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TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
07.21.2019 , 07:11 AM | #11
“Are you dying?... can I haz your stuff?”

FlameYOL's Avatar


FlameYOL
07.21.2019 , 09:31 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
“Are you dying?... can I haz your stuff?”
Damn you beat me to it.
A man can have anything...If he's willing to sacrifice everything

Delani's Avatar


Delani
07.21.2019 , 10:01 AM | #13
The only thing I agree with here is about the old ravage animation ruining your star wars fantasy. Bioware does not understand that people want to play this MMO so that we can actually feel like we are in a star wars universe as ourselves. Animations and various character customizations is EVERYTHING. We should be able to customize the way we run and hold our lgihtsabers as well.

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
07.21.2019 , 10:24 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Phazonfreak View Post
Especially since BioWare had very good reasons to change that ability on both the Warrior and the Knight and they did not one day out of the blue decide that they don't like the look anymore and change the animation. In PvP it was heavily exploitable when using them meant that you were locked into an immobilizing channel that you could not get out of.

I've seen complaints about the new versions and nostalgia for the old versions very often here and ingame. Most of them seem to not know or forget (or maybe not even care) that old Master Strike and Ravage might have looked cool and certainly were the most flashy of moves with a lightsaber, but from a mechanical standpoint they were pretty bad and desperately needed a change.
ok. I want to address this from a pvp standpoint. what you say is true, it was difficult to complete the ravage channel. but you say making it an instant was a good thing. I say it was the dumbing down of SWTOR, and it's not just the ravage channel. that's just a symptom of the "root" cause: everyone's mobility and cc have been jacked-up to ludicrous proportions.

for example, what was the weakest issue for casting classes? they had to root themselves to cast. I can now run once through an entire rotation in arsenal merc without once having to hard cast anything. every cast class can take a legendary utility that allows them to cast their major channel while moving. every class has at least one, usually more skills that grant immunity to movement impairing effects.

incidentally, the final tic on blazing bolts, like that of ravage, is always the big one. that's intentional. if you positioned yourself properly and deployed your channel strategically, you earned that devastating final tic. now, it's a joke b/c roots are simple to break. hydrolics, enure, cleanse, mad dash, etc.

it gets much worse. almost every class has a movement buff that either breaks the game (desync) or breaks the 8v8 maps. between lolroll and holotraverse, there's no way to outrun an op to a node. ops have enough escapes and immunities to hold a node hostage infinitum as long as they don't need to actually kill anyone. sents don't have to think about where to put their centering. it's free transcend every 30s. these are skills and class buffs that ruined the tactical choices you could make in pvp.

the only WZ that isn't broken by all of these movement buffs in NC, because the channel doesn't need to be continuous, so it doesn't matter if you're first to the node. and strategic/coordinated CC can still win the node. everything else is just who's the better 1v1 or better class to stall or who has the most speed buffs and breaks.

hell, mercs, juggs, ops all have a reflect now. I mean...that's original.

TL;DR: they needed to get rid of ravage, but only because they absolutely borked the classes with crazy amounts of mobility that not only killed traditional channel abilities but outmoded almost every 8v8 WZ map.
Krack

Delani's Avatar


Delani
07.21.2019 , 10:37 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Phazonfreak View Post
Especially since BioWare had very good reasons to change that ability on both the Warrior and the Knight and they did not one day out of the blue decide that they don't like the look anymore and change the animation. In PvP it was heavily exploitable when using them meant that you were locked into an immobilizing channel that you could not get out of.

I've seen complaints about the new versions and nostalgia for the old versions very often here and ingame. Most of them seem to not know or forget (or maybe not even care) that old Master Strike and Ravage might have looked cool and certainly were the most flashy of moves with a lightsaber, but from a mechanical standpoint they were pretty bad and desperately needed a change.
Give people chocie/options, dont make choices for people. People do not like that.

QuinlanSaathis's Avatar


QuinlanSaathis
07.21.2019 , 03:48 PM | #16
This is not an airport
You don't have to announce your departure.

OlBuzzard's Avatar


OlBuzzard
07.21.2019 , 05:06 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
“Are you dying?... can I haz your stuff?”
I looked for a u-tube of that line when the commander takes the light saber to the stomach from Arcann just before they left the Asylum !
(████████████████████████████]:|█[ioi]█[|||████]|█|

denavin's Avatar


denavin
07.21.2019 , 07:49 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by QuinlanSaathis View Post
This is not an airport
You don't have to announce your departure.
Award: "Best Post of All Time."....^^
HK-55: "Do you think she passed her test?"
Z0-OM: "According to my sensors.... NO
."

Phazonfreak's Avatar


Phazonfreak
07.21.2019 , 11:14 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by foxmob View Post
ok. I want to address this from a pvp standpoint. what you say is true, it was difficult to complete the ravage channel. but you say making it an instant was a good thing. I say it was the dumbing down of SWTOR, and it's not just the ravage channel. that's just a symptom of the "root" cause: everyone's mobility and cc have been jacked-up to ludicrous proportions.

for example, what was the weakest issue for casting classes? they had to root themselves to cast. I can now run once through an entire rotation in arsenal merc without once having to hard cast anything. every cast class can take a legendary utility that allows them to cast their major channel while moving. every class has at least one, usually more skills that grant immunity to movement impairing effects.

incidentally, the final tic on blazing bolts, like that of ravage, is always the big one. that's intentional. if you positioned yourself properly and deployed your channel strategically, you earned that devastating final tic. now, it's a joke b/c roots are simple to break. hydrolics, enure, cleanse, mad dash, etc.

it gets much worse. almost every class has a movement buff that either breaks the game (desync) or breaks the 8v8 maps. between lolroll and holotraverse, there's no way to outrun an op to a node. ops have enough escapes and immunities to hold a node hostage infinitum as long as they don't need to actually kill anyone. sents don't have to think about where to put their centering. it's free transcend every 30s. these are skills and class buffs that ruined the tactical choices you could make in pvp.

the only WZ that isn't broken by all of these movement buffs in NC, because the channel doesn't need to be continuous, so it doesn't matter if you're first to the node. and strategic/coordinated CC can still win the node. everything else is just who's the better 1v1 or better class to stall or who has the most speed buffs and breaks.

hell, mercs, juggs, ops all have a reflect now. I mean...that's original.

TL;DR: they needed to get rid of ravage, but only because they absolutely borked the classes with crazy amounts of mobility that not only killed traditional channel abilities but outmoded almost every 8v8 WZ map.
You are absolutely right. Changing old Master Strike and Ravage to an instant was only a symptom of an overall mechanical change and especially with the addition of the movement granting legendary utility picks for all caster classes they finally went full on mobility, all the while granting many cc abilities and cc utility picks.

I am not arguing that the current meta of PvP combat is the best, nor am I personally actually that much interested in PvP at all, but within that shift in combat they simply were forced to address the "outdated" immobilizing channels.
I remember very vividly how all the Mmorpgs during that time flaunted their modern very fluid and very mobile combat mechanics and how much flack BioWare got for their old-fashioned, slow combat. Especially from the PvP crowd.
I can only imagine how many PvPers would be here complaining about Master Strike and Ravage if they had not changed them.

Quote: Originally Posted by Delani View Post
Give people chocie/options, dont make choices for people. People do not like that.
I refer to my other post. I also really like giving people choices and options, in that case though they changed it specifically because some people wanted them to make that choice for them.

theriomorphic's Avatar


theriomorphic
07.22.2019 , 12:51 AM | #20
I'll care when my mailbox is filled with all of your stuff.