First...

Dark/Light requirements present on some color crystals have been removed.

When he resurrected the Sith under his own banner, Revan observed the tradition of using red-hued blades laid out by the original Sith. Many of his followers followed suit, and red lightsabers became recognized as the mark of a darksider. The usage of red lightsabers continued among the surviving darksiders after the fall of Revan's Empire.

 

...

 

As with the Sith of Revan's Empire and the Empire of the Sith Triumvirate, red blades were customary for Sith to wield, solidifying the red lightsaber as emblematic of the Sith.

Second...

Completing Chapter 3 with a class will unlock their Heroic Ability for each other class! Did you ever want to use Force Choke on your Imperial Agent? Now you can

Seriously BioWare? Anyone has the potential to use the Force. Even the non-sensitive. I don't have any fancy quote anywhere. But somehow I feel this is appropriate. Do you want a pony?

Sith use red lightsabers. Jedi use blue-and-green. The Light/Dark restrictions have NOTHING to do with being Jedi or Sith. A Dark-Side Jedi can't use Jedi colors because of his dark alignment, while a Light-Side Sith can't use red because of his light alignment. I argue that this move actually HELPS role-play.

As for the "heroic ability unlock. . ." yeah, that bothers me a bit. Though it would be cool to have a Sith Warrior who can use Force Lightning, or a Sith Assassin with some improved lightsaber attacks, an Imperial Agent using Force Choke. . . well, you could RP it as a miniature tractor beam projector mounted in your armor. . .

Sith use red lightsabers. Jedi use blue-and-green. The Light/Dark restrictions have NOTHING to do with being Jedi or Sith. A Dark-Side Jedi can't use Jedi colors because of his dark alignment, while a Light-Side Sith can't use red because of his light alignment. I argue that this move actually HELPS role-play.

 

As for the "heroic ability unlock. . ." yeah, that bothers me a bit. Though it would be cool to have a Sith Warrior who can use Force Lightning, or a Sith Assassin with some improved lightsaber attacks, an Imperial Agent using Force Choke. . . well, you could RP it as a miniature tractor beam projector mounted in your armor. . .

This is true. A roleplayer can take this and change it to fit their story. It's not really ruining roleplay unless you let it.

 

As for the "heroic ability unlock. . ." yeah, that bothers me a bit. Though it would be cool to have a Sith Warrior who can use Force Lightning, or a Sith Assassin with some improved lightsaber attacks, an Imperial Agent using Force Choke. . . well, you could RP it as a miniature tractor beam projector mounted in your armor. . .

You could also RP that you were never found by your respective order and learned from yourself/some hermit. There are more ways to go about this than people are thinking of. And you aren't REQUIRED to use these powers, either.

It's not really ruining roleplay unless you let it.

Pretty much this. I agree it's a bit odd, but it's up to us to filter out the stuff we don't like.

The idea behind the legacy system is that all your characters are part of some extended galactic family. It is already established that force sensitivity tends to run in families, think of the Luke/Leia model here. Also, as stated, where and how you can use these abilities will be limited.

The color crystal restrictions never made sense, and were always in violation of extended universe canon. Plenty of Sith throughout Galactic history used Blue or Green blades, and in the EU canon both Luke and Leia use a red blade at some point. Additionally, why would blaster bolts be color restricted? There is no supporting canon for that.

I find it hard to accept an argument that contrived limitations that fly in the face of the extended universe canon, The Old Republic being part of the extended universe, somehow enhance roleplay. That would be like saying not cutting off a persons legs is a detriment to their mobility.

The only people that would see more options for roleplay as being bad would be those who want to enforce their concept of roleplay on the rest of the playerbase.

First...

 

 

 

 

 

Second...

 

 

 

Seriously BioWare? Anyone has the potential to use the Force. Even the non-sensitive. I don't have any fancy quote anywhere. But somehow I feel this is appropriate. Do you want a pony?

Any half decent roleplayer wont see an issue with the colour stone restriction changes. I personally don't. If anything it can only enrichen peoples story...

Besides excluding jedi/sith I dont see why the other classes cant use a red blaster if they are a smuggler...

I dont understand what the problem is here...

Edit:

I just read the second bit... Ok thats bullcrap.

It not only ruins roleplay and canon but it also takes the game further away from Star Wars and what it is.

I cant honestly believe Lucas Arts ok'ed this... Im dismissing it as ******** until then...

Sith use red lightsabers. Jedi use blue-and-green. The Light/Dark restrictions have NOTHING to do with being Jedi or Sith. A Dark-Side Jedi can't use Jedi colors because of his dark alignment, while a Light-Side Sith can't use red because of his light alignment. I argue that this move actually HELPS role-play.

