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Was he right ?

DavidAtkinson's Avatar


DavidAtkinson
03.02.2019 , 03:41 AM | #1
Hello folks

Original post by tehrealdealz 05.05.2012 , 03:43 AM

" Having played WoW for 5+ years now, I can say that BW is right in refusing to implement any kind of arena into this game. Arenas were the worst thing to happen to WoW. If I recall correctly they are what lead to classes getting buffed/nerfed over and over again just for the sake of balance and in the end of I recall one the devs said that "Arenas were the worst idea they ever implemented in WoW". Also but most importantly arenas promote the whole "look at my rating, i'm better than you" mentality which just isnt needed in a new MMO like swtor.

In fact, and I know I can speak for I would say 75% of the player base when I say this, the whole reason I left WoW was because of the whole elitism that goes with the game nowadays. I wanted to escape that. Basically if your rating sucks, your considered a "baddie" and not worthy etc etc. Sorry but no i hope BW never implements arenas in this game as we dont need those kind of players here in swtor. If you want arena, then what you need to do is go back to WoW. Ranked WZs are an awesome idea when they do get implemented and imho and I know I can speak for alot of players when I say this, are going to be awesome. I know im looking forward to it. "


thread http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=444696

Was he right ?

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
03.02.2019 , 03:55 AM | #2
there's some merit to his discussion of elitism as it relates to rating. that's true of any competitive "arena." (incidentally, it also applies to guild progression, in which most guilds are considered "baddies" too!).

anyway, I'd like to point out that everything he says has nothing to do with arenas and everything to do with rated competition. rated WZs come with all the same issues.
Krack

Lhancelot's Avatar


Lhancelot
03.02.2019 , 09:39 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by DavidAtkinson View Post
Hello folks

Original post by tehrealdealz 05.05.2012 , 03:43 AM

Having played WoW for 5+ years now, I can say that BW is right in refusing to implement any kind of arena into this game. Arenas were the worst thing to happen to WoW. If I recall correctly they are what lead to classes getting buffed/nerfed over and over again just for the sake of balance and in the end of I recall one the devs said that "Arenas were the worst idea they ever implemented in WoW". Also but most importantly arenas promote the whole "look at my rating, i'm better than you" mentality which just isnt needed in a new MMO like swtor.

In fact, and I know I can speak for I would say 75% of the player base when I say this, the whole reason I left WoW was because of the whole elitism that goes with the game nowadays. I wanted to escape that. Basically if your rating sucks, your considered a "baddie" and not worthy etc etc. Sorry but no i hope BW never implements arenas in this game as we dont need those kind of players here in swtor. If you want arena, then what you need to do is go back to WoW. Ranked WZs are an awesome idea when they do get implemented and imho and I know I can speak for alot of players when I say this, are going to be awesome. I know im looking forward to it.


thread http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=444696

Was he right ?
Hey Davidatkinson, I think there are some parts to the guy's post that are valid criticisms of the present rating/ELO system coupled with arenas. Where I differ with him is in regards to it only being the arena setup that is at fault for causing the toxicity and poor behavior of many of the players competing in ranked.

I honestly believe if the ELO rating system was tightly organized and difficult to cheat/manipulate you wouldn't have the rampant cheating and toxicity. With this ELO rating scoring system, even 8v8 ranked would have the same issues which is it's just too easy for cheaters to win trade and ruin honest player's matches. In fact, It's so easy that the allure draws way too many players to do it.

A second element is the "arenas promote the whole 'look at my rating, i'm better than you' mentality which just isnt needed in a new MMO like swtor." There is a ton of pressure on people not to lose, and what I stress is one loss can damage a player's ELO rating so much that when a loss does occur, people flip and rage hard. This obviously causes people with low tolerance for insults and poor sportsmanship to not want anything to do with ranked.

Having losses be such a big part of the scoring system where people are constantly dropping matches and ruining them for other player's creates a highly unstable and toxic environment in the ranked scene.



The other part to this multi-faceted problem ranked WZs have is this:

Quote: Originally Posted by foxmob View Post
anyway, I'd like to point out that everything he says has nothing to do with arenas and everything to do with rated competition. rated WZs come with all the same issues.
This is exactly right. ^

I pounded this drum recently in my explanation of what causes a lot of the toxicity and awful behavior in ranked including the win trades. It's the way ELO and rating is scored on SWTOR.

It's possible to have a rating ELO point score system for competions in games which is there to reward those who do the best/achieve the most but there's one caveat and that is the system has to be difficult to be cheated or manipulated!

Right now, it takes less than an hour and a small group of coordinated pals to completely ruin other players matches all the while gaining top ELO for their very important top 3 title to prove to everyone else they are the best. That or get the title on an account so they can sell it, which is what another poster has brought up.

One other point I want to emphasize is the fact the ELO system on SWTOR punishes you on a loss so harshly that every loss is a big deal. For honest players who want competitive matches where wins/losses mean something this is the worst part, because of the rampant cheating/win trading so many of the matches are ruined.

I honestly believe that a wins/losses point system would benefit ranked, meaning top title rewards ought to be given to the players who win the most matches. This would encourage maximum player participation, make losses mean nothing, and cut down on a ton of the toxicity and make the task of cheating the system for top titles based on win totals very difficult to do. This type of system would also be far easier to trace win traders activity too with them having to try to win trade a maximum number of wins for top 3 titles.

As it stands now, the present ELO rating system which is used for top ELO scores only rewards those who cheat the best, in no way do any of these titles mean the player is "the best" and that has even been admitted by those who support keeping the present ELO system in place. I honestly don't see any logical defense of this system. As long as it is easily cheated and manipulated, ranked will continue to become less popular and continue to die as it has for the last few years.
The Revival of SWTOR: Petition for More Funding and Resources
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http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=959696

Rion_Starkiller's Avatar


Rion_Starkiller
03.02.2019 , 09:54 AM | #4
EDIT: I think at this point in the game's life, I'm willing to try anything, even Arena rating, particularly if it means better matchmaking.
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