http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Hyperspace

So I'm reading this on wookipedia...

"Hyperspace collisions, whether they be intentional or by accident, could devastate or even destroy a planet. Considering the fact that the output of the reactors of many Capital ships rivaled or eclipsed that of a star, and that the energies needed to make hyperspace travel possible were vast, one could unleash a great deal of destructive power on a target. Even if a planet had its planetary shielding up at the time of a hyperspace collision, it could still have the potential to kill millions on a world such as Coruscant just due to the fallout.[2] One of the more famous hyperspace accidents occurred during the Clone Wars, when the Star Battlecruiser Quaestor collided with the Separatist planet Pammant, fracturing it to its core.[3]"

This completely voids the need for the deathstar.... In fact the whole section undermines the need and point of most things that happened in the movies in the star wars fiction(In fact 90% or so of the entire Star Wars backdrop!). The deathstar is not fearful if it takes forever to get there(assuming) and is a massive object that can blow up a planet when you exist in a universe where you are barely escaping blowing up your planet or having it blow up every time someone makes a hyperspace jump to your home world.... The people writing this stuff clearly have no understanding or forthought about how technology is developed or the impact of commonly used technology on societies... There is no added fear factor for th death star when everyone should know all they need to do is send a legion of the smallest cheapest ships in mass or in small number to decimate or destroy any world! This makes the design and desire of the deathstar such a sign of impompetence, and should be even to the galaxies largest lamen, that it would and could never be something you could fear! The universe would laugh them off for it alone and probably send said suicice or robot starships in hyperdrives as bombs and blow them up. They have twisted to much of the base story to leave it's own credibility and have not consider all of this thoroughly. Or in fact at all... This fiction is a gigantis mess. This is an extremely easy aspect of fictin to consider. Extremely generic technological aspects.... It is even one of the main things that gave form to the starwars fiction.. This is as bad and thoughtless as story writing can gets.

These writers need to gain some basic english and reasoning skills and learn what the presupositions are. They trample over anything that isn't spelled out for them as you would a mentally handicaped child. They have decimated almost all of them. The fiction isn't in the least bit coherant anymore.

Apparently they don't get when you start using some fundamental background information(especially ones making technological limitations to make a whole environment and everything in it) of your storyline over some small details to create the basic atmosphere of the star wars movies and you them make the entire plot of the fiction rely on it, you can't change them without unraveling the entire fiction! Which, I'm pretty sure back when we still had basic writing and english and reason skills, were extremely fundamental in writing....

I said the entire reality of hyperdrive accordng to the article would realistically make that completely impossible with the given technology people would have already had to deal with and had dealt with for periods longer than we have the ability to conceive of or even have known history for in the real world. It could not be use to create fear. To make fear in the environment of already existing fear you need something that represents an extremely greater threat. It has to break the reality of their current circumstances which was already as fear indusive as it gets. This was pitiful! Logically a bomb that destroys the universe wouldn't be much of a deal breaker for these people. When everyone who has to learn and use hyperdrive has to know they are potentially a world kiling bomb at every instance there is little fear left to instill(They literally are the heat of world tearing explosive or freeze to death in depth of the empty cold void of space...Kill others or die along! Hot or cold!). And they would need to know that and be confronted with it to know how to function with the fictions currently described technology. Or else they would be such panty wadded wussies they would have been or the fiction would have to be about worlds of slaves on each world and have no will left to fear their own deaths anyway. They would probably REALISTICALLY embrace it and consider it their savior for bringing their own deaths! Or something darn close. They would be indifferent at BEST! And that would not make it for something so common to their own reality to induce massive fear in the universe. It has to be a new technology with a new affect. A new technology that does the same damn thing does not induce fear. And is not the storyline the movies ran from. So the description of hyperdrive on the wiki are BS! And anything in the fiction using it are a load.

