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Grit Teeth Tactical - Guardian/Juggernaut


Nickodemous

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I have been playing with this tactical in regs.

 

For those of you unaware, it is a tactical made by biochems and basically reduces the CD of your FD by two seconds every time you get hit (every second).

 

In the past, I have always saved my FD as an OH #### button but, find that I am now using it first. I have been using it at about 70-50% health and saving my stim and enure. This has been allowing me to take much more dmg which, in return, lets me proc FD on a much more regular basis. It has helped significantly.

 

My question is this, have any DPS Guardians/Juggs been using this in Ranked with any success? I was actually thinking about experimenting with the Undying set (20% dmg reduction with the use of blade blitz) or the Nimble Master set (100% speed boost while saber ward is active), with Grit Teeth, to see if I could take even more dmg.

 

Just wondering and would appreciate some input.

Edited by Nickodemous
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If you don't use grit teeth in ranked most people will assume that you are either throwing or really bad and will vote kick you.

 

I understand that, thanks for the contribution.

 

I have been using the Undying set this morning, feels quite "tanky" for a dps guardian. Loose a little in dmg but can take a beating. I have been averaging about 3.5-4.5 million dmg taken in matches.

Edited by Nickodemous
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I understand that, thanks for the contribution.

 

I have been using the Undying set this morning, feels quite "tanky" for a dps guardian. Loose a little in dmg but can take a beating. I have been averaging about 3.5-4.5 million dmg taken in matches.

 

I personally have never taken that set bonus. I looked it up. It seems decent for a defensive set bonus.

 

I would recommend the Force Bound set bonus, if you are truly interested in defensive jugg set bonuses. It is a 80% accuracy debuff applied to everyone that intimidating roar effects. Already, 80% is strong. Most accuracy debufs are 30%. Even sniper's diversion is only a 45% accuracy debuff. But, in addition, Force Bound works differently from most accuracy debufs because it effects yellow damage as well. That means, when Force Bounded, players can miss stuns, taunts, interrupts, and of course damage attacks as well. The nice part of this set bonus too is that it is a group defensive set bonus, not just a self defensive set bonus like the Undying Set. Force Bound is a crafted set bonus so if you have 80-100mill to waste it is an easy set to obtain from the GTN. If you are strapped for cash, it is much more difficult.

 

The Nimble Master set bonus also looks pretty interesting. I know a couple of friends that wanted to theory craft with that set bonus. In ranked, I question how effective it would be. In an all dps game as a vengeance jugg, it could probably be quite good for kiting. But in the end, arenas are about doing more damage and taking less damage. Utility based set bonuses and tacticals are sublesser to damage and defensive based set bonuses and tacticals because they do not directly lead to more damage output or better defensives. This was the exact reason that many operatives in ranked took the Tactician set bonus (a set bonus purely for damage) over the Debilitator set bonus (a set bonus that gives an extra hardstun and a lower CD on roll). Again, in a 4 dps match where as a dps jug you will most likely be kiting for your life, Nimble Master might be strong. If they don't go you however, or if your team needs the extra damage to get a kill, Nimble Master will probably hold you back.

Edited by septru
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The juggs I played with and against in this past week basically got bursted down in seconds literally, which made me question the usefulness of that tactical...

 

They don't really live to use the 2nd ED in 4 dps games, but I don't play Jugg so I don't really know. Devs made some change to ED ? I was better in 5.0 .

Edited by DavidAtkinson
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So... finally something that I actually know something about, even in ranked :D

 

Grit Teeth + Utility is really great in SR when you happen to get a healer + tank match. It can also be useful in either a tank or healer match, but you are not likely to get more than 1 extra go - YMMW of course. But forget about it in straight up DPS matches where you are the primary target. You will be dead before it comes back assuming the other side can play. For those matches you should use LW first and then GT in the second round, and hope they suck.

 

I have also tried Nimble master and I will not recommend it. Sure it can be fun to run away, but it's a one-trick pony and both mara, sins and opers will quickly catch up with you. It is simply a waste of DPS in the long run.

