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I would like to suggest a major change to how companions are used in story content


CloudCastle

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The idea that BW intended in KOTFE/KOTET -- that of giving every companion a major story block where they got to be a featured character -- was admirable, but too ambitious. BW appears to have given up on the idea and is now going with requiring players to take along one companion of BW's choice to story content, while putting aside the others temporarily (or maybe permanently.)

 

Thing is, one of my favorite aspects of SWTOR was the ability to choose a meaningful buddy/love interest/adversary and make them a part of my adventures. This is the thing that kept me playing for so long, and one of the things that encouraged me to level so many alts (I've done all the class stories 3 times now.) Seeing how different companions responded to story situations was endlessly entertaining, and having a favorite companion with you made my chaarcter's story feel more meaningful as that emotional bond developed.

 

Gradually, as time has gone on, I've abandoned more and more beloved characters, because their stories feel empty, and sometimes even nonsensical, when they are forced to share major defining moments with a BW chosen companion that doesn't suit them. I'm not enjoying myself any way near as much as a I used to.

 

May I suggest the (possibly radical) idea of simply returning some previous game mechanics to how companions worked? I would be happy with simply seeing the companion of my choice in the background of my cut scenes again, with little pop-ups giving me clues as to what they thought of my decisions, and with the occasional brief scene where they could comment on events in the story.

 

We already know that BW has the ability to let more than one companion follow you throughout the game environment, so both players and the story writers could still choose who they wanted to go with the PC in scenes.

 

I don't need my companion to play a starring role, BW. But I can't stand that my favorite companions have all but disappeared from my character's story life. I now have to imagine that they were there or I have to come up with similar brain gymnastics to explain why they weren't.

 

I would be deliriously happy if my companions:

 

1) Could come with me on my story adventures at my discretion

2) Could be seen participating in cut scenes with me even if they don't have any lines

3) Could comment again (audio only) on the landscape, both new and old

4) Could gain influence from all conversations again, both new and old - or barring that could 3.b) give pop up messages indicating if they approved or disapproved of my choices

 

Those are my top four. But I would also dearly love it if my companions also:

5) Had working facial customizations in all cut scenes

6) Had working, movable mouths when clicked on

7) Used the appropriate voice and lines (and not the voice of another companion by mistake)

8) Sent me letters every now and then

 

Is there any chance you could make this happen?

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While I personally don't see the big deal about the mouths moving (most of the NPCs don't when you click them, and most of the time you're running around in battle anyway...I didn't notice that the mouths even moved on some companions until it was pointed out that they don't move on others), I fully agree that there should be more choice in the companions people interact with and include. Letters from all romance companions and our former class companions would be nice and shouldn't cost a lot for the devs to do. Animating people's LIs and anyone they've left alive into the background of scenes again doesn't cost much.

 

Allowing people to bring the companions they want on missions would go a long way to making people feel some agency in their game. The "forced companions" are something that most people have had an issue with because sooner or later you end up running with one you don't want. In 5.10 Bioware did bump the forced companions to 10 influence to avoid the issue of having to run new content with someone at level 1, but it would have been nice to have a familiar face there too.

 

Even if there needs to be a forced companion as a narrator, giving the player a choice between two or three companions to take as a secondary might help.

Edited by IoNonSoEVero
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I totally agree OP, being able to bring different companions and see how each reacted to different situations greatly increased replay value for me and like you said helped define characters. You could have your goody two shoes character hanging out with your goody two shoes companion, your evil character with your evil companion and so on.
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I completely agree with/support this. Especially the point about missing the feedback from companions. As each companion has unique likes/dislikes I would actually run through conversations multiple times just to see their reactions. Small things like that add a lot of depth and understanding to their characters.

 

I appreciate that your suggestions seem very practical and lower resource intensive, so hopefully this is a direction the devs might actually be able to take up.

 

Honestly no interaction with chosen companions (not assigned ones) is one of my biggest frustrations with new content. For almost all of KOTFE/KOTET you were required to have specific companions at specific times and even the last patch wanted you to "go alone" (even though it didn't actually stop you from take a comp with you).

 

I would love just to have acknowledgement they are there. You don't have to have Aric Jorgan speak for the game to acknowledge him in some way.

 

Hell even simple dialogue to the effect of "This will be a dangerous mission, you should bring someone you trust" and when you enter the next convo the scene could show the companion behind you and have some dialogue acknowledging their presence (not even by name, just something like "I see you brought someone along, I hope we can count on them") and you respond with "I trust them with my life" or the like.

 

That kind of carefully worded dialogue wouldn't have to be catered to different choices or previous experiences and would let people who RP fill in the blanks or build from it.

 

At the end of the day I find myself in the same position as you, I just want the game to acknowledge the commitment I made to certain companions, even if it's mostly just through minor things like that.

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4) Could gain influence from all conversations again, both new and old - or barring that could 3.b) give pop up messages indicating if they approved or disapproved of my choices

That wasn't ever true anyway. If you went to a lowbie planet with a highbie companion (example: Inquisitor taking Talos Drellik to Dromund Kaas), the companion commented on nothing in the scenery, gained or lost influence (er, affection) in no conversations, and neither approved nor disapproved of anything. Only the original starter world companions could gain or lose affection in Black Talon / The Esseles.

