Why PvP in the first place if you dont care about gear? That just seems like masochistic self torture to me. And it has nothing to do with who pays your sub or PC or whatnot. Its about know what is there that the game provides you.

 

Also, that level 40 "PvP gear" is not PvP gear. Its just undergeared gear at level 50, you would probably do better in level 50 greens. And I would hate to be on the opposing team if a 2 hit wonder manages to score that many times against us. Guess the other side just really sucked or had even more people in level 40 "PvP gear".

 

#1 I do care about gear in the fact that I eventually grinded out to get like 80% Champion Gear and 20% Battlemaster Gear. I just don't care about it enough for it to hold me back from playing even if I have standard L50 PvE gear.

 

#2 I figured that out which is why I eventually got some Orange Gear and put in L50 mods and from there I grinded til I got some Centurion Gear and grinded til I got some Champion Gear etc....

 

 

 

It takes a pretty selfish person to put the 7 other people in your group willingly at a disadvantage. Yet me not wanting people placing their teams at a disadvantage is elitist? I guess putting the good of the group ahead of the individual is the new elitism, who knew?

 

So how the hell is a fresh Level 50 supposed to get PvP gear? Remember, I am talking about pre 1.2 where you could NOT buy Centurion Armor, you had to grind for it. So given that, how am I supposed to get Level 50 gear....without don't WZs? Because I am L50, I am stuck in the L50 Bracket?

 

Seriously, I play to win, but I also play to have fun. I am not going to stress over the fact that I don't have full PvP gear. I pay for the game as well so I should be able to enjoy it the way I want do enjoy it.

 

Again, pay my monthly subscription and I'll play exactly the way you tell me to.

The ppl that do bother to buy a recruit set should have someone to stomp.

I agree about the elitism, especially casuals and new players suffer by this. Wow is full of such people and so far the forum here is full of them aswell, my server luckily isnt so far.

 

But I also understand that in pvp not everyone should meet everyone. I currently have about 450 exp - I still die too quick without a healer and someone with 0 prolly dies in 2 hits.

 

There is no competition right now at MMO´s, as everyone plays everyone. We used to play tournaments at wow years ago and it was awesome. Every team had its 2-3 healers, 1 tank, some ranged and some melee - it was awesome and at those tournaments players also have the same equip as stated in the rules.

 

Something like that on official MMO servers would definately help pvp, atleast people should have a free pvp set when they start, which is slightly worse than the high end. But we also need a queue for healers, I end up having none in my teams, which is a big issue.

Everyone wanne dps in pvp, I dont get it why. I always tank or healer - at Tor I went for tanking, but I will also lvl a new healer soon, its just frustrating :s

 

There is something like that on official servers, its called arenas in WoW and they suck. WZs here ware very close to it with their limited 8vs8 format.

 

Queues for healers would not work, it would end up giving everyone hour long queues just because they chose to play dps. The system is fine as it is. Or better yet, make a system like GW2, where there are no real healer classes. Problem solved.

#1 I do care about gear in the fact that I eventually grinded out to get like 80% Champion Gear and 20% Battlemaster Gear. I just don't care about it enough for it to hold me back from playing even if I have standard L50 PvE gear.

 

#2 I figured that out which is why I eventually got some Orange Gear and put in L50 mods and from there I grinded til I got some Centurion Gear and grinded til I got some Champion Gear etc....

 

So how the hell is a fresh Level 50 supposed to get PvP gear? Remember, I am talking about pre 1.2 where you could NOT buy Centurion Armor, you had to grind for it. So given that, how am I supposed to get Level 50 gear....without don't WZs? Because I am L50, I am stuck in the L50 Bracket?

 

Seriously, I play to win, but I also play to have fun. I am not going to stress over the fact that I don't have full PvP gear. I pay for the game as well so I should be able to enjoy it the way I want do enjoy it.

 

Again, pay my monthly subscription and I'll play exactly the way you tell me to.

 

Again we are talking about recruit gear in this thread, not pre 1.2.

