not take advantage of those situations. You would not happen to be benefiting from situations like that, would you? No, I am quite certain that you would do the honorable thing and not engage in such a one-sided match. But there are those who are not so scrupulous, who will take advantage of such situations. So what happens when the total sum of the PVP queue consists of those four friends in a premade, and three other smucks, and they decide they have had enough of losing match after match after match and stop queueing. Well, I guess those four friends will just have to decide not to play together, break up their little group, and go 2v2 against each other. That certainly won't lead to some win trading.

In my eyes you are one of the most valued contributor to the PVPer community, but your hate for premades nullifies your reputation and this suggestion makes you look dumb (which of course you are not) and extremely shortsighted.

 

It is ridiculous that people won't bother forming a guild (or a group inside a PVE guild) to play regs at a given time on a regular basis. Instead, you relentlessly try to force the developer to eliminate the fundamental aspect of an MMO (be part of a community) and hinder players teaming up with their friends or guildies they can rely on. It may come as a surprise, but while (or instead of) waiting in the queue, we talk about different topics and have fun, because this is how we imagine quality time spent together.

 

You mistake premades for number farmers, because you probably have not encountered objective-orientated PVP guilds. My guild is made up of good, but not outstanding players of all classes. We make random groups, do not really care about team composition in any aspect. We don't have augments or min/maxed gear either. We know our classes, how to counter other classes and what needs to be done in a warzone to win. We don't have voice chat, we use ops chat as everyone else to call for help or to adjust tactics. We never global anyone, we do not run from turret to turret as a horde. We split, cover nodes, take side turrets at start and defend. We rarely end up on top in terms of DPS, but always top objective medals. Winning (achieving the objectives) gives the fight a meaning, squasing pugs does not satisfy or appeal to us at all.

 

As you can see, there is nothing special about us, our skills do not exceed that of an average player should have.

How is it our fault that pugs can not live up to these minimal standards? You wish to punish us by not letting queue together, instead you would force us into random groups made of clueless and/or ignorant players, because you would find it "fair". You also claim premades would stop queueing if they faced another premade every time. You are all so wrong. Number farmers would get what they want anyway. Number farmers Vs Objective players would both achieve their goals in the same warzone. Objective Vs Objective premade are thrilled to defeat the other guild since it boost their reputation. There is no sweeter victory than the latter, trust me. We sometimes find ourselves against each other when running two groups simultaneously - the best way to improve ourselves.

 

To sum it up, your suggestion is totally irrational and approaching the matter from an inappropriate angle. You simply wish to eliminate a symptom (premades perform better) instead of solving the problem (matchmaking). Premades are not the problem, player skill levels and mentality are. Good random players can defeat any premade. I support all your suggestions in the tread but this quoted one. The real solution would be to rework/introduce elo to reg and distribute players evenly, reward winning properly and eliminate all incentives to play in a different manner. Restricting group size to two is irreconcilable with an MMO.

I don’t hate premades

Okay, no change to premade group size, but premades can only be matched with other premades or against a group of equal size so as to prevent a premade group of four friends from dominating against the two or three other people in the queue as was identified as happening to Trixxie. It is almost like you do not even pay attention to what people are angry about and just dismiss them out of hand because you have an issue with them. It is a good thing that Chris does not do that.

WZs are mostly filled with players who have no idea what they're doing in regards to objectives and strategies to fulfill those objectives.

Good players get frustrated with this and they decided, hey lets group up and function as a 3-4 person team and maybe we can change the tide of our losing WZs. ( Thats Warzones for all of you World of Warcraft players out there). and before you know it, healers are getting marked and focused down, node guards are getting pulled off their node while someone caps on them or they're getting sap capped etc etc etc...

So essentially you're getting upset because a group of 3-4 players have figured out how to play the game smarter than you and now they're completing their dailies/weeklies in a timely manner.

So yeah great idea, lets punish those players that have figured out the basic fundamentals of team work in an MMO so other players don't get their feelings hurt, that seems totally fair.

But no, let us just keep things the same.

One problem on the forums I always found was not so much presenting ideas to talk about, but just the overwhelming negative response any recommendation that is made is met with.

People will have the same complaint as you do, yet, for some interesting reason instead of adding to or explaining why your idea isn't a good one they just poo-poo it without any reasonable explanation.

For instance, in some minds, saying, "it's a MMO make friends and then make premades" somehow suffices for a good solution to a clear problem.

Well, fact is many games, in fact it seems every other game but SWTOR has some sort of mechanism in place so premades can't happen in PVP.