 

However, it is slightly (but only slightly(1)) odd that the same situation where a not-yet-departed companion would have gained / lost affection in the old state of things, or gained / gained influence in the new state of things, if you go there with the post-return version, the companion has no opinion.

 

(1) Times change. The post-return companion has seen at least six or seven years of ... stuff ... since the original time, and his / her / its opinion on stuff will have evolved in the meantime. (On the other hand, that would suggest that they should have *different* opinions on things rather than *no* opinion.)

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#3 definitely seems out of scope. At best they could tie in the old “flavor comments” that the vanilla companions had on vanilla planets. But if you recall, from a program/code perspective, even our old vanilla companions that have returned are, for all intents and purposes from the computer’s perspective, completely new. That’s why they don’t activate in GSF and don’t speak their old flavor comments when brought back to vanilla planets. They may someday be able to re-link those old lines of code with the “new” versions of vanilla companions, but as far as adding in new voice overs for all the other new companions for every planet, that just seems like a lot of money for very little yield.

 

#2 seems possible, at least in the way Karameck wrote above, a non-specific acknowledgement that you have someone with you.

 

#4 Is probably possible, and probably cheaper than voice over work. But it would probably take a lot of time considering the number of companions we have and the amount of conversations a player can have in the entire end-game. Is it better to retrofit every old mission for our entire suite of companions, or simply with content moving forward?

 

#1 again, this would depend on the story right? And it’s not just chapter based KOTFE/KOTET. Even the Iokath and Traitor storylines are written in such a way that there isn’t a choice. I mean, how do you explain Aristocru Segano’s wanting to send a liaison for the Chiss Ascendancy to Copero as anyone other than Raina Temple? You’re advised/told to go alone to Ossus. Maybe future content should be written with more companions in mind, but it would be hard to retrofit the old stuff with new companions. And even then, even if future content is designed with more companions in mind, how do you decide which ones get story treatment and which ones don’t? Whatever the devs choose, someone will be unhappy because the devs chose companions A, B, and C as options, but I want companion X because I killed B and I hate C, and I would prefer X over A, because that’s what I want. So I think maybe it’s easier for the skeleton crew to just make new companions for new content (Major Anri and Tau Idair) than to squeeze in the old ones. As a consular sage who romanced her in vanilla, and stayed faithful through KOTFE/KOTET, I would have preferred to deal with Nadia exclusively on Ossus. And the essence of the story would have worked, although it would have required a lot of extra work on the Dev’s part. But that’s only one class out of four. I’m not sure that Doc would have worked as well as Nadia as a direct substitute for Tau Idair, but even if he does that’s only two classes out of four republic ones. And would either work for a saboteur version of Consular or Knight? Tau doesn’t know the Alliance Commander from Adam, but Nadia and Doc might notice the deception. It’s almost as if the cinematic storytelling and multiple paths of “choices that matter” preclude the kind of options you’re requesting. That was fine in Vanilla before launch but not anymore, not in 2019 and game update 5.10.1.

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Was it to ambitious or were players just in to much of a hurry? Where even now, I wouldn't say we're getting content fast.

 

Players still waiting for the returns of Tharan Cedrax, Zenith, Kira and Scourge have waited for over 3 years. Others waited 2 years or even 1 year. If complaining that that's too long makes them "in a hurry" then I can't say I blame them.

 

I personally think that taking companions away and forcing them out of the story was a mistake to begin with, regardless of whether they were ever intended to be returned and what a "reasonable" pace is.

 

Allowing people to bring the companions they want on missions would go a long way to making people feel some agency in their game. The "forced companions" are something that most people have had an issue with because sooner or later you end up running with one you don't want.

 

Agency is something that KOTFE/KOTET lacked. I noticed right away that cut scenes were longer, with fewer pauses for me to choose lines. In fact, many times I was given no choice at all. My character simply spoke without my input, something that rarely happened in vanilla content. Lack of companion choice was just another symptom of this problem.

 

Customization and choice are major aspects of the MMO genre. Chosing what companions you ran with was a major part of how a player could shape their character's story.

 

I totally agree OP, being able to bring different companions and see how each reacted to different situations greatly increased replay value for me and like you said helped define characters. You could have your goody two shoes character hanging out with your goody two shoes companion, your evil character with your evil companion and so on.

 

Every playthrough of a class I did, I would run with a different companion. Even within playthroughs I would switch them up based on the quest. Force-based quests? Bring a Force companion. Underworld contacts quest? Bring an "outlaw" companion. If my character was about to face a particular emotional challenge, I could take the companion that means the most to them. Sometimes I might purposefully take a companion whose view contradicted my character's own just to add a bit of spice or conflict to my story.

 

If BW wants to give us one-story-fits-all then they should at least let us choose who to take with us on our journey. That alone can add some variety and keep people playing alts.

 

I appreciate that your suggestions seem very practical and lower resource intensive, so hopefully this is a direction the devs might actually be able to take up.

 

Honestly no interaction with chosen companions (not assigned ones) is one of my biggest frustrations with new content. For almost all of KOTFE/KOTET you were required to have specific companions at specific times and even the last patch wanted you to "go alone" (even though it didn't actually stop you from take a comp with you).

 

I would love just to have acknowledgement they are there. You don't have to have Aric Jorgan speak for the game to acknowledge him in some way.

