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What is the studio plans for adjusting Bolster in 5.10??

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Public Test Server
What is the studio plans for adjusting Bolster in 5.10??
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alexsamma's Avatar


alexsamma
10.27.2018 , 11:00 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Mubrak View Post
Well, bolster is still better than having to do ops in order to be able to play pvp, and I certainly like having only to switch a few gear pieces between PVE and PVP. I'm not pushing bolster, but I don't want a return of expertise either. When bolster is here to stay, it needs to be close to the max rating, but there are other ways to handle the gear gap.

What I'm rather "pushing" for is a form of level sync, that brings everyone down to the pvp rating. There is no need for special subpar but easily obtainable PVP gear - just give everything the 230 rating stats while in PVP.
Why do you dislike expertise?

Getting expertise gear, esp. post 4.0, was an extremely small grind.

Expertise gear ensured that you had full control of your stats and had none of the issues or bugs associated with bolster (if you've been here for a while you understand what I am talking about).

Expertise was an elegant and straightforward solution to separating pvp and pve gearing, the only "downside" was that you had to carry around 2 sets of gear.

Mubrak's Avatar


Mubrak
10.27.2018 , 12:18 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by alexsamma View Post
Expertise gear ensured that you had full control of your stats and had none of the issues or bugs associated with bolster (if you've been here for a while you understand what I am talking about).

Expertise was an elegant and straightforward solution to separating pvp and pve gearing, the only "downside" was that you had to carry around 2 sets of gear.
We always had bolster and the bugs that came with it. I remember a time in 2.0 or 3.0 where blue level 40ish stuff was BiS for PVP, there actually was a huge thread about exploiting bolster.

Expertise had just one purpose: scale down raid gear to PVP power level, and it failed badly at that. The disadvantage of someone in endgame PVE gear was so big, that even a new max level char in leveling gear had a huge advantage over them, and "hardcore" PVPers usually just pointed out the expertise rating and /spit on the PVEer before leaving the group.

Also, it wasn't just 2 sets of gear, it was 2 sets per role, so if you wanted the flexibility to switch between dps and tank/heal for pvp and pve, you had to maintain and juggle around 4 sets of gear.
Tune down reflections to pre 5.5 values!
Move inventory tabs back to the bottom!

http://www.swtor.com/r/rszTdG

alexsamma's Avatar


alexsamma
10.27.2018 , 12:30 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Mubrak View Post
We always had bolster and the bugs that came with it. I remember a time in 2.0 or 3.0 where blue level 40ish stuff was BiS for PVP, there actually was a huge thread about exploiting bolster.

Expertise had just one purpose: scale down raid gear to PVP power level, and it failed badly at that. The disadvantage of someone in endgame PVE gear was so big, that even a new max level char in leveling gear had a huge advantage over them, and "hardcore" PVPers usually just pointed out the expertise rating and /spit on the PVEer before leaving the group.

Also, it wasn't just 2 sets of gear, it was 2 sets per role, so if you wanted the flexibility to switch between dps and tank/heal for pvp and pve, you had to maintain and juggle around 4 sets of gear.
Expertise was introduced at max level because players would not use the free recruit gear that Bioware gave to everyone and would instead sell it for credits.

I think we can both agree that bolster is a poor system, we just disagree on how it should be handled.

I would like to see expertise re-introduced and have BW add the following:
-On the character sheet have an extra tab for "pvp"
-Have a second item bay that is limited to pvp items (gear, medpacks, stims, and grenades could be stored here).
-Whenever you engage in pvp you automatically equip the gear set that you have on the "pvp" tab.
-Every slot would have a basic item that is 4 ilevels below the entry level pvp gear so that even if you load into a pvp instance without any "pvp" gear you would have this set equipped.

Mubrak's Avatar


Mubrak
10.27.2018 , 12:48 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by alexsamma View Post
I would like to see expertise re-introduced and have BW add the following:
-On the character sheet have an extra tab for "pvp"
-Have a second item bay that is limited to pvp items (gear, medpacks, stims, and grenades could be stored here).
-Whenever you engage in pvp you automatically equip the gear set that you have on the "pvp" tab.
-Every slot would have a basic item that is 4 ilevels below the entry level pvp gear so that even if you load into a pvp instance without any "pvp" gear you would have this set equipped.
And what would expertise do here? Add a damage bonus/resistance if you fill the PVP slots?

