Yay, some changes. I want to get into crafting but boy is it in a rough spot. Some more schematics would be nice too but I won't hold my breath.

You have to add the crafted tacticals into the general game outside of crafting- unlike 258 where you could earn the gear and not shortcut buy it- you have some of the best tacticals for respective classes or decent ones, locked behind the exact issue you're trying to stamp out in game.

 

All you have to do is add them as a drop chance in PvP crates and in NiM/MM operations. It'll balance things out so that the people who need them have a way (still your RNG which is still pretty bad) to get them.

 

Endgame main gear pieces should not be exclusively tied up in crafting.

@TrixxieTriss

The The mission list resetting is caused by any craft completion, andy new new pending rewards, and for some reason, the buff change on Krall's Accord tactical.

 

Actually it’s happening to me without the pending completion. It usually happens when I try to scroll

Also vastly reduce or remove the grade 11 requirements from various war supplies (e.g. crystal capacitors).

 

The jump from previous materials requirements such as grade 10 materials requiring a quantity of 8 to grade 11 requiring a quantity of 160 (a 20X increase) is absurd.

 

Better still, return this to how it was originally designed with multiple schematics available for each war supply, with one requiring larger amounts of lower grade materials, one requiring average amounts of medium grade materials, and one requiting smaller amounts of high grade materials.

 

Other thoughts mostly echoing other posters....

 

Specifics regarding mission success and failure rates, along with the specific effects of the +success amplifiers, needs to be disclosed.

 

Specifics regarding mission / crafting crit rates, along with the effects of the +crit amplifiers, needs to be disclosed.

 

All grade 11 missions should provide green (premium) materials in ratios similar to crafting requirements, with more returned as the level of mission increases (e.g. moderate < abundant < bountiful < rich < wealthy), as well as on a critical success.

 

The addition of green materials and re-balancing of ratios should NOT result in blue and purple materials becoming substantially more rare than they are today.

 

Jawa junk needs a total rework (reduce costs by a factor of 10) as it is mostly pointless and just clutters up inventory (one full stack of junk - 9999 - doesn't even cover the price of 50 g11 materials, which even after the changes aren't enough to craft much of anything).

Edited November 15, 2019 by DawnAskham

The materials required for “material combination” schematics was too high. We are making the following changes:

• Premium and Prototype material requirements have been reduced to 6 each (down from 10).
  
• Artifact material requirements have been reduced to 12 each (down from 15).
  
• The requirements to convert Premium combination materials to Prototype has been reduced to 2 (down from 3).
  

I can't speak to crafting 6.0 items requiring Artifact mats because 6.0 crafting has been such a mess I have yet to pursue that with all of my crafters. I think requiring 6 instead of 10 Premium and Prototype mat requirements is a step in the right direction, but still high. Especially when tied with Jawa junk, if each piece of grade 11 mat purchased with Jawa junk still costs 200 pieces of Jawa junk for one piece of grade 11 material.

Getting crafting schematics when deconstructing gear was too hard with too low of a chance:

• Broadly increased the chance to earn crafting schematics from deconstructing.
  
• Sort of related, we are making a pass to ensure that deconstruction is giving the correct professions materials. Raise any specifics you have where this isn’t the case.
  

"Broadly" is a pretty vague description. But, yes, the chance of getting crafting schematics from deconstructing is currently far too low. And, deconstructing a crafted item and then randomly getting grade 11 mats never used to make the item has been ... strange. I really don't need or want Underworld Trading grade 11 cloth dropping when I deconstruct an Armstech assembly component.

Too high of a requirement for Matrixes when crafting:

• 
  The Matrix material requirement has been removed from all schematics below Artifact quality.
  

Are Processed Isotopes considered Matrixes? If so, yes please remove the need for them in below Artifact quality items! If Processed Isotopes are not considered Matrixes, then please remove the need for them in below Artifact quality items.

 

If the tone of my post seems grumpy, well ... that's an accurate assessment. However, I do appreciate that you all are reading what's said about 6.0 crafting, and making some changes now instead of far down the road. Please keep listening, and implementing changes sooner, rather than later.

@TrixxieTriss

The The mission list resetting is caused by any craft completion, andy new new pending rewards, and for some reason, the buff change on Krall's Accord tactical.