 

Hell even simple dialogue to the effect of "This will be a dangerous mission, you should bring someone you trust" and when you enter the next convo the scene could show the companion behind you and have some dialogue acknowledging their presence (not even by name, just something like "I see you brought someone along, I hope we can count on them") and you respond with "I trust them with my life" or the like.

 

That kind of carefully worded dialogue wouldn't have to be catered to different choices or previous experiences and would let people who RP fill in the blanks or build from it.

 

At the end of the day I find myself in the same position as you, I just want the game to acknowledge the commitment I made to certain companions, even if it's mostly just through minor things like that.

 

I don't ever expect or need to see my companions have starring roles with multiple cut scenes. The story should revolve around our characters after all, and the companions are just flavor to customize our journey. All your suggestions are exactly the kind of thing I had in mind.

 

A major part of the fun for me was imagining my character growing and changing as the story progressed, and often that was reflected in WHO they chose to confide in, who they chose to fight alongside, who they trusted and who they didn't. In KOTFE on we were left with some potentially very strange scenarios where our characters were forced to act like they didn't care or had forgotten their previous lives, previous SO's and best friends. When a new companion is introduced I love to develop my character's personality by deciding do they like this new person or not? Do their personalities mesh or not? Do they trust them or not? But I feel like a big part of that choice was removed in KOTFE on. I was forced to trust the few companions we were given and forced to make them major parts of my character's life, even if t made no sense in my character's story.

 

That wasn't ever true anyway. If you went to a lowbie planet with a highbie companion (example: Inquisitor taking Talos Drellik to Dromund Kaas), the companion commented on nothing in the scenery, gained or lost influence (er, affection) in no conversations, and neither approved nor disapproved of anything. Only the original starter world companions could gain or lose affection in Black Talon / The Esseles.

 

However, it is slightly (but only slightly(1)) odd that the same situation where a not-yet-departed companion would have gained / lost affection in the old state of things, or gained / gained influence in the new state of things, if you go there with the post-return version, the companion has no opinion.

 

(1) Times change. The post-return companion has seen at least six or seven years of ... stuff ... since the original time, and his / her / its opinion on stuff will have evolved in the meantime. (On the other hand, that would suggest that they should have *different* opinions on things rather than *no* opinion.)

 

The planets you visit are all placed on a timeline, so when you return to an "old" planet, you are basically going "back in time." By that logic, it makes sense to me that companions you hadn't yet met would have nothing to say there if you went back and brought them. It also makes sense that they wouldn't be able to comment on "new" events that had happened since you were last there.

 

What I'm talking about is how when you get your companion "returned" after the events of KOTFE, you are getting back -- game mechanics-wise -- a different companion. Right now, I am still using my "old" Scourge and my "old" Corso, for example. I went back and ran an old bonus series with Scourge and he still gained affection from conversations there; I can go back and run around Tatooine and my Corso will still make triggered landscape comments. The "new" Corso, returned through alliance alert, will not do this, and when Scourge is returned, neither will he.

 

I would like to see all companions be able to comment on the landscape again. If it is not possible to add this feature to the "new" companions, then I would like the ability to retain my old version and continue to use them in game content, including story content. I have the feeling that this is not currently possible.

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Good suggestions Cloudcastle but unlikely to happen I think for a number of theories (possibly reasons):

 

 

  1. Lack of Dev In-game Experience: I don't think anyone from the current Bioware staff has ever played the any class stories so cannot understand how different companions helped with our immersion of the story. This is especially true of the female character-male companion romances
  2. Finance - BW can no longer afford or have been told to reduce the fees spent on voice actors so it makes financial sense to forget the old ones and make new "companions" with new voice actors paid at a BW rate. In addition having one basic short story for all with a new companion or companions of their choosing is far, far cheaper to produce then individual immersive stories. I imagine that many of the original voice actors who are still working are in much higher demand and can pick & choose which jobs they take (and can you blame them? If I was a voice actor, I'd only get out of bed for the highest offers).
  3. Cartel Market - forget subs; the profit in this game like many other games is from micro-purchases. Like many, I spend 5-6 times my sub on totally unnecessary Cartel Market shinies.
  4. Lana - the Devs adore her. She is the only companion likely to be given meaningful story treatment in the future & as a result they probably feel by focusing on her they meet all the things we want for our companion.
  5. Ops/ranked PvP - After Lana, these are the Devs next great game loves. No story needed, no voice actors needed (lets face it, one of the Devs could probably do any voicing needed) and probably a lot cheaper than story to produce.

 

If by some miracle BW decided to go with some or all of your suggestions to improve the story experience by improving companion interactions the game sub price would have to go up and I WOULD PAY IT. I would pay double the sub price if it meant meaningful story with the option to run it with whichever of my favourite current or class companions I want.

Edited by Sarova
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#3 definitely seems out of scope. At best they could tie in the old “flavor comments” that the vanilla companions had on vanilla planets. But if you recall, from a program/code perspective, even our old vanilla companions that have returned are, for all intents and purposes from the computer’s perspective, completely new. That’s why they don’t activate in GSF and don’t speak their old flavor comments when brought back to vanilla planets. They may someday be able to re-link those old lines of code with the “new” versions of vanilla companions, but as far as adding in new voice overs for all the other new companions for every planet, that just seems like a lot of money for very little yield.

