So, I am getting close to the point again, where I habe to decide wether I want to kill or recruit him. But with my Trooper it's actually a really hard choice. The warrior I brought through before was easy: he's the calculating guy, who does everything bringing him closer to being emperor, solution: let Arcann help you. But my trooper... he is mostly light sided, even though he got a bit less soft since he was frozen for 5 years and he does always everything possible to save his crew or civilians. So he probably really wants to kill Arcann, coz he basically slaughtered a ton of civilians. But I heard killing Arcann makes your character seem really brutal and heartless which is not the case, I just want to bring him to justice.

Your opinion?

So, I am getting close to the point again, where I habe to decide wether I want to kill or recruit him. But with my Trooper it's actually a really hard choice. The warrior I brought through before was easy: he's the calculating guy, who does everything bringing him closer to being emperor, solution: let Arcann help you. But my trooper... he is mostly light sided, even though he got a bit less soft since he was frozen for 5 years and he does always everything possible to save his crew or civilians. So he probably really wants to kill Arcann, coz he basically slaughtered a ton of civilians. But I heard killing Arcann makes your character seem really brutal and heartless which is not the case, I just want to bring him to justice.

 

Your opinion?

There's actually a light and a dark version for killing him. In the dark, you basically come off as another tyrannical dictator; aka Arcann. In the light version you come off as doing it for the sake of justice for everything that Arcann's done. In both cases you kill him, but the light version comes off as less vengeful and petty.

Light version: Start at 1:25

As someone, who recently took a LS no-nonsense Trooper through KOTET:

Finish him!

There are 2 speeches you can give before killing him, the LS one is about justice and all that.

But I heard killing Arcann makes your character seem really brutal and heartless which is not the case, I just want to bring him to justice. Your opinion?

The decision you can make is whether to fight Senya or allow her to heal Arcann. This decides the fate of both of them.

Seems rather brutal and heartless to murder a mother because she doesn't want you to bring her son to "justice".

A redeemed Arcann could still be brought to trial, you know, in a court with judges and stuff.

Also, this is the universe where a child murderer can redeem himself by throwing a frail old man over a railing.

Also, this is the universe where a child murderer can redeem himself by throwing a frail old man over a railing.

Palpatine is less frail than most people who work in a cubicle 9-5 and then go watch tv or play CoD.

So, I am getting close to the point again, where I habe to decide wether I want to kill or recruit him. But with my Trooper it's actually a really hard choice. The warrior I brought through before was easy: he's the calculating guy, who does everything bringing him closer to being emperor, solution: let Arcann help you. But my trooper... he is mostly light sided, even though he got a bit less soft since he was frozen for 5 years and he does always everything possible to save his crew or civilians. So he probably really wants to kill Arcann, coz he basically slaughtered a ton of civilians. But I heard killing Arcann makes your character seem really brutal and heartless which is not the case, I just want to bring him to justice.

 

Your opinion?

If you have a character that wants to bring him to justice, then kill him. There is (eventually) dialogue that should work for that kind of character. The first dialogue might seem a little on the heartless side, but if you can get past it, you should be fine. You can even sort of take it back immediately afterward.

But you should be aware that you won't be able to save Senya.

I understand this thread is over 1 year old but I wanted to share my 2 cents: I'm Jedi Shadow and I too had a hard time deciding and ultimately went with recruiting him. I felt sorry for him, okay, not the Jedi way but I did. I justified my decision by deciding he was blinded by his hate and that his pop trained him to be that way. I don't think he had a choice. And his sister was as mad as a hatter, though pop also trained her to be that way. And pop also succumbed to that negative force. The kids wanted to please the pop so their choices were made for them. So anyway, that was how i did that.

Maybe when I run the story again on another character I'll strike him down,

If you're roleplaying an exemplary Jedi, keeping Arcann alive is the most accurate representation of pacifistic Jedi mindset and makes complete sense to attempt saving him even after everything. If you remember from JK storyline, the Jedi Council wanted you to attempt to save and heal even Vitiate, the Emperor.

But Jedi mindset is a very nice thing, and I would assume anyone who isnt a Jedi -or anyone who isnt blinded by potential of love- would be incredibly angry and revenge hungry at Arcann for invading their home, killing their allies, losing 5 years of their life in carbonite, multiple attempts on ending your life and general spread of fear, destruction and subjugation of everyone left and right.

The morality system is very black and white with Arcann, making it look like you're a bad guy if you dont spare him. But in reality, if you kill Arcann you still wont be anywhere near as bad as Arcann.