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So... finally something that I actually know something about, even in ranked :D

 

Grit Teeth + Utility is really great in SR when you happen to get a healer + tank match. It can also be useful in either a tank or healer match, but you are not likely to get more than 1 extra go - YMMW of course. But forget about it in straight up DPS matches where you are the primary target. You will be dead before it comes back assuming the other side can play. For those matches you should use LW first and then GT in the second round, and hope they suck.

 

I have also tried Nimble master and I will not recommend it. Sure it can be fun to run away, but it's a one-trick pony and both mara, sins and opers will quickly catch up with you. It is simply a waste of DPS in the long run.

 

I remember that in 4.0 Juggernauts were pretty good in pvp and ranked too ? That was like 5 years ago. I just cannot believe that to be true at all seeing in what state they are for years, and they clearly seem even worse now.

 

A lot of my recent games in solos on DM was about which team will lose it's juggearnaut in in the first 20 seconds first or it's PT . Everytime I get a jugg or pt dps on my team against a team that hasn't got one and is full of burst kings like opers and " I can vanish 8 times every round marauders " or sins, I know that it's going to be a hard carry.

 

As a marauder myself I admit that this vanish and constant chasing around has turned arenas into a super mario comedy... I would really love devs to remove these vanishing tacticals from solo ranked or make some adjustments. I am not a fan of this whole stealth thing at all.

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So... finally something that I actually know something about, even in ranked :D

 

Grit Teeth + Utility is really great in SR when you happen to get a healer + tank match. It can also be useful in either a tank or healer match, but you are not likely to get more than 1 extra go - YMMW of course. But forget about it in straight up DPS matches where you are the primary target. You will be dead before it comes back assuming the other side can play. For those matches you should use LW first and then GT in the second round, and hope they suck.

 

I have also tried Nimble master and I will not recommend it. Sure it can be fun to run away, but it's a one-trick pony and both mara, sins and opers will quickly catch up with you. It is simply a waste of DPS in the long run.

 

I agree, Grit teeth is only useful if u are able to stay up long enough for it to be beneficial. Also, Nimble master is garbage....you are exactly right....Mara's, sins, and ops can catch up quick.

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The juggs I played with and against in this past week basically got bursted down in seconds literally, which made me question the usefulness of that tactical...

 

They don't really live to use the 2nd ED in 4 dps games, but I don't play Jugg so I don't really know. Devs made some change to ED ? I was better in 5.0 .

 

That is what I am working on, being able to figure out various ways to be able to use the tactical a 2nd or 3rd time. The undying set is the most promising. I have only been working with this set in regs though so I difficult to determine if it really that beneficial.

 

There have been certain instances where it has worked out considerably well though. Reg arena matches I have been able to use the tactical 3-4 times while still being the top dmg dealer. I understand that regs is not comparable to ranked....but it was still promising. There was also an Alderaan match, I recall, in which I was able to go toe to toe with a jugg tank, op, and a merc at the middle node. Got the op and merc before the jugg got me.

 

In my recent experience in ranked, the reason a dps jugg/guardian consistently underperforms is because the class is waaaaaaay to easily chain locked and that other classes can close very quickly to finish them off. I am working on a new rotation with the undying set to prevent/slow this. Who knows if it will work....we will see.

Edited by Nickodemous
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I am working on a new rotation with the undying set to prevent/slow this. Who knows if it will work....we will see.

 

If you take this to ranked then please post your finding. I would happily trade of DPS for actual survival on my jugg, but it has never really been possible.

 

This is the undying set acording to vulkk:

  • (2) +2% Endurance
  • (4) After executing Blade Blitz / Mad Dash, you can 20% damage reduction for 6 seconds.

 

With mad dash being on a 45 sec cooldown, I doubt you can more than 1 extra use in straight up DPS matches, and 20% reduction is sorta meh.

