In your previous post you said that nobody used the hybrid spec. Now you're saying if they kill the hybrid spec they'll need to buff the individual specs leading me to believe you use the hybrid spec.

 

 

Sounds like you're saying "DONT NERF ME BRO".

 

Edit: You contradict yourself so much. Which is it? Is nobody using the hybrid spec? If so why would they need to buff the 31 point talents to compensate?

 

I said people don't go heavy lightning hybrid spec. Which they don't. They go heavy madness. You obviously are grasping because you have no argument.

Merc/Commando having the same CC as a Sorc/Sage? Can I please come to your fantasy land? Because that statement is just factually untrue.

 

Just to compare:

 

Shield(Insta cast heal, awesome scaling, appliable to others, run speed buff(talented)) -> nothing

aoe knockback(20s cooldown, 8m range), with talents immoblizes for up to 5s, unlimited targets -> aoe knockback(30s(20s talented) cooldown, 4m range(8m talented), with 4s slow, max 5 targets

speed boost -> nothing

30m 6s slow, 12s cooldown -> nothing

30m Ranged Interupt, 4s(6s talented) lockout, 12s cooldown-> nothing

Extrication -> nothing

4s stun 60s cooldown(50s talented), deals damage -> 4s stun 60s cooldown, no damage

3s 50% channeled slow -> nothing or 25 pts in gunnery for 50% channeld slow

force armor aoe sleep(talented) -> stock strike single target knockback(talented)

in combat rez -> nothing

 

That's a lot of nothing that the other ranged dps/healer class gets. It's also nice that i get to spend talent points to make my abilities have the same effects that sage/sorc get base line. The only thing that commando/mercenary gets base line that sage/sorc doesn't is a 12second 25% damage reduction with a 2 minute cooldown. Your opponent would have to do 12k damage or more in 12seconds for that to be better. The downside is that reactive shield has a 2 minute cooldown, compared to the 20s cooldown on force armor and reactive shield can not be cast on other people.

 

On armor:

Most dps classes have ~50% armor reduction, or deal elemental/internal damage, so to say that 30% mitigation vs 15% mitigation is meaningful is about as truthful as saying that sorc/sage has better defense due to having twice the base avoidance chance(10% vs 5%).

 

So, Those abilities that were ACTUALLY cc Abilities. Stun's and punt. You have a worse stun but a better punt. CROWD CONTROL. Not sprints, interupts, shields and battle res's. Those aren't CC's.

Edited February 5, 2012 by Lingalol

Just read the part where you said that we have a strong buble... really? Even with the talent which adds 20% more "armor" to the buble, it goes down with 1 maybe 2 hits ( it takes around 2.5k damage ). That in you're opinion is a strong buble?

 

Yeah Bioware, listen to this guy. Sages/Sorc wear light armor, we go down faster than any class in the game. Stop asking for nerfs like a little cry baby.

 

Sorc's have posted the bubble absorbs up to 5k with a 17-20 sec cd. Plz spend more time with your class.

 

To the op yes the Sorc spec needs an adjustment. it is obvious and is needed for the good of the game long term in pvp. The good Sorc's will still do well after the adjustment.

just another pve terrible marauder that doesn't realize that with gear his class is the most powerful.

 

Because he has no idea how to play.

 

BTW, Merc have the same amount of cc we do. More Burst, and more mitigation. I don't see the issue?

 

 

The misconception of sorcs do massive damage all comes from wrath and deathfield.

 

I use it CONSTANTLY when targets are stacked together because its my main dps ability which hits for the same amount on every target it hits. It doesn't crit for massive amounts. But it does do a decent amount of damage.

 

The class that does the LOWEST burst and single target damage should be doing the MOST overall damage or the class is useless. Grow up, Accept that you aren't very good and Move on. Also, No good sorc goes half lightning, Just to CL. 20% DF and dot crits are much better.

 

Bahaha Merc's have the same amount of CC Sorc's do. Jesus this is what I am talking about. Seperating the good Sorc's from the terribads like you.

Bahaha Merc's have the same amount of CC Sorc's do. Jesus this is what I am talking about. Seperating the good Sorc's from the terribads like you.

 

Or... You don't know what you are talking about?