 

The Gold Mat (Legendary Embers I assume you mean) mainly drops from Wealthy missions,, the deconstruction of gold set pieces is just a bonus. (pretty sure the guy meant the blue siotope, which drop like rain)

 

AND OMG PLZ YES Moar Deployable Companions... I could easily send out 18+ on my crafting toons... and with increased times for everything, would need to just to keep up with requirements

 

That tactical freaked me out last night... lol (I forgot I had it equipped on an alt).

 

I was trying to get my alacrity/crit/accuracy balanced correctly and all of a sudden I'm seeing the alacrity and crit numbers jumping around, and then defense... I was like, what the heck? Guess the new patch messed up something with bolster or something...

 

Then I remembered the tactical... oh, yes, my computer isn't actually frying...

Maths is hard and so is reading pts feed back for 4 weeks before launch. Honestly, how hard is it to adjust some numbers in the “formula”.

Why did they even get people to test it for the 4 weeks if it was going to be ignored before it went live? It’s been 4 weeks since it went live and now they post the changes they intend to make, but still haven’t? So all up, they will have had feed back for 12+ weeks before these fixes come through.

And they are still asking for feed back even though they know they’ve locked these changes in already for 6.0.2 and our feed back won’t change them. It makes me want to pull my hair out.

Don’t put stuff on the pts or ask for feed back if you aren’t going to use it before it goes live. It’s a waste of our time and everyone else’s if you are only going to use the live data and ignore the feed back you ask for. If you aren’t going to genuinely use it right then, why ask for it?

I don’t mind testing on the pts to improve the game before it goes live. But I do mind wasting my time if you intend to put all the feed back on a back burner till it’s been live for a month.

 

It's all just PR. They ask for our feedback to make us feel like we have input, thereby helping to blunt criticism and anger. We are being "managed" in a thoroughly cynical manner. This is the corporate way.

This is just a display bug, Grade 11 Bioanalysis, Rich Yield "Polution Solution" actually returns Biochemical Samples.

 

There are however some issues with skills only returning the fixed portion of their output, and not the random part, which is causing artificial inbalances between materials of the same yield... both have been bug reported by myself

 

Interesting to know. I wouldn't call it a "display bug" per se, more like something slipping through QA or not being actioned by the team and rectified after being notified. I'm also glad there's at least one statistician among us

 

To be honest, I'm concerned by the lack of clarity from BioWare on the whole "secondary" Amplifiers, which are meant to have a direct effect on the whole crafting umbrella. Aside from https://www.swtor.com/info/news/news-article/20191022-1, which provides no real insight into how the numbers gained from the "secondary" amplifiers have an effect on the values we already had.

 

I'd like to see some clarity from BioWare specifically on this issue. Does anyone even know if these have any real impact on crafting, or gathering, or time elapsed? Or is it really just yet more conditioning to RNG so we end up gamblers and buying virtual currency to gamble on the Cartel Market? From the side of the fence I'm sat on, looking at 6.0 overall, it's just yet more conditioning, which is concerning. Ethics and all.

[...]Does anyone even know if these have any real impact on crafting, or gathering, or time elapsed? [...]

I've managed to parse both "Influential" and "Efficiency" amps

Influential increase the value of a gift directly, rounded down

ROUNDDOWN( GIFT_VALUE * (1 + INFLUENTIAL_TOTAL))

.... the formula for gifts values is a bit complicated, but I maintain a calculator for companion gifting that correctly parse it (and all the other bonuses which can be found here

 

Efficiency Amps works just like normal Efficiency, but applied after the normal value... this lowers it's effective value by the value of base efficiency (eg a 50 comp lowers the effectiveness of Eff_Amps by 75%)... the formula is

(BASE TIME * (1 - BASE_EFFICIENCY)) * (1 - AMP_EFFICIENCY_TOTAL)

Base Efficiency includes bonuses from Companions (1.5% / level rounded down), and Guild Fortune Set bonus, plus the Other specific guild perks, and Guild Skill, if an as they apply... you can see the effect of amps on mission times in the above linked sheet on the mission calculator page (the crit values aren't plugged in yet)

 

+Critical Amps are either broken, of have such a small effect that I couldn't detect it in limited runs.

