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KBN's Stress-Free Guide to the Tank Rotation

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Shadow / Assassin
KBN's Stress-Free Guide to the Tank Rotation
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Evolixe's Avatar


Evolixe
09.19.2014 , 03:14 PM | #91
Quote: Originally Posted by Aelanis View Post
It's honestly just a relic of when the boards were separated. I think keeping them separate is okay, because the "X/Y" format you'd have to do for every ability and talent would get very cumbersome.
We're going to have to start dealing with that anyways now that the forums are merged.
People will be talking in Shadow AND Assassin synonims one through the other and not always explaining the other side.

Perhaps It's a good idea to write a legend on that for the people whom have never played the other factions mirror class.
Evolixe | Exilove
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Aelanis's Avatar


Aelanis
09.19.2014 , 03:56 PM | #92
Quote: Originally Posted by Evolixe View Post
We're going to have to start dealing with that anyways now that the forums are merged.
People will be talking in Shadow AND Assassin synonims one through the other and not always explaining the other side.

Perhaps It's a good idea to write a legend on that for the people whom have never played the other factions mirror class.
I smell a new stickied post.
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Evolixe's Avatar


Evolixe
09.19.2014 , 04:24 PM | #93
Quote: Originally Posted by Aelanis View Post
I smell a new stickied post.
Hue

This should do, although I'll take any critisizm.
Evolixe | Exilove
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agentwx's Avatar


agentwx
11.06.2014 , 11:54 AM | #94
First and foremost it was a commendable act from a marketing point of view achieving the changes introduced in 2.5. It was definitely not a Pareto Optimal solution yet you managed to pull it off. Hats off as the changes hurt so many user groups:
  • ones who level an assassin/shadow tanks
  • PvP focused players who were tanking with their assassin/shadow
  • role players, and the ones who cared about the lore
  • skilled PvE players who enjoyed the quite mobile tank that assassin/shadow was pre 2.5

The changes created a turret tank which remained RNG dependant. The example video does not alleviate this. Instead of showing how "Stress-Free" is the rotation in fights which were cited as the reason of the changes (any or all of the following nightmare difficulty bosses: Brontes, Tyrans, Calphayus or The Council) the example video features a level 38 opponent. This boss was soloable by end game players even pre 2.0 therefore it does not seem very credible for showing off just how "Stress-Free" the rotation is. A ranked match with a decent enemy team (and without healer in your group) would have been way more convincing.

DogEyedBoy's Avatar


DogEyedBoy
11.07.2014 , 11:09 AM | #95
Quote: Originally Posted by agentwx View Post
  • skilled PvE players who enjoyed the quite mobile tank that assassin/shadow was pre 2.5

The changes created a turret tank which remained RNG dependant.
This makes no sense. Before the changes Assassins/Shadows had to channel the full duration of buffed Force Lightning/Telekinetic Throw as often as possible to maintain maximum mitigation, since the changes they just have to land one tick every 12 seconds. That's infinitely more mobile and very non-turret like.

restofever's Avatar


restofever
11.07.2014 , 11:22 AM | #96
Quote: Originally Posted by agentwx View Post
First and foremost it was a commendable act from a marketing point of view achieving the changes introduced in 2.5. It was definitely not a Pareto Optimal solution yet you managed to pull it off. Hats off as the changes hurt so many user groups:
  • ones who level an assassin/shadow tanks
  • PvP focused players who were tanking with their assassin/shadow
  • role players, and the ones who cared about the lore
  • skilled PvE players who enjoyed the quite mobile tank that assassin/shadow was pre 2.5

The changes created a turret tank which remained RNG dependant. The example video does not alleviate this. Instead of showing how "Stress-Free" is the rotation in fights which were cited as the reason of the changes (any or all of the following nightmare difficulty bosses: Brontes, Tyrans, Calphayus or The Council) the example video features a level 38 opponent. This boss was soloable by end game players even pre 2.0 therefore it does not seem very credible for showing off just how "Stress-Free" the rotation is. A ranked match with a decent enemy team (and without healer in your group) would have been way more convincing.
The changes to Shadows/Assassins in 2.5 didn't really change your rotation much or how you played the class. The new mechanics in fact make it more mobile than ever before. I'm also confused as to how the changes effected lore or RP. It actually makes more sense that your flying debris absorbs damage prior to it coming to you rather than throwing debris at someone healing you.