If you take real life. the only reason we have peopel breading fear of biological and chemical agents is because we were first removed from the fear of nuclear. If not for that and in light of that the other means nothing. Not without some extremely strong aspect to bring new fear that completely overrides and completely circumvents the old fear. Or it is of no affect! The deathstar does nothing different than what should happen in extremely greater frequency already that hyperdrive can do with any ship.

If the death star were needed they could have created infinitly more fear with planet bomb ships(already existing uselessness and that discrepency aside). There is no practical application as a fear inducing ship that is not utterly imcompetent and would not be seen as such by the entire universe with this discrepency!

The Death Stars creation would have ensured there was no fear produced from anytihng attached to the Empire from it's mere creation. It would make them the laughing stock of the universe! In fact no organiztion and no fleet could ever possibly created any to begin with! When everyone is a world killer nobody fears a world killer or much else. The galaxy would exist in a situation of permanent shock!(There is a name for this type of fictional background. And it is not compatible with the star wars universe!) They woldn't even have to suicide. One man with minimal manufacturing skills or knowledge could take down the galaxy in moments with no warning... the proportions of the entire fiction and every circumstance in it are now nonsense! In fact the universes proper history wold have already consisted of worlds endlessly anihalating themselves with the great eas they had to do so. With the reality of politics and the friction and problems that would have occured they would have already destroyed themselve a million times over! There would be no jedi. Their technology far surpassed their usefulness and power! before the jedi order existed or anything currently written in the star wars fiction! Cannon or not!

To kick this in the pants. I beleive the deathstar had the gravity of a small moon. This makes it hyperspace ship bomb bait according to the wiki description! Nobody would send a fleet at it. They would send droid with hyperspace drives in their butts and destroy it from range! It would be annihalated at a moments notice!

In storytelling, where you make detail, you must live by that detail... They have chosen not to do this and destroyed themselves. They ripped the reality of their own fiction in two and their universe died with it!

The only thing that could possibly make them all fear is something INVINCIBLE that can also destroy them without leaving them the chance to destroy it. That woud/might have a chance, realistically, to induce fear given the circumstances, possibly!). But the deathstar was not invincible! Not with this rendition of hyperspace drive tech! The applications are too easy. and to say otherwise it too much of a stretch without alot of detail forcing it. And that would be seen as a very cheesy forcrful move basically nomatter how you looked at it. Not without alot of other information before it giving it credence and room miles and miles ahead of it in the fiction! Certain things in storytelling are really about forethought! 8)

You misunderstand, the Death Star is a symbol. There are a number of ways in which all life on a planet can be utterly exterminated (hyperspace collisions being far from the most effective) ranging from bioweapons to simply orbital bombardment. However these cannot become symbols, they lack identity, they lack presence.

The Death Star on the other hand can act as a potent symbol, is a space station the size of a moon (a testament to the power of the Empire in itself) of which the sole purpose is to destroy planets. Its a massive sign that says 'we have the power to destroy planets, and we will do so if we want to.' That is something the above cannot achieve.

Could they have merely devastated a planet by one of the above means as a show of power? Yes. But the effect is not as great as having a massive moon sized space station that can blow up planets under your control.

Altogether if you want to use the threat of planetary annihilation to create fear, this is the best way of doing it.

I know it'sa symbol. But it could not have the impact on the galaxy the fiction is portraying with the extent they say hyperspace tech works from the wiki. It would not create fear. It's an inconsitency in the fiction as it is now! Hyperspace was more generic in the movies originally and relied on it not being what it is said to be in the wiki to make that plausible. You missed the point.. And don't seem capable of getting it.