Without "expertise", that's kinda what I suggested, I just went one step further, and want to automatically fill the "PVP slot" with a PVP rating version of the PVE item you equipped, since I don't see the point of having a gear progress in PVP. When I play a lot of PVP I already have the advantage of experience, why do I need a gear advantage as well?
Tune down reflections to pre 5.5 values!
Move inventory tabs back to the bottom!

http://www.swtor.com/r/rszTdG

alexsamma's Avatar


alexsamma
10.27.2018 , 01:12 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Mubrak View Post
And what would expertise do here? Add a damage bonus/resistance if you fill the PVP slots?

Without "expertise", that's kinda what I suggested, I just went one step further, and want to automatically fill the "PVP slot" with a PVP rating version of the PVE item you equipped, since I don't see the point of having a gear progress in PVP. When I play a lot of PVP I already have the advantage of experience, why do I need a gear advantage as well?
You could remove expertise and simply call it pvp gear, as long as gear obtained from pve would not be usable in pvp and gear obtained from pvp would not be usable in pve; if the gear sets are inter-changeable then we get back to core issue of gating acquisition.

A small gear progression with a very minimal power difference is not a bad thing:
-It gives players small goals to work towards
-Incentives low level pvp (if low level pvp awards the currency)
-Rewards having an understanding of itemization (thus promoting game knowledge)
-Promotes player agency by allowing you to control your stat distribution.

The "gear advantage" between fully min-maxed 208's and 204s was so small that it was easy to over-come with skill, and the 'grind' was so short that it's almost an insult to call it a grind.

Andryah's Avatar


Andryah
10.27.2018 , 01:14 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Mubrak View Post
Expertise had just one purpose: scale down raid gear to PVP power level, and it failed badly at that. The disadvantage of someone in endgame PVE gear was so big, that even a new max level char in leveling gear had a huge advantage over them, and "hardcore" PVPers usually just pointed out the expertise rating and /spit on the PVEer before leaving the group.

Also, it wasn't just 2 sets of gear, it was 2 sets per role, so if you wanted the flexibility to switch between dps and tank/heal for pvp and pve, you had to maintain and juggle around 4 sets of gear.
^^ This is exactly why Expertise is an ineffective approach.

If I recall correctly, even WoW has done away with expertise.. right? And they basically invented it years ago.
When you find yourself surrounded by hostile Clowns... always go for the "Juggler" first.

Mubrak's Avatar


Mubrak
10.27.2018 , 01:36 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by alexsamma View Post
You could remove expertise and simply call it pvp gear, as long as gear obtained from pve would not be usable in pvp and gear obtained from pvp would not be usable in pve; if the gear sets are inter-changeable then we get back to core issue of gating acquisition..
There is no issue with acquisition when there is no PVP gear to acquire. What I'm suggesting is that everyone has the same stats, and the gear only determines the choice of stats, not their value. i.e. an Adept Enhancement of any rating, be it 140 or 258, would be treated as a 230 rating Adept Enhancement for PVP.
Tune down reflections to pre 5.5 values!
Move inventory tabs back to the bottom!

http://www.swtor.com/r/rszTdG

alexsamma's Avatar


alexsamma
10.27.2018 , 03:51 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Andryah View Post
^^ This is exactly why Expertise is an ineffective approach.

If I recall correctly, even WoW has done away with expertise.. right? And they basically invented it years ago.
And pvp participation in legion and BFA has heavily declined (not that gearing is the only issue, but it is an issue).

alexsamma's Avatar


alexsamma
10.27.2018 , 03:55 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Mubrak View Post
There is no issue with acquisition when there is no PVP gear to acquire. What I'm suggesting is that everyone has the same stats, and the gear only determines the choice of stats, not their value. i.e. an Adept Enhancement of any rating, be it 140 or 258, would be treated as a 230 rating Adept Enhancement for PVP.
This approach could work but I think BW's track record with bolster makes this a less than favorable option; I would prefer a system that is less error/bug/exploit prone.

Mubrak's Avatar


Mubrak
10.27.2018 , 08:47 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by alexsamma View Post
This approach could work but I think BW's track record with bolster makes this a less than favorable option; I would prefer a system that is less error/bug/exploit prone.
And this is why I want bolster finally gone from PVP and see it replaced with a static gear rating for everyone?

You sound as if bolster is a new thing, only bolster without expertise heavily penalizing raid gear is new. Bolster always existed, so that you could compete before earning full PVP gear. There always were loopholes where bolstered PVE gear was better than PVP gear, because bolster adds a bonus dependent on the actual gear rating, instead of just giving everyone the same rating.

In the end, having a PVP gear "progress" while allowing everyone to participate in the gear they currently have isn't worth it. When people don't put on their dedicated PVP gear, just auto-equip it behind the scenes.
Tune down reflections to pre 5.5 values!
Move inventory tabs back to the bottom!

http://www.swtor.com/r/rszTdG