Can you elaborate on how the 2.5 changes effect what you listed?
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KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
11.07.2014 , 12:11 PM | #97
Quote: Originally Posted by agentwx View Post
First and foremost it was a commendable act from a marketing point of view achieving the changes introduced in 2.5. It was definitely not a Pareto Optimal solution yet you managed to pull it off. Hats off as the changes hurt so many user groups:
  • ones who level an assassin/shadow tanks
  • PvP focused players who were tanking with their assassin/shadow
  • role players, and the ones who cared about the lore
  • skilled PvE players who enjoyed the quite mobile tank that assassin/shadow was pre 2.5

The changes created a turret tank which remained RNG dependant. The example video does not alleviate this. Instead of showing how "Stress-Free" is the rotation in fights which were cited as the reason of the changes (any or all of the following nightmare difficulty bosses: Brontes, Tyrans, Calphayus or The Council) the example video features a level 38 opponent. This boss was soloable by end game players even pre 2.0 therefore it does not seem very credible for showing off just how "Stress-Free" the rotation is. A ranked match with a decent enemy team (and without healer in your group) would have been way more convincing.
I can show you a Nightmare Bestia pre-nerf kill where I lose my stacks exactly once (and then only because I decided that the debuffs were more important in that moment) for the entire nine and a half minute fight with heavy movement and target swapping. Brontes and Tyrans don't count (as you should know) since no sane shadow/assassin runs full tank spec on those fights. Calphayus is a joke, and also has more than enough downtime to make the stacks non-existent. As for Council, Bestia's punt alone prevents stack maintenance unless your guild solo tanks and you manage Calphayus. However, the punt also makes it less interesting to maintain your stacks all of the time, since you're not taking damage for a good chunk of the phase.

Basically, all of the bosses you listed are terrible exemplars, and several bosses you didn't list would be more convincing. And as for the "ranked match without a healer" idea… That's a completely artificial scenario, and one in which none of the other tanks would do particularly well either. I've done it, and I've performed adequately, but the fact is that no class is balanced around soloing down ranked groups.

The video attached to the OP is intended to show how the rotation works without other distractions. If I wanted to show how the rotation can be applied to challenging content, I would have shown a different video.

We're not a turret tank. We are actually more mobile than we were before because we use Telekinetic Throw/Force Lightning less often! Pre-2.5, we had to use it on cooldown. No exceptions. Ever. Now, we have a full 12 second window and only a single tick is required to refresh. That gives us a ton of time to play with. The only part of the rotation that is rigid and punishing, honestly, is getting that first Project/Shock in to avoid delaying the second one. As long as you have a target to hit and can activate that ability on schedule (hint: you basically always can), there really is no problem.

Regarding your last point (skilled PvE players who enjoyed mobility), the skilled PvE players who were playing the tank pre-2.5 are well aware of how immobile it really was. If you think you have less mobility now than you did before, then you were simply not playing the class correctly.
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Kalispa's Avatar


Kalispa
12.10.2014 , 03:36 PM | #98
O gee could you post another video in a fight that requires almost zero situational awareness and no movement, because that would prove your point spot on KBN. They need to extend the timer, or give us something that is a one shot to reset the time on the stacks so that if we do need to move and our 4% drops off at least we will have the proc stacks up so when we can we can get the 4 back with out spending 10 second rebuilding our proc buff

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
12.11.2014 , 04:03 PM | #99
Quote: Originally Posted by Kalispa View Post
O gee could you post another video in a fight that requires almost zero situational awareness and no movement, because that would prove your point spot on KBN.
I'll post a dummy parse video next time.

For the last time, the video was not meant to prove any point other than that there is enough time to refresh your stacks. That's all.

Quote: Originally Posted by Kalispa View Post
They need to extend the timer, or give us something that is a one shot to reset the time on the stacks so that if we do need to move and our 4% drops off at least we will have the proc stacks up so when we can we can get the 4 back with out spending 10 second rebuilding our proc buff
If your buff is falling off, I'm sorry but you're doing it wrong. I hate to go all "L2play" on you, but that's basically what it comes down to. The new rotation is slightly different from what I posted in the OP (I'm planning on updating it), but it still has the same basic structure and principles. At the end of the day, if you're using Project and Slow Time on cooldown and hitting Cascading Debris as soon as you have 3 stacks, you're going to have your damage reduction buff up 100% of the time.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
Averith (marksman sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (vengeance jugg) Effek (pyro pt)

December 13, 2011 to January 30, 2017

DogEyedBoy's Avatar


DogEyedBoy
12.11.2014 , 07:45 PM | #100
What happened to the set bonus providing 4 stacks upon using Force Pull? Stacks still don't fall off, but it'd make me feel a bit better about pulling with Crushing Darkness.