You have to understand a bit about how fiction works. There is urnesty and weight given to things in the movie. That means circumstances in the entire fiction have to be assumed to be within the range of things that can make that possible. The urgency in most of the things in the movies dictate this level of tech does not exist in this manner. It means hyperspace has to be defined and function differently. This is what plausible means. They have contradicted their own fictional realities. They went beyond and ignored what most of their storylines and scripts/sceens rely on to make the situations in their movies and screwed up the fiction if that is cannon information. Taht stuff matters in a fiction. It's called continuity or consistincy. If they are mixing world history with other types of elements they use they still need to maintain consitency. Unless they maintain the fiction as non consistent. Which they haven't. Unless they mix the two but they have not done so in a way that makes any sense or works out in any interesting or useful manner to storytelling. It's just random at this point. And if it's supposed to be random they have not done it so the randomness is creative in any way or interesting. Or if it's supposed to be bad it's not very good at being very bad... Unless they went for mundane lack of work. Which case they did very good!

You missed the point.. And don't seem capable of getting it.

I'll put this simply. My argument had the presuposition that went over yours and involves your point. You addressed it by having an argument in which that pressuposition is the main point as if it had no point or redress within my argument... Do you understand?! And if you are assuming that it did, no point was made to contradict or address that... You are missing all the natural points. Your not thinking out what is being said very deeply.

AKA your point is already addressed within the already standing argument. What is your point. And why did you miss it. Or please point out and address the contradiction more clearly and say why my point is not correct from within the confines of my argument. Your argument was not sufficient...

I'll put this simply. My argument had the presuposition that went over yours and involves your point. You addressed it by having an argument in which that pressuposition is the main point as if it had no point or redress within my argument... Do you understand?! And if you are assuming that it did, no point was made to contradict or address that... You are missing all the natural points. Your not thinking out what is being said very deeply.

 

AKA your point is already addressed within the already standing argument. What is your point. And why did you miss it. Or please point out and address the contradiction more clearly and say why my point is not correct from within the confines of my argument. Your argument was not sufficient...

Can you make sword in box light so sword come out when opened? then if sword is back after sword, use light saber on box, and saber will be boxed after sword is out.

What is this... I don't even...

Can you make sword in box light so sword come out when opened? then if sword is back after sword, use light saber on box, and saber will be boxed after sword is out.

Ah good times, good times, I remember this!

What is this... I don't even...

Old thing from the forums pre-wipe, pretty much gibberish.

This is a preserved version of the thread. Looks right iirc.

Short answer is that the Death Star was a symbol of Imperial might that they intended to use to keep worlds in line through fear. Grand Moff Tarkin explained that in the scene aboard the DS during the meeting involving him, Vader and several captains.He indicated that the Imperial Senate had been disbanded and that the Emporer intended to use the DS as a symbol of might to keep the systems in line.

In order to have something that is usable as a symbol, it needs to be seen as near invincible in order to build the fear. The Death Star was designed as that symbol. It had a tight defence against capital ships, was large in size to awe the populations, and carried a planet cracker super laser. In effect it was a globe built around a weapon system and was built in excess to show Imperial might.

As far as using hyperdrive equipped ships to destroy planets, the reason that it didn't appear as a feared solution is touched on by the novels and games through the use of inhibitors that pull the ships out of hyperspace when it hits a strong enough gravity well. Hence the advent of Interdictor Cruisers.

Any ships that were entering a system plotted a point outside the wells to exit hyperspace so as to avoid the wells. They also plotted their courses so as to not brush any wells, but kept close enough to systems so that if they suffered a hyperdrive fault they would be within striking distance of a system to obtain help.

Ships with faster/stronger hyperdrives could skirt closer to wells to shorten the trip. Hence the Falcon being able to make .6 past light speed and making the Kessel run in less then three parsecs. It could go fast enough to trim distance past the dark holes of the Maw near Kessel to gain the distinction. However any ship that hit the well and didn't have the inhibitor kick in properly would blow its hyperdrive and was in dire straights.

And, to put it bluntly capital ships were considered too valuable to just ram planets with, and there is no saying that it would actually crash into the planet considering planetary shields and the possibility to skip off the atmosphere. Not to mention the inhibitors that shut down the drives in the presence of a gravity well. Finally, there is the simple thought of economics. Chucking Star Destroyers into a planet in order to eliminate it is rather wasteful in men and material.