I guess only SWTOR is the MMO of players with friends, because other games people don't seem to have this need to form 4 man groups of "friends" to compete against completely random PUGs. I mean, it requires "friends" to create a premade, and all! ***totally sarcastic btw in case some readers struggle with sarcasm***

I'd be perfectly fine if they removed all premades in fact the amount of tears these players who need premades so badly in the game need would be worth seeing premades removed and this coming from someone that doesn't even mind premades and has been in premades.

I wouldn't be surprised if BW revisits this tbh, only because it seems they are taking a no-nonsense direct line charge at bad behavior gameplay by shady players now.

This change of removing premades would only improve the quality of the matches though, that's the truth of it. More I think about it the more I support it.

Seeing how popular premade grouping is on SWTOR, why can they not have a premade only queue for regs then? That way we can just separate the two types of players and put them up against like-minded players. Have a totally 100% random solo queue for regs, and then a premade queue for those that group up.

It is almost like you do not even pay attention to what people are angry about and just dismiss them out of hand because you have an issue with them.

I do not PVP. I have no use for it.

Before accusing others of being ignorant, you should educate yourself. You'd quickly discover that this...

But other people like to PVP, and when they describe situations such as being put into 3v4 matches, and sometimes in 2v4 matches

is not a problem with premades but rather with matchmaking and is rather rare. And this...

That certainly won't lead to some win trading.

Is not a problem at all. Lol. Wintrading in regs.

Okay, no change to premade group size, but premades can only be matched with other premades or against a group of equal size so as to prevent a premade group of four friends from dominating against the two or three other people in the queue as was identified as happening to Trixxie. It is almost like you do not even pay attention to what people are angry about and just dismiss them out of hand because you have an issue with them. It is a good thing that Chris does not do that.

I struggle to take suggestions that either wants to restrict players the ability to play with their friends or reduce the number of communication channels that the devs use seriously, its a MMO after all and suggestions have to be realistic. Sadly I think that a lot of the regular posters have dug such deep trenches they are finding it hard to look up anymore and see the changing landscape.

Chris has explained that the premade mechanic you are describing above is already the case, it's just after a while if there is no other 4man premade in the queue the system will place them vs two 2x teams. Based on his own comments, Chris looks at the suggestions for pvp that deals with the root causes and main issues, not with the symptoms like threads like this seem to focus on.

I do not PVP. I have no use for it. I would be just fine if PVP was completely removed from the game. But other people like to PVP, and when they describe situations such as being put into 3v4 matches, and sometimes in 2v4 matches, with the exact same people, against the exact same group, repeatedly, it is easy to see that the current situation has some problems and needs to be addressed. Even by someone who thinks that PVP is a complete waste of resources.

 

But no, let us just keep things the same. Can not change anything because then people can not take advantage of those situations. You would not happen to be benefiting from situations like that, would you? No, I am quite certain that you would do the honorable thing and not engage in such a one-sided match. But there are those who are not so scrupulous, who will take advantage of such situations. So what happens when the total sum of the PVP queue consists of those four friends in a premade, and three other smucks, and they decide they have had enough of losing match after match after match and stop queueing. Well, I guess those four friends will just have to decide not to play together, break up their little group, and go 2v2 against each other. That certainly won't lead to some win trading.

People wintrading in regs in 2v2 games?? Now your lack of understand and unrealistic suggestions are starting to make sense, you don't pvp or understand the system, time for me to not feed the anymore

Well, fact is many games, in fact it seems every other game but SWTOR has some sort of mechanism in place so premades can't happen in PVP.

Damn near every pvp game I have played does not do anything of the sort. Their matchmaking will attempt to pit group vs group and then open up group vs pug, but most will not strictly make a group only queue unless its some kind of ranked system.

Guess what? SWTOR does exactly that. I rarely run into premades during prime time when I solo queue. The minute someone invites me to a group, even a 2 man group I'm running into premades left and right. Trixxie has the opposite problem, but only because she plays early in the morning. Unfortunately for people in the SEA region they are stuck with NA servers and are gonna be playing when the servers are at low pop, not during prime time.

Her scenario doesn't justify banning groups from regs.

Premades are fine, the lockout timer is fine, and the new daily is fine.

"IF" they add map selection I hope they remove bonus rewards from deselecting maps like they do in FP's.

Hi Chris (and community team, can you please forward this and make sure Chris gets it)

Excellent post!

I am just through replying in another thread that I have recently returned to the game and already given up on PVP in its current state.

If these suggestions were implemented it would at the least get me back to give it another chance.