+1

 

With Rakata/BM gear it actually absorbs up around 6-7k. Basically a single bubble means a Sorc has +25% effective health. They might be cloth armored but with a bonus 6-7k health in an instant cast 20 second cooldown they're certainly tankier than any other DPS in the game.

I said people don't go heavy lightning hybrid spec. Which they don't. They go heavy madness. You obviously are grasping because you have no argument.

 

....Did you even read my original post? Please do.

 

The hybrid specs I'm talking about are variations of the Wrath + Lightning Storm combo that revolves around frequent instant-casts of Chain Lightning while utilizing the bottom half of the Madness tree for DoT DPS and Death Field(+20% DoT DMG) and Force Lightning as a filler.

 

In PvP these specs get literally all of the PvP talents in the lightning tree and all of the PvP talents in the madness tree creating a hybrid that has the best of both worlds in terms of utility while also having more DPS than either tree.

Edited February 5, 2012 by Tumri

....Did you even read my original post? Please do.

 

The hybrid specs I'm talking about are variations of the Wrath + Lightning Storm combo that revolves around frequent instant-casts of Chain Lightning while utilizing the bottom half of the Madness tree for DoT DPS and Death Field(+20% DoT DMG) and Force Lightning as a filler.

 

Which, People don't go. MY GOD. You don't understand this at ALLLLLLLL. You just assume those sorc's that were SPEC'D Heavy madness with wrath / CL were the lightning cc spec. The heavy madness spec Is much higher damage output, With the loss of the lightning cc talents. Which is BETTER.

 

But, What you don't understand is you see these sorc's doing this damage output. You go, THEY ARE THE HEAVY LIGHTNING CC SPEC (which they aren't). You are spouting out nonsense. Most marauders are great at pvp when done right. Why are you having so many issues.

Edited February 5, 2012 by Lingalol

....Did you even read my original post? Please do.

 

The hybrid specs I'm talking about are variations of the Wrath + Lightning Storm combo that revolves around frequent instant-casts of Chain Lightning while utilizing the bottom half of the Madness tree for DoT DPS and Death Field(+20% DoT DMG) and Force Lightning as a filler.

 

In PvP these specs get literally all of the PvP talents in the lightning tree and all of the PvP talents in the madness tree creating a hybrid that has the best of both worlds in terms of utility while also having more DPS than either tree.

 

Going heavy lightning hybrid. you miss out on massive amounts of damage increases. With crushing darkness / affliction / deathfield. Again, You have no idea what you are talking about

Most marauders are great at pvp when done right. Why are you having so many issues.

 

Page 1 - Post 3

 

I don't have problems. I can definitely understand when an unintentional character build is overpowered though.

So, Those abilities that were ACTUALLY cc Abilities. Stun's and punt. You have a worse stun but a better punt. CROWD CONTROL. Not sprints, interupts, shields and battle res's. Those aren't CC's.

 

Sprints, interrupts(!), battle res, ally pull. None of those count as Crowd Control? Holy cow have you separated yourself from reality.

 

But really you are making a semantic argument, either because you are not able to see the important parts of what is being discussed, or you are intentionally deflecting comments. Both of which reflect poorly about you and your argument(a bit of a struggle to call it that). So please come back with a real response that addresses the central point of the debate.

Sprints, interrupts(!), battle res, ally pull. None of those count as Crowd Control? Holy cow have you separated yourself from reality.

 

But really you are making a semantic argument, either because you are not able to see the important parts of what is being discussed, or you are intentionally deflecting comments. Both of which reflect poorly about you and your argument(a bit of a struggle to call it that). So please come back with a real response that addresses the central point of the debate.

 

 

Explain how sprints and battle res's or ally pull are CROWD CONTROL abilities. I can Slightly understand Interrupts. But, No game at any point Especially a serious pvp game has considered these CC abilities. What games DO you play?

I think he means utility. Interrupts are definitely a form of CC though terms of PvP though.

 

His point still stands. In terms of raw utility a hybrid spec sorcerer is lightyears ahead of every other class.

Edited February 5, 2012 by Tumri

I think he means utility. Interrupts are definitely a form of CC though terms of PvP though.

 

His point still stands. In terms of raw utility a hybrid spec sorcerer is lightyears ahead of every other class.