+Success Amps appear to reduce the added failure rate... I don't have hard numbers for either value right now.

+Resourceful Amps... I haven't had the time to comparison test, and it's gonna take a long while or a response from BW devs more likely.

Edited November 15, 2019 by Void_Singer

It's all just PR. They ask for our feedback to make us feel like we have input, thereby helping to blunt criticism and anger. We are being "managed" in a thoroughly cynical manner. This is the corporate way.

 

I’d rather cold hard truth. I’d respect them more and be more likely to stick around because there would be less resentment

+Critical Amps are either broken, of have such a small effect that I couldn't detect it in limited runs.

+Success Amps appear to reduce the added failure rate... I don't have hard numbers for either value right now.

+Resourceful Amps... I haven't had the time to comparison test, and it's gonna take a long while or a response from BW devs more likely.

 

That's interesting, the only thing I noticed when using the +10.5% bonus on Rank 50 companions is not failing missions (yet). I didn't spend the time to actually set up any tracking on the missions I was running, so take with a "pinch of salt", I certainly haven't spent any serious time running missions since 6.0 landed as I'm busy with a lot of other things.

 

I definitely think we need a response from BioWare as to exactly how these are having an effect (if any), especially for those of us running with Level 50 companions / Subscriber perks / Guild perks adding to the variation. Something more detailed so we can make an informed decision as to whether the perks are worth chasing or not, sadly this - http://www.swtor.com/info/news/news-article/20191022-1 - only provides an overview of amplifiers with next to no data or really tangible in-depth information. Great as a simple overview and introduction, but that's where it ends.

 

It would be immensely useful. Hopefully Eric will feed this back and perhaps get us that information. (Please Eric!)

[...]That's interesting, the only thing I noticed when using the +10.5% bonus on Rank 50 companions is not failing missions (yet). I didn't spend the time to actually set up any tracking on the missions I was running, so take with a "pinch of salt", I certainly haven't spent any serious time running missions since 6.0 landed as I'm busy with a lot of other things.[...]

TBH that's about what I've done so far.... the problem with low ods events is that they are less evenly distributed by nature, so take HUGE datasets to get something approaching good numbers... my guestimate, is that they added 5% failure rate across the board (instead of shifting it), whith the further guess that "success" amps directly subtract from that, meaning you only need 15% to never fail a crew mission, evern orange.... but those are some pretty wild guesses right now, and I would NOT put money on them

I'm going to work on alts until my sub runs out, maybe next year there will be a fix that satisfies the player base.

 

Until then, I'm staying a iRating 270. End game isn't worth the time.

I'm going to work on alts until my sub runs out, maybe next year there will be a fix that satisfies the player base.

 

Until then, I'm staying a iRating 270. End game isn't worth the time.

 

same - the cynic in me says this change is just because either everyone stopped crafting and it didn't become the credit sink they were hoping it was going to become - or that so many people now have 300+ gear rating it was pointless to gate gear behind crafting

 

the crafting changes were almost universally disliked on PTR and some people gave some excellent feedback you just have to feel they deliberately ignored it - to say now 'we are listening' is really just the usual corporate PR speak for something they realise isn't working...

Edited November 16, 2019 by BigDRC

It's all just PR. They ask for our feedback to make us feel like we have input, thereby helping to blunt criticism and anger. We are being "managed" in a thoroughly cynical manner. This is the corporate way.

 

Yup. Business as usual.

 

Starts with unreasonable high crafting costs.

6.0.2

Oh, piece of candy (slight improvement)

6.0.3

Oh, piece of candy (slight improvement)

6.0.4

Oh, piece of candy (slight improvement)

 

And so on. Maybe i'll check by in a year or two.

It's all just PR. They ask for our feedback to make us feel like we have input, thereby helping to blunt criticism and anger. We are being "managed" in a thoroughly cynical manner. This is the corporate way.

 

Yup.

 

Crafting was OK ish before 6.0, let's call it a 6/10.

6.0 has turned it to 1/10.

These much vaunted "improvements" will make it a 2/10.

 

And somehow we are supposed to believe this is acceptable.

 

I also note Bioware have returned to the "one post to halfheartedly pretend we care what you think, then we go silent again just to show we don't" approach to Community Mismanagement.