So how the hell is a fresh Level 50 supposed to get PvP gear? Remember, I am talking about pre 1.2 where you could NOT buy Centurion Armor, you had to grind for it. So given that, how am I supposed to get Level 50 gear....without don't WZs? Because I am L50, I am stuck in the L50 Bracket?

 

Seriously, I play to win, but I also play to have fun. I am not going to stress over the fact that I don't have full PvP gear. I pay for the game as well so I should be able to enjoy it the way I want do enjoy it.

 

Again, pay my monthly subscription and I'll play exactly the way you tell me to.

 

Sigh, this discussion is about post-1.2. Pre-1.2 you obviously had no options but to take you're lumps. Now there is an option, the recruit set. That is what we are discussing.

You say BM is only 4% higher in expertise now compared to pre patch. You couldnt reach nearly close to that amount in BM gear pre patch near 15% was the absolute max in a full gear. They buffed the benefit from expertise and they buffed the actual expertise rating on BM gear. You need to read the lists down on the dulfy page.

 

Full set of BM now compared to old according to that site if you actually read beyond the first 2 lines.

 

Old: 700 (varies with around 5 points depending on class) 14.89%

New: 1164, 22.23%

Difference: 7.3% roughly

 

Those 4% you talk about, the actual 4.03 are between BM and recruit. And I quote your own link.

 

 

 

No matter how you like to see it, you are still several % behind a guy in PvP gear. They get a flat damage boost and a flat damage reduction.

 

Recruit: D18.20, DR15.40, H9.99 %

BM: D22.23, DR18.18, H12.27 %

 

Its no wonder people sat on 12% because the DR was too steep to actually get to 14% without sacrificing too much damage. But that was 2%, skipping pieces now reduces your expertise severly compared to before. Because the % is much higher. As I said, difference between old and new BM expertise is 7% units. That is roughly a 33% increase in expertise on the set compared to pre 1.2

 

Now its equstionable to give up 2+ pieces just to get a set bonus from PvP, because you lose too much expertise. The main stats are also a bit lower BM old vs BM new, but sec. stats like power and crit make up for it.

 

And again, the thing that cant be said enough, you cant test expertise healing by just healing yourself out of combat, that isnt how expertise works.

 

Here is one for you.

BW: "I am going to give you $100! Here, take this" (gives each of us 1 bill, it has a picture of GW on it).

You: "Sweet... $100!"

Me: "Who said that is $100?":rolleyes:

 

It won't be the first or last time this community has been misled! Stop being naive..

 

Want more evidence? Ok. I did this last night just for you...

Here is me on fleet going into a WZ.

Notice:

Tooptip value on Deliverance 3132-3274

Time on the clock: 9:59PM CST

7.52% "HEALING BOOST"

http://s1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh590/ldogg1579/?action=view&current=SWTORFLEET1.png

 

 

According to you and others the boost should give me heals 3355K (tooltip min*1.0752)MINIMUM. Right?

 

Time: 10:01PM CST

Behind the cage on NC self-healed, same tooltip value.....Oops didn't hit 3.3k on this one...

http://s1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh590/ldogg1579/?action=view&current=SWTORNCCAGE.png

 

Time: 10:07PM CST

At the turret on Novarre Coast... In actual combat!!, Oops didn't hit it that time...

http://s1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh590/ldogg1579/?action=view&current=SWTORNCTURRET1.png

 

Time: 10:08PM CST

At the turret on Novarre Coast 1 min later... In actual combat!!, Oops didn't hit it that time...

http://s1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh590/ldogg1579/?action=view&current=SWTORNCTURRET2.png

 

Time: 10:10PM CST

Behind the cage on VS.......... Oops didn't hit it that time...

http://s1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh590/ldogg1579/?action=view&current=SWTORVS1.png

 

Time: 10:11PM CST

Lets try it again!!..................Oops didn't hit it that time...ARRRGGGGGHHHH!!! Can this really be?

http://s1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh590/ldogg1579/?action=view&current=SWTORVS2.png

 

 

 

Time: 9:33PM CST

This is the first SS I did last night.. I'm at the last door @ voidstar, I nerfed my health using noble sacrifice 4x, sat there(the imps were horribad) and healed myself... look at what number registered...