 

#2 seems possible, at least in the way Karameck wrote above, a non-specific acknowledgement that you have someone with you.

 

#4 Is probably possible, and probably cheaper than voice over work. But it would probably take a lot of time considering the number of companions we have and the amount of conversations a player can have in the entire end-game. Is it better to retrofit every old mission for our entire suite of companions, or simply with content moving forward?

 

#1 again, this would depend on the story right? And it’s not just chapter based KOTFE/KOTET. Even the Iokath and Traitor storylines are written in such a way that there isn’t a choice. I mean, how do you explain Aristocru Segano’s wanting to send a liaison for the Chiss Ascendancy to Copero as anyone other than Raina Temple? You’re advised/told to go alone to Ossus. Maybe future content should be written with more companions in mind, but it would be hard to retrofit the old stuff with new companions. And even then, even if future content is designed with more companions in mind, how do you decide which ones get story treatment and which ones don’t? Whatever the devs choose, someone will be unhappy because the devs chose companions A, B, and C as options, but I want companion X because I killed B and I hate C, and I would prefer X over A, because that’s what I want. So I think maybe it’s easier for the skeleton crew to just make new companions for new content (Major Anri and Tau Idair) than to squeeze in the old ones. As a consular sage who romanced her in vanilla, and stayed faithful through KOTFE/KOTET, I would have preferred to deal with Nadia exclusively on Ossus. And the essence of the story would have worked, although it would have required a lot of extra work on the Dev’s part. But that’s only one class out of four. I’m not sure that Doc would have worked as well as Nadia as a direct substitute for Tau Idair, but even if he does that’s only two classes out of four republic ones. And would either work for a saboteur version of Consular or Knight? Tau doesn’t know the Alliance Commander from Adam, but Nadia and Doc might notice the deception. It’s almost as if the cinematic storytelling and multiple paths of “choices that matter” preclude the kind of options you’re requesting. That was fine in Vanilla before launch but not anymore, not in 2019 and game update 5.10.1.

 

Let me clarify what I meant. For 1) Could come with me on my story adventures at my discretion: I'm not saying that each player gets a customized main character companion to be in their own personalized chapter. I don't expect them to replace Tau, for example or even Lana or Theron. But what if I could have taken a companion of my choice along with me in addition to Tau or Lana or Theron? What if all they did was stand in the background and say nothing other than BE there in my cut scene with me? I think that would still be an improvement. Even better would be if I got a pop up message telling me if my companion of choice approved or not. No voice work necessary, no extra cut scene written. Just a message at the bottom assigned to each companion. Happy with your decision or no? Gain some influence or no? That would make me feel like they were "participating" and again, would be an improvement from what we have now. That's what I'm asking for.

 

For 3) Could comment again (audio only) on the landscape, both new and old: I wasn't asking for new voice lines for every companion that's currently been introduced in the game. I don't expect Arcann to comment when I bring him to Alderaan for example (although that would be incredibly cool). I only want back what was removed - the ability for all my vanilla companions (both old and new versions) to comment on the landscape like they used to.

 

For 4) Could gain influence from all conversations again, both new and old - or barring that could 3.b) give pop up messages indicating if they approved or disapproved of my choices I wasn't trying to ask for every old mission to be retrofitted for our new companions like Senya, Theron or Koth. When I say "old" vs. "new" companions what I was referring to was the "old" game mechanics vs. the "new" game mechanics that our vanilla companions are under. If I take Aric back into a bonus series mission or an old flashpoint, he will no longer gain influence from those conversations. But my "old" version of Corso (the one I got from the terminal, NOT the alliance alert) will. This is one of the reasons why I don't ever plan to do Corso's alliance alert. I don't want the "new" Corso, I want to keep my old one. Unfortunately, players who wanted to keep their old Aric don't have that option. Once a companion returns in a chapter, their old version is forever gone from the terminal and can never be accessed ever again.

 

What I want to know is...is there any way BW can erase this distinction so we don't have to chose between our old and new companion versions? Is there coding that makes it impossible to fix or is it completely possible but just hasn't been done? Did the devs just assume we wouldn't care or notice?

 

Good suggestions Cloudcastle but unlikely to happen I think for a number of theories (possibly reasons) [...] If by some miracle BW decided to go with some or all of your suggestions to improve the story experience by improving companion interactions the game sub price would have to go up and I WOULD PAY IT. I would pay double the sub price if it meant meaningful story with the option to run it with whichever of my favourite current or class companions I want.

 

I know, I understand the cynicism. When devs make changes that break or eliminate aspects of the game that were a major source of fun and enjoyment for me, I wonder the same thing. Did they not know what makes players like me happy? And then I think how the changes that I would love to see feel small and non-intensive and wouldn't affect anyone else's game play in a negative way...If someone doesn't want the choice to bring along an extra companion to their cut scenes, then they don't have to! It feels like a win-win. Adding extra text to your screen and putting in a companion of your choice in the background shouldn't use up many resources. And if they can, maybe once in a while a companion could have a quick response or two, for those companions who would have had a major stake in the action. Even just a small acknowledgement, a line here or there, would make players like me happy.

Edited by CloudCastle
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If by some miracle BW decided to go with some or all of your suggestions to improve the story experience by improving companion interactions the game sub price would have to go up
Let’s start by acknowledging no one here has access to the information needed to determine whether the above would have any impact on sub price. There are always costs associated with running a game, if you budget for something appropriately you don’t have an increased fee for providing it. The assumption that the suggested items could not be considered part of normal operating costs is really outside the scope of our available information.