But with the potential number of people in the galaxy I would think the odds of accidents could annahilate the galaxy daily. what would a smaller ship do on top of it. Why do you think small ships or other bombs wouldn't be economical. How big are the reactors on smaller ships.

The odds of failure from real world engineering combined with the potential numbers of travelers and population density, unless the travel in hyperspace isn't as common to the every day star wars citizen, there could potentially be endless disasters. If the normal citizen is frequently hyperdriving to a planet and X number use the planet to stop. Y ammount should screw up Z of the time. It's not hard to imagine enormous ammounts of accidents depnding on number of travelers at one point.

And you have technical errors and the potentialy touchyness of hyperdrive as a phenominom to boot, I'm not sure what the fiction establishes on that, but that could be nasty.

Any random mentions of how many people visit coruscant or something? I wonder how much they have used anything like that in the fiction up to this point.

The guy below me did much better at explaining it.

Still The Tarkin Doctrine is in in-universe explanation for the Death Star

Two words: Mass shadows.

Hyperspace is often viewed as an alternate universe that a ship slips into to travel faster than the speed of light. Objects in realspace and objects in hyperspace do not interact by normal means, because they operate as separate expressions of physical existence. Where they do interact is the phenomenon known as mass shadows.

Objects of a certain mass cast 'shadows' into hyperspace, becoming physical obstacles to be navigated around lest a ship collide with them. Planets and stars possess shadows as large as their gravity wells, extending them well beyond their material sizes. Hitting a mass shadow can result in a ship being dragged into realspace, being badly damaged, or being outright destroyed.

Due to the nature of mass shadows and hyperspace, that means most incidents involving ships heading toward a planet in hyperspace would result in a ship being dropped out or destroyed before even passing through the planet's atmosphere. And that's assuming energy produced whilst in hyperspace reliably transfers back into realspace. Should a ship explode while in hyperspace, there's a chance of it never making it back into realspace on account of the plane's otherworldly nature.

A ship physically colliding with a planet's surface whilst traveling through hyperspace is the freakiest of freak accidents, culled not only by safety measures, but the laws of the universe itself. The chances of producing an intentional hyperspace collision with predicable results are slim to none.

"Fear will keep the local systems in line. Fear of this battle station."

"And what of the Rebellion? If the Rebels have obtained a complete technical readout of this station it is possible, however unlikely, that they might find a weakness and exploit it."

"And what of the Rebellion? If the Rebels have obtained a complete technical readout of this station it is possible, however unlikely, that they might find a weakness and exploit it."

"Any attack made by the Rebels against this station would be a useless gesture no matter what technical data they've obtained. This station is now the ultimate power in the Universe! I suggest we use it."

"Any attack made by the Rebels against this station would be a useless gesture no matter what technical data they've obtained. This station is now the ultimate power in the Universe! I suggest we use it."

"Don't be to proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the force."

But with the potential number of people in the galaxy I would think the odds of accidents could annahilate the galaxy daily. what would a smaller ship do on top of it. Why do you think small ships or other bombs wouldn't be economical. How big are the reactors on smaller ships.

 

The odds of failure from real world engineering combined with the potential numbers of travelers and population density, unless the travel in hyperspace isn't as common to the every day star wars citizen, there could potentially be endless disasters. If the normal citizen is frequently hyperdriving to a planet and X number use the planet to stop. Y ammount should screw up Z of the time. It's not hard to imagine enormous ammounts of accidents depnding on number of travelers at one point.

 

And you have technical errors and the potentialy touchyness of hyperdrive as a phenominom to boot, I'm not sure what the fiction establishes on that, but that could be nasty.

 

Any random mentions of how many people visit coruscant or something? I wonder how much they have used anything like that in the fiction up to this point.

The same principle applies here, except the Empire is waving that gun in your face.