 

All The Best

I also note Bioware have returned to the "one post to halfheartedly pretend we care what you think, then we go silent again just to show we don't" approach to Community Mismanagement.

 

All The Best

 

If you were the developer tasked with sorting out the 6.0 crafting, would you want to post on these forums? Also the post a little bit above sums it up.

 

Slight improvement. 6.0.2

Slight improvement. 6.0.x

Slight improvement. 6.0.x

 

I have no idea why BioWare put themselves through this each and every time. All it does is breed resentment at the changes they make, when they could just listen to the feedback originally gleaned from the PTS and actually act on that feedback. Now they have to claw it back to where it becomes "acceptable change" and lose goodwill in the process.

 

This is why I don't do the PTS.

You do care <3

If you were the developer tasked with sorting out the 6.0 crafting, would you want to post on these forums?

Indeed, what more should they say? They've said they heard the complaints and are doing something with it in a few weeks from now. It seems to me that some people mistake not hearing what they want with BW not communicating enough. I will be the first to say BW has communication issues, but this isn't it.

I have no idea why BioWare put themselves through this each and every time. All it does is breed resentment at the changes they make, when they could just listen to the feedback originally gleaned from the PTS and actually act on that feedback. Now they have to claw it back to where it becomes "acceptable change" and lose goodwill in the process.

I often wonder about this. Why do they always seem to do their best to tick people off every major patch? But then I have to ask the question how many people it actually really ticks off. Because this forum has a very small group of people posting. Now I can imagine that crafting affected a lot of people negatively with 6.0 and so we do see changes. But I still don't have a good answer for that question. The only thing that comes close is that people who get upset are still committed and people who become apathic are not. People love to complain about stuff. So perhaps on a deeper level we enjoy doing this and also keeps us engaged maybe

This is why I don't do the PTS.

Yeah the PTS never really appealed to me either. Also because I don't want to see the content before it comes out but also because I can't be bothered with the whole feedback process. Most players, sorry to say, don't seem to give constructive feedback. They only rage about stuff and throw general terms around that you cant' do anything with. So I stay on the outside of that.

 

As it stands my biggest problem with crafting in 6.0 is that it's just about augments and stims/adrenals. That's basically the scope of endgame crafting in 6.0. That's a very very narrow scope. So once I have my augments sorted, which I will in December, crafting becomes essentially useless to me except for occasional batches of stims. That I find the actual biggest problem with crafting at the moment.

Edited November 17, 2019 by Tsillah

Probably going to fall on deaf ears that have paid no attention to our comments on crafting but here goes again.

 

There was no need to change anything for 6.0 below legendary from previous crafting models. Are you trying to justify someone having a job to simply screw with us?

 

Per the post:

 

* Materials for all combination components are too high. Reducing to 6x6x6 is still too high. You have not increased the material drops to even go to 4x4x4. Revert to 2x2x2, and this includes artifact.

* Conversion requirement to convert premium to Prototype should be reduced to 1 to 1.

Gathering missions are totally screwed up.

*Mission default should be premium mats, with prototype and artifact at lower ratios on successful rng.

*Agree with increasing rewards for wealthy reward missions

*Reduce failure rate on all crafting missions...having 4 out of 8 missions fail with lvl 50 companions is bs

Getting crafting schematics when deconstruction is crazy stupid too low. Increase to 50 or 100 percent. 100 Percent if you don't decrease to 2x2x2 and 50 if you do

Solid Resource Matrixes (SRM) should not be required in anything below Legendary recipies.

*Decrease the number of SRM required period. An average PVE solo player might be able to get 6 per week if they work at it and don't have a big conquest guild.

Legendary Ember requirements are fine. Leave unchanged.

 

Rebalancing of material inflow is most deffinately required.

 

You failed to heed comments during PTS and rolled out a Piece of Crap for crafting. Get your heads out of your backsides and fix this crap asap. You made things way more complicated than they needed to be.

I think reducing to 6x6x6 is fine. Crafting was way too easy before.

 

I also like the idea of increasing the need for Legendary Embers.

 

I suggest increasing the amount of gifts we get from the gift missions. Instead of one blue gift on normal reward and one purple gift on a crit why not 3 blues on a normal reward and 3 purple on a crit. When you guys introduced that gift vendor for such low prices for blue and purple gifts it ruined the whole market for gathering gifts with crewskills. If you increase the return to 3 or more, would make those missions useful again.