 

His point can stand just fine. That doesn't change that they have equal amount of CC.

They don't. You have a 2s stun built into instant-cast Whirlwind. You have a 5 second immobilize build into your 20s CD AoE Knockback. You have a 3 second immobilize build into the breaking of your bubble. That's all on top of what Mercs have and they have the second most CC/Utility in the game.

They don't. You have a 2s stun built into instant-cast Whirlwind. You have a 5 second immobilize build into your 20s CD AoE Knockback. You have a 3 second immobilize build into the breaking of your bubble. That's all on top of what Mercs have and they have the second most CC/Utility in the game.

 

Honestly, If you nerf that spec lightning is completely worthless. It's the only point of going heavy lightning. Heavy hybrid lightning is worthless beyond its cc. It doesn't do remotely as close as damage as heavy madness hybrid. Quit assuming every sorc is the spec you linked. They aren't. High damage dealing sorcs are Heavy madness for it provides much more damage output at the cost of control.

So, Those abilities that were ACTUALLY cc Abilities. Stun's and punt. You have a worse stun but a better punt. CROWD CONTROL. Not sprints, interupts, shields and battle res's. Those aren't CC's.

 

Dude, make your own list. You are triing to look smart here knowing everything and stuff, prove your point. And try not to make it biased.

 

 

p.s. I dont think its fair to list only 1 type of defensive mechanics, listing all of them (armor, interrupts and escape mechanics included) would be much better.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Vesperr

Honestly, If you nerf that spec lightning is completely worthless. It's the only point of going heavy lightning. Heavy hybrid lightning is worthless beyond its cc. It doesn't do remotely as close as damage as heavy madness hybrid. Quit assuming every sorc is the spec you linked. They aren't. High damage dealing sorcs are Heavy madness for it provides much more damage output at the cost of control.

 

Then the change I'm asking for would have no effect at all on those sorcerers. I'm merely asking for Madness/Lightning hybrids to not have access to things like Electric Bindings and Backlash. Heavy Lightning builds wouldn't be hurt at all. Heavy Madness builds wouldn't be hurt at all. The only build that would be hurt is the type of build I linked. A build that sacrifices a bit of damage to have a disgusting amount of control. I'm saying nobody should be able to have the type of control that a hybrid sorc(NOT the heavy madness/lightning builds you're talking about) has.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Tumri

So..... You did more damage than any sorc, and none of the sorcs did any real healing either. You got more medals than any sorc. You got more commendations, credits and valor than any sorc...

 

But it's sorcs who need to be nerfed...

 

I need a 1024x1024 icon for rolling my eyes.

 

P.S. I just feel the need to point out that YOU EVEN DID MORE HEALING THAN ANY OF THE SORCS.

 

 

This! I laughed my *** off!

This! I laughed my *** off!

 

Read the pages of back and forth reponses first.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Tumri

That's actually false. A sorc counters melee DPS with their abundant CC and kiting tools. They're the frost mages of SWTOR. Sorcerers are countered by Operatives because their burst is unavoidable and can't be kited due to stuns and knockdowns.

 

That's such a blatant lie its not funny. My <Insert Sith Warrior Class> can easily kill sorcerers. Only the best of them manage to escape let alone down me. Thats of coarse if I attack first. And if they attack first/have the upper hand, shouldn't they be able win?

 

Hybrid or not, they should be able to kill somebody if they get the upper hand.

 

You're the one talking about cake and eating it too.

 

Whats your problem? You mad that sorcerer can purge your precious auto heal dots? Or are you mad that you have to think instead of face-rolling buttons?

 

The day they take personal choice out of spec-ing is the day I go back to Rift.

That's such a blatant lie its not funny. My <Insert Sith Warrior Class> can easily kill sorcerers. Only the best of them manage to escape let alone down me. Thats of coarse if I attack first. And if they attack first/have the upper hand, shouldn't they be able win?

 

Hybrid or not, they should be able to kill somebody if they get the upper hand.

 

You're the one talking about cake and eating it too.

 

Whats your problem? You mad that sorcerer can purge your precious auto heal dots? Or are you mad that you have to think instead of face-rolling buttons?

 

The day they take personal choice out of spec-ing is the day I go back to Rift.