 

I’ve noticed a tendency in these forums to be very pessimistic, and often attribute the worst explanations to situation where alternative explanations exist.

 

Case in point would be Lana. I don’t think Lana is treated the way she is because they Devs are obsessed with her, there are very practical, mechanic based reasons, to have a continuous point of contact. It’s far less resource intensive to be able to send all characters to the contact point. Lana seemed more a feature of convenience for a strapped Dev team. You’re basically forced into a relationship with her, friendly or otherwise, because without history it wouldn’t make sense to have her remain such a central figure. Is that frustrating for those who don’t like her? Sure. Is the only explanation that Devs wanted to force you to play with their favorite toy? Not really. But on that note, it looks like players who want relief are likely to get it. As the focus shifts away from the alliance, an alliance contact is no longer needed, you even have potential conflict set up with Agent Balkar revealing she’s been keeping things from you.

 

Ultimately the devs have their marching orders, and we don’t know what those are, but I think it’s… unduly negative to assume to plans are to nix all romance options as we knew them. Low budget and resources are not a new addition to the equation, and I think we have enough data to figure out the trend.

 

BW seems to lean heavily towards down-sizing, not completely removing, romance content. And I think OP’s suggestions are very much in line with that approach.

 

I think you may be overestimating the relative costs associated with the proposed items. The cost of sending letters is basically nothing, we’re talking about typing a couple paragraphs and sending it through a pre-existing framework. Cut scenes have to be created anyway, they need only to change the framing and load in your companion’s presence to make them “there”. This is something we saw done countless times in Vanilla, including scenes with no actual companion interaction. There is really nothing new required to re-implement this, they need only take it into consideration when they “stage” the scenes and determine what will be visible in the shot. This is a matter of decision making, not additional resources.

 

Slightly harder would be dialogue when you enter a new area. The Voice Acting just comes down to what creative choices the team decides to make. We know many of the voice actors are fine working with them just to record a few lines for this purpose (RoTHC, SoR both saw this limited Voice Acting utilized) but ultimately without knowing their working budget or the VA’s fees, we can’t say for certain. I think it’s not an unrealistic hope though. BW does have a budget, and will continue to spend it on the elements they consider worth pursuing. (NOTE: What BW considers worth pursuing will likely be determined based on the feedback they see. The squeaky wheel gets the oil!)

 

The most unlikely of the lot is companion responses to dialogue choices. I think it’s not out of the realm of possibility, but it is the most labor intensive. On the positive side, it again utilizes existing features, but on the negative side it would require writing and coding for each possible companion. It’s just a major time sink, so unless it was already planned for there really isn’t a realistic expectation for it to return in the next expansion. But again, as far as possible ways to keep the romance comps relevant, this is one of the more efficient ways to go about it.

 

Fully voiced, independent cut scenes (for comps not appearing in the main story), are likely a thing of the past due to the associated costs. But the suggestions you see above, or countless others not explicitly laid out here, are still possible. I think BW is well aware that people are invested in the romance aspect of the game and will, where the case can be made for the cost-to-benefit-ratio, continue to do what they can to feed it.

 

Basically my point is, we shouldn’t assume the worst. Not all suggestions are equally possible, I think the ones above are realistic enough that they could be viable, and thus, are worth highlighting. I don’t see the community getting anywhere good if we just shut down constructive feedback by assuming it will “cost too much” even in the absence of any proof of that.

Edited by Karameck
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I’ve noticed a tendency in these forums to be very pessimistic, and often attribute the worst explanations to situation where alternative explanations exist.

We've had our hopeful expectations for good story and companion interactions ignored in every game update since Makeb. I've run through every story after class hoping for it to be as good and it never is. Many of the class stories are fun to replay. Makeb, SoR, Kotfe, Kotet and everything after are mostly a slog to be got through for me especially since to preserve my class companions I now have to complete all of kotfe/kotet and beyond or they will be auto dumped in the light or dark side outcome.

 

And as for costs? The game is business over and above being an enjoyable story platform. Nothing will change that.

 

It's not pessimism it's realism based on experience.

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I miss the way we used to pick companions to join us on our mission as well. It definitely seemed to add a personal touch to our PC's story, but I think that even the tiny amount of comments they make would be impractical to implement given how many they've added at this point in the story.
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We've had our hopeful expectations for good story and companion interactions ignored in every game update since Makeb. I've run through every story after class hoping for it to be as good and it never is. Many of the class stories are fun to replay. Makeb, SoR, Kotfe, Kotet and everything after are mostly a slog to be got through for me especially since to preserve my class companions I now have to complete all of kotfe/kotet and beyond or they will be auto dumped in the light or dark side outcome.

 

And as for costs? The game is business over and above being an enjoyable story platform. Nothing will change that.

 

It's not pessimism it's realism based on experience.

Agree to disagree I guess. I have enjoyed a lot of the content post vanilla, and even at parts where I would have preferred things hanndled differently, I still found elements I appreciated, otherwise I wouldn’t still be here.

 

Obviously it’s your perception, and that’s fine, but dismissing practical suggestions doesn’t come across as “pragmatic” from my vantage point.