 

http://s1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh590/ldogg1579/?action=view&current=SWTORNCTURRET1.png#!oZZ7QQcurrentZZhttp%3A%2F%2Fs1253.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fhh590%2Fldogg1579%2F%3Faction%3Dview%26current%3DSWTORVSJOKE.png

 

 

effig 8HP difference... I named this photo VSJOKE for a reason. Where is expertise there huh? I know what your next illogical point will be. I'll stop you right now, the trauma debuff will automatically kick in if I am in combat, and my healing will be dictated based on that alone. Do you want me to try a heal while I am in combat? I will, because if you account for the debuff my heals will fall in the correct range according to my tooltip(as it relates to the 30% debuff), once again making expertise benefits questionable AT BEST from a damage perspective. And heals? LULZ, do you you need anymore proof?

 

 

Let's Review:

1. In the grand scheme of things, expertise was deficient pre 1.2, so they buffed it because it was clear that PvE gear was better. The armor slot was fudged up tier to tier, so they added more expertise to the mod/enh slot, but then did the idiotic thing of unlocking the armor slot (SMH). Making the choice in set bonus moot.

2. Main and Secondary matters in PvP, so if the percent gain of expertise does not outpace the percent loss to main or vital secondary(POW/FORCE/TECH), you are not really "gaining" anything.

3. Even you do outpace the above, mathematical and visual evidence makes it highly probable that expertise only affects individual players' bonus stat.

4. If you have 0EXP but Rakata/Columi/Tio gear, you are fine because your MAIN/POW/END/CRIT/SURGE are SIGNIFCANTLY HIGHER than wearing recruit gear, even with 18%/15%/12% added...

5. At best, recruit gear is on par with oranges with L49/50 epics.

 

You have to understand all of this before you can speak competently on whether a person should be allowed into a WZ with little to no expertise. If you check their gear and see lvl 45 blue mods, craptacular ear pieces, no matrix cube, then you have SOME right to be irritated. This thread should be catered to those people, not people like me who understand expertise don't mean much (if anything) in the grand scheme of things..

Im not typically a war zone nazi, but yesterday I had to yell at a guy that kept queuing that had 100 Expertise. Really? 100 Expertise? You can get more then that pre-50.

 

I honestly couldnt imagine taking that *** whipping that he was likely getting. Do it for the kids man, DO IT FOR THE CHILDREN!!!!!

Here is one for you.

BW: "I am going to give you $100! Here, take this" (gives each of us 1 bill, it has a picture of GW on it).

You: "Sweet... $100!"

Me: "Who said that is $100?":rolleyes:

 

It won't be the first or last time this community has been misled! Stop being naive..

 

Want more evidence? Ok. I did this last night just for you...

Here is me on fleet going into a WZ.

Notice:

Tooptip value on Deliverance 3132-3274

Time on the clock: 9:59PM CST

7.52% "HEALING BOOST"

http://s1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh590/ldogg1579/?action=view&current=SWTORFLEET1.png

 

 

According to you and others the boost should give me heals 3355K (tooltip min*1.0752)MINIMUM. Right?

 

Time: 10:01PM CST

Behind the cage on NC self-healed, same tooltip value.....Oops didn't hit 3.3k on this one...

http://s1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh590/ldogg1579/?action=view&current=SWTORNCCAGE.png

 

Time: 10:07PM CST

At the turret on Novarre Coast... In actual combat!!, Oops didn't hit it that time...

http://s1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh590/ldogg1579/?action=view&current=SWTORNCTURRET1.png

 

Time: 10:08PM CST

At the turret on Novarre Coast 1 min later... In actual combat!!, Oops didn't hit it that time...

http://s1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh590/ldogg1579/?action=view&current=SWTORNCTURRET2.png

 

Time: 10:10PM CST

Behind the cage on VS.......... Oops didn't hit it that time...

http://s1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh590/ldogg1579/?action=view&current=SWTORVS1.png

 

Time: 10:11PM CST

Lets try it again!!..................Oops didn't hit it that time...ARRRGGGGGHHHH!!! Can this really be?

http://s1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh590/ldogg1579/?action=view&current=SWTORVS2.png

 

 

 

Time: 9:33PM CST

This is the first SS I did last night.. I'm at the last door @ voidstar, I nerfed my health using noble sacrifice 4x, sat there(the imps were horribad) and healed myself... look at what number registered...