You have no clue what you are talking about. First of all a red light saber during this time period is the mark of the Sith and of the dark side. The other colors are in abundant supply but also hold traditional meanings.

Around 4,000 BBY, lightsaber crystals were used to indicate a Jedi's chosen class. Blue indicated a Jedi Guardian, a Jedi who used the Force on a more physical level. Green indicated a Jedi Consular, a Jedi who preferred to reflect on the mysteries of the Force and fight the dark side at its heart. Yellow indicated a Jedi Sentinel, a Jedi who honed their skills in a balance of combat and scholarly pursuits.

 

This distinction fell out of practice in later years when most Jedi used blue or green crystals based on choice, and the supply of them on various source worlds. Purple, yellow, and orange crystals were still used by some Jedi until the the fall of the Jedi Order, but they were exceedingly rare, and often passed down through generations.

The switch to blue and green only was specifically noticed only after Episode 3 and before Episode 4 really.

Now back to the topic at hand... So are you telling me it doesn't ruin role play when you see Jedi Knight's running around the Jedi Temple on Tython with a red blade when this time period marks that Knight as a Sith / Dark Side user?

I'm sorry but these changes remove the suspension of disbelief. What BioWare should do is make these changes on the regular servers and leave things as is (or modified better for actual lore) on the RP servers.

Thank God I dont RP on Republic side...enjoy your sith pureblood jedis...thats gonna be really *********** awkward "I SLAIN OVER 100 JEDIS BUT NOW I AM ONE BECAUSE THE FORCE TOLD ME TO DO GOOD HHUUUUHRUHRUHRUHREUHREURHEU :B!"

I think this is a strange viewpoint considering the films depict a Sith Lord who has killed literally billions of people finding redemption in the light side, and that the TOR story is based off a fallen Jedi who killed literally billions of people finding redemption in the light, and that there is a Republic side Sith Pureblood already in the game that switched sides to oppose the Emperor.

I'm sorry but these changes remove the suspension of disbelief.

How so? There's nothing in lore that indicates a hard rule on color crystal usage (quite the opposite actually), only tradition. The whole concept of "Sith can't activate blue lightsabers" is actually entirely lore breaking.

If you want to talk about immersion breaking, how about the nonsensical "I was too nice, so now I have to go steal candy from a few children so my lightsaber doesn't stop working" crap that dictates the way you have to play right now in order to customize your character in a way you want? How is that not far, far more immersion breaking than customization?

What BioWare should do is make these changes on the regular servers and leave things as is (or modified better for actual lore) on the RP servers.

That would be a horrible idea. Not sure why you want to screw people who rolled on RP servers.

Thank God I dont RP on Republic side...enjoy your sith pureblood jedis...thats gonna be really *********** awkward "I SLAIN OVER 100 JEDIS BUT NOW I AM ONE BECAUSE THE FORCE TOLD ME TO DO GOOD HHUUUUHRUHRUHRUHREUHREURHEU :B!"

You should definitely avoid doing the Jedi Knight story then.

I think this is a strange viewpoint considering the films depict a Sith Lord who has killed literally billions of people finding redemption in the light side, and that the TOR story is based off a fallen Jedi who killed literally billions of people finding redemption in the light, and that there is a Republic side Sith Pureblood already in the game that switched sides to oppose the Emperor.

Im talking the amount...I know Lord Scourge is not a part of the Republic or Empire hes pretty much on his own accord...I dont know the other.

I mean..SURE if they RP the pureblood becoming a Jedi effectively then they'll fit but I predict it'll be with the same stigmata that Death Knight rpers got in WoW.

You have no clue what you are talking about. First of all a red light saber during this time period is the mark of the Sith and of the dark side. The other colors are in abundant supply but also hold traditional meanings.

Clearly you have no clue what you're talking about. What he said made sense in that Green/Blue is a Jedi color and since Green/Blue was restricted to LS that would me a Dark sided player who plays as a Jedi wouldn't be able use the usual colors of the Jedi. Same goes for a light sided player who plays as a Sith, because of the forbidden to light 1 and above, it would cause them to not be able to use a Sith's normal lightsaber color.

Another thing is that there have been plenty of Jedi who use red lightsabers throughout the history of the Order...

I was looking forward to patch 1.2 and then I glanced into this thread and started doing a bit more research. I regret not having watched the guild summit, for it feels like I've missed a lot.

I don't care about the colour restrictions on crystals anymore, I see my fair share of Sith using blue lightsabers. How many "It's a trophy, taken from the dead hands of my mortal enemy"-stories can there be out there?

I didn't roll my agent because I wanted to be a force user. In fact, I love how the sith just step on me, treating me like a tool, it's great for immersion. Have I ever wanted to use force choke? Hell no. The cool thing about agents is that they are -not- force sensetive.