 

The way I see it, Asking for the sky is optismistic, saying “don’t bother it will never happen” is pessimistic. Offering realistic solutions and alternatives is pragmatic, in my view that’s OP.

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/support Though I hate to be negative, we've been asking for this since the companions went silent in Makeb cutscenes. Their solution was KOTFE/ET and we all know how well that murder spree went down (still). I honestly don't think they know what to do or they have zero ****s left to give.
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It seemed as though at least some of the companions had barks on Rishi and Yavin 4 (all the romanceable ones?), and one or two of the Rishi side stories included companions, too (I am thinking about Talos participating in the Sith Inquisitor's story). If they were able to do that again, just small side quests, it might make people happy.

 

Or they could have each LI have a 30-second "good luck, honey," kiss with the player's toon before missions. They have enough voiceover files of the LIs saying "I love you" and "don't get hurt" and those sorts of things that they wouldn't need to have new recordings, and they already have kiss animations.

 

Or having a silent cut scene where the toon could give their LI a hug or kiss, the way they did in Dragon Age: Origins.

 

In the short-term I think that finding a way to give players a choice of mission companion (even as the secondary) and sending emails would go a long way even without anything else. It was pretty disappointing after 5.10 that they found the time to have seemingly every companion and their brother send an email but there was no LI interaction there.

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It seemed as though at least some of the companions had barks on Rishi and Yavin 4 (all the romanceable ones?), and one or two of the Rishi side stories included companions, too (I am thinking about Talos participating in the Sith Inquisitor's story). If they were able to do that again, just small side quests, it might make people happy.

 

Or they could have each LI have a 30-second "good luck, honey," kiss with the player's toon before missions. They have enough voiceover files of the LIs saying "I love you" and "don't get hurt" and those sorts of things that they wouldn't need to have new recordings, and they already have kiss animations.

 

Or having a silent cut scene where the toon could give their LI a hug or kiss, the way they did in Dragon Age: Origins.

 

In the short-term I think that finding a way to give players a choice of mission companion (even as the secondary) and sending emails would go a long way even without anything else. It was pretty disappointing after 5.10 that they found the time to have seemingly every companion and their brother send an email but there was no LI interaction there.

 

I think all your suggestions would be great. Even just small extra cut scenes here there that show that LI's we care about are still there and are a part of our journey with us.

 

Yes, on Yavin they at least gave the romancable companions landscape comments (or if your class had 2 to choose from they gave it to the first companion you received story-wise.) I really liked those, but I guess it was a sign that they were phasing that out when they only chose to do it with some companions and not all. :( I sometimes take my trooper to Yavin to do dailies and I still enjoy hearing Elara comment about the giant Emperor statue and how it makes her feel scared. I have held back on playing my trooper through the new content because I don't want to lose stuff like that. I know this probably seems small to some people but for me it has really added to my immersion and I enjoy it.

 

We have so many companions now...rather than abandoning them little by little why couldn't they just work in a system where there is a empty "companion slot" in your cut scenes, that the player can choose to fill in with whoever? That way it doesn't matter how many companions the game introduces, there will always be a way to bring each one into the story, even if it is just a tiny, even silent, role.

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IOr they could have each LI have a 30-second "good luck, honey," kiss with the player's toon before missions. They have enough voiceover files of the LIs saying "I love you" and "don't get hurt" and those sorts of things that they wouldn't need to have new recordings, and they already have kiss animations.

 

Or having a silent cut scene where the toon could give their LI a hug or kiss, the way they did in Dragon Age: Origins.

 

In the short-term I think that finding a way to give players a choice of mission companion (even as the secondary) and sending emails would go a long way even without anything else. It was pretty disappointing after 5.10 that they found the time to have seemingly every companion and their brother send an email but there was no LI interaction there.

I fully agree with this

I would already be very happy with just that : "goodbye scene" with my character's LI, plus some non voiced but animated scenes (like a scene where your character is alone with their LI and someone comes in to talk to you about the next thing to do*), and mails, all that would already really improve things a lot for me, while not necessarily be expensive to do.

 

*This could actually have been used at the begining of JUS : you're watching the waterfalls under the sunset with your LI when Lana comes to talk to you about the faction choice, or just starts talking about that if she's your LI, and you'd have the choice right there to include or not your LI in this decision (if your LI's not Lana of course)

And if you side with the Republic and your LI is either Aric or Theron they could've had 1 line about getting you in touch with Jonas, and that would've been Lana for other characters.

Dunno if everyone would've liked it better, but i would've prefered it to play like this than what we actually got in that particular scene.

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I think all your suggestions would be great. Even just small extra cut scenes here there that show that LI's we care about are still there and are a part of our journey with us.

 

Yes, on Yavin they at least gave the romancable companions landscape comments (or if your class had 2 to choose from they gave it to the first companion you received story-wise.) I really liked those, but I guess it was a sign that they were phasing that out when they only chose to do it with some companions and not all. :( I sometimes take my trooper to Yavin to do dailies and I still enjoy hearing Elara comment about the giant Emperor statue and how it makes her feel scared. I have held back on playing my trooper through the new content because I don't want to lose stuff like that. I know this probably seems small to some people but for me it has really added to my immersion and I enjoy it.