 

http://s1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh590/ldogg1579/?action=view&current=SWTORNCTURRET1.png#!oZZ7QQcurrentZZhttp%3A%2F%2Fs1253.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fhh590%2Fldogg1579%2F%3Faction%3Dview%26current%3DSWTORVSJOKE.png

 

 

effig 8HP difference... I named this photo VSJOKE for a reason. Where is expertise there huh? I know what your next illogical point will be. I'll stop you right now, the trauma debuff will automatically kick in if I am in combat, and my healing will be dictated based on that alone. Do you want me to try a heal while I am in combat? I will, because if you account for the debuff my heals will fall in the correct range according to my tooltip(as it relates to the 30% debuff), once again making expertise benefits questionable AT BEST from a damage perspective. And heals? LULZ, do you you need anymore proof?

 

 

Let's Review:

1. In the grand scheme of things, expertise was deficient pre 1.2, so they buffed it because it was clear that PvE gear was better. The armor slot was fudged up tier to tier, so they added more expertise to the mod/enh slot, but then did the idiotic thing of unlocking the armor slot (SMH). Making the choice in set bonus moot.

2. Main and Secondary matters in PvP, so if the percent gain of expertise does not outpace the percent loss to main or vital secondary(POW/FORCE/TECH), you are not really "gaining" anything.

3. Even you do outpace the above, mathematical and visual evidence makes it highly probable that expertise only affects individual players' bonus stat.

4. If you have 0EXP but Rakata/Columi/Tio gear, you are fine because your MAIN/POW/END/CRIT/SURGE are SIGNIFCANTLY HIGHER than wearing recruit gear, even with 18%/15%/12% added...

5. At best, recruit gear is on par with oranges with L49/50 epics.

 

You have to understand all of this before you can speak competently on whether a person should be allowed into a WZ with little to no expertise. If you check their gear and see lvl 45 blue mods, craptacular ear pieces, no matrix cube, then you have SOME right to be irritated. This thread should be catered to those people, not people like me who understand expertise don't mean much (if anything) in the grand scheme of things..

 

Please stop derailing this thread. Start your own if you want to discuss your topic.

Then go do your dailies. One day worth of dailies... at the most two if you skip the heroics will EASILY net you enough credits to buy the entire recruit set. There is no excuse to be pvping with your crap green gear you got from leveling. Also how are fresh 50's so broke? I dinged 50 and had 800k in my bag. I just don't get it. I'm on my 3rd 50 right now, haven't sent him anything from my main and he's lvl 43 with 400k in his bag right now. Credits come easily in this game.

 

This is a good point. It will take a fresh 50 longer then 2 days to acquire the needed 320K to purchase a full set of gear, but overall, it won't take that long. Even a casual player can get up 320K in about a 7 days of not really trying that hard but sticking to the dailies. Overall, you can enter a warzone with at least half a set in a few days. I think it's a matter of education.

 

Suggestion: Offer to run some people though their dailies so they can get geared up. If I see them under-geared and under performing I'll ask if they need help with their dailies. They could just be ignorant of how easy it is to get some gear to be competitive.

Edited May 11, 2012 by Mindsplitter

Here is one for you.

BW: "I am going to give you $100! Here, take this" (gives each of us 1 bill, it has a picture of GW on it).

You: "Sweet... $100!"

Me: "Who said that is $100?":rolleyes:

 

It won't be the first or last time this community has been misled! Stop being naive..

 

Want more evidence? Ok. I did this last night just for you...

Here is me on fleet going into a WZ.

Notice:

Tooptip value on Deliverance 3132-3274

Time on the clock: 9:59PM CST

7.52% "HEALING BOOST"

http://s1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh590/ldogg1579/?action=view&current=SWTORFLEET1.png

 

 

According to you and others the boost should give me heals 3355K (tooltip min*1.0752)MINIMUM. Right?