Worst of all, I keep seeing this all around the forums... Sith Pureblood as Jedi? That must be the biggest lorelol ever. Sith, they grow up in the empire with a certain view of the galaxy, and in their early years, surely they must learn of how the Jedi nearly hunted them to extinction. Forgive the cruel analogy, but a sith pureblood joining the Jedi is like a young child looking up to Hitler as a role-model. I know that the empire is supposed to be "OMG EVIL", but keep things in perspective.

Seeing Sith Pureblood Jedi is going to break the entire immersion of this game for me, and that may just make me quit. I've loved this game thus far, even though it is very lacking in the RP-department... and these upcoming changes, they surely won't help.

I was looking forward to patch 1.2 and then I glanced into this thread and started doing a bit more research. I regret not having watched the guild summit, for it feels like I've missed a lot.

 

I don't care about the colour restrictions on crystals anymore, I see my fair share of Sith using blue lightsabers. How many "It's a trophy, taken from the dead hands of my mortal enemy"-stories can there be out there?

 

I didn't roll my agent because I wanted to be a force user. In fact, I love how the sith just step on me, treating me like a tool, it's great for immersion. Have I ever wanted to use force choke? Hell no. The cool thing about agents is that they are -not- force sensetive.

 

Worst of all, I keep seeing this all around the forums... Sith Pureblood as Jedi? That must be the biggest lorelol ever. Sith, they grow up in the empire with a certain view of the galaxy, and in their early years, surely they must learn of how the Jedi nearly hunted them to extinction. Forgive the cruel analogy, but a sith pureblood joining the Jedi is like a young child looking up to Hitler as a role-model. I know that the empire is supposed to be "OMG EVIL", but keep things in perspective.

 

 

Seeing Sith Pureblood Jedi is going to break the entire immersion of this game for me, and that may just make me quit. I've loved this game thus far, even though it is very lacking in the RP-department... and these upcoming changes, they surely won't help.

Agreed. Color crystals aside (because I am not going to continue to sit here and debate how ridiculously stupid it would be for Yoda to have a red lightsaber), the ability to Force Choke using an Imperial Agent? BioWare seriously has no clue what they are doing.

Color crystals aside (because I am not going to continue to sit here and debate how ridiculously stupid it would be for Yoda to have a red lightsaber)

Except no one is talking about Yoda. We're talking about some RPers specific Jedi character.

I admit though, I still can't fathom how you can call the concept, as sickening as it is, of character customization immersion breaking while simultaneously pushing Bioware to keep something that doesn't exist anywhere in Lore and directly contradicts SW canon.

the ability to Force Choke using an Imperial Agent? BioWare seriously has no clue what they are doing.

Then ignore it. Treat it as a non-RP relevant perk, in the same fashion that you tend to ignore the fact that every single bounty hunter has the exact same set of companions and exact same ship and that there are several hundred champions of the great hunt. It's not like the cross class abilities aren't heavily restricted anyways (since you can only use them every twenty minutes and only solo or in a two man group ).

Or hell, you could try to use your imagination to find an alternate explanation for it if you really wanted to get crazy.

Hello, I will swiftly make a Pure Sith Councilor upon release of 1.2 and here is my RP reasoning for it.

My talented pilot named Captain Jakob Keyes has crossed my blood craving Sith warrior named Darth Travan on multiple occasions, one such occasion has lead to a rather strange situation... Captain Jakob Keyes found a baby Sith Pureblood in Darth Travons Estate when he was recovering some precious cargo the good Darth 'apprehended'. Jakob handed the child over to the Jedi council and the child grew to truly believe in the ways of the Jedi.

Eventually the young Sith meets the old Captain and Captain presents him with a gift, it's the lightsaber of his farther. The Captain explains everything that happened between him and the young Siths farther and it further stirred the Sith's commitment to the Jedi...

Now this Sith has one goal, to bring his race into the light.

I am a roleplayer and I find these changes, for the most part, a good thing. Color crystal restrictions were a bad idea. NOWHERE in SW lore/canon are Jedi restricted from using red sabers and Sith restricted from using blue, green or any other color. You don't like the removal of these restrictions there is a simple solution...RP your character YOUR way.

Sith Pureblood as Jedi is a little odd but it IS possible, however slim the chance. A true roleplayer keeps an open mind. If the other player comes up with a good story about their character then you shouldn't have a problem. A good RP'er should also want to help others deveolp their stories. Don't be so closed minded.