 

The Force Bound set looks slightly more interesting:

  • (2) +2% Accuracy Rating
  • (4) Enemies affected by Awe / Intimidating Roar have greatly reduced accuracy for 6 seconds after Awe / Intimidating Roar wears off.

 

I could see this changing IR into a direct DCD, but once again I doubt it will prelong life noticeable.

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I could see this changing IR into a direct DCD, but once again I doubt it will prelong life noticeable.

 

Wat? There is a reason good players are using this set on their Marauders and Juggernauts. A total stop of damage income for 6 seconds can quite easily decide a game. Nevermind that game decider being on a relatively short cooldown.

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The Force Bound set looks slightly more interesting:

  • (2) +2% Accuracy Rating
  • (4) Enemies affected by Awe / Intimidating Roar have greatly reduced accuracy for 6 seconds after Awe / Intimidating Roar wears off.

 

I could see this changing IR into a direct DCD, but once again I doubt it will prelong life noticeable.

 

Wat? There is a reason good players are using this set on their Marauders and Juggernauts. A total stop of damage income for 6 seconds can quite easily decide a game. Nevermind that game decider being on a relatively short cooldown.

 

I guess it depends on what "greatly reduced" means. I hate when bioware describes things that way. I guess it lets them change the amount without having to change the description, but come on... is "greatly reduced accuracy" like a 30% debuff, or a 99% debuff? I'm guessing from what Evolixe responded, it's closer to the 99%?

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I guess it depends on what "greatly reduced" means. I hate when bioware describes things that way. I guess it lets them change the amount without having to change the description, but come on... is "greatly reduced accuracy" like a 30% debuff, or a 99% debuff? I'm guessing from what Evolixe responded, it's closer to the 99%?

 

80% yellow damage.

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The reason I chose the undying is because I believe it best fits my playstyle. Also, remember that I am trying to figure out how to maximize the tactical.

 

I am a big fan of the "cut loose" utility because not only do I use blade blitz as an escape, but as a set up for another force leap for the unremitting utility. (cut loose also reduces the cd for blade blitz by 10 sec)

 

I am not interested in always running for my life in ranked. My thought process is to blade blitz out and leap back into the fray with a 20% dmg reduction. I want to take reduced dmg, while dealing dmg, to determine if I can stay up long enough to use FD again, and again, and again.

 

To make it work, I have had to reevaluate how I use my other defensive CD's. As I have said, using FD first while saving my other defenses and stim seems to be working. I just have not had enough experience with it though to say that I have mastered it yet or that it even could work.

Edited by Nickodemous
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The reason I chose the undying is because I believe it best fits my playstyle. Also, remember that I am trying to figure out how to maximize the tactical.

 

I am a big fan of the "cut loose" utility because not only do I use blade blitz as an escape, but as a set up for another force leap for the unremitting utility. (cut loose also reduces the cd for blade blitz by 10 sec)

 

I am not interested in always running for my life in ranked. My thought process is to blade blitz out and leap back into the fray with a 20% dmg reduction. I want to take reduced dmg, while dealing dmg, to determine if I can stay up long enough to use FD again, and again, and again.

 

To make it work, I have had to reevaluate how I use my other defensive CD's. As I have said, using FD first while saving my other defenses and stim seems to be working. I just have not had enough experience with it though to say that I have mastered it yet or that it even could work.

 

The way of kiting you are describing is what some of the best jugg dps do in solo ranked. They leap in, maddassh out, leap back in, force push, jump out, friendly jump back in.... The guy I'm thinking about in particular is one of the best dps juggs in solo ranked. He is dedicated to making it work. And most of the time, against other good players, it does not work.

 

Don't be disappointed if it doesn't work. DPS juggs are in a really bad spot.

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The way of kiting you are describing is what some of the best jugg dps do in solo ranked. They leap in, maddassh out, leap back in, force push, jump out, friendly jump back in.... The guy I'm thinking about in particular is one of the best dps juggs in solo ranked. He is dedicated to making it work. And most of the time, against other good players, it does not work.