 

Time: 10:01PM CST

Behind the cage on NC self-healed, same tooltip value.....Oops didn't hit 3.3k on this one...

http://s1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh590/ldogg1579/?action=view&current=SWTORNCCAGE.png

 

Time: 10:07PM CST

At the turret on Novarre Coast... In actual combat!!, Oops didn't hit it that time...

http://s1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh590/ldogg1579/?action=view&current=SWTORNCTURRET1.png

 

Time: 10:08PM CST

At the turret on Novarre Coast 1 min later... In actual combat!!, Oops didn't hit it that time...

http://s1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh590/ldogg1579/?action=view&current=SWTORNCTURRET2.png

 

Time: 10:10PM CST

Behind the cage on VS.......... Oops didn't hit it that time...

http://s1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh590/ldogg1579/?action=view&current=SWTORVS1.png

 

Time: 10:11PM CST

Lets try it again!!..................Oops didn't hit it that time...ARRRGGGGGHHHH!!! Can this really be?

http://s1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh590/ldogg1579/?action=view&current=SWTORVS2.png

 

 

 

Time: 9:33PM CST

This is the first SS I did last night.. I'm at the last door @ voidstar, I nerfed my health using noble sacrifice 4x, sat there(the imps were horribad) and healed myself... look at what number registered...

 

http://s1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh590/ldogg1579/?action=view&current=SWTORNCTURRET1.png#!oZZ7QQcurrentZZhttp%3A%2F%2Fs1253.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fhh590%2Fldogg1579%2F%3Faction%3Dview%26current%3DSWTORVSJOKE.png

 

 

effig 8HP difference... I named this photo VSJOKE for a reason. Where is expertise there huh? I know what your next illogical point will be. I'll stop you right now, the trauma debuff will automatically kick in if I am in combat, and my healing will be dictated based on that alone. Do you want me to try a heal while I am in combat? I will, because if you account for the debuff my heals will fall in the correct range according to my tooltip(as it relates to the 30% debuff), once again making expertise benefits questionable AT BEST from a damage perspective. And heals? LULZ, do you you need anymore proof?

 

 

Let's Review:

1. In the grand scheme of things, expertise was deficient pre 1.2, so they buffed it because it was clear that PvE gear was better. The armor slot was fudged up tier to tier, so they added more expertise to the mod/enh slot, but then did the idiotic thing of unlocking the armor slot (SMH). Making the choice in set bonus moot.

2. Main and Secondary matters in PvP, so if the percent gain of expertise does not outpace the percent loss to main or vital secondary(POW/FORCE/TECH), you are not really "gaining" anything.

3. Even you do outpace the above, mathematical and visual evidence makes it highly probable that expertise only affects individual players' bonus stat.

4. If you have 0EXP but Rakata/Columi/Tio gear, you are fine because your MAIN/POW/END/CRIT/SURGE are SIGNIFCANTLY HIGHER than wearing recruit gear, even with 18%/15%/12% added...

5. At best, recruit gear is on par with oranges with L49/50 epics.

 

You have to understand all of this before you can speak competently on whether a person should be allowed into a WZ with little to no expertise. If you check their gear and see lvl 45 blue mods, craptacular ear pieces, no matrix cube, then you have SOME right to be irritated. This thread should be catered to those people, not people like me who understand expertise don't mean much (if anything) in the grand scheme of things..

 

You arent in-combat on any of your screenshots. You know how I can tell? You have NO trauma debuff. I get the exact same result as I mentioned in an above post. Flagged on fleet, unflagged on fleet and in the WZ spawn zone/out of combat.

 

With trauma end expertise the trauma would impact you with 30% - x% from expertise resulting in y% trauma debuff.

 

example: 12% expertise = 18% trauma debuff.

Edited May 11, 2012 by SneakyErvin

It's also disrespectful to think that people who don't buy the recruit gear are actually trying to hurt their teammates... I'm not going to lie, when I hit 50 I had barely 80k left after buying my skills for my rotation... Recruit gear is pretty expensive for a freshly hit 50. And keep in mind even if you waited 30 minutes to an hour to days, that person has waited JUST AS LONG AS YOU, and not only that, you were in the exact same boat as he or she was.