Edited November 18, 2019 by camzoner

Any plans to reduce the grade 11 component cost for war supplies from 8 to 4? Pretty Pretty please!

First off, I typically craft stuff for my toons (and rarely sell stuff on GTN). So for my crafting to earn Mega credits in game is not why I craft stuff. It's a nice side activity and helps with leveling up toons. However, I have not crafted any of the 6.0 schematics I could learn because the material costs are way too excessive. The current implementation seems very passive-aggressive (i.e., it seems that you want to remove crafting but you can't just take it out of the game). I am not so interested in crafting to work through all the numbers and ratios, which others have apparently spent their time to do so and will defer to their efforts.

 

Outside of the materials required, there are also the following bugs in Crafting (as I see it):

 

1) When I attempt to RE any pre-6.0 crafted item I'm given a % chance of success (or "No Research Available"). However, for any 6.0 gear (iLvl 268+) there is NO message. Since I have RE'd quite a bit of GREEN gear (and mods/enhancements), and yet to research ANYTHING, I have to wonder if the chance to RE is so low that it's not being advertised or it there is in fact no research available AND all the RE does is give me a few materials. Please add a message for that gear that gives the RE chance.

 

2) The materials returned from the RE of a green item don't seem to be in the same proportions that are required to MAKE green gear. This should be brought in line.

 

3) On my Cybertech, I can take an armor piece with built-in stats (i.e., no slots for armor/mod/enhancement) and put it into the RE window (and RE the item). Prior to 6.0 that gear would be disabled (as I could not RE something I didn't know how to make). Being able to put another crafting profession items into the deconstruction dialog is convenient if I just want to bust it up for materials, but I have no way of knowing if I'm missing out on the opportunity to learn a new schematic or if it's a feature to be able to do this or a bug.

Edited November 28, 2019 by Dashtardly
Corrected spelling

Probably going to fall on deaf ears that have paid no attention to our comments on crafting but here goes again.

There was no need to change anything for 6.0 below legendary from previous crafting models. Are you trying to justify someone having a job to simply screw with us?

Per the post:

* Materials for all combination components are too high. Reducing to 6x6x6 is still too high. You have not increased the material drops to even go to 4x4x4. Revert to 2x2x2, and this includes artifact.

* Conversion requirement to convert premium to Prototype should be reduced to 1 to 1.

Gathering missions are totally screwed up.

*Mission default should be premium mats, with prototype and artifact at lower ratios on successful rng.

*Agree with increasing rewards for wealthy reward missions

*Reduce failure rate on all crafting missions...having 4 out of 8 missions fail with lvl 50 companions is bs

Getting crafting schematics when deconstruction is crazy stupid too low. Increase to 50 or 100 percent. 100 Percent if you don't decrease to 2x2x2 and 50 if you do

Solid Resource Matrixes (SRM) should not be required in anything below Legendary recipies.

*Decrease the number of SRM required period. An average PVE solo player might be able to get 6 per week if they work at it and don't have a big conquest guild.

Legendary Ember requirements are fine. Leave unchanged.

 

Rebalancing of material inflow is most deffinately required.

 

You failed to heed comments during PTS and rolled out a Piece of Crap for crafting. Get your heads out of your backsides and fix this crap asap. You made things way more complicated than they needed to be.

I Totally Agree With This Guy! Tis Needfull For You All, To Dial it way back!

As far as I read here, this doesn't address that level 11 crafting is ridiculously complex. Y'all destroyed Conquest crafting over a year ago, and it doesn't appear you've learned a thing. There is no influx of customers coming. Y'all -really- need to focus on keeping the people you do have. Requiring stacks upon stacks of mats, for a single item isn't fun or rewarding. Its clearly a time and credit sink. I was stupid enough to spend 4.5m credits unlocking level 11 crafting for three of my characters, but the other 5 won't be done. Level 11 items aren't even necessary, and level 45 augments -still- have better single stat boosts than up to 74. It is dumb and I will not be participating. Sorry not sorry. Your patch is a bandaid to keep up appearances, hoping to ride out the holidays, nothing more.