If you're roleplaying an exemplary Jedi, keeping Arcann alive is the most accurate representation of pacifistic Jedi mindset and makes complete sense to attempt saving him even after everything. If you remember from JK storyline, the Jedi Council wanted you to attempt to save and heal even Vitiate, the Emperor.

 

But Jedi mindset is a very nice thing, and I would assume anyone who isnt a Jedi -or anyone who isnt blinded by potential of love- would be incredibly angry and revenge hungry at Arcann for invading their home, killing their allies, losing 5 years of their life in carbonite, multiple attempts on ending your life and general spread of fear, destruction and subjugation of everyone left and right.

 

The morality system is very black and white with Arcann, making it look like you're a bad guy if you dont spare him. But in reality, if you kill Arcann you still wont be anywhere near as bad as Arcann.

The trouble here, of course, is that to kill Arcann, you also have to kill Senya, and that strikes me as outright murder.

The trouble here, of course, is that to kill Arcann, you also have to kill Senya, and that strikes me as outright murder.

In that scene you do not attack Senya. She attacks YOU and openly says she intends to kill you, and it then becomes self-defense. She's also trying to save a mass murderer from any consequences from his actions.

As mentioned Senya is not an innocent bystander. She very casually says she was involved in Arcann's invasions of other planets (in the beginning of the Mandalorian chapter), she tosses you into a wall, she chokes the defenseless guy on Zakuul and will not stop even if you ask her to, and she hunted Koth because he would not follow the order he had been given to kill civilians. I know the tendency is to depict her as some sweet little mom but she's just as brutal as anyone else.

In that scene you do not attack Senya. She attacks YOU and openly says she intends to kill you, and it then becomes self-defense. She's also trying to save a mass murderer from any consequences from his actions.

 

As mentioned Senya is not an innocent bystander. She very casually says she was involved in Arcann's invasions of other planets (in the beginning of the Mandalorian chapter), she tosses you into a wall, she chokes the defenseless guy on Zakuul and will not stop even if you ask her to, and she hunted Koth because he would not follow the order he had been given to kill civilians. I know the tendency is to depict her as some sweet little mom but she's just as brutal as anyone else.

Because you're trying to kill the person she's already protecting... this strikes me as hairsplitting.

It also strikes me as wasteful. If nothing else, you don't need more enemies... and Arcann, while he's powerful in the Force, is also a thug who's shown no real tactical or strategic acumen, much less the kind that would make him an actual threat with no allies or support. I don't see the threat as urgent enough to necessitate killing one of your own allies.

Because you're trying to kill the person she's already protecting... this strikes me as hairsplitting.

 

It also strikes me as wasteful. If nothing else, you don't need more enemies... and Arcann, while he's powerful in the Force, is also a thug who's shown no real tactical or strategic acumen, much less the kind that would make him an actual threat with no allies or support. I don't see the threat as urgent enough to necessitate killing one of your own allies.

*shrug* you're welcome to interpret it however you choose. But the person she's protecting is a war criminal. She's decided to aid and abet someone who has murdered, enslaved and subjugated millions across the galaxy. I'm far more concerned with those murders. If she chooses to be on the side of a mass murdering war criminal, and actively tries to stop the Alliance from bringing him to justice, there are consequences.

There's also the point that if you don't kill them, Arcann faces no justice whatsoever, and that isn't fair to any of the millions he harmed. The woman in the Nathema flashpoint who is angry that Arcann murdered millions on her world, and is now the Commander's associate with no punishment at all, is spot on. If there were an option to throw Senya ad Arcann in jail forever, one might choose that, but there's no way I would ever let either of them off the hook for what they did. I don't want either of them as an ally.

And if you keep them alive you have no choice but to bring them in KOTET 8 and 9, and no thank you.

*shrug* you're welcome to interpret it however you choose. But the person she's protecting is a war criminal. She's decided to aid and abet someone who has murdered, enslaved and subjugated millions across the galaxy. I'm far more concerned with those murders. If she chooses to be on the side of a mass murdering war criminal, and actively tries to stop the Alliance from bringing him to justice, there are consequences.

 

There's also the point that if you don't kill them, Arcann faces no justice whatsoever, and that isn't fair to any of the millions he harmed. The woman in the Nathema flashpoint who is angry that Arcann murdered millions on her world, and is now the Commander's associate with no punishment at all, is spot on. If there were an option to throw Senya ad Arcann in jail forever, one might choose that, but there's no way I would ever let either of them off the hook for what they did. I don't want either of them as an ally.

 

And if you keep them alive you have no choice but to bring them in KOTET 8 and 9, and no thank you.