 

i hit 50 bought everything and still had 700k to spend on recruit gear. face it people that don't buy the gear are LAZY. they find every excuse you can think of why they can't buy it or wont. yet they will enter a 50warzone wearing gear that has not been changed since level 40 and they are sporting a whoppng 10k to 12k hp.

 

its takes maybe 3 hours of questing to make 400k in this game on the higher planets. stop being LAZY and do something in the game instead of crying that everything takes too long. if this game takes too much time then rethink why you bought it cause you obviously don't belong playing it.

 

hell if the idiots were smart they would max out comms before they hit 50 and be able to buy a few BM pieces right away. that would cut down on the cost of recruit.

You don't need to buy recruitment gear. I hung around outlaw's den while PVP queuing at level 49. In the time it took me to level from 75% of 49 to 50 I had main and offspec sets from recruit gear. A piece (suited to your class but random on spec) is in every other chest more or less and there are 4 chests that respawn every 30 minutes or so. I also had 2000 comms this way and thus the battlemaster weapon and relic within 10 minutes of hitting 50. Then I popped an expertise crystal I got off Rhakghoul event and magically had a pretty competitive set. Edited May 11, 2012 by dcgregorya

You arent in-combat on any of your screenshots. You know how I can tell? You have NO trauma debuff. I get the exact same result as I mentioned in an above post. Flagged on fleet, unflagged on fleet and in the WZ spawn zone/out of combat.

 

With trauma end expertise the trauma would impact you with 30% - x% from expertise resulting in y% trauma debuff.

 

example: 12% expertise = 18% trauma debuff.

 

Listen to yourself. No shiz im not "in-combat", but you tried to debunk everything I have said by "Ship do you mean at fleet, you are not in PvP". Now I offer proof that I am in WZ and its "oh you are not in combat". All excuses littered with irrelevancy. Are you seriously suggesting that the exp formula turns "on and off" while in a WZ? Can you show me where ANY of your ideas are correct? NO YOU CAN'T, it hurts to have to prove people wrong when the answer is sitting there staring them in the face, but I am going to do a solid for you tonight when I get on.

 

I will show you both. One "in-combat" with the debuff on and one "out of combat" with the debuff still on. So how about you start it off and tell everyone based on my min tool tip value of 3132 and 7.52% bonus, what minimum value my heal will have? I already know what will happen. Do you want me to post my number first?

 

 

 

Ndiggy: Let me refresh ur memory.....

Its bad enough I have to wait 30 minutes to an hour just to get in a Warzone. But once I get in I get stuck with people who can't even be bothered to buy the Recruit set before they queue up for a WZ and then get steamrolled and are nothing but a liability to the team. Make it so you have to have at least the Recruit set before you can queue up for WZs.

 

Try revising this statement before you think I need to go elsewhere with my ideas; as ALL of my posts have been predicated on the fact that recruit gear means very little in the grand scheme of PvP (as a recruit gear player gets steamrolled just as easily). I am here to speak up for the players who get ridiculed in game by other players because of said "little or no EXP". I use math and game observations to debunk the EXP myth. I am your "ANTI-"

 

So before you insist that recruit or exp minimums are needed, understand what I have been saying, then say:

 

"If you are in LVL 47 greens, buy the recruit gear..."

Listen to yourself. No shiz im not "in-combat", but you tried to debunk everything I have said by "Ship do you mean at fleet, you are not in PvP". Now I offer proof that I am in WZ and its "oh you are not in combat". All excuses littered with irrelevancy. Are you seriously suggesting that the exp formula turns "on and off" while in a WZ? Can you show me where ANY of your ideas are correct? NO YOU CAN'T, it hurts to have to prove people wrong when the answer is sitting there staring them in the face, but I am going to do a solid for you tonight when I get on.