Finally we get to the new abilities. You do realize that those abilities are restricted to PVE, with a companion, used in conjunction with your HEROIC MOMENT ability which has a 20 minute cooldown, right? It's not like a BH is going to choke out their enemies every 10 seconds. There is a simple solution to this..if you do not like it then DON'T use it. You aren't required to assign your character any new abillities, it is just an option.

Bioware is trying to improve roleplay. Give them time to improve the community/rp aspect of this game. Two and a half months is not much time.

Sith Pureblood as Jedi is a little odd but it IS possible, however slim the chance. A true roleplayer keeps an open mind. If the other player comes up with a good story about their character then you shouldn't have a problem. A good RP'er should also want to help others deveolp their stories. Don't be so closed minded.

The problem lies within "slim chance". I personally would have a very hard time to accept ONE person's story.. but to accept the dozen of dozens of Sith Pureblood Jedi Knight stories is going to be nigh impossible to swallow.

And this is assuming that those dozen of dozens of stories will be good. Less is more and it's better to do the easy things good than complicated things badly.

And I quote, pay close attention to the highlighted portion...

Though synthetic crystals were ordinarily unsuitable for use in lightsabers, the Sith discovered that they could create synth-crystals that were energized, magnetized, and modified with the power of the dark side of the Force in special furnaces, causing the crystal to glow in harmonic vibration.

 

Most synthetic crystals were red, a result of the forging process, and oftentimes the initiate's intentional manipulations, as most individuals who utilized synthetic crystals were Darksiders. The red-hued lightsaber blades generated by such crystals were often nicknamed "bloodshine blades".

And...

Darths Revan and Malak followed suit when they rose to power, making the usage of red-crystals widespread among their Sith followers. Due to their common use within Revan's Sith Empire, red-hued crystals were marked as the staple of Darksiders.

So, what you are telling me is BioWare was in the wrong to have a Dark Side restriction on a red lightsaber crystal? Please... I am not even going to debate this any further.

And for the folks saying to pretend the Force Choke is something else. If it quacks like a duck... and walks like a duck. It sure as **** isn't a moose.

And I quote, pay close attention to the highlighted portion...

 

 

 

And...

 

 

 

So, what you are telling me is BioWare was in the wrong to have a Dark Side restriction on a red lightsaber crystal? Please...

Your quote cites tradition and general themes, it does not at any point state a rule (notice the use of words like "most" rather than words like "always").

The point stands that alignment requirement on crystals goes against established SW canon (where Sith sometimes use blue and Jedi sometimes use red). Pointing out what's normal and what's possible are significantly different things, and I'm not sure why people have so much trouble understanding that.

Nevermind that if we really wanted to get serious about lore based coloration, we'd restrict guardians to blue, sages to green, and sentinels/shadows and all Sith to red to yellow regardless of alignment, since those are the traditional colors for those subclasses.

Since you like to quote... Here's one for you from some Jedi knight:

I don't need to remind you that a crimson blade doesn't guarantee that a wielder is Sith...A crimson blade can owe to nothing more than a synthetic power crystal. Then crimson is just a color

Worse, that quote is from the top of the same page you're taking your own.

Further down the same page it notes that Jedi were "discouraged from using them", but at no point does it every say that a Jedi was unable to use one, or imply that said discouragement was anything enforced as a rule.

I guess I just can't understand why someone would get so worked up over the idea that someone else's character might behave or look different than their preconceived notion of an archetype. Sure, maybe if the character is played terribly, but that's not the point of contention here.

I am not even going to debate this any further.

One might wonder why you'd make a discussion thread on a topic if you're unwilling to actually discuss the topic. Were you just hoping for an echo chamber?

And for the folks saying to pretend the Force Choke is something else. If it quacks like a duck... and walks like a duck. It sure as **** isn't a moose.

Improvisation and Abstraction ("It's not force lightning, it's a wrist mounted pulse cannon") and compartmentalization ("Ignore that IC, it's not RP relevant") are both pretty significant tools for RPing in general, and especially so in RPing over a medium like a video game. To be entirely blunt, if you have trouble with those, maybe this isn't for you.

Your quote cites... Blah, Blah, Blah

You need to seriously go watch the movies, read the books, and in your case I would even recommend the Clone Wars cartoons. Because again, you have no clue what you are talking about and are in denial.

It is clearly defined that the red synthetic crystals are forged partially through the use of the Dark Side and actually become stronger when the user flows Dark Side energy through the crystal (such as during combat). As was CLEARLY shown in the quotation I provided this was detailed.

You can rest assured that a Sith Pureblood "Jedi Consular" who is max Light Side yet wields a Dark Side forged synthetic red crystal lightsaber whilst chilling out outside the doors of the Jedi Council and sporting the title of Jedi Master... is wrong. To believe anything else is to show your ignorance of the Star Wars universe.

Believe it or not. And that is all.