 

We have so many companions now...rather than abandoning them little by little why couldn't they just work in a system where there is a empty "companion slot" in your cut scenes, that the player can choose to fill in with whoever? That way it doesn't matter how many companions the game introduces, there will always be a way to bring each one into the story, even if it is just a tiny, even silent, role.

 

I'm currently holding my main and my other favorite toons back from 5.10 because I don't want them messed up with their companions either, so I do understand.

 

Little things count, and you're right, there are many things they could do that wouldn't be very cost-intensive. It's just a matter of getting them on board. Something like the emails, in particular. Having the LIs and your old class companions send a couple of emails every month would require nothing more than perhaps a few hours to write and send.

 

Since we know they have the programming capability to add another companion/NPC to the player's mission, whether that's the god droid or Lana/Theron in the flashpoints, I don't know why they won't use it more. Having one open slot would be perfect.

 

Even if they don't have the capability to accommodate cut scene dialogue and barks for the 40+ companions we now have, something like giving people a choice of, say four companions would probably make people happier and make them feel more control over what is happening. Doing color commentary and perhaps a line or two in cut scenes is far more feasible for four possible companions.

 

If the player wants someone other than the four, they can still come along, they're just silent. They have this in the class stories - you can bring, say, Shae or Hexid along for your class missions and they'll just stand there, but you still see them in the cut scene.

 

From a story standpoint IMHO it makes far more sense for our toons to have an escort they know and trust than to blithely walk around unfamiliar planets with a complete stranger, too.

Edited by IoNonSoEVero
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The planets you visit are all placed on a timeline, so when you return to an "old" planet, you are basically going "back in time." By that logic, it makes sense to me that companions you hadn't yet met would have nothing to say there if you went back and brought them. It also makes sense that they wouldn't be able to comment on "new" events that had happened since you were last there.

 

What I'm talking about is how when you get your companion "returned" after the events of KOTFE, you are getting back -- game mechanics-wise -- a different companion. Right now, I am still using my "old" Scourge and my "old" Corso, for example. I went back and ran an old bonus series with Scourge and he still gained affection from conversations there; I can go back and run around Tatooine and my Corso will still make triggered landscape comments. The "new" Corso, returned through alliance alert, will not do this, and when Scourge is returned, neither will he.

 

I would like to see all companions be able to comment on the landscape again. If it is not possible to add this feature to the "new" companions, then I would like the ability to retain my old version and continue to use them in game content, including story content. I have the feeling that this is not currently possible.

I think we're actually agreeing on this point. As I said, there are reasons you could use to justify *changing* a returned companion's opinions, but the cost of doing so (especially for audio comments from Basic-speaking companions(0)) would be excessive, so it would be good to simply enable the old version's comments / opinions on the new version(1).

 

I'm guessing that the development cost of doing that wouldn't be hugely huge, but that's just naked speculation. It occurs to me that the problem might be that the triggers are part of the landscape rather than part of the companion, meaning that, for example, there's a doodad attached to the map in Sobrik that triggers "old" Elara to make her comment on the place, and that doodad won't touch "new" Elara just as it doesn't touch any version of Yuun or (probably) Tanno Vik. It all depends on whether the trigger says, "Trigger Companion Geography Comment 427," in which case it's easy to put the right lines into slot 427 on the new versions (and presumably Yuun doesn't even have anything in slot 427); or says, "Trigger Elara Dorne Geography Comment 427," in which case they'd need to add a new trigger to the old map to trigger the old comment in "new" Elara.

 

EDIT

Sorry, left out a piece here. The thing of having to add a new trigger to the old map is a problem because by all accounts, the old (pre-2.0) parts of the game are an unholy mess that mostly works, and it is hard to "safely" modify it. That's what makes such modifications (adding trigger doodads for new companions) costly.

END-EDIT

 

Sorry for the digression. I'm a programmer by trade, and thinking about how things might be programmed is therefore an occupational hazard.

 

(0) Companions who speak in Alien Turkey Gobble IV, Alien Walking Carpet Howl VIII or Beepydroid VI are less of a problem in this respect. Just write some new subtitle lines and choose an existing soundbite. (How many different subtitles appear when someone says "Omi Topi", and what exactly does "Myzenbama" mean in Dashade?)

 

(1) It's fairly clear that the two companions ("old" - pre-KotFE - Vette and "new" - post-return - Vette, for example) are, in fact, two different companions, with mechanisms to link the new version to the old version (e.g. for Influence and stronghold decoration statues). The new versions don't stand in your ship, whereas the old versions (including ones recovered by the Odessen terminal) *do*.

Edited by SteveTheCynic
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I think we're actually agreeing on this point. As I said, there are reasons you could use to justify *changing* a returned companion's opinions, but the cost of doing so (especially for audio comments from Basic-speaking companions(0)) would be excessive, so it would be good to simply enable the old version's comments / opinions on the new version(1).

 

I'm guessing that the development cost of doing that wouldn't be hugely huge, but that's just naked speculation. It occurs to me that the problem might be that the triggers are part of the landscape rather than part of the companion, meaning that, for example, there's a doodad attached to the map in Sobrik that triggers "old" Elara to make her comment on the place, and that doodad won't touch "new" Elara just as it doesn't touch any version of Yuun or (probably) Tanno Vik. It all depends on whether the trigger says, "Trigger Companion Geography Comment 427," in which case it's easy to put the right lines into slot 427 on the new versions (and presumably Yuun doesn't even have anything in slot 427); or says, "Trigger Elara Dorne Geography Comment 427," in which case they'd need to add a new trigger to the old map to trigger the old comment in "new" Elara.