 

I will show you both. One "in-combat" with the debuff on and one "out of combat" with the debuff still on. So how about you start it off and tell everyone based on my min tool tip value of 3132 and 7.52% bonus, what minimum value my heal will have? I already know what will happen. Do you want me to post my number first?

 

I've said time and time again before I asked you what ship you ment that you need to be in active combat for expertise to kick in. Its a backguard mechanic to avoid exploits in PvE by just flagging yourself. Its pretty much explains itself in the PvP tooltip. It works just like damage buffs through skills and healing debuffs through skills. Like deadly throw and taunt, same exact mechanic really.

 

Your heal in active combat would be. A - (30 - x)% = y. Where A is your ability, 30 is trauma, x expertise% and y total heal after calculation.

 

2000 - (30% - 12% = 18%) = 1640. This would be 1400 without exp.

 

 

Flagged on fleet.

Unflagged on fleet.

In waiting area of a WZ.

 

All results came out the same.

 

Healing avarage stated on ability tooltip: 2836-2978

 

Biggest three heals per situation during 25 heals.

Flagged on fleet: 2980, 3000, 2983. Crit: 5200, 5208, 5194.

Unflagged on fleet: 2996, 3006, 3000. Crit: 5189, 5206, 5198.

Denova spawn: 2984, 2992, 3002. Crit: 5186, 5202, 5209.

 

All was tested with the exact same buffs during all tries.

 

As I posted earlier. I can make some proper PvP example of those too by just adding expertise and trauma.

With 12% expertise:

2980 becomes 2444, 3000 becomes 2460.

 

Without expertise:

2980 becomes 2086 and 3000 becomes 2100.

 

Thats quite a difference in the end result, expertise vs no expertise. Plus the guy that heals for more will also abs alot more than you vs everything, uluding elemental/internal attacks which you have 0 defense agains in return.

 

You need alot of main stats and secondary stats to make up for those 3 expertise % buffs.

 

To go even with someone wearing PvP gear you need DPS stats to offset their DR, endurance to handle the harder hits he gives you aswell as stats to make up for the full 30% trauma. PvP is never a 1vs1 scenario, you should go equipped ready to face anything, not just people in recruit gear. If you go up against a BM wearing rakata or higher you will get smoked unless he is really bad. You will probably get smoked most of the times facing a recruit aswell. Expertise just brings that much of a buff for PvP, its designed to do so, to cancel out the PvE heroes that try to act tough.

 

edit: Forgot to include your minimum value. Would rather try max, but I'll just use the one you used.

 

"...3132 and 7.52% bonus..."

 

3132 x 77.5% = 2427.3

Edited May 11, 2012 by SneakyErvin

I put on my sad face when I see new players that are not in recruit gear at least. But I hold my annoyance in check and try to let them know in nice terms and a polite manner that they should really invest into a set. Heck I even offer to buy them a piece or 2 if they are low on funds to get them started. Main thing I try to stress is that pvp is like pve in a certain respect your group suffers if your a liablity to your team. Seems to work but the main thing is I dont get rude with them cause we all have been in that postion at least once in our pvp life.

Its bad enough I have to wait 30 minutes to an hour just to get in a Warzone. But once I get in I get stuck with people who can't even be bothered to buy the Recruit set before they queue up for a WZ and then get steamrolled and are nothing but a liability to the team. Make it so you have to have at least the Recruit set before you can queue up for WZs.

 

LOL.

 

You have 2 problems.

 

1. Your server population. You can blame BW for that.

 

2. Gear based PVP. Hate it or love it, you can blame BW for that too.

 

You can always wait longer by filtering entry or you can quit WZ in protest. Either way, game design ruins your current online experience.

i hit 50 bought everything and still had 700k to spend on recruit gear. face it people that don't buy the gear are LAZY.

 

No, this isn't quite right. People who don't buy the gear have no idea that entering a WZ with zero Expertise means that they will be totally and immediately destroyed.

 

They either need to make Recruit Gear a requirement to queue, or they need to significantly reduce the impact/amount of Expertise on higher-tier PvP gear. Because right now, there's nothing to even hint at the fact that queueing for a WZ will be instant death unless you do a Google search beforehand.

I agree with the title, not read the rest.