 

Don't be disappointed if it doesn't work. DPS juggs are in a really bad spot.

 

I will make it work....I really want to be in ranked this season.

 

I am on Maullin/Clandestu on SS....still working on gearing those toons. Come and kick my *** in regs….seriously....it helps.

 

On SF, Tyzor, who was an old pot5 toon, I don't play.....I am working this on the world renowned hated Pepe'Nero, bring it all....lets see how I perform. Bring it.....you all always do!

Edited by Nickodemous
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The way of kiting you are describing is what some of the best jugg dps do in solo ranked. They leap in, maddassh out, leap back in, force push, jump out, friendly jump back in.... The guy I'm thinking about in particular is one of the best dps juggs in solo ranked. He is dedicated to making it work. And most of the time, against other good players, it does not work.

 

Don't be disappointed if it doesn't work. DPS juggs are in a really bad spot.

 

But they were good in 4.0 if I remember correctly, yes ? Please refresh my memory with why they were so good...

 

Ever since 5.0 and now 6.0 they are rock bottom. Players who enter ranked as dps jugg get a lot of hate despite being geared and all . They still go down pretty fast.. if the other team plays like in the books.

 

See, this is one of the major problems with arenas and why ranked.. is in it's dead state. Only certain classes are viable and if you que with an " onpopular " weaker class, you'll experience hell .

Edited by DavidAtkinson
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See, this is one of the major problems with arenas and why ranked.. is in it's dead state. Only certain classes are viable and if you que with an " onpopular " weaker class, you'll experience hell .

 

Hah. Yes I certainly get my share of hatred queuing as a.... Hatred sin "KYS KYS KYS!" :p.

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But they were good in 4.0 if I remember correctly, yes ? Please refresh my memory with why they were so good...

 

Ever since 5.0 and now 6.0 they are rock bottom. Players who enter ranked as dps jugg get a lot of hate despite being geared and all . They still go down pretty fast.. if the other team plays like in the books.

 

See, this is one of the major problems with arenas and why ranked.. is in it's dead state. Only certain classes are viable and if you que with an " onpopular " weaker class, you'll experience hell .

 

Jugg was ok in 5.10. They weren't the best but they were average. I don't how juggs were in 4.0 sorry.

 

To be fair in 6.0 most classes are viable. The only exceptions are hatred sin, madness sorc, and jugg. Class balance is doing decently fine.

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Ok, so......I have been playing on and off the past couple of nights. The Undying set seems to perform decently vs melee but way underperforms against ranged classes, especially sorcs. Any type of dot/bleed seems to ignore the 20% dmg reduction.

 

Also, the set , imo, needs a bit of a tweak. Either a slight increase in dmg reduction or and extension of the 6 sec to maybe 8-10. Against melee classes, I could get the tactical to proc several times in a fight but was completely burned down by ranged, especially if there were more than two of them banging on me.

 

Next step is to rework my mods....thinking about going to B's vs the R's. I just don't want to give up much more dmg production to increase my HP's. I will see if it too dramatic of a drop.

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Ok, so......I have been playing on and off the past couple of nights. The Undying set seems to perform decently vs melee but way underperforms against ranged classes, especially sorcs. Any type of dot/bleed seems to ignore the 20% dmg reduction.

 

Now that you mention it, I've been getting the feeling that furious power's damage boost, or whatever it does because the devs were so damn vague, doesn't provide any visible change in the numbers a specific attack does when it consumes a power stack. It's similar to how your Undying DR isn't seeming to have any effect on dots when it should. I'm thinking either this is just a sign of the devs' endemic problems with scaling in this expansion, or the boost is capped for most stuff, or in your case, the description of what abilities do is nothing at all what happens in practice. A lot of things need to be tweaked or have a total overhaul from what was done at first.

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I gave the Force Bound set a spin, and it am not seeing change in incoming damage. Even when I catch 3 people with IR I am, I am still taking wild damage. Even more so, my damage is absolutely terrible now, basically cut in half. Back to Decent for me.
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