 

Against an equally skilled Sorcerer specced 0/20/21 a Warrior will not win. Knockback(+5 second auto-root) lets a Sorcerer cast a Dark Infusion and create a LOT of distance to basically reset the fight using a 20 second cooldown if things start looking bad. It doesn't matter if the Warrior gets the jump first unless there's a pretty big gear or skill gap. Once the bubble breaks the Warrior is immobilized for 3 seconds allowing the Sorcerer to once again create distance. If things start looking very bad the Sorcerer can insta-cast a Whirlwind and break it for the 2-second stun. On the off chance things start looking particularly bad a Sorcerer can simply use the 4 second stun to nuke the warrior. If a Sorc is about to die then a quick Force Sprint and slow will make it impossible for a warrior to finish the kill. This is all in a 1v1 situation where Warriors shine by the way. In a group situation it isn't even close. A sorcerer nukes from a distance and provides a disgusting amount of utility to group v group encounters.

 

"You mad that a sorcerer can purge your precious auto-heal dots? Or are you mad that you have to think instead of face-rolling buttons?"

 

I'm pretty sure even Bioware awknowledged the fact that Marauders/Sentinels are the most difficult class in the game(Edit: LINK). You seem to think the DoTs we have somehow make us a faceroll class. Sorry to say but you have that backwards. I think you're the one mad you might not be able to faceroll to win. Right now a hybrid spec Sorcerer that doesn't even know how to properly kite can still do well. That's not balanced.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Tumri

Sorcerers aren't OP, they're are just so many of them (no offense I'm on your're side Sorc community) that when you die because 3 of them focused you down you think it was just one cause of all the lightning, and don't even begin to complain about getting focused down cause that is your fault for getting in that scenario in the first place, as a Sniper (yeah there are still some of us around ) I can tell you that if anyone is OP it's the snipers haha, I've never lost a 1v1, and that's not an exaggeration that's a fact, don't worry sorcerers, I'll keep him off your backs, there's nothing a marauder can do against a sniper *roll to cover* *entrench* *turn marauder into paste*

Just read the part where you said that we have a strong buble... really? Even with the talent which adds 20% more "armor" to the buble, it goes down with 1 maybe 2 hits ( it takes around 2.5k damage ). That in you're opinion is a strong buble?

 

Yeah Bioware, listen to this guy. Sages/Sorc wear light armor, we go down faster than any class in the game. Stop asking for nerfs like a little cry baby.

 

You all go down at the same rate to a Gunnery Commando.

 

Snipers, Marauders, Juggs, BH's, really anything I get the drop on is done for.

 

I wouldn't say sorcs go down particularly fast, and armor has absolutely nothing to do with damage in PvP in my opinion.

 

I'm not complaining about Sorc bubble or anything, I think the talent could be buffed if only they moved it higher in the tree.

 

Ultimately I do agree with the OP. Make the good stuff at the top of the build.

Against an equally skilled Sorcerer specced 0/20/21 a Warrior will not win.

 

Thats great, be a defeatest....

 

Any Juggernaut their salt specs for unstoppable for 1v1s. Meaning 4 second of CC immunity+20 dmg reduction after force charge. So, we now have 4 seconds of burst fun time, Bubble breaks in 2 GCDs... Now, wait for it, force push. A 2 second stun. If you time it right, you can whack them while they are in the air for overload, so they have to wait. Now Saber/vicious throw while WALKING up to him. Force choke. Now this supposedly OP sorc is getting nervous. Juggernaut with a full rage bar and hes barely made a dent. This is where you see what hes made of. Throws some CC cheese, short term CC? wait. Long term? CC break. Hopefully he falls into my trap and runs away, blowing his CDs. Force charge. Did I even mention saber ward/disruption/endure pain yet.

 

DONE DEAL SORC BACK TO BASE

 

Thats obviously one way things can go. Depending on who gets the upper hand.

 

Also, don't try to downplay the importance of your dots and how they can screw up your rotation. Anyone that has an annihilation marauder will agree that they make a difference in a 1v1.

 

Obviously, you don't have a Sorcerer, so I'll let your ignorance slide.

 

In a 1v1 31 madness is superior, Its more mobile and has better single target CC. For team-play shenanigans the stun on overload is fun, but not necessary.