It takes a pretty selfish person to put the 7 other people in your group willingly at a disadvantage. Yet me not wanting people placing their teams at a disadvantage is elitist? I guess putting the good of the group ahead of the individual is the new elitism, who knew?

 

Coming back to the analogy of sports ... someone said earlier "a football coach would not let you play on his team without cleats ..." yes, but folks do play without cleats at the park with their friends. The current problem with PvP WZ is not that some people "play without cleats" but that top club team players (your 4 man premade) are often paired up with the "no cleats" folks. It would be fine if we had full teams of undergeared folks playing other full teams of undergeared folks.

 

BioWare is likely to fix this (ranked WZ preseason and later, full release) before human nature changes.

I think alot of them just may not know any better being in 1-49 pvp most of the time and not haveing the same gear requirments may make them ignorant of level 50 pvp mechanics.

 

Maybe a starter pvp quest should be put in for a game played option like the game used to have when you first went into pvp with a pvp associated tool tip that pops explaining the concept. The reward should be a token they trade in at recruit vendor for 1 piece of recruit gear that way they get 1 piece of gear and are prompted to look for the recruit vendor to get the reward. If they are like most players they will browse the gear and the stats which should make it pretty clear what the benifits of pvp gear are heck add anouther help pop screen at the vendor to reinforce the idea again.

Try revising this statement before you think I need to go elsewhere with my ideas; as ALL of my posts have been predicated on the fact that recruit gear means very little in the grand scheme of PvP (as a recruit gear player gets steamrolled just as easily). I am here to speak up for the players who get ridiculed in game by other players because of said "little or no EXP". I use math and game observations to debunk the EXP myth. I am your "ANTI-"

 

So before you insist that recruit or exp minimums are needed, understand what I have been saying, then say:

 

"If you are in LVL 47 greens, buy the recruit gear..."

 

Look, I don't even have to do math to show you you're wrong. If you were right you'd see Rakata gear on everyone in pvp, and outside of tanks you just don't see that because the lack of expertise makes that big of a difference.

Look, I don't even have to do math to show you you're wrong. If you were right you'd see Rakata gear on everyone in pvp, and outside of tanks you just don't see that because the lack of expertise makes that big of a difference.

 

Because some people are still in the dark. I know what the response will be, so just hold on to it until tonight...

Coming back to the analogy of sports ... someone said earlier "a football coach would not let you play on his team without cleats ..." yes, but folks do play without cleats at the park with their friends. The current problem with PvP WZ is not that some people "play without cleats" but that top club team players (your 4 man premade) are often paired up with the "no cleats" folks. It would be fine if we had full teams of undergeared folks playing other full teams of undergeared folks.

 

BioWare is likely to fix this (ranked WZ preseason and later, full release) before human nature changes.

 

Agree. Frankly, I'd rather just die alot then pay the credits for a set I don't even want. Having a 65 bm pre-1.2 gs would for the most part didn't get the comm's boost till around 55 I don't think I care. Going to get facerolled? Oh well. I am not running pve to make money pvp. I'll buy what I can afford.

 

if you want to subsidize me do it. I don't care. I just don't expect to win. Not like I expect to win pugging anways.

Look, I don't even have to do math to show you you're wrong. If you were right you'd see Rakata gear on everyone in pvp, and outside of tanks you just don't see that because the lack of expertise makes that big of a difference.

 

He wont understand. Even with simple mathematical examples he still doesnt get it. He probably doesnt read even half of a post before replying, or the sites he link. He just links wildly and have no clue what it says.

 

edit: Forgot to include your minimum value. Would rather try max, but I'll just use the one you used.

 

"...3132 and 7.52% bonus..."

 

3132 x 77.5% = 2427.3

 

OR

 

A: 3132*1.0752= 3367 -(3367*.3(1010))= 2357

or calc trama first then exp, but the number is the same in the end. So I am going to be a nice guy and give you that number, albeit not much of a difference.

 

 

Here is my floor number:

3132*.7= 2192 +(1.0752*586(HealBonus)- 586)=2236

 

 

We shall see tonight.................