 

I really wish I could get an insider view as to what exactly caused the devs to make this change from "old" versions of companions to "new" ones. I suspect it had something to do with making companions available to all classes, because otherwise, why not just return the original version and be done with it?

 

So then I start wondering what it would take to meld these two versions back together again. I would love to hear a layperson's explanation of what is keeping them from doing that...why the new versions have "broken" mechanics, etc. Is there something in the code that is prohibiting that? Or do they not have the time/prioritization to make it work so it was simply left out? I wonder how easy it would be to add the landscape triggers, for example, to the new companions, or to make facial customizations work consistently again, etc. From my point of view some of these things look like bugs that no one has bothered to even acknowledge, but maybe some are deliberate decisions, I don't know.

 

If I had to choose one main thing to ask for though, it would be getting my companions back into my cut scenes again so that I could bring them along whenever I wanted.

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I really wish I could get an insider view as to what exactly caused the devs to make this change from "old" versions of companions to "new" ones. I suspect it had something to do with making companions available to all classes, because otherwise, why not just return the original version and be done with it?

 

So then I start wondering what it would take to meld these two versions back together again. I would love to hear a layperson's explanation of what is keeping them from doing that...why the new versions have "broken" mechanics, etc. Is there something in the code that is prohibiting that? Or do they not have the time/prioritization to make it work so it was simply left out? I wonder how easy it would be to add the landscape triggers, for example, to the new companions, or to make facial customizations work consistently again, etc. From my point of view some of these things look like bugs that no one has bothered to even acknowledge, but maybe some are deliberate decisions, I don't know.

 

If I had to choose one main thing to ask for though, it would be getting my companions back into my cut scenes again so that I could bring them along whenever I wanted.

 

I do think it's perhaps the mechanics of allowing the companions for all classes and on all planets. The Imperial-side class story companions can accompany a Republic player to Tython or Coruscant now, for instance, and that might have required coding that the originals didn't have. And messing with the programming for the originals to put them in KOTFE might have caused issues with them in the class stories, since it often seems like adjusting the coding for one item completely screws up another in this game.

 

I think that's why we've also seen name changes for some companions (Rusk getting a Provost title, Pierce getting promoted to Major, etc.): instead of updating the old companions' code, they just built a new version of the old companion and didn't bother programming in all the old battle barks, etc.The fact that we saw duplicates that were slightly different when there was that error with 5.10 makes me believe that even more; we were seeing the originals and the new clones co-existing.

 

I think the only way to repair them without screwing up things in either KOTFE or the class stories would be to make a third version of the companion and somehow replace the old ones, and unfortunately for small things like facial movements I don't know if they'd bother at this juncture.

 

IMHO I think that aiming for a choice of companion, even if they tag along as a secondary "god droid" type, is probably much safer to shoot for because it seems like it's been easy for them to slot various companions (Lana, Theron, the god droid, T7-O1, etc) into that role without much trouble.

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Hopefully people who may still want to comment on this thread will be able to find it now that it has been moved out of General Discussion. I guess putting "suggest" in the title made it inevitable that it would end up in the Suggestion Box!

 

I do think it's perhaps the mechanics of allowing the companions for all classes and on all planets. The Imperial-side class story companions can accompany a Republic player to Tython or Coruscant now, for instance, and that might have required coding that the originals didn't have. And messing with the programming for the originals to put them in KOTFE might have caused issues with them in the class stories, since it often seems like adjusting the coding for one item completely screws up another in this game.

 

I think that's why we've also seen name changes for some companions (Rusk getting a Provost title, Pierce getting promoted to Major, etc.): instead of updating the old companions' code, they just built a new version of the old companion and didn't bother programming in all the old battle barks, etc.The fact that we saw duplicates that were slightly different when there was that error with 5.10 makes me believe that even more; we were seeing the originals and the new clones co-existing.

 

I think the only way to repair them without screwing up things in either KOTFE or the class stories would be to make a third version of the companion and somehow replace the old ones, and unfortunately for small things like facial movements I don't know if they'd bother at this juncture.

 

IMHO I think that aiming for a choice of companion, even if they tag along as a secondary "god droid" type, is probably much safer to shoot for because it seems like it's been easy for them to slot various companions (Lana, Theron, the god droid, T7-O1, etc) into that role without much trouble.

 

I suspect that making companions usable by all classes, and as you pointed out, all planets as well, probably was a massive undertaking. I would have loved to have gotten some kind of acknowledgement though that the new version was missing things, even if it was a "yes we're aware and we don't plan to fix it." :( Then I could stop hoping I guess.

 

Whenever they give you two companions to follow you, one is "active" and one is "passive," so it's not a perfect situation, but I'd take that if it meant I could take along whoever I wanted to a cut scene/quest area. I'm guessing that BW would still choose their preferred companion to be the active one. But we know the mechanics exist, so that's a plus, and we know plugging in whatever companion you bring to a cut scene so they appear behind you exists...so BW can make it happen. Now just add some kind of acknowledgement that your companion of choice is with you (influence gain, approval message, NPC saying, "the two of you" or whatever) and they're done.

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