The Voss ritual is able to suck out Arcann's evil to the point that his previous self is basically already dead. And my main is Imperial; demanding that Arcann must be punished for more or less what my own allies have done in the past would be flagrantly hypocritical.

That woman you mentioned before is also highly hypocritical, given the Order of Zildrog's goals.

*shrug* you're welcome to interpret it however you choose. But the person she's protecting is a war criminal. She's decided to aid and abet someone who has murdered, enslaved and subjugated millions across the galaxy. I'm far more concerned with those murders. If she chooses to be on the side of a mass murdering war criminal, and actively tries to stop the Alliance from bringing him to justice, there are consequences.

 

There's also the point that if you don't kill them, Arcann faces no justice whatsoever, and that isn't fair to any of the millions he harmed. The woman in the Nathema flashpoint who is angry that Arcann murdered millions on her world, and is now the Commander's associate with no punishment at all, is spot on. If there were an option to throw Senya ad Arcann in jail forever, one might choose that, but there's no way I would ever let either of them off the hook for what they did. I don't want either of them as an ally.

 

And if you keep them alive you have no choice but to bring them in KOTET 8 and 9, and no thank you.

All of the Zakuul Zildrog members had good motivation IMO not that it really mattered, our side did more damage to the Alliance than the Order of Zildrog :/ Between Theron's stupidity and Lana's incompetence ... I feel my character is on the verge of snapping at any second.

I agree with Ion. This guys butchered the galaxy and now he wants redemption? With the story going back to another rep vs imp conflict ... he's going to get redemption by half the galaxy while killing the other half? This is why I still favour Vaylin over Arcann ... she wouldn't care for the redemption plot, you provide her with stuff to kill and she's happy.

I'm still surprised no one has sent a few bounty hunters to Odessen to take a shot at Arcann ... **** all we can do now with the Gravestone and the fleet gone.

The Voss ritual is able to suck out Arcann's evil to the point that his previous self is basically already dead. And my main is Imperial; demanding that Arcann must be punished for more or less what my own allies have done in the past would be flagrantly hypocritical.

 

That woman you mentioned before is also highly hypocritical, given the Order of Zildrog's goals.

I don't think she's privy to the Order's full plans for Zildrog, especially since even Vinn Atrius didn't seem to anticipate The Gemini's plan. But the point was less about that one specific woman, and more about what Arcann did to cause her to act that way. There are literally millions more like her.

The Voss ritual is able to suck out Arcann's evil to the point that his previous self is basically already dead. And my main is Imperial; demanding that Arcann must be punished for more or less what my own allies have done in the past would be flagrantly hypocritical..

This is the issue our current law faces with criminals. They might be mass murderers with tens of kills under their belt.. but never go to prison (or death row) if they manage to convince the jury that they were just mentally ill... the voices told him to do it. In which case the criminal goes to mental institution (doesnt matter if they were lying or not). But never EVER do they go free after committing mass murder no matter how tragic their back story might have been, nor no matter how many family members jumped in-front of the police.

Simply sucking the dark out of you does not clean your criminal record of all the bad things you've done. And no matter how magical the SW universe is, in any of the lore nobody ever got instantly cured out of all their trauma and corruption in a matter of days. One of the reasons why I find the whole KOTFE a bit silly, they take liberties to do things fast to keep the story going in timely fashion that in books would take years.

This is the issue our current law faces with criminals. They might be mass murderers with tens of kills under their belt.. but never go to prison (or death row) if they manage to convince the jury that they were just mentally ill... the voices told him to do it. In which case the criminal goes to mental institution (doesnt matter if they were lying or not). But never EVER do they go free after committing mass murder no matter how tragic their back story might have been, nor no matter how many family members jumped in-front of the police.

 

Simply sucking the dark out of you does not clean your criminal record of all the bad things you've done. And no matter how magical the SW universe is, in any of the lore nobody ever got instantly cured out of all their trauma and corruption in a matter of days. One of the reasons why I find the whole KOTFE a bit silly, they take liberties to do things fast to keep the story going in timely fashion that in books would take years.

Well, I mean, they can in fact go free if they're cured.

If the planets Arcann attacked want his head, they can send their request to the Alliance. If they don't do so, that's on them. And if he's alive, it gives us far more options for justice than if we kill him out of hand.

Well, I mean, they can in fact go free if they're cured.

 

If the planets Arcann attacked want his head, they can send their request to the Alliance. If they don't do so, that's on them. And if he's alive, it gives us far more options for justice than if we kill him out of hand.

And what do you think is the average time of one getting cured, to achieve said freedom? Often the same amount of time they would have spent behind bars, if not even more as insanity is rarely cured even in modern day hospitals. The institutions are majorly therapeutic, not curative.

So by your logic, Arcann should go free if the planets he slaughtered on have no complaints? I guess easy way out of murder would be to kill everyone who cared about the victim then, no need to put anyone in prison then. Maybe their neighbors didnt like their noisy bbq parties anyway.

Well, all I can say is that I completely disagree with your view and am very glad you are not the one doing decisions on criminal law in my country

Weird how it's so easy to let hundreds you didnt know die and go without justice, but making that guy pay for their crimes who committed them, and you knew for for a few months, sure is hard to see anything bad happen to that guy...

That being said, yes there totally should have been an option to put Arcann away forever or whatever the justice system in Zakuul does. But letting him go with no consequences? Not my idea of justice of any kind.

Her motivation is understandable, but Senya isn't a bystander. She's essentially trying prevent a mass murderer from being brought to justice. In fact, she's willing to die to do it. After Arcann wanders off, she's also the one who decides to initiate a duel to the death with the Outlander.

True. The problem is, the dialogue makes the Outlander seem terrible for wanting to bring Arcann to justice.

Really wish they let our leaders of the Alliance be able to tell Senya, not only are you going to sit this out, you're going to be quarantined, just encase you go against everything you've said, like a cliche mother in a holo movie

Well, I mean, they can in fact go free if they're cured.

 

If the planets Arcann attacked want his head, they can send their request to the Alliance. If they don't do so, that's on them. And if he's alive, it gives us far more options for justice than if we kill him out of hand.

To me, it seems like an unreasonable assumption to conclude that none of Arcann's victims really mind that he's alive just because the game hasn't shown us any formal requests for his execution. The game seems to operate under the assumption that once Arcann is purified by the Voss ritual, he is free and will stay free.

True. The problem is, the dialogue makes the Outlander seem terrible for wanting to bring Arcann to justice.

 

Really wish they let our leaders of the Alliance be able to tell Senya, not only are you going to sit this out, you're going to be quarantined, just encase you go against everything you've said, like a cliche mother in a holo movie

To be fair, it's really only the first dialogue option that does this. I've mentioned more than once that I think decisions like that need three choices rather than two. I really would have preferred just an alternate dialogue option where we can tell Senya something to the effect of, "I understand. You do what you have to, but I need to do the same."

My Jedi Knight didn't take Senya's betrayal personally, but that didn't mean he was going to let Arcann escape justice.

True. The problem is, the dialogue makes the Outlander seem terrible for wanting to bring Arcann to justice.

 

Really wish they let our leaders of the Alliance be able to tell Senya, not only are you going to sit this out, you're going to be quarantined, just encase you go against everything you've said, like a cliche mother in a holo movie

I agree completely and it's one of the major issues I have with KOTET. The Outlander should not be portrayed as a villain for that choice.

Also, it's absurd to me that not only is the LS choice to spare him, but it's also to apparently let him be your new BFF, freely join the Alliance and push Theron and Lana out of the way during the last two chapters.

IMHO Senya's motives seemed suspect from Asylum onward. I do wish there had been an option to shut her down when she insists on coming to Arcann's ship with you.

And what do you think is the average time of one getting cured, to achieve said freedom? Often the same amount of time they would have spent behind bars, if not even more as insanity is rarely cured even in modern day hospitals. The institutions are majorly therapeutic, not curative.

 

So by your logic, Arcann should go free if the planets he slaughtered on have no complaints? I guess easy way out of murder would be to kill everyone who cared about the victim then, no need to put anyone in prison then. Maybe their neighbors didnt like their noisy bbq parties anyway.

Well, all I can say is that I completely disagree with your view and am very glad you are not the one doing decisions on criminal law in my country

 

Weird how it's so easy to let hundreds you didnt know die and go without justice, but making that guy pay for their crimes who committed them, and you knew for for a few months, sure is hard to see anything bad happen to that guy...

 

That being said, yes there totally should have been an option to put Arcann away forever or whatever the justice system in Zakuul does. But letting him go with no consequences? Not my idea of justice of any kind.

ITA with all of this.

Putting someone in jail isn't just about protecting the public from dangerous people; it's about punishing someone for their actions in many cases. It doesn't matter if Arcann essentially got religion and would never be evil again; it didn't change or erase the significant harm that he'd done in the past. All the people on those planets he'd attacked and wiped out were still just as dead as they'd been before.

The lack of a middle ground (putting Arcann and Senya in jail or carbonite) was a major failing